Re: [Zen] Realization

Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:38:50 -0800 

Mayka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote:
>
> Mike:
>  
> There is nothing of the kind of: "Trying to be mindful",  as implying "I'll 
> be mindful in the future.  Unless one has been such a fool (as often happens 
> to me) and regreting that one thinks to oneselve " This happens to me for not 
> having being mindful, I'll try to be more mindful in the future".  This 
> future is not a far away future it implies when the same situation will arise 
> again.
>  
>  
> There may also happens that one gets lazy about being mindful and leave for 
> another day.   That kind of lazy attitude will be as much as to say: 
> "I'll be sitting down zazen tomorrow" or  even better example: "Tomorrow 
> I'll be living in the present moment but today let me alone!.  
>  
> Mindfulness always happens in the present moment.  It goes in togetherness 
> with the present moment, it's in harmony with it.  But if it wouldn't be 
> that could be called real mindfulness.  How it could when mindfulness it's 
> full attention to everything that is going on within and around.  
>  
> Real Mindfulness  helps one to live with full attention and awareness of the 
> present moment.  It's mindfulness that makes us become the present moment 
> itself.  It's not the label of mindfulness that works out here but 
> mindfulness without the label.  One has to realice it's insight by 
> practicing, having the direct experience of it.  There are no words that can 
> give a description of this energy with and endless grow if diligence practice 
> is applied.  And what one has through it is a growing unlimited within 
> space. (Experienced this during long retreat and it was beyond description)
>  
>  Yes, there may be a moment in which one doesn't need to practice 
> mindfulness but that only will be because mindfulness becomes one second 
> skin living way in daily life. 
>  
> Mayka
>  
>  
>  
>  
> --- On Thu, 3/3/11, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Thursday, 3 March, 2011, 9:37
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mayka,
>  
> Let me see if I can find you again (I owe a debt here to Ken Wilber's talk on 
> Dzogchen)! Mindfulness is one side of a duality because the other side is 
> forgetfulness. Therefore you can practice mindfulness as a technique (as you 
> can meditation). For  example, by trying to be 'mindful' you pay attention 
> to the present moment. Trying to "be here now" necessarily implies some 
> future moment when you will then be mindful. 
>  
> Instead, let's take a look at awareness. You can't practice awareness because 
> there is only awareness (of 'I am'), whether you're in shikentaza or glued to 
> the tv. Pure awareness is the present state of awareness before you try to 
> do anything about it - it's this moment before you try anything. "You are 
> already aware; you are already enlightened. You might not always be mindful, 
> but you are always alread enlightened.". 
>  
> Mike
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thu, 3 March, 2011 5:21:21
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike:
>  
> Are we talking about the same thing?.  You lost me now.
>  
> Mayka
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 2/3/11, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, 2 March, 2011, 17:27
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Mayka,
>  
> Not at all! But that also answers your question about it being one side of a 
> duality (mindful/not mindful). However, even if you forget to be mindful 
> (!) - you're always aware of 'I am'...
>  
> Mike
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thu, 3 March, 2011 1:38:50
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike:
> No but I wish.  Are you? 
> Mayka
>  
>  
> --- On Wed, 2/3/11, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, 2 March, 2011, 15:37
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Mayka,
>  
> Are you mindful 24/7? 
>  
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thu, 3 March, 2011 0:20:44
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike:  Even being 'mindful' is not 'it' as it has it's duality in 
> forgetfullness
> Mayka:  I can't see the duality of being mindful.  When there is pure 
> mindfulness there is automatically "just this".  Mindfulness is full 
> attention and awareness in the present moment.
>  
>  
>  
> --- On Wed, 2/3/11, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Realization
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, 2 March, 2011, 11:18
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi JM,
>  
> Thanks for the question. Meditation is the best practice that I know of, but 
> is not essential. Even being 'mindful' is not 'it' as it has it's duality in 
> forgetfullness. If there is a way, then it has to be simple and everywhen (a 
> nod to Steve). What do we know outside of concepts, thoughts, visualisations, 
> tools, witnessing etc.? We are always beyond doubt existentially aware of 'I 
> am' (a further nod to Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharal),  so this 
> is a good place to start. But ultimately, even awareness of 'I am' is a 
> product of the mind and so we need to go further beyond that to Pure 
> Awareness ; ) where we all share the same (Buddha) Nature and nothing really 
> needs to be done.
>  
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wed, 2 March, 2011 0:38:16
> Subject: [Zen] Realization
> 
>   
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> According to your witness, is there a practice/way/how to "realize"?
> 
> Thanks,
> JM
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> http://www.heartchan.org
> 
> On 3/1/2011 2:16 AM, mike brown wrote: 
>   
> 
> 
> ED,
>  
> Maybe, maybe not. It still stands tho that meditation is not essential 
> for enlightenment as it leads us away from Realisation. Therein lies the 
> paradox - for most of us meditation was the way to Realisation.
>  
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: ED <seacrofter001@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tue, 1 March, 2011 18:20:57
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Change
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
>  
> I believe that there are relatively few cases of individuals who have 
> claimed to have become spontaneously enlightened or were born enlightened.
> --ED
>  
> --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > 
> > ... I empathise with the Dzogchen claim that meditation is not essential 
> > for enlightenmentm but is useful for developing mindfullness, moral 
> > development, 
> > concentration etc. Only after Realisation is meditation essential for 
> > deepening 
> > the initial breakthrough.
> > 
> > Mike
>




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