I don't think "the ZTK" as defined by the historical constraints under 
discussion here has much attraction for a large number of folks who are 
otherwise willing to put effort into maintaining Zope packages.

For these folks, any reduction in number of dependencies and test maintenance 
is a net win, because they just don't use the stuff they throw out, and they 
don't have any Grok or legacy Zope3 apps in production to maintain that uses 
this stuff either.

So maybe these folks should come up with their own "KGS" for whatever they need 
as a subset of "the ZTK".  In particular, maybe Zope2 should just be based on 
this subset.

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Wichert Akkerman wrote:
>> On 12/29/09 16:25 , Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>> Earlier this year we decided to refocus our efforts on the ZTK, a
>>> leaner, meaner Zope 3 with a different focus, which has code that we
>>> really use, no UI, and with cleaner dependencies.
>> I feel a disconnect here. As I see it the ZTK is not a 'leaner, meaner 
>> Zope 3'. Zope 3 is a modular application framework, while the ZTK is a 
>> small framework that can be used to build applications or applications 
>> frameworks. ZTK has no history since it never existed before (and still 
>> is only vapourware since it has no releases nor a release manager), so 
>> it does not have any backwards compatibility to worry about.
> 
> The sense of irony of you feeling a disconnect is rather strong here. I 
> was the one who proposed the ZTK in the first place, remember?
> 
>> It seems that you want to have a 'ZTK+' which aims to be backwards 
>> compatible with Zope 3 but is somehow not Zope 3 itself. That is 
>> something that not everybody appears to be interested in judging by the 
>> lack of progress on Zope 3 itself, but if you want to pursue that I do 
>> not see any reason for you not to do that. But it should separate from 
>> the ZTK.
> 
> I'm glad the message of what the ZTK is that I tried to spread so hard 
> has arrived so well.
> 
> The ZTK wants to reduce responsibilities. One of the responsibilities 
> you gain when you want to reduce responsibilities is to do this responsibly.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martijn
> 
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