i tried to create the garden of eden..it became paradise lost by
default...merle
Give the teacher an apple!
KG
On 8/3/2012 9:01 PM, Bill! wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I believe the story in the Bible of the 'Garden of Eden'
is a mythologized description of what mankind's life was
like before he became too dependent upon and attached to
his rational mind (dualism - Knowledge of Good and Evil).
Before that he lived at one with God - in the Garden of
Eden.
>
>...Bill!
>
>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>>
>> Merle,
>>
>> It's a nice sentiment to try to do that, isn't it? I
guess the problem is is that we collect too much dust in
our eyes as we acquire more of what the world teaches us.
I do have a vague memory/feeling tho, of playing in my
parent's garden and it being what the Garden of Eden must
be like. I would've been less surprised to come across the
Cheshire Cat than I would if I'd come across the tabby
next door.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>To: "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]>
>>
>> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 8:56
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>>
>> Â look at life through the eyes of a young child...
fresh, always alert and forever curious..merle
>>
>>
>> Â
>> Chris,
>>
>> >So I guess my question is that having now had a
great deal more chance
>> to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find
that the initial
>> experience you wrote about was really basically
ordinary, but so far our of your thinking that you were
surprised at its nature? Â Or do you find it leaves you
feeling there is some progression to your practice and
>> liberation, and your ordinary experience before that
seeing is not like
>> your ordinary experience now? <
>>
>> Thanks for reading and asking questions. All I can
say about it is that the objects we normally take for
granted were seen as they really are because the web of
concepts we usually overlay them with was removed. They
just were. It struck me at the time (during the episode)
that seeing this way was the most natural and real way of
seeing, except not seeing with the eyes, and that it was
all so obvious. It was more like the objects were and I
wasn't (Which is why Dogen's '10,000 things' resonates). I
have to say that my ordinary experience is not like it was
before, but neither is it like it was during the
experience, which is why I do feel there is some
progression to my practice and liberation. It's not for
the purpose of recapturing a past experience (like a drug
high), but to get to the bottom of what it's all about. In
a way, I've answered 'yes' to both your questions, but
contradictions seem okay now, too.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 4:15
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen
>>
>>
>> Â
>> This thread has been very interesting, but I have a
question for Mike. Â I am honored that you shared your
experience with us, and I hope I can address a question
without antagonizing you - it's a real question I have,
and I am perfectly willing to hear any honest answer. Â
>>
>> As far as I can tell, every time one slows down the
rush of thinking a bit, out pops such a lovely universe as
these dramatic experiences seem to highlight. Â But, other
than the strong emotions, I don't read anything in these
mystical experiences that isn't there each moment, in the
quiet still space that attending lets us notice.
   After each exhalation, perfect stillness, balanced
on the burning tip of creation. Â Something like that. Â
>>
>> I've not had an enlightenment experience as a part of
zen training*, but they don't read as different from my
frequent realizing I'm lost in day dreams and returning to
attentive zazen - tho that realization is rather dull, it
has the full sense of okness and the noticeable lack of
distinct boundaries. Â When I stop crinkling up my mind,
and attend to what Bill! calls raw sensory input, living
is awfully pretty and crystalline and wonderful; even in
the middle of an argument with my wife or kids, here we
are; how can I not smile a bit (unless it would upset the
companions)? Â I have a fairly pleasant and orderly life,
to be sure, but even crashing on my bike is interesting.
 That slight shift in perspective happens many times a
day, but each time I let go (of *my* thoughts, *my*
preferences, *my* expectations), my ass unclenches and I
find that the moment is indeed complete and sufficient. Â
>>
>> So I guess my question is that having now had a great
deal more chance to see from the non-dual perspective, do
you find that the initial experience you wrote about was
really basically ordinary, but so far our of your thinking
that you were surprised at its nature? Â Or do you find it
leaves you feeling there is some progression to your
practice and liberation, and your ordinary experience
before that seeing is not like your ordinary experience
now?Â
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Chris
>> chris@...
>> +1-301-270-6524
>>
>> *I had a couple of "it's ok, all is one" experiences
as a child, and occasionally as a parent (being a parent
seems to for me to bring out all sorts of states of love
and wonder, due I guess to the physical exhaustion, total
dedication, and lack of personal wilfulness), that seem
sort of like what people describe, tho of course it had
nothing to do with zen training as I only started that a
few years ago. Â
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Joe <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>>
>> Ed,
>> >
>> >Hugh bet that zen teachers use the word
"samadhi'. Â Not many talk
>> >about it. Â Except in dokusan. Â It's not a
secret, but maybe since
>> >about half the folks on sesshin are pretty new,
teachers do not make
>> >a big deal about it in public, while the
old-timers of course are
>> >just bathed in it, to their eyebrows. Â Or we can
hope, so.
>> >
>> >--Joe
>> >
>> >
>> >"ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mike,
>> >>
>> >> Samadhi has numerous meanings. Â What do you
mean by 'samadhi'? Â Joe,
>> >> what do you mean by 'samadhi' ? Â Â Do Zen
masters ever use the term
>> >> 'samadhi'?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you
recently have read or are reading! Talk about it
today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
