> It would be great to start something like a Zope3 CMS interest group up, 
> to pool all our CMS experience - start collecting requirements, etc.  
> Seems like a mighty large task, though :-) 
I've proposed that a couple of times already. There are two problems in real 
1) "Somebody" has to take care of managing the project. We need at least a web 
page and a first draft of what we want to accomplish. My idea always was to 
start with a feature matrix of the current Zope-based and competing systems 
and then add a wish list of things that we need for Zope 3, based on the 
existing products' implementations. 
2) If politics take over, things will quickly fall apart. I for my part would 
be happy to work together with people who are currently using Plone, but I'd 
not want to work on a Plone 3. So the effort should aim at the common grounds 
all the CMS have, not on the individual philosophies that drive the different 
projects ... 
> I'd like to at least have a session on this topic at Europython. 
Unfortunately I probably won't be there this year. 
> I know it's said to be slow, but Eclipse has some pretty major momentum 
> behind it... has anyone round here looked at it in detail?  I guess it 
> requires you to write loads of Java to produce new plugins :-( 
Well, it is becoming some kind of standard. But my personal feeling is that 
we'd need something fresh that is focussed on Zope. That would make things 
easier. Whenever I use an IDE that "also talks Python" I am distracted by all 
the stuff that I'll never really need ... 
Eclipse can be used as a platform though (and I'm sure one can use Jython a 
lot to make things easier for Pythonists). I personally prefer Qt, but that's 
not free on Windows, so the target group is a bit more limited than with using 
a Java-based solution. 
> I disagree that performance is a problem in Zope 2.  With a combination 
> of profiling to eliminate bottlenecks, ZEO, and Squid, Zope hums along  
> beautifully.  We are consulting for a company that is in the process of  
> replacing their Java front-end with Zope.  They have huge amounts of  
> traffic, and are impressed with Zope's performance compared with their  
> comparable Java system. 
I've heard that a couple of times. But let's face it: Of course you can get 
Zope to deliver partly dynamic pages at high speed and if you use caching you 
can deliver pages at wire speed, but it will not be nearly as fast as a 
solution using Java or .NET/C# if we are talking about a lot of two-way 
traffic and CPU-intensive tasks in the back end, e.g. an online shopping mall, 
a booking system, or a groupware. 
> P.S. I don't agree with your pessimistic assessment of CMF, or Plone.  
> They're both good at what they do. 
I agree with you that Plone is quite impressive as it is now, but nobody will 
ever convince me that the CMF => Plone way was the right way to go ... Well, 
different people, different tastes ;-) 
iuveno AG 
Joachim Werner 
Wittelsbacherstr. 23b 
90475 Nürnberg 
Tel.: +49 (0) 911/ 9 88 39 84 

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