Um...
--- In [email protected], ChrisAustinLane wrote:
>
> Does a dog have free will?
>
> /lifts leg
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Austin-Lane
> Sent from a cell phone
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 17:17, "Joe" wrote:
>
> > Greetings, Fleetinginsight,
> >
> > A well-considered post! Welcome.
> >
> > Regarding the matter of free will in a Buddhist context, remember that,
> > among monastics and lay people, there are... "Vows". The monastics of
> > course take many more of the Precepts than lay people do; and, at least
> > three times per day, monastics in their daily practice -- and lay people,
> > say, on sesshin or zazenkai -- chant the four Bodhisattva Vows.
> >
> > Now, what do you make of the matter of free will, and the practice of
> > taking, making, and practicing according to, and in accord with... Vows?
> >
> > We can ask the same things you ask about free will: WHO takes the vows (who
> > makes them; who adheres to them... )? And, we can note that we can "keep"
> > a vow, but we might also "break" it. Granted, the Zen sect, like others,
> > takes hetu pratyaya -- conditioned arising -- as gospel: as reality.
> > Yet... Vows are considered -- known -- to have power.
> >
> > I simply put this out there for all to consider. I'll work on it, too,
> > over the next hours or days.
> >
> > Just a brief reply, and a "Welcome!" to the Group.
> >
> > --Joe
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "fleetinginsight" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Greetings, all, from a new member.
> >>
> >> This is an interesting question; I thought I'd try exploring it from a
> >> slightly different direction.
> >>
> >> In a strictly philosophical sense, "free will" doesn't make any sense from
> >> a Buddhist (or Zen) framework, does it?
> >>
> >> First, free will is the notion that I have ultimate dominion over my
> >> choices and actions. But, of course, Buddhism teaches that there is no
> >> inherent or lasting "I" that could act as the controller. So, who is it
> >> that controls these choices? The self that appears to be in control is
> >> itself fleeting and arisen from causes and conditions, so it can't be
> >> that, can it?
> >>
> >> Second, free will usually comes with the requirement that in any
> >> particular situation (i.e., holding constant the forces at play), I *could
> >> have* done otherwise. This seems quite incoherent with the notion that all
> >> phenomena (including the momentary experience of the self) arise
> >> sufficiently on the basis of causes and conditions. The decision or
> >> choice could be different -- but first you'd have to find a way to change
> >> the causes and conditions that give rise to the self who decides. In this
> >> sense, most decisions, in the moment they are made couldn't have been
> >> different than how they were.
> >>
> >> So, in some sense our decisions are fully the product of our karma (I'm
> >> using "karma" here to simply mean conditioned patterns of perceiving,
> >> judging, and acting upon the world). But karma is not fixed (there's that
> >> darn impermanence thing again). Karma, too, is subject to causes and
> >> conditions. One such condition, mindfulness, seems to "open up" our
> >> habitual ways of acting to alternative possibilities. Mindfulness means
> >> awareness of the arising and ceasing of particular perceptions or
> >> thoughts. It seems that this awareness takes away some of the usual
> >> "power" of habits and allows for alternative courses of action. This
> >> isn't really "free will" in any meaningful sense, but it is greater
> >> flexibility in our ways of relating to the world, which itself sews the
> >> seeds for future behavior.
> >>
> >> Anyway, these are the musings of my karmic mind. ;) I'd love to hear what
> >> others have to say.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------
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