At least as many interpretations as there are interpreters!
There is another interpretation that understands the more ancient
meanings of/associations with symbols of the 'cross', a 'death' upon it,
lying in a 'cave', a 'rebirth' or 'resurrection' and such - that is in
harmony/complimentary with Buddha's story/teachings on awakening.
Religious teachings are rarely written on one level/in one voice. More
often they are anagogic - intended to speak differently to different
people as they are able to hear. Practically/Rationally,
Metaphorically/Mystically, Revelatory/as living realization - this allow
all the voices to be heard as one.
If you have ever re-read something and seen a new meaning or something
profound in it you had not in the past, you have experienced how this
operates. This itself an insight into mind that sees it so, revealed to
be seeing it so. There is a lot of this in Zen writings (and much humor
too - appearing to operate on similarly different levels - some not
immediately obvious or funny to all), though many Zen expressions appear
so simple it is perhaps even easier to miss than when wrapped in complex
allegory. An amazing thing this sort of expression, written or spoken,
though for some that sort of harmonic voice is their only true voice.
Always more than meets the eye and ear.
When in doubt (and more so if you feel certain), have an 'all of the
above' openness without attaching to any particular interpretation. No
need to believe or disbelieve. Just look for yourself. Receiving and
remembering stories, recognizing them as stories, realizing all as
aspects of this experiencing...
KG
On 9/11/2012 12:56 PM, William Rintala wrote:
As I understand it Bill! there are at least 2 extremely different
interpretations of Christ and his cross. Catholacism saiys that
Christ suffered and died on the cros for our sins. Their image of
Christ has him nailed to the cross. I was raised as a Lutheran/
Protestant and they don't say that. What we were taught was that
Christ died and was buried. He rose from the dead 3 days later and
ascended into heaven as proof that all who believe in him will have
everlasting life. Their image is of an empty cross and their call at
Easter is "Christ has risen" to which the appropriate response is "He
has risen indeed".
Bill
Find what makes your heart sing…and do it!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Bill! <[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected]
*Sent:* Tue, September 11, 2012 5:14:51 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] He Who Is Without Sin...
Merle,
Play 'Drop the Biblical Quote and Then Run Away and Hide'.
My question to you was "According to Christianity what was the
'purpose' or 'achievement' of Jesus' life (and death)?"
I'll give you a hint. It has to do with 'sin'.
Tag! You're it! ...Bill!
--- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Â play what.?..i did not know it was a game...merle
>
>
> Â
> Merle,
>
> Was that an answer to my question, or just a 'I don't want to play
anymore'?
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >  hail mary!...merle
> > ÂÂ
> > Merle,
> >
> > Yes! A sinless human.
> >
> > I thought you knew something about the 'mental model' of
Christianity.
> > According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' or 'achievement'
of Jesus' life (and death)? That's the whole point of Christianity!
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  jesus bill then you are a bloody saint!...a sinless
human being..lordy be... what an achievement!..merle
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Merle,
> > >
> > > I never said I was the 'second Christ'. I said 'I was without
sin'. I was YOU that suggested I was the 'second coming'...
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ hang on bill... you said you were the
second christ..did i mis judge you?..merle
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂÂ
> > > > Merle,
> > > >
> > > > There is only ONE 'Christ' - like there is only ONE 'Buddha'
and only ONE 'Buddha Nature'.
> > > >
> > > > Just FYI...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected]
<mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ well said KG...is
romney thinking he is the second christ?... merle
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ÂÂÂ
> > > > > We all are "the second coming of Christ [not of Jesus - but
of "Christ"].ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Teaching point
to realization. We all have/are the potential to realize this - for
this to be realized - all have/are Buddha nature - to awaken to (call
it what you like). That's the point of the teachings. Otherwise why
come to teach the 'first' time? Applies to equally Jesus' or Buddha's
story.
> > > > >
> > > > > The whole 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' schtick.
> > > > >
> > > > > Surely you have always realized this?! *L*
> > > > >
> > > > > KG
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/10/2012 8:49 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ÂÂÂ
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ christ we have
found him..bill is the second coming!...merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ÂÂÂ
> > > > > >Merle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In one of your posts a long time ago and far,
> > > > > far away (that means I couldn't find it) you
> > > > > castigated me for stating that Christians and
> > > > > Muslims did bad things during the Crusades in
> > > > > the name of their religions. You used a quote
> > > > > of Jesus from the Bible and I think it was:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"Let him who is without sin among you be the
> > > > > first to throw a stone... - John 8:7 (English
> > > > > Standard Version)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have already stated in an early post (an
> > > > > even longer time ago and further away) that I
> > > > > considered myself pretty knowledgeable about
> > > > > Christianity and very knowledgeable about the
> > > > > teaching of Jesus. I didn't respond to this
> > > > > part of your post at that time because I
> > > > > didn't consider this quote really relevant to
> > > > > our discussion, but I would like to respond
> > > > > now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I am without sin so would be eligible to throw
> > > > > stones if and when the situation calls for
> > > > > that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
