Give the teacher an apple!
KG
On 8/3/2012 9:01 PM, Bill! wrote:
Mike,
I believe the story in the Bible of the 'Garden of Eden' is a
mythologized description of what mankind's life was like before he
became too dependent upon and attached to his rational mind (dualism -
Knowledge of Good and Evil). Before that he lived at one with God - in
the Garden of Eden.
...Bill!
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> Merle,
>
> It's a nice sentiment to try to do that, isn't it? I guess the
problem is is that we collect too much dust in our eyes as we acquire
more of what the world teaches us. I do have a vague memory/feeling
tho, of playing in my parent's garden and it being what the Garden
of Eden must be like. I would've been less surprised to come across
the Cheshire Cat than I would if I'd come across the tabby next door.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>To: "[email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>" <[email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 8:56
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Â look at life through the eyes of a young child... fresh, always
alert and forever curious..merle
>
>
> Â
> Chris,
>
> >So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more chance
> to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the initial
> experience you wrote about was really basically ordinary, but so far
our of your thinking that you were surprised at its nature? Â Or do
you find it leaves you feeling there is some progression to your
practice and
> liberation, and your ordinary experience before that seeing is not like
> your ordinary experience now? <
>
> Thanks for reading and asking questions. All I can say about it is
that the objects we normally take for granted were seen as they really
are because the web of concepts we usually overlay them with was
removed. They just were. It struck me at the time (during the episode)
that seeing this way was the most natural and real way of seeing,
except not seeing with the eyes, and that it was all so obvious. It
was more like the objects were and I wasn't (Which is why Dogen's
'10,000 things' resonates). I have to say that my ordinary experience
is not like it was before, but neither is it like it was during the
experience, which is why I do feel there is some progression to my
practice and liberation. It's not for the purpose of recapturing a
past experience (like a drug high), but to get to the bottom of what
it's all about. In a way, I've answered 'yes' to both your questions,
but contradictions seem okay now, too.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...>
> To: [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 4:15
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>
>
> Â
> This thread has been very interesting, but I have a question for
Mike. Â I am honored that you shared your experience with us, and I
hope I can address a question without antagonizing you - it's a real
question I have, and I am perfectly willing to hear any honest answer. Â
>
> As far as I can tell, every time one slows down the rush of thinking
a bit, out pops such a lovely universe as these dramatic experiences
seem to highlight. Â But, other than the strong emotions, I don't read
anything in these mystical experiences that isn't there each moment,
in the quiet still space that attending lets us notice. Â Â Â After
each exhalation, perfect stillness, balanced on the burning tip of
creation. Â Something like that. Â
>
> I've not had an enlightenment experience as a part of zen training*,
but they don't read as different from my frequent realizing I'm lost
in day dreams and returning to attentive zazen - tho that realization
is rather dull, it has the full sense of okness and the noticeable
lack of distinct boundaries. Â When I stop crinkling up my mind, and
attend to what Bill! calls raw sensory input, living is awfully pretty
and crystalline and wonderful; even in the middle of an argument with
my wife or kids, here we are; how can I not smile a bit (unless it
would upset the companions)? Â I have a fairly pleasant and orderly
life, to be sure, but even crashing on my bike is interesting. Â That
slight shift in perspective happens many times a day, but each time I
let go (of *my* thoughts, *my* preferences, *my* expectations), my ass
unclenches and I find that the moment is indeed complete and
sufficient. Â
>
> So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more
chance to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the
initial experience you wrote about was really basically ordinary, but
so far our of your thinking that you were surprised at its nature?
 Or do you find it leaves you feeling there is some progression to
your practice and liberation, and your ordinary experience before that
seeing is not like your ordinary experience now?Â
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Chris
> chris@...
> +1-301-270-6524
>
> *I had a couple of "it's ok, all is one" experiences as a child, and
occasionally as a parent (being a parent seems to for me to bring out
all sorts of states of love and wonder, due I guess to the physical
exhaustion, total dedication, and lack of personal wilfulness), that
seem sort of like what people describe, tho of course it had nothing
to do with zen training as I only started that a few years ago. Â
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Joe <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> >
> >Hugh bet that zen teachers use the word "samadhi'. Â Not many talk
> >about it. Â Except in dokusan. Â It's not a secret, but maybe since
> >about half the folks on sesshin are pretty new, teachers do not make
> >a big deal about it in public, while the old-timers of course are
> >just bathed in it, to their eyebrows. Â Or we can hope, so.
> >
> >--Joe
> >
> >
> >"ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> Samadhi has numerous meanings. Â What do you mean by 'samadhi'?
 Joe,
> >> what do you mean by 'samadhi' ? Â Â Do Zen masters ever use the term
> >> 'samadhi'?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read
or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
