I laugh and blush. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 11, 2013, at 23:35, "Bill!" <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, > > Maybe that was just a little too subtle... > > 'Um' spelled backwards is....? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], ChrisAustinLane wrote: >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> Chris Austin-Lane >> Sent from a cell phone >> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 18:07, "Bill!" wrote: >> >>> Um... >> >> ? >> >>> >>> --- In [email protected], ChrisAustinLane wrote: >>>> >>>> Does a dog have free will? >>>> >>>> /lifts leg >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chris Austin-Lane >>>> Sent from a cell phone >>>> >>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 17:17, "Joe" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings, Fleetinginsight, >>>>> >>>>> A well-considered post! Welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the matter of free will in a Buddhist context, remember that, >>>>> among monastics and lay people, there are... "Vows". The monastics of >>>>> course take many more of the Precepts than lay people do; and, at least >>>>> three times per day, monastics in their daily practice -- and lay people, >>>>> say, on sesshin or zazenkai -- chant the four Bodhisattva Vows. >>>>> >>>>> Now, what do you make of the matter of free will, and the practice of >>>>> taking, making, and practicing according to, and in accord with... Vows? >>>>> >>>>> We can ask the same things you ask about free will: WHO takes the vows >>>>> (who makes them; who adheres to them... )? And, we can note that we can >>>>> "keep" a vow, but we might also "break" it. Granted, the Zen sect, like >>>>> others, takes hetu pratyaya -- conditioned arising -- as gospel: as >>>>> reality. Yet... Vows are considered -- known -- to have power. >>>>> >>>>> I simply put this out there for all to consider. I'll work on it, too, >>>>> over the next hours or days. >>>>> >>>>> Just a brief reply, and a "Welcome!" to the Group. >>>>> >>>>> --Joe >>>>> >>>>> --- In [email protected], "fleetinginsight" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings, all, from a new member. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is an interesting question; I thought I'd try exploring it from a >>>>>> slightly different direction. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a strictly philosophical sense, "free will" doesn't make any sense >>>>>> from a Buddhist (or Zen) framework, does it? >>>>>> >>>>>> First, free will is the notion that I have ultimate dominion over my >>>>>> choices and actions. But, of course, Buddhism teaches that there is no >>>>>> inherent or lasting "I" that could act as the controller. So, who is it >>>>>> that controls these choices? The self that appears to be in control is >>>>>> itself fleeting and arisen from causes and conditions, so it can't be >>>>>> that, can it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Second, free will usually comes with the requirement that in any >>>>>> particular situation (i.e., holding constant the forces at play), I >>>>>> *could have* done otherwise. This seems quite incoherent with the notion >>>>>> that all phenomena (including the momentary experience of the self) >>>>>> arise sufficiently on the basis of causes and conditions. The decision >>>>>> or choice could be different -- but first you'd have to find a way to >>>>>> change the causes and conditions that give rise to the self who decides. >>>>>> In this sense, most decisions, in the moment they are made couldn't >>>>>> have been different than how they were. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, in some sense our decisions are fully the product of our karma (I'm >>>>>> using "karma" here to simply mean conditioned patterns of perceiving, >>>>>> judging, and acting upon the world). But karma is not fixed (there's >>>>>> that darn impermanence thing again). Karma, too, is subject to causes >>>>>> and conditions. One such condition, mindfulness, seems to "open up" our >>>>>> habitual ways of acting to alternative possibilities. Mindfulness means >>>>>> awareness of the arising and ceasing of particular perceptions or >>>>>> thoughts. It seems that this awareness takes away some of the usual >>>>>> "power" of habits and allows for alternative courses of action. This >>>>>> isn't really "free will" in any meaningful sense, but it is greater >>>>>> flexibility in our ways of relating to the world, which itself sews the >>>>>> seeds for future behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, these are the musings of my karmic mind. ;) I'd love to hear >>>>>> what others have to say. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are >>>>> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are >>> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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