KG, Difference is religious myth is usually MISunderstood AS reality, but a koan is understood as a means to break through TO reality...
Edgar On Sep 12, 2012, at 12:41 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > A myth is no more or less direct than a koan. > > Have you built Zen into your personal dispensary? ;) > > KG > > > On 9/12/2012 6:48 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: >> >> Bill, >> >> >> Actually the Christ myth, and that's what it is a myth, is something that >> evolved from earlier personifications of the seasons where life was seen to >> die in winter and be reborn in Spring, and by extension the hope that people >> too could also rise from the dead and enjoy new lives. There are quite a few >> other earlier myths such as that of Persephone or Osiris that are precursors >> to The Christ myth. >> >> Getting hung up in these like they are real and not mythical is a VERY BIG >> sidetrack off the path of Zen... >> >> Zen dispenses with all the myths which dance around various aspects of >> reality and goes right to the core of reality itself... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Bill! wrote: >> >>> >>> Bill, >>> >>> I fail to see much of a difference in these two focuses. My 'mental model' >>> of Christianity includes both. Christ, being the 'perfect' sacrifice, died >>> for our sins. He was the atonement the Heavenly Father required in order to >>> forgive humans of their sins. The rising from the dead does symbolize >>> everlasting life, but only after some the forgiveness of sins which might >>> require additional attonement. Lutherans believe that, don't they? >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > As I understand it Bill! there are at least 2 extremely different >>> > interpretations of Christ and his cross. Catholacism saiys that Christ >>> > suffered >>> > and died on the cros for our sins. Their image of Christ has him nailed >>> > to the >>> > cross. I was raised as a Lutheran/ Protestant and they don't say that. >>> > What we >>> > were taught was that Christ died and was buried. He rose from the dead >>> > 3 days >>> > later and ascended into heaven as proof that all who believe in him will >>> > have >>> > everlasting life. Their image is of an empty cross and their call at >>> > Easter is >>> > "Christ has risen" to which the appropriate response is "He has risen >>> > indeed". >>> >  Bill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Find what makes your heart sing…and do it! >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> >>> > To: [email protected] >>> > Sent: Tue, September 11, 2012 5:14:51 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] He Who Is Without Sin... >>> > >>> >  >>> > Merle, >>> > >>> > Play 'Drop the Biblical Quote and Then Run Away and Hide'. >>> > >>> > My question to you was "According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' >>> > or >>> > 'achievement' of Jesus' life (and death)?" >>> > >>> > I'll give you a hint. It has to do with 'sin'. >>> > >>> > Tag! You're it! ...Bill! >>> > >>> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >  play what.?..i did not know it was a game...merle >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >  >>> > > Merle, >>> > > >>> > > Was that an answer to my question, or just a 'I don't want to play >>> > > anymore'? >>> > > >>> > > ...Bill! >>> > > >>> > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >  hail mary!...merle >>> > > >  >>> > > > Merle, >>> > > > >>> > > > Yes! A sinless human. >>> > > > >>> > > > I thought you knew something about the 'mental model' of >>> > > > Christianity. >>> > > > According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' or 'achievement' of >>> > > > Jesus' >>> > >life (and death)? That's the whole point of Christianity! >>> > > > >>> > > > ...Bill! >>> > > > >>> > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ jesus bill then you are a bloody saint!...a >>> > > > > sinless human >>> > >being..lordy be... what an achievement!..merle >>> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > Merle, >>> > > > > >>> > > > > I never said I was the 'second Christ'. I said 'I was without sin'. >>> > > > > I was >>> > >YOU that suggested I was the 'second coming'... >>> > > > > >>> > > > > ...Bill! >>> > > > > >>> > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ hang on bill... you >>> > > > > > said you were the second >>> > >christ..did i mis judge you?..merle >>> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > Merle, >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > There is only ONE 'Christ' - like there is only ONE 'Buddha' and >>> > > > > > only ONE >>> > >'Buddha Nature'. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Just FYI...Bill! >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> >>> > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > > well said KG...is romney >>> > >thinking he is the second christ?... merle >>> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > We all are "the second coming of Christ [not of Jesus - but of >>> > >"Christ"].ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > >'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > Teaching point to >>> > >realization. We all have/are the potential to realize this - for this to >>> > >be >>> > >realized - all have/are Buddha nature - to awaken to (call it what you >>> > >like). >>> > >That's the point of the teachings. Otherwise why come to teach the >>> > >'first' time? >>> > >Applies to equally Jesus' or Buddha's story. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > The whole 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' schtick. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Surely you have always realized this?! *L* >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > KG >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > On 9/10/2012 8:49 AM, Merle Lester wrote: >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > > > > > > >'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > > > christ we have found >>> > >him..bill is the second coming!...merle >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'Æ>>> > > > > > > >'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >Merle, >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >In one of your posts a long time ago and far, >>> > > > > > > far away (that means I couldn't find it) you >>> > > > > > > castigated me for stating that Christians and >>> > > > > > > Muslims did bad things during the Crusades in >>> > > > > > > the name of their religions. You used a quote >>> > > > > > > of Jesus from the Bible and I think it was: >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >"Let him who is without sin among you be the >>> > > > > > > first to throw a stone... - John 8:7 (English >>> > > > > > > Standard Version) >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >I have already stated in an early post (an >>> > > > > > > even longer time ago and further away) that I >>> > > > > > > considered myself pretty knowledgeable about >>> > > > > > > Christianity and very knowledgeable about the >>> > > > > > > teaching of Jesus. I didn't respond to this >>> > > > > > > part of your post at that time because I >>> > > > > > > didn't consider this quote really relevant to >>> > > > > > > our discussion, but I would like to respond >>> > > > > > > now. >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >I am without sin so would be eligible to throw >>> > > > > > > stones if and when the situation calls for >>> > > > > > > that. >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >...Bill! >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >> > > >
