Bill,

Have you used that sw to start any blogs yourself? If so I'd like to know your 
experience..

Edgar


On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Bill! wrote:

> Edgar,
> 
> You're correct. I don't, but RAF clearly does. It's the same with all 
> illusion. If you believe it's real it can have real effects on you. Like 
> feeling guilty, or feeling like you sinned.
> 
> I just expressed my hope that RAF finds a way to share his thoughts in a way 
> that will make him feel he is avoiding or at least reducing the amount of 
> negative karma he thinks he may be accumulating; or perhaps even start 
> accumulating positive karma if he believes karma comes in those two flavors.
> 
> I do agree with some of the others' suggestions that RAF's insights into 
> genetic science and/or evolutionary psychology sound like something that 
> would much better received on a forum dedicated specifically to those fields, 
> or at least focused on science.
> 
> Since he sounds like he's mainly interested in acceptance and definitely 
> looking to avoid any hint of challenge or rejection he might even consider 
> just starting a BLOG in which he could record and publish his insights, 
> perhaps allowing some questions or comments if and when he feels ready for 
> that kind of interaction. If he wants to do that I suggest he check out 
> Wordpress (http://wordpress.org/) for some very practical and user-friendly 
> blog software.
> 
> Another thing he could consider would be to start his own Yahoo! Group 
> dedicated to his area of focus - whatever that is.
> 
> Anything to keep the karma wolf from the door...
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> > 
> > I thought you didn't believe in karma?
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > 
> > > RAF (via Edgar),
> > > 
> > > Although I find your assertion that genetic science and evolutionary 
> > > psychology have anything at all to do with zen besides further muddying 
> > > the waters (remember the moon?) I can assure you that I do not assert 
> > > that I know what is 'morally right and wrong' and do not hold any of my 
> > > views as 'righteous' at all. When I speak assertively, positively and 
> > > confidently it is because they are the results of experience - not 
> > > thought. I do have to express this experience in thought and certainly 
> > > run into my share of problems there, but this is the reason I participate 
> > > in the Yahoo! Zen Forum (and others) - to improve my ability to 
> > > communicate my experience.
> > > 
> > > But as both Edgar and even Merle will tell you I am always open to 
> > > hearing other's points of view. That doesn't mean I'll agree and also 
> > > doesn't mean I won't push back or ask difficult questions.
> > > 
> > > If you wish to participate in the Zen Forum directly or indirectly (via 
> > > Edgar) please do. If you wish to start up private email discussions 
> > > between yourself and our members you're of course welcome to do that also.
> > > 
> > > However you decide to proceed I certainly hope it helps you with that 
> > > karma problem you seem to think you have.
> > > 
> > > ...Bill!
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > You are a persuasive fellow, Edgar, and I am mindful of the negative 
> > > > > karma of hiding the dharma, but remain dubious that any of the 
> > > > > lurkers will be more receptive of my insight than those who post. So, 
> > > > > let's do this: you may post this, and antecedent e-mails to the group 
> > > > > with the following statement.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Whereas I am grateful for those who gave me a glimpse of the moon, I 
> > > > > am willing to discuss the dharma with those who have an open mind 
> > > > > regarding the insights of genetic science and evolutionary 
> > > > > psychology. Those of you who believe the historic-but-pre-scientific 
> > > > > Way of Zen is already perfect, and, in particular that the current 
> > > > > manifestation of the zen tradition is acceptable, should not waste 
> > > > > our time by contacting me. In particular, those who believe you 
> > > > > already know what is morally right and wrong, in accordance with the 
> > > > > dharma, will not be able to comprehend my view. Those who believe 
> > > > > that anything which happens to agree with your inclinations is 'zen', 
> > > > > or who would argue that promiscuous altruism is righteousness would 
> > > > > be wasting their time to communicate with me. Those of you who 
> > > > > believe that emotional states you may have experienced are self 
> > > > > authenticating and have given you access to 'truth' are probably not 
> > > > > ready to understand me. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I do not absolutely refuse to communicate with Bill, Joe, or even 
> > > > > Chris, Mike or Merle, but unless those of you who agree with the 
> > > > > views they have expressed can abandon the assumption that your views 
> > > > > are congruent with 'righteousness' I don't think I can help you, and 
> > > > > I have no interest in disputation. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > RAF 
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@>
> > > > > To: "rafonda@" <rafonda@> 
> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:38 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: re
> > > > > 
> > > > > There are actually several hundred members of the group who likely 
> > > > > read but don't post. Think of all those poor souls starved for the 
> > > > > truth!
> > > > > :-)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Edgar
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:34 PM, rafonda@ wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > >> I appreciate the implication of this, but recall that I eschewed the 
> > > > >> Bodhisattva vows, though of course I didn't know this pack of losers 
> > > > >> then. Still, because I am mindful of the karmic debt I owe to those 
> > > > >> who pointed out the moon to me, I not only imparted my view, but did 
> > > > >> so several times, in spite of rudeness and scorn: obligation 
> > > > >> discharged. I am not attached to teaching or 'saving' these people. 
> > > > >> In the cases of some of them, I actually feel something like 
> > > > >> schadenfreude: it is their karmic burden to have denied others 
> > > > >> whatever assistance I might have provided, by scorning my wisdom, so 
> > > > >> not only are they blundering off in 'darkness', but they have denied 
> > > > >> the light to others.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> If I actually thought any of them had ears to hear, I would speak 
> > > > >> again, but they are too full of themselves, and the PC 
> > > > >> semblance-of-zen of this era actually does confirm their rejection 
> > > > >> of my view, so I am content to follow my Way and keep my own 
> > > > >> counsel: let everyone work out their own salvation ;-)
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> RAF
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@>
> > > > >> To: "rafonda@ Fonda" <rafonda@> 
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:36 PM
> > > > >> Subject: re
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> PS: I really wish you'd post your thoughts to the Zen group as well 
> > > > >> as just me. Would be an excellent counter to all the nonsense 
> > > > >> there...
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Edgar
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
> 
> 

Reply via email to