Mike,
I believe the story in the Bible of the 'Garden of Eden' is a
mythologized description of what mankind's life was like before he
became too dependent upon and attached to his rational mind (dualism
- Knowledge of Good and Evil). Before that he lived at one with God -
in the Garden of Eden.
...Bill!
--- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...>
<mailto:uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> Merle,
>
> It's a nice sentiment to try to do that, isn't it? I guess the
problem is is that we collect too much dust in our eyes as we acquire
more of what the world teaches us. I do have a vague memory/feeling
tho, of playing in my parent's garden and it being what the Garden
of Eden must be like. I would've been less surprised to come across
the Cheshire Cat than I would if I'd come across the tabby next door.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> <mailto:merlewiitpom@...>To:
"[email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>"
<[email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 8:56
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Â look at life through the eyes of a young child... fresh, always
alert and forever curious..merle
>
>
> Â
> Chris,
>
> >So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more
chance
> to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the initial
> experience you wrote about was really basically ordinary, but so
far our of your thinking that you were surprised at its nature? Â Or
do you find it leaves you feeling there is some progression to your
practice and
> liberation, and your ordinary experience before that seeing is not
like
> your ordinary experience now? <
>
> Thanks for reading and asking questions. All I can say about it is
that the objects we normally take for granted were seen as they
really are because the web of concepts we usually overlay them with
was removed. They just were. It struck me at the time (during the
episode) that seeing this way was the most natural and real way of
seeing, except not seeing with the eyes, and that it was all so
obvious. It was more like the objects were and I wasn't (Which is why
Dogen's '10,000 things' resonates). I have to say that my ordinary
experience is not like it was before, but neither is it like it was
during the experience, which is why I do feel there is some
progression to my practice and liberation. It's not for the purpose
of recapturing a past experience (like a drug high), but to get to
the bottom of what it's all about. In a way, I've answered 'yes' to
both your questions, but contradictions seem okay now, too.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> <mailto:chris@...>
> To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 4:15
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>
>
> Â
> This thread has been very interesting, but I have a question for
Mike. Â I am honored that you shared your experience with us, and I
hope I can address a question without antagonizing you - it's a real
question I have, and I am perfectly willing to hear any honest answer. Â
>
> As far as I can tell, every time one slows down the rush of
thinking a bit, out pops such a lovely universe as these dramatic
experiences seem to highlight. Â But, other than the strong emotions,
I don't read anything in these mystical experiences that isn't there
each moment, in the quiet still space that attending lets us notice.
   After each exhalation, perfect stillness, balanced on the
burning tip of creation. Â Something like that. Â
>
> I've not had an enlightenment experience as a part of zen
training*, but they don't read as different from my frequent
realizing I'm lost in day dreams and returning to attentive zazen -
tho that realization is rather dull, it has the full sense of okness
and the noticeable lack of distinct boundaries. Â When I stop
crinkling up my mind, and attend to what Bill! calls raw sensory
input, living is awfully pretty and crystalline and wonderful; even
in the middle of an argument with my wife or kids, here we are; how
can I not smile a bit (unless it would upset the companions)? Â I
have a fairly pleasant and orderly life, to be sure, but even
crashing on my bike is interesting. Â That slight shift in
perspective happens many times a day, but each time I let go (of *my*
thoughts, *my* preferences, *my* expectations), my ass unclenches and
I find that the moment is indeed complete and sufficient. Â
>
> So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more
chance to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the
initial experience you wrote about was really basically ordinary, but
so far our of your thinking that you were surprised at its nature?
 Or do you find it leaves you feeling there is some progression to
your practice and liberation, and your ordinary experience before
that seeing is not like your ordinary experience now?Â
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Chris
> chris@...
> +1-301-270-6524
>
> *I had a couple of "it's ok, all is one" experiences as a child,
and occasionally as a parent (being a parent seems to for me to bring
out all sorts of states of love and wonder, due I guess to the
physical exhaustion, total dedication, and lack of personal
wilfulness), that seem sort of like what people describe, tho of
course it had nothing to do with zen training as I only started that
a few years ago. Â
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Joe <desert_woodworker@...>
<mailto:desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> >
> >Hugh bet that zen teachers use the word "samadhi'. Â Not many talk
> >about it. Â Except in dokusan. Â It's not a secret, but maybe since
> >about half the folks on sesshin are pretty new, teachers do not make
> >a big deal about it in public, while the old-timers of course are
> >just bathed in it, to their eyebrows. Â Or we can hope, so.
> >
> >--Joe
> >
> >
> >"ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> Samadhi has numerous meanings. Â What do you mean by 'samadhi'?
 Joe,
> >> what do you mean by 'samadhi' ? Â Â Do Zen masters ever use the
term
> >> 'samadhi'?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read
or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
