ED, As I said, awareness of 'I am' has to be dropped before self-Realisation, but is a good place to begin because it is something we can all experience quite concretely. You're quite right tho - we can't say what we are in the positive (I am 'this' or 'that'), but instead we have to work by negation (I am not this/that).
Mike ________________________________ From: ED <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 3 March, 2011 1:14:08 Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization Hi Mike, I was under the impression that the objective of practice was to get to the state of: 'I' am not.' No? --ED --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Hi JM, > > Thanks for the question. Meditation is the best practice that I know of, but > is > > not essential. Even being 'mindful' is not 'it' as it has it's duality in > forgetfullness. If there is a way, then it has to be simple and everywhen (a >nod > > to Steve). What do we know outside of concepts, thoughts, visualisations, >tools, > > witnessing etc.? We are always beyond doubt existentially aware of 'I am' (a > further nod to Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharal), so this is a good > place to start. But ultimately, even awareness of 'I am' is a product of the > mind and so we need to go further beyond that to Pure Awareness ; ) where we >all > > share the same (Buddha) Nature and nothing really needs to be done. > > Mike > Hi Mike, > > According to your witness, is there a practice/way/how to "realize"? > > Thanks, > JM > >ED, > > > >Maybe, maybe not. It still stands tho that meditation is not essential > >for enlightenment as it leads us away from Realisation. Therein lies the >paradox > > >- for most of us meditation was the way to Realisation. > > > >Mike > >I believe that there are relatively few cases of individuals who have > >claimed >to > > >have become spontaneously enlightened or were born enlightened. > >--ED > >> Steve, > >> > >> ... I empathise with the Dzogchen claim that meditation is not essential > >> for enlightenment but is useful for developing mindfullness, moral > >>development, > >> > >> concentration etc. Only after Realisation is meditation essential for >deepening > > >> > >> the initial breakthrough. > >> > >> Mike
