Edgar, 'Ditching' the illusion of self is the very core of zen. Of course you can do it. That's what happens when you realize Buddha Nature.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > So what? The self can enjoy being satisfied with what it gets without getting > everything it wants. > > Not being satisfied completely all the time is no big deal.... > > Looking forward to the next cookie is just fine. > > It's the obsessing about not having it now which is the problem. > > Zen includes looking forward to the next cookie. What Zen is NOT is trashing > looking forward to the next cookie. > > One needs some common sense here. It's suffering because you don't have a > cookie that is NOT Zen. Looking forward to the next cookie is just fine.... > > And it is saying that looking forward to the next cookie is not Zen that is > really what is NOT Zen.... > > > > While the notion that that person self in the usual sense is ultimately an > illusion, Zen is enjoying and living your illusions while understanding them > for what they really are. > > Zen is NOT completely ditching your sense of self. For one thing it's > impossible so long as you live... Zen is experiencing your sense of self for > what it really is, a very useful illusion necessary to maintain your > existence.... > > Edgar > > > > On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:02 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Suresh, > > > > Your self wants to question and seeks answers. Your self wants this and > > wants that - and never stops. No answers can fulfill your self because as > > soon as an answer appears your self creates another question. As soon as > > one desire is fulfilled your self creates another desire. > > > > There is no means of satisfying your self. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN <varamtha@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > Who wants to question? Who seeks answer? What is that he wants? Why no > > > answers fullfill him? > > > > > > Suresh > > > > > > On 10/25/12, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Suresh, > > > > > > > > Well, yes and no. Your own nature IS Buddha nature... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:55 PM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Zen is not on how to attain buddha nature rather it is how to dissolve > > > >> your own nature. > > > >> > > > >> suresh > > > >> > > > >> On Oct 25, 2012 5:31 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! > > > >> (merlewiitpom@) Add cleanup rule | More info > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> yuk!.... merle > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Joe, Merle, etc. > > > >> > > > >> It wasn't just a stick but a stick wrapped in something soft. I don't > > > >> know > > > >> what the orientals wrapped them in but these were used by the Romans > > > >> for > > > >> example where a sponge was wrapped around a stick. The sponges would be > > > >> dipped in water or more often vinegar to clean the bottom after > > > >> defecating. They were left beside the seats at public latrines for > > > >> common > > > >> use. > > > >> > > > >> In fact that is exactly what was used by the Roman soldiers when Jesus > > > >> was > > > >> on the cross and asked for water. Instead they held up a shit wiping > > > >> stick > > > >> dipped in vinegar to his mouth. > > > >> > > > >> A little known historical fact! > > > >> > > > >> Edgar > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Oct 23, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Joe wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> Merle, > > > >>> > > > >>> The latter, I think. I imagine it was fashioned in the form of a flat > > > >>> blade, like a palette-knife, or putty knife, probably from a broad > > > >>> thin > > > >>> piece of architectural bamboo. > > > >>> > > > >>> It must have been a common enough accessory in use at the Ch'an > > > >>> monasteries, some of which housed hundreds of monks or nuns, and the > > > >>> latrines must have been extensive. And so the Master made use of the > > > >>> stick as an example, in his teaching. > > > >>> > > > >>> Others might have answered, "The Oak Tree in the court yard" (but at > > > >>> some > > > >>> of the monasteries on high mountains, Oaks did not grow, but mostly > > > >>> Pines > > > >>> did/do). Bamboo could be brought up from below, for building, and for > > > >>> implements. > > > >>> > > > >>> Still others might have answered, "Just THIS!". > > > >>> > > > >>> The Master was very compassionate, bringing the student back into the > > > >>> "here and now" with what he said and how he said it. > > > >>> > > > >>> --Joe > > > >>> > > > >>> > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > >>> > huh??????? wiping what.... the toilet or the arse?.. > > > >>> > so it's an arse wiping stick? > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thanks and best regards > > > J.Suresh > > > New No.3, Old No.7, > > > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > > > Alwarpet, > > > Chennai - 600018 > > > Ph: 044 42030947 > > > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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