Bill, I fail to see much of a difference in these two focuses. My 'mental model' of Christianity includes both. Christ, being the 'perfect' sacrifice, died for our sins. He was the atonement the Heavenly Father required in order to forgive humans of their sins. The rising from the dead does symbolize everlasting life, but only after some the forgiveness of sins which might require additional attonement. Lutherans believe that, don't they?
...Bill! --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > As I understand it Bill! there are at least 2 extremely different > interpretations of Christ and his cross. Catholacism saiys that Christ > suffered > and died on the cros for our sins. Their image of Christ has him nailed to > the > cross. I was raised as a Lutheran/ Protestant and they don't say that. > What we > were taught was that Christ died and was buried. He rose from the dead 3 > days > later and ascended into heaven as proof that all who believe in him will > have > everlasting life. Their image is of an empty cross and their call at Easter > is > "Christ has risen" to which the appropriate response is "He has risen indeed". >  Bill > > > > > Find what makes your heart singâ¦and do it! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, September 11, 2012 5:14:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Zen] He Who Is Without Sin... > >  > Merle, > > Play 'Drop the Biblical Quote and Then Run Away and Hide'. > > My question to you was "According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' or > 'achievement' of Jesus' life (and death)?" > > I'll give you a hint. It has to do with 'sin'. > > Tag! You're it! ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àplay what.?..i did not know it was a game...merle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > Was that an answer to my question, or just a 'I don't want to play anymore'? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàhail mary!...merle > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > Yes! A sinless human. > > > > > > I thought you knew something about the 'mental model' of Christianity. > > > According to Christianity what was the 'purpose' or 'achievement' of > > > Jesus' > >life (and death)? That's the whole point of Christianity! > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàjesus bill then you are a bloody saint!...a > > > > sinless human > >being..lordy be... what an achievement!..merle > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > I never said I was the 'second Christ'. I said 'I was without sin'. I > > > > was > >YOU that suggested I was the 'second coming'... > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhang on bill... you said > > > > > you were the second > >christ..did i mis judge you?..merle > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > There is only ONE 'Christ' - like there is only ONE 'Buddha' and only > > > > > ONE > >'Buddha Nature'. > > > > > > > > > > Just FYI...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàwell > > > > > > said KG...is romney > >thinking he is the second christ?... merle > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > We all are "the second coming of Christ [not of Jesus - but of > >"Christ"].ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > Teaching point to > >realization. We all have/are the potential to realize this - for this to be > >realized - all have/are Buddha nature - to awaken to (call it what you > >like). > >That's the point of the teachings. Otherwise why come to teach the 'first' > >time? > >Applies to equally Jesus' or Buddha's story. > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' schtick. > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely you have always realized this?! *L* > > > > > > > > > > > > KG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/10/2012 8:49 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàchrist > > > > > > > we have found > >him..bill is the second coming!...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In one of your posts a long time ago and far, > > > > > > far away (that means I couldn't find it) you > > > > > > castigated me for stating that Christians and > > > > > > Muslims did bad things during the Crusades in > > > > > > the name of their religions. You used a quote > > > > > > of Jesus from the Bible and I think it was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Let him who is without sin among you be the > > > > > > first to throw a stone... - John 8:7 (English > > > > > > Standard Version) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I have already stated in an early post (an > > > > > > even longer time ago and further away) that I > > > > > > considered myself pretty knowledgeable about > > > > > > Christianity and very knowledgeable about the > > > > > > teaching of Jesus. I didn't respond to this > > > > > > part of your post at that time because I > > > > > > didn't consider this quote really relevant to > > > > > > our discussion, but I would like to respond > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am without sin so would be eligible to throw > > > > > > stones if and when the situation calls for > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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