bill!.. so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!... by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful.. means i have to do shift.....that's not my style.. so it will have to be billllllllll...... hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh? billllllllllllllllllll..................... so you have told me over and over again we must all have instructions.. well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name... i am the teacher... how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!... don't you have faith in me?.. don't trust me? sensual ..mmmm interesting.. i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed instructions that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses... as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?.. so what are we left with mind!... do you hate your mind? somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not be tolerated!.. look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one still experience zen? merle
Bill, There is no "transmission" of Zen from person to person. There is only pointing. Realization does NOT come from any other person. It comes from directly confronting reality and seeing it as it actually is... Edgar On Oct 27, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Bill! wrote: >Merle, > >We stress 'instructions' here because this is a forum dedicated to Zen >Buddhism. Zen Buddhism has a history of being perpetuated by a very intimate, >one-to-one teacher/student relationship which results in a mind-to-mind >transmission. The first example of that I have ever heard of is Siddhartha's >mind-to-mind transmission (realization of Buddha Nature) to Mahakashapa at >Vulture Peak. > >'Sensual' means 'having to do with the senses'. It's from the same root as is >'sentient' as in 'all sentient beings have Buddha Nature'. >Our discriminating mind divides the senses into 5 categories: sight, hearing, >smell, taste and feel. > >...Bill! > >--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> >> bill!..you are obsessed with instructions from some one else: why? because >> that is the way you did this..so we all flow with you? >>  why a teacher?.... are we not all teachers unto to ourselves?... >>  please explain sensual.... >> merle >>  >> Edgar, Merle and Joe, >> >> Of course you can experience Buddha Nature 'on your own'. You could build a >> Space Shuttle 'on your own', by trial and error, or you could take advantage >> of the teachings and advice of those who have already built one. Both >> Siddhartha and Jesus (according to the accounts we have)were precocious >> children and yet even they struggled their whole life to realize what we (or >> at least I) now call 'Buddha Nature'. >> >> Siddhartha is said to have first recognized life was suffering and wanted to >> discover how to alleviate it. He first tried studying (rationality), then >> scriptures (faith), then asceticism (body) and found no relief. He finally >> swore to just sit under a tree until he discovered who to alleviate >> suffering, and not to get up until he did - or died. >> >> As the story goes on the 40th morning he saw the light from the a star as it >> rose above the horizon just before daybreak. It was then he realized what I >> now call 'Buddha Nature'. >> >> Seeing the light was a sensual experience - not an understanding or an act >> of faith. >> >> Anyone can do this by themselves as Siddhartha did or Jesus - but it is much >> more likely you will be able to do this with the guidance of a teacher. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >  joe..what edgar says makes sense...who was buddha's teacher? who was >> > christ's teacher?..merle >> > >> > >> >  >> > Joe, >> > >> > You claim that "you cannot do the work to awaken on your own". >> > >> > O really, then who pray tell was Buddha's teacher since he had no human >> > teacher? >> > >> > Give up? >> > >> > Answer. It was reality as I've been trying to explain to you. >> > >> > I prove my point... >> > >> > Edgar >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Joe wrote: >> > >> >  >> > >Edgar, >> > > >> > >No, Edgar, it is not BS. >> > > >> > >(If you need someone to attack, try Paintball). >> > > >> > >A lot of self-enlightened fools traipse the streets of the world. They >> > >are not awake. Are you one? No, I think you worked with a teacher, once. >> > > >> > >The methods of Zen are Medicine, and the Teacher is Medicine, too. So is >> > >a Sangha. >> > > >> > >You cannot do the work to awaken on your own. The fact that you think it >> > >is on "your" own is what keeps you in the small bottle, and prevents You >> > >from flowing out to expand to the walls of the infinite aquarium. >> > > >> > >Take the medicine; awaken; be well; and *then* your last line is finally >> > >true. Not before. >> > > >> > >Of course not everybody wants to or can do that, even if it means never >> > >awakening. But when these fools represent themselves as masters and >> > >demean or deprecate Practice, they are not to be suffered gladly, nor >> > >suffered at all. >> > > >> > >Yes, it's everywhere. So are the unoxidizable tools of awakening, >> > >waiting in the shed, available to you and to everyone if you want to see >> > >a change. >> > > >> > >Go for it! >> > > >> > >Or maybe you've done this at some time, and still remember it. >> > > >> > >--Joe >> > > >> > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Joe, >> > >> >> > >> This is BS. >> > >> [snip] >> > >> Zen is not to be found in a teacher or monastery. It's everywhere right >> > >> in front of your nose.. >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >
