In my experience and the best that I can express it, Samadhi
(shikantaza/clear mind/Buddha Mind) WITHOUT awareness appears BEFORE kensho.
Kensho (the way I use the word) is the AWARENESS of Buddha Mind.  AFTER
kensho samadhi/shikantaza/clear mind/Buddha Mind continues, but continues
WITH awareness.

An analogy (maybe a poor one) is learning to ride a bicycle.
- first you learn the basics by riding with training wheels.  All the while
you are riding you are very aware of your dependency on the training wheels.
This is beginning zazen.
- after some time someone removes the training wheels, but YOU AREN'T AWARE
they're gone.  You ride along okay not really thinking anything about the
training wheels.  This is like samadhi/shikantaza/clear mind/Buddha Mind
BEFORE kensho.
- then all of a sudden you BECOME AWARE that you are riding WITHOUT any
training wheels!  This is kensho.
- after kensho you get on your bike and ride all over the neighborhood, just
going wherever you want, and the thought of training wheels does not even
enter you mind.  This is samadhi/shikantaza/clear mind/Buddha Mind AFTER

So the only difference in the samadhi/shikantaza/clear mind/Buddha Mind
BEFORE and AFTER kensho is the awareness of training wheels.

That's the best I can come up with right now...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 8:33 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices


My reading and yours is that samadhi precedes kenso/satori. I would like to
see how JMJM justifies his statement that kensho/satori precedes samadhi.
I am under the impression that Bill asserts that samadhi is no other than
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
> I think JM means kensho is prior to samadhi, which is way before satori.
JM's position is unique.
> Anthony

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5648 (20101125) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5650 (20101126) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.



Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

Reply via email to