George Cobabe wrote: > > I suspect we shall soon be kicked off for daring to discuss this, but > what > the hey. > > Where in 131 does it say this? I read Celestial Glory, not the > Celestial > Kingdom.
In the prior post, I used "kingdom" and "glory" interchangibly. Perhaps there is a difference...that might be a topic in and of itself. Even so, there is a reference to kingdoms, as will be noted in a moment. > However in 132:23-24 it talks about receiving and living with God and > that > this living with God is what exaltation is defined as. Living with God > should not be construed as damnation, as you have ably pointed out that > it > may represent. But in D&C 131, it says over in verse 4, referencing those who do not enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, "He may enter into the other [meaning one of the lower heavens or degrees], but that is the end of his kingdom: *he cannot have an increase*." That strongly suggests to me an inability to progress, or at a very minimum, the inability to have infinite might or dominion. This is despite the fact that we're still speaking of the celestial heavens--not of the terrestial or telestial worlds. Moreover, D&C 132:15-16 refer to those who marry outside of the new and everlasting covenant as being "appointed angels...ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory." By contrast, verses 19-20, speaking to those who marry in the covenant, "shall pass by the angels...to their exaltation and glory in all things...which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then they shall be gods...because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." It would seem like the difference between the two states would be considerable. Again, this is despite the fact that in all of this we've never left the celestial rhelm. > Why would the atonement not make up for any deficiencies that are > present in > a person worthy to attain to the Celestial Kingdom? I wish I could say I had an answer here. It would seem like your question is directed squarely at D&C 131:4 and 132:15-16--otherwise, the persons referenced there should have "had an increase." But clearly they do not. The only other thing I can think to suggest--and the chapter and verse escapes me--is that the atonement applies to all of mankind in greater or lesser degrees, except to those who are sons of perdition. Were it not for the atonement, it would be impossible for even those judged to be telestial to receive immortality and this lowest degree of glory. The atonement apparently works to a greater degree to people judged to be terrestrial, and greater still to those who are in the lower celestial rhelms. But apparently it works to the greatest extent possible to those assigned to the highest degree of the celestial heavens. One final thought: I could be wrong, but it was by understanding that D&C 132:24 had to be taken in the larger context of keeping all of his commandments, including the one pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. For in D&C 132:21, we read, "Verily...I say unto you, except ye abide my law, ye cannot attain to this glory." Finally, the commandment in D&C 132:24 is, "Receive ye, therefore my law." I agree with you that the atonement is tied deeply into this because it is impossible to keep all of his commandments at all times. The ultimate question, which goes well beyond the scope of eternal marriage, is to what extent are we willing to keep His commandments. We may, for example, enter into the eternal covenant of marriage, but seriously transgress later. Or we may choose to avoid entering into the covenant in the first place. For that matter, we may choose not to receive the priesthood or even be baptised. Or we may do all of these things for the sole purpose of outward appearance, but not really be willing to keep the commandments in our hearts. In all of these instances, our eternal standing is likely to be called into question. The bottom line is that while the question of exaltation may turn on our willingness to enter into the eternal covenant of marriage--a specific commandment--it turns most of all upon our willingness to keep ALL of his commandments and in so doing, to then allow the atonement (through the process of repentance) to take full effect in our lives. All the best, /Sandy/ -- The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spring Hill, Tennessee ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^----------------------------------------------------------------