Bill, Bill is finally getting it right. Here he speaks not of dropping illusions but as seeing illusions AS illusions. That's what I've been trying to say to him for a long time.
Edgar On Oct 28, 2012, at 7:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > Mike, > > It's certainly not a command and not really a suggestion. > > IMO... > > In order to become aware of Buddha Nature for the first time (kensho_ people > have to 'stop' or 'halt' their discriminating mind (intellect and source of > illusions). This is the purpose of all zen teaching techniques such as koans, > chanting, bowing, kinhin (walking mediation), samu (mindfulness work detail) > and even zazen (shikantaza). After that these techniques are used to deepen > and integrate the experience of Buddha Nature into all phases of daily life > including the reappearance of the discriminating mind, rationality, illusions > and all - but now these are seen as illusions and applied/accepted without > attachments. > > I don't know why I used the term 'drop' there, but I think I was echoing > something said in the post to which I was replying. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > >Drop the mind > > > > > > Is that a command or a suggestion? To be honest, I don't think either are > > possible. That'd be like satori or demand. I see dropping the mind as a > > kind of 'grace' rather than something you can 'do'. Who was it here (I > > think it was Chris) who quoted someone who said something similar? To > > paraphrase, 'If Enlightenment is an accident, then zazen makes us > > accident-prone'. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, 28 October 2012, 9:16 > > Subject: [Zen] Re: if one looses one's mind can one still experience zen? > > > > > >  > > Merle, > > > > Lots to cover...I've embedded my responses in the body of your text... > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > bill!.. > > > so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!... > > Just THIS! > > > > > by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful.. > > > means i have to do shift.....that's not my style.. > > > so it will have to be billllllllll...... > > >  hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh? > > > > A little... > > > > >  billllllllllllllllllll..................... > > >  so you have told me over and over again we must all have > > > instructions.. > > > well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name... > > > i am the teacher... > > > how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!... > > > > I didn't count them. Many times. > > > > >  don't you have faith in me?.. > > > > No. > > > > > don't trust me? > > > > No. > > > > > sensual ..mmmm interesting.. > > > i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed > > > instructions > > > that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses... > > > as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?.. > > > > Absolutely not. Do not detach yourself from your senses. They are how you > > experience. They are the gateway to Buddha Nature. > > > > > so what are we left with mind!... > > > > Drop the mind and you are left with only senses - only experience - Just > > THIS! > > > > > do you hate your mind? > > > > No. > > > > >  somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not > > > be tolerated!.. > > > > ATTACHMENT to the mind is a hindrance to realizing Buddha Nature, not the > > mind itself. > > > > > look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one > > > still experience zen? > > > > You don't EXPERIENCE zen, you PRACTICE zen. You EXPERIENCE Buddha Nature. > > And yes, anyone that is able t > >
