It says "after all we can do," not "after all we do." That's not to say we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he hardly notices. It is certainly nothing to go to the bishop about, at least that's what he thinks. He says to himself at first, "Boy, that was a very dumb thing to do." The doorbell rings. He answers the door. Then after he takes care of that the telephone rings. He takes care of that. Soon he decides to balance his checkbook. After a while he figures he'll watch a little television. Finally he may or may not remember to pray, another sin in and of itself. He forgets he hasn't confessed the sin of which he was guilty. Now what? What about many more than one like that? Finally he dies. Oops? After all he could have done?



At 12:57 AM 07/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:

At 04:40 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote:
I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take?

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At 04:41 PM 7/12/03 -0800, John W. Redelfs wrote:
My list would be much shorter:

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At 05:54 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote:
I can't say I've met all your list either. If I can't say I've met all mine or all yours it looks like Jesus may have pity on me or I won't make it either.

WADR, I think that anyone who thinks there is a "list" of things they are supposed to do to accomplish this is missing the point.

"For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23)

At 11:53 PM 7/12/03 -0400, Noel B wrote:
I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the
way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the
prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but
one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our
heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to
diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the

Thou hast said well.

I will go further and say that anyone who sets "having my calling and election made sure" as a goal is missing the point. IMO, God wants us to love Him and to do what He tells us to do ***because we love Him***. If we have any other motivation as our primary motivation, we are off-track, and perhaps are "looking beyond the mark" as did the ancient Jews.

Some of the greatest spiritual experiences I have had came when I was not seeking any spiritual experience, in fact, some of them came when I was feeling like an utter failure and had no idea how to proceed. God wants us to love Him, trust Him, and follow Him, period. If we do that, we are likely to be pleasantly surprised when some of these things happen to us.

(And yes, I am writing many of these things as much to myself as to anyone else.)

FWIW, it has occurred to me that receiving a promise of eternal life from God may not be so much a "reward" for having lived a "perfect" life and accomplished completely everything on some checklist as perhaps God saying to that person "I trust you. You are still human and are still going to make mistakes in trying to do My will, but I know your heart, and I know that you are trying your best to serve me, so don't be afraid to do the things you think you should because you might make mistakes: they won't be fatal mistakes."

My 2「 (probably not worth that much) . . .

--Ronn! :)

I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
I never dreamed that I would see the last.
        --Dr. Jerry Pournelle

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