Bill, I thought you didn't believe in karma?
Edgar On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Bill! wrote: > RAF (via Edgar), > > Although I find your assertion that genetic science and evolutionary > psychology have anything at all to do with zen besides further muddying the > waters (remember the moon?) I can assure you that I do not assert that I know > what is 'morally right and wrong' and do not hold any of my views as > 'righteous' at all. When I speak assertively, positively and confidently it > is because they are the results of experience - not thought. I do have to > express this experience in thought and certainly run into my share of > problems there, but this is the reason I participate in the Yahoo! Zen Forum > (and others) - to improve my ability to communicate my experience. > > But as both Edgar and even Merle will tell you I am always open to hearing > other's points of view. That doesn't mean I'll agree and also doesn't mean I > won't push back or ask difficult questions. > > If you wish to participate in the Zen Forum directly or indirectly (via > Edgar) please do. If you wish to start up private email discussions between > yourself and our members you're of course welcome to do that also. > > However you decide to proceed I certainly hope it helps you with that karma > problem you seem to think you have. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > You are a persuasive fellow, Edgar, and I am mindful of the negative > > > karma of hiding the dharma, but remain dubious that any of the lurkers > > > will be more receptive of my insight than those who post. So, let's do > > > this: you may post this, and antecedent e-mails to the group with the > > > following statement. > > > > > > Whereas I am grateful for those who gave me a glimpse of the moon, I am > > > willing to discuss the dharma with those who have an open mind regarding > > > the insights of genetic science and evolutionary psychology. Those of you > > > who believe the historic-but-pre-scientific Way of Zen is already > > > perfect, and, in particular that the current manifestation of the zen > > > tradition is acceptable, should not waste our time by contacting me. In > > > particular, those who believe you already know what is morally right and > > > wrong, in accordance with the dharma, will not be able to comprehend my > > > view. Those who believe that anything which happens to agree with your > > > inclinations is 'zen', or who would argue that promiscuous altruism is > > > righteousness would be wasting their time to communicate with me. Those > > > of you who believe that emotional states you may have experienced are > > > self authenticating and have given you access to 'truth' are probably not > > > ready to understand me. > > > > > > I do not absolutely refuse to communicate with Bill, Joe, or even Chris, > > > Mike or Merle, but unless those of you who agree with the views they have > > > expressed can abandon the assumption that your views are congruent with > > > 'righteousness' I don't think I can help you, and I have no interest in > > > disputation. > > > > > > RAF > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@...> > > > To: "rafonda@..." <rafonda@...> > > > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:38 AM > > > Subject: Re: re > > > > > > There are actually several hundred members of the group who likely read > > > but don't post. Think of all those poor souls starved for the truth! > > > :-) > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:34 PM, rafonda@... wrote: > > > > > >> I appreciate the implication of this, but recall that I eschewed the > > >> Bodhisattva vows, though of course I didn't know this pack of losers > > >> then. Still, because I am mindful of the karmic debt I owe to those who > > >> pointed out the moon to me, I not only imparted my view, but did so > > >> several times, in spite of rudeness and scorn: obligation discharged. I > > >> am not attached to teaching or 'saving' these people. In the cases of > > >> some of them, I actually feel something like schadenfreude: it is their > > >> karmic burden to have denied others whatever assistance I might have > > >> provided, by scorning my wisdom, so not only are they blundering off in > > >> 'darkness', but they have denied the light to others. > > >> > > >> If I actually thought any of them had ears to hear, I would speak again, > > >> but they are too full of themselves, and the PC semblance-of-zen of this > > >> era actually does confirm their rejection of my view, so I am content to > > >> follow my Way and keep my own counsel: let everyone work out their own > > >> salvation ;-) > > >> > > >> RAF > > >> > > >> From: Edgar Owen <Edgar@...> > > >> To: "rafonda@... Fonda" <rafonda@...> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:36 PM > > >> Subject: re > > >> > > >> PS: I really wish you'd post your thoughts to the Zen group as well as > > >> just me. Would be an excellent counter to all the nonsense there... > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
