Merle, It's nearly 5P here and I'm shutting down for the day. I'll pick up your reply if any tomorrow and respond then.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Merle, > > Evidence of which part? The bumper-sticker part, the encouragement of > attachments part, the enslaving theocracy part or the treating women like > cattle part? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  i beg your pardon?...please clarify with evidence..merle > > > > > >  > > He (IMO) is just a walking bumper-sticker machine. How could you take > > anyone seriously who purports to be a big-time Buddhist teacher while > > encouraging his people to cling to their attachments to their culture and > > language, and supports a theocracy which enslaves and exploits non-clerics > > by keeping them in ignorance and treats women like cattle? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > àbill that's not very nice...i have many of his books...and his > > > teachings are sound...merle > > > > > > > > > à> > > Anthony, > > > > > > Don't put too much stock in anything The Dalai Lama says. He's now just > > > another out-of-work politician...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > That garbage was obtained from Internet, more than one source. Does it > > > > sound reasonalbe? > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 7:31 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > Anthony, > > > > > > > > I don't know where you get this garbage Antony? > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > Dalai Lama says, if you are faced with two glasses, one containing > > > > > wine, the other urine, you must drink both without hesitation, in > > > > > order to qualify for the sex yoga you describe. Right? > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > > > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 8:30 > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's possible I do it all the time... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Edgar, > > > > >> > > > > >> You say, ' Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this > > > > >> attachment to generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but > > > > >> then instead of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the > > > > >> other chakras flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being > > > > >> and fill it with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being > > > > >> glows with chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates > > > > >> Buddha Nature back out into the universe...' > > > > >> > > > > >> Is it really possible? Or just an excuse for the pleasue of actual > > > > >> organism, no matter if the body is invigorated with love or not? > > > > >> > > > > >> Anthony > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <mailto:chris%40austin-lane.net> > > > > >> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 22:19 > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sep 12, 2012 5:06 AM, "Edgar Owen" <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Hi Mike, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I rarely use most of the old words > > > > >>> from the texts since I find many of > > > > >>> them confused and overlapping. > > > > >> The very nature of words. > > > > >> But fresh language that captures the freshness of the current moment > > > > >> is always welcome. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> As for the high heels clicking towards you on the sidewalk. Enjoy > > > > >>> but don't get too attached! Recognize that as one of the BIGGEST > > > > >>> attachments men especially have to deal with. Just realize it's > > > > >>> true nature, a biological trick evolution plays on men to > > > > >>> perpetuate the species no matter at what cost! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to > > > > >>> generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead > > > > >>> of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras > > > > >>> flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it > > > > >>> with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with > > > > >>> chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature > > > > >>> back out into the universe... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This is the golden glow often depicted radiating around Buddha... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Edgar > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Edgar, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I think you see Mara somewhat differently to how I see it. You > > > > >>>> seem to see Mara as the illusion of forms, but understanding them > > > > >>>> as illusion is still reality and not apart of the All which is > > > > >>>> Buddha Nature. Fair enough, but i think this is more of a Mahayana > > > > >>>> understanding of Mara. I see Mara as originally understood - the > > > > >>>> temptation of the senses that leads us to suffering. I can see the > > > > >>>> overlaps tho, so I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure we both > > > > >>>> see the world as contin gent and consciousness arises differently > > > > >>>> depending on what condition presents. For example, If I hear the > > > > >>>> sound of high heels coming towards me, my mind begins formulating > > > > >>>> the idea of 'female' and 'beauty' 'desire' etc. My body follows > > > > >>>> along and so my heart beat increases, adrenalin is released along > > > > >>>> with some serotonin etc etc. I then build a story/mental formation > > > > >>>> onto this and might start imagining meeting this woman (still > > > > >>>> unseen!) and... well, you know the rest. All from > > > the > > > > > sound of shoes!! This is the meaning of Mara to me - a tempting of > > > > > the senses that leads us into suffering (self-inflicted!) and can > > > > > occur from moment to moment as new conditions present. I guess I'm > > > > > operating from the micro while you're doing so from the macro. But > > > > > then again, it never hurts to see the bigger picture. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Mike > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ________________________________ > > > > >>>> From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > > > > >>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 11:35 > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Mike and Kris, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the > > > > >>>> world of forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR > > > > >>>> WORLD. Properly realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha > > > > >>>> Nature but a manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion > > > > >>>> when taken for the whole of reality rather than being realized as > > > > >>>> a manifestation of Buddha Nature itself. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Edgar > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Kris, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. > > > > >>>>>> Abiding as whatever presents. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness > > > > >>>>> arises with whatever presents from moment to moment > > > > >>>>> (conditioned). But it's how we react, or not, to these moments > > > > >>>>> that is the crux of whether we suffer... or not. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in > > > > >>>>> Buddhism, including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' > > > > >>>>> they will experience a life free of attachments, desires and > > > > >>>>> craving. If conditions are right, we can experience moments of > > > > >>>>> liberation, but we live in a contingent world and so always need > > > > >>>>> to pay attention to each and every moment. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Nice. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be > > > > >>>>>> mindful you don't reject it. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to > > > > >>>>> you, but your enemies closer ; ) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Mike > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > > > >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <mailto:kris%40kgrey.com> > > > > >>>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55 > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Kris, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we > > > > >>>>>> grow sick, we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't > > > > >>>>>> know what's just around the corner ready to befall us. In order > > > > >>>>>> to "realise" suffering fully we need to pay mindful attention to > > > > >>>>>> what impacts on us - not to just the external stimuli, but also > > > > >>>>>> to how we react to them inwardly. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent > > > > >>>>> origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none > > > > >>>>> other than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great > > > > >>>>> effort to maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not > > > > >>>>> abiding take great effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. > > > > >>>>> Delusions of not abiding take great effort to maintain.].)... > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness > > > > >>>>> is sufficient. ;) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by > > > > >>>>>> Mara from time to time. life happens moment to moment and no > > > > >>>>>> over-riding state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment > > > > >>>>>> will eradicate the potential to suffer at any time. All we can > > > > >>>>>> do is constantly practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so > > > > >>>>>> restless and we can be more aware of those first stirrings of > > > > >>>>>> the mind to be so reactive. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished > > > > >>>>> was born to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion > > > > >>>>> is see it was never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other > > > > >>>>> realization/no realization of other. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be > > > > >>>>> mindful you don't reject it. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> KG > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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