Agreed. Yet, as far as I can tell, Novamente/OCP aren't designed to allow this
autopoiesis to emerge. Although some emergence is implicit in the design, there
is not a clear boundary between the internal organization and the external
environment. For example, a truly autopoietic system would have to learn
(self-organize) all language, yet Novamente/OCP will take advantage of external
NLP modules.
If you agree with this, then in what sense do you consider autopoiesis to be an
important concept?
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think autopoiesis is an important concept, which has been underappreciated in
AI because its original advocates (Varela especially) tied it in with
anti-computationalism
Varela liked to contrast autopoietic systems with computational ones
OTOH, I think of autopoiesis as a emergent property that computational systems
are capable of giving rise to...
-- Ben G
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Terren Suydam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yeah, that book is really good. Bohm was one of the great ones.
Luhmann may have been the first to seriously suggest/defend the idea that
social systems are not just concepts but real ontological entities. Luhmann
took Maturana/Verala's autopoieisis and extended that to social systems.
Which leads nicely into a question I've been meaning to ask... you're the only
AI researcher I'm aware of (in the US anyway) that has talked about
autopoieisis. I wonder what your thoughts are about it? To what extent has
that influenced your philosphy? Not looking for an essay here, but I'd be
interested in your brief reflections on it.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Ben Goertzel
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [agi] open or closed source for AGI project?
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 10:43 AM
Bohm: Yes ... a great book, though at the time I read it, I'd already
encountered most of the same ideas elsewhere...
Luhmann: nope, never encountered his work...
ben
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Terren Suydam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Ben,
I wonder if you've read Bohm's Thought as a System, or if you've been
influenced by Niklas Luhmann on any level.
Terren
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is a sense in which social groups are "mindplexes": they have
mind-ness on the collective level, as well as on the individual level.
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
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"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first
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Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first
overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson
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