Merle, Okay, I expected that. It's definitely the easiest way for you to respond. Before I do this however I do want to point out that I labeled everything in that post (IMO) so don't feel COMPELLED to present 'evidence', but will comply with your request this time. As 'evidence' I will supply links to sites that support my assertions: BUMPER STICKER http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dalai+lama+bumper+sticker&qpvt=dalai\ +lama+bumper+sticker&FORM=IGRE <Merle, Okay, I expected that. It's definitely the easiest way for you to respond. Before I do this however I do want to point out that I labeled everything in that post (IMO) so don't feel COMPELLED to present 'evidence', but will comply with your request this time. As 'evidence' I will supply links to sites that support my assertions: BUMPER STICKER http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dalai+lama+bumper+sticker&qpvt=dalai\ +lama+bumper+sticker&FORM=IGRE> CLING TO ATTACHMENTS He is calling for "a genuine autonomy for all Tibetans living in the three traditional provinces of Tibet within the framework of the People's Republic of China. ...the protection and preservation of their culture, religion and national identity."Source - http://www.dalailama.com/messages/middle-way-approach <http://www.dalailama.com/messages/middle-way-approach> THEOCRACY ENSLAVING AND EXPLOITING
"Probably, if the Chinese had not invaded, Amnesty International would now be compiling reports on such human rights abuses as public whippings, and the suppression of dissent needed to sustain serfdom, slavery and theocracy."Source - http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/tibet.html <http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/tibet.html> (...there are many others...) WOMAN LIKE CATTLE (and a lot of other information) "Tibetan Buddhism has a legacy of violence, hypocrisy, sexism, institutional sexual abuse, homophobia and religious rule by a dictator said to be a living god (the Dalai Lama) - all so the idle monk lifestyle could be supported by a feudal system of peasants who gave over half their labor/possessions. Although Chinese rule has been oppressive for the ruling Lamaist class and its defenders, is there ANY evidence to suggest that going back to rule of a feudal God-King would be better than the current system? Has ANY dictator ever ruled to the benefit of "his" people?"Source - http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/277073.shtml <http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/277073.shtml> I hope these will suffice as 'evidence' of my opinions. There are lots and lots of other sites and you can find them yourself by Binging or Goggling. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  the lot...merle >  > Merle, > > Evidence of which part? The bumper-sticker part, the encouragement of attachments part, the enslaving theocracy part or the treating women like cattle part? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester merlewiitpom@ wrote: > > > > > > > > ài beg your pardon?...please clarify with evidence..merle > > > > > > à> > He (IMO) is just a walking bumper-sticker machine. How could you take anyone seriously who purports to be a big-time Buddhist teacher while encouraging his people to cling to their attachments to their culture and language, and supports a theocracy which enslaves and exploits non-clerics by keeping them in ignorance and treats women like cattle? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > Ãâàbill that's not very nice...i have many of his books...and his teachings are sound...merle > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Anthony, > > > > > > Don't put too much stock in anything The Dalai Lama says. He's now just another out-of-work politician...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > That garbage was obtained from Internet, more than one source. Does it sound reasonalbe? > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 7:31 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony, > > > > > > > > I don't know where you get this garbage Antony? > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > Dalai Lama says, if you are faced with two glasses, one containing wine, the other urine, you must drink both without hesitation, in order to qualify for the sex yoga you describe. Right? > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > > > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 8:30 > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's possible I do it all the time... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Edgar, > > > > >> > > > > >> You say, ' Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature back out into the universe...' > > > > >> > > > > >> Is it really possible? Or just an excuse for the pleasue of actual organism, no matter if the body is invigorated with love or not? > > > > >> > > > > >> Anthony > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <mailto:chris%40austin-lane.net> > > > > >> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 22:19 > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sep 12, 2012 5:06 AM, "Edgar Owen" <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Hi Mike, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I rarely use most of the old words > > > > >>> from the texts since I find many of > > > > >>> them confused and overlapping. > > > > >> The very nature of words. > > > > >> But fresh language that captures the freshness of the current moment is always welcome. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> As for the high heels clicking towards you on the sidewalk. Enjoy but don't get too attached! Recognize that as one of the BIGGEST attachments men especially have to deal with. Just realize it's true nature, a biological trick evolution plays on men to perpetuate the species no matter at what cost! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature back out into the universe... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This is the golden glow often depicted radiating around Buddha... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Edgar > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Edgar, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I think you see Mara somewhat differently to how I see it. You seem to see Mara as the illusion of forms, but understanding them as illusion is still reality and not apart of the All which is Buddha Nature. Fair enough, but i think this is more of a Mahayana understanding of Mara. I see Mara as originally understood - the temptation of the senses that leads us to suffering. I can see the overlaps tho, so I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure we both see the world as contin gent and consciousness arises differently depending on what condition presents. For example, If I hear the sound of high heels coming towards me, my mind begins formulating the idea of 'female' and 'beauty' 'desire' etc. My body follows along and so my heart beat increases, adrenalin is released along with some serotonin etc etc. I then build a story/mental formation onto this and might start imagining meeting this woman (still unseen!) and... well, you know the rest. All > from > > > the > > > > > sound of shoes!! This is the meaning of Mara to me - a tempting of the senses that leads us into suffering (self-inflicted!) and can occur from moment to moment as new conditions present. I guess I'm operating from the micro while you're doing so from the macro. But then again, it never hurts to see the bigger picture. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Mike > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ________________________________ > > > > >>>> From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > > > > >>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 11:35 > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Mike and Kris, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the world of forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR WORLD. Properly realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha Nature but a manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion when taken for the whole of reality rather than being realized as a manifestation of Buddha Nature itself. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Edgar > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Kris, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness arises with whatever presents from moment to moment (conditioned). But it's how we react, or not, to these moments that is the crux of whether we suffer... or not. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in Buddhism, including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' they will experience a life free of attachments, desires and craving. If conditions are right, we can experience moments of liberation, but we live in a contingent world and so always need to pay attention to each and every moment. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Nice. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be mindful you don't reject it. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to you, but your enemies closer ; ) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Mike > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > > > >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <mailto:kris%40kgrey.com> > > > > >>>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55 > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kris, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we grow sick, we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't know what's just around the corner ready to befall us. In order to "realise" suffering fully we need to pay mindful attention to what impacts on us - not to just the external stimuli, but also to how we react to them inwardly. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort to maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort to maintain.].)... > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness is sufficient. ;) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by Mara from time to time. life happens moment to moment and no over-riding state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment will eradicate the potential to suffer at any time. All we can do is constantly practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so restless and we can be more aware of those first stirrings of the mind to be so reactive. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished was born to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion is see it was never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other realization/no realization of other. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be mindful you don't reject it. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KG > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
