Bill (and MERLE should read this one too!) Bill, I read your poems on your personal site. It's clear you have a spiritual nature as well as a romantic! And that's a complement!
Merle, take heart. In spite of Bill's protestations he has a strong spiritual romantic side as well that he tries to conceal from the group... He's not such a grumpy old Daruma-like fuddy duddy as he appears..... :-) Edgar On Apr 14, 2013, at 5:01 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I run two of my own: one personal and one business. I also run one for my > high school class. They are at: > > www.billsmart.com > www.billsmart.com/bsc > www.hhs1963.org > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Thanks, I'll check it out though I use a Mac... > > > > BTW out of curiosity what couple of websites do you run? > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > I did get this software and checked it out to see if I could use it to > > > possible replace a couple websites I run. I found it easy to use but it > > > was a little limited for a complete website of the type I wanted. They > > > have lots of templates and you can do most anything you want. It really > > > has a nice, clean look. It's all free. They also have upgrades that you > > > can buy, but they're not necessary. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > Check them out...http://wordpress.org/. Their own site is run on their > > > software. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Have you used that sw to start any blogs yourself? If so I'd like to > > > > know your experience.. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > You're correct. I don't, but RAF clearly does. It's the same with all > > > > > illusion. If you believe it's real it can have real effects on you. > > > > > Like feeling guilty, or feeling like you sinned. > > > > > > > > > > I just expressed my hope that RAF finds a way to share his thoughts > > > > > in a way that will make him feel he is avoiding or at least reducing > > > > > the amount of negative karma he thinks he may be accumulating; or > > > > > perhaps even start accumulating positive karma if he believes karma > > > > > comes in those two flavors. > > > > > > > > > > I do agree with some of the others' suggestions that RAF's insights > > > > > into genetic science and/or evolutionary psychology sound like > > > > > something that would much better received on a forum dedicated > > > > > specifically to those fields, or at least focused on science. > > > > > > > > > > Since he sounds like he's mainly interested in acceptance and > > > > > definitely looking to avoid any hint of challenge or rejection he > > > > > might even consider just starting a BLOG in which he could record and > > > > > publish his insights, perhaps allowing some questions or comments if > > > > > and when he feels ready for that kind of interaction. If he wants to > > > > > do that I suggest he check out Wordpress (http://wordpress.org/) for > > > > > some very practical and user-friendly blog software. > > > > > > > > > > Another thing he could consider would be to start his own Yahoo! > > > > > Group dedicated to his area of focus - whatever that is. > > > > > > > > > > Anything to keep the karma wolf from the door... > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought you didn't believe in karma? > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAF (via Edgar), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although I find your assertion that genetic science and > > > > > > > evolutionary psychology have anything at all to do with zen > > > > > > > besides further muddying the waters (remember the moon?) I can > > > > > > > assure you that I do not assert that I know what is 'morally > > > > > > > right and wrong' and do not hold any of my views as 'righteous' > > > > > > > at all. When I speak assertively, positively and confidently it > > > > > > > is because they are the results of experience - not thought. I do > > > > > > > have to express this experience in thought and certainly run into > > > > > > > my share of problems there, but this is the reason I participate > > > > > > > in the Yahoo! Zen Forum (and others) - to improve my ability to > > > > > > > communicate my experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But as both Edgar and even Merle will tell you I am always open > > > > > > > to hearing other's points of view. That doesn't mean I'll agree > > > > > > > and also doesn't mean I won't push back or ask difficult > > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wish to participate in the Zen Forum directly or > > > > > > > indirectly (via Edgar) please do. If you wish to start up private > > > > > > > email discussions between yourself and our members you're of > > > > > > > course welcome to do that also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However you decide to proceed I certainly hope it helps you with > > > > > > > that karma problem you seem to think you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a persuasive fellow, Edgar, and I am mindful of the > > > > > > > > > negative karma of hiding the dharma, but remain dubious that > > > > > > > > > any of the lurkers will be more receptive of my insight than > > > > > > > > > those who post. So, let's do this: you may post this, and > > > > > > > > > antecedent e-mails to the group with the following statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas I am grateful for those who gave me a glimpse of the > > > > > > > > > moon, I am willing to discuss the dharma with those who have > > > > > > > > > an open mind regarding the insights of genetic science and > > > > > > > > > evolutionary psychology. Those of you who believe the > > > > > > > > > historic-but-pre-scientific Way of Zen is already perfect, > > > > > > > > > and, in particular that the current manifestation of the zen > > > > > > > > > tradition is acceptable, should not waste our time by > > > > > > > > > contacting me. In particular, those who believe you already > > > > > > > > > know what is morally right and wrong, in accordance with the > > > > > > > > > dharma, will not be able to comprehend my view. Those who > > > > > > > > > believe that anything which happens to agree with your > > > > > > > > > inclinations is 'zen', or who would argue that promiscuous > > > > > > > > > altruism is righteousness would be wasting their time to > > > > > > > > > communicate with me. Those of you who believe that emotional > > > > > > > > > states you may have experienced are self authenticating and > > > > > > > > > have given you access to 'truth' are probably not ready to > > > > > > > > > understand me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not absolutely refuse to communicate with Bill, Joe, or > > > > > > > > > even Chris, Mike or Merle, but unless those of you who agree > > > > > > > > > with the views they have expressed can abandon the assumption > > > > > > > > > that your views are congruent with 'righteousness' I don't > > > > > > > > > think I can help you, and I have no interest in disputation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@> > > > > > > > > > To: "rafonda@" <rafonda@> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:38 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: re > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are actually several hundred members of the group who > > > > > > > > > likely read but don't post. Think of all those poor souls > > > > > > > > > starved for the truth! > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:34 PM, rafonda@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I appreciate the implication of this, but recall that I > > > > > > > > >> eschewed the Bodhisattva vows, though of course I didn't > > > > > > > > >> know this pack of losers then. Still, because I am mindful > > > > > > > > >> of the karmic debt I owe to those who pointed out the moon > > > > > > > > >> to me, I not only imparted my view, but did so several > > > > > > > > >> times, in spite of rudeness and scorn: obligation > > > > > > > > >> discharged. I am not attached to teaching or 'saving' these > > > > > > > > >> people. In the cases of some of them, I actually feel > > > > > > > > >> something like schadenfreude: it is their karmic burden to > > > > > > > > >> have denied others whatever assistance I might have > > > > > > > > >> provided, by scorning my wisdom, so not only are they > > > > > > > > >> blundering off in 'darkness', but they have denied the light > > > > > > > > >> to others. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> If I actually thought any of them had ears to hear, I would > > > > > > > > >> speak again, but they are too full of themselves, and the PC > > > > > > > > >> semblance-of-zen of this era actually does confirm their > > > > > > > > >> rejection of my view, so I am content to follow my Way and > > > > > > > > >> keep my own counsel: let everyone work out their own > > > > > > > > >> salvation ;-) > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> RAF > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@> > > > > > > > > >> To: "rafonda@ Fonda" <rafonda@> > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:36 PM > > > > > > > > >> Subject: re > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> PS: I really wish you'd post your thoughts to the Zen group > > > > > > > > >> as well as just me. Would be an excellent counter to all the > > > > > > > > >> nonsense there... > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > > > > > >> Edgar > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
