Edgar, Just remember the old adage...'no good deed goes unpunished'...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, et al, > > This reminds me of when I was living in Japan. One day I was walking along a > drainage canal and saw a small white dog drowning in it. The canal had high > concrete walls and it couldn't climb out. I jumped in and saved it and as > soon as I got it out it bit me! > > Funniest thing was that the day it happened was Buddha's birthday! > > Kind of reminds me of Joe's and Bill's response for all I do for them! > :-) > > Edgar > > > > > On May 2, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Merle, > > > > I have have been practicing for about 47 years, sometimes intensely and > > sometimes not. I have not yet been able to eliminate all ignorance and all > > craving but I have been able to reduce them both in number and in intensity > > quite a bit. > > > > MY PERSONAL STORY > > About two years ago I discovered very young puppies tied up in a burlap bag > > and tossed out onto the highway near my mountain home. The bag had been > > run over by a car and was soaked in blood. When I opened the bag I found 2 > > dead puppies, 1 with a broken back and a completely flattened pelvis area > > with intestines oozing out and one was not hurt. I killed the one with the > > broken back with my neighbors shotgun by shooting it in the head and buried > > it and the 2 dead puppies in the jungle. > > > > I kept the surviving puppy and named it Batman because of it's long ears > > and pug nose. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  bill!..thank you... > > > > > > have you been able to eliminate all ignorance and all craving? > > > > > >  can you share a personal story  with the group? > > > > > > merle > > > > > > > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > Sorry, but that's the God-awful truth.  Buddhism is all about the relief > > > of suffering. > > > > > > Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Buddhism: > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism > > > > > > > > > Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian subcontinent that > > > encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based > > > on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as > > > the Buddha, meaning "the awakened one". The Buddha lived and taught in > > > the eastern part of the Indian subcontinent sometime between the 6th > > > and 4th centuries BCE.[1] He is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened > > > or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings > > > end their suffering (dukkha) through the elimination of ignorance > > > (avidyÃ) by way of understanding and the seeing of dependent origination > > > (pratëtyasamutpÃda) and the elimination of craving (taá¹â¡hÃ), > > > and thus the attainment of the cessation of all suffering, known as the > > > sublime state of nirvÃà â a.[2] > > > > > > I've highlighted the parts to which I want to draw your attention that > > > pertain to the question at hand. > > > > > > And before someone jumps all over me on this I want to point out that > > > this is BUDDHISM, not zen. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > àrubbish..you can dissolve into the now.. > > > > > > > > life is suffering..nothing to do with attachments.. > > > > > > > > like to see you bill when you have a physical aliment.. > > > > > > > > sure you can whisk it away for a moment or two..try mental > > > > suffering...that cannot be dissolvedà> > > > > > > > the promise of buddhism is release from suffering.. > > > > > > > > right..maybe > > > > > > > > yes it is a way of viewing suffering however you cannot escape it.. > > > > > > > > rather you accept it > > > > > > > > so how come buddhist monks are the first to set fire to themselves when > > > > they see injustices done? > > > > > > > > àthat would be mega suffering and don't tell me they don't suffer as > > > > the flames engulf them > > > > > > > > have you ever truly suffered bill?.. or seen loved ones suffering? > > > > > > > > àas you eat your stir fried chicken do you not realise the suffering > > > > that was impose on this creature that you might live and live to suffer? > > > > > > > > acceptance is the key word in my books > > > > > > > > àacceptance, àcompassion and universal love > > > > > > > > àif that is not buddhism then well i'll be blown over by a stick > > > > > > > > àmerle > > > > > > > > > > > > à> > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > Suffering can be entirely eliminated and William is right that this is > > > > the promise of Buddhism. > > > > > > > > This is Buddhism 101: > > > > > > > > - Life is suffering > > > > - Suffering is caused by attachments > > > > - Attachments are caused by/enabled by identification with your self > > > > - The self is illusory > > > > > > > > So, like a big house of cards when you dissolve the illusion of self > > > > you take away the anchor for attachments causing them to fall away > > > > which eliminates suffering. > > > > > > > > And how do you come to recognize the self as illusory? My suggestion is > > > > you do zazen (zen meditation) staring with counting your breaths. When > > > > you stop your intellect from producing illusions (and most especially > > > > the illusion of self) you experience Buddha Nature. > > > > > > > > And then Voila! Just This! > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester merlewiitpom@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my understanding is suffering cannot be eliminated..how the hell can > > > > > that come about..the very nature of life is suffering...Ãâà> > > > > point to me who does not what does not..be it animal mineral or > > > > > vegetable.. > > > > > the notion of happy happy is absurd.. > > > > > we can come to terms with suffering > > > > > Ãâàwe can embrace and realise that compassion and eternal > > > > > universal love can lift us from suffering and soar us high above the > > > > > treetops to the heavens above just as the eagle flies we too can fly.. > > > > > > > > > > merle > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàsome strawberries are sour i have noted in my many years of > > > > > eating strawberries...this i refer to as the "chop suey" of > > > > > life...sweet and sour... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > And yet you are the one who started this conversation.ÃâàIt > > > > > has been my understanding that the primaryÃâàmessage of > > > > > Buddhism was addressing suffering.ÃâàWhat it is and how to > > > > > stop it. The Buddha was not searching or teaching ways to survive > > > > > crises but to end suffering.ÃâàI can agree that survivability > > > > > might be enhanced by being fully in the moment but I see no certainty > > > > > of it. In my readings of Zen the moment of Death is often addressed > > > > > with an awareness and often a smile. The strawberry is so > > > > > sweet.Ãâàsuey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Joe desert_woodworker@ > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 4:27:50 PM > > > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Someone Else's Opinion on What is Real and What is > > > > > Not... > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > Hi, William, > > > > > > > > > > The crisis is and was the one you raised earlier, about killing some > > > > > beast or other. Thought and pondering at that scene would be > > > > > inexcusable, while acting in accord with need, informed by your > > > > > intimacy and full presence and awareness of conditions, would give > > > > > you an opening to hunt another day. > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to practice, practice enables habits to drop, so we can > > > > > be present fully. You can still use what you've learned, but you > > > > > won't be bound by it. That is all. > > > > > > > > > > And that is the point. I won't engage in useless historicizing, not > > > > > in a Zen discussion forum, anyway. If we're not already clear about > > > > > how practice works, then the next step is clear: practice. There may > > > > > be pointers on it here at the Forum. A real teacher face to face is > > > > > the best teacher though, many here would agree. > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > Email wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You've modified your original position from a statement of our > > > > > > genetic > > > > > inheritance to surviving a crisis. That quite a bit different. > > > > > However from your current position are you saying that the people who > > > > > died from the bombings in Boston were "burdened and unable to act > > > > > spontaneously" while those who survived were "acting spontaneously > > > > > and were unburdened"? Or is there some other type if crisis? > > > > > > If two people, one who was unburdened and acting spontaneously and > > > > > > had never encountered a tiger in the wild and the other who hunted > > > > > > tigers daily, were to suddenly be faced with one, who would survive > > > > > > this crisis? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
