All reasonable, as is Steve's suggestion that socially stable options for identification
can be dynamic/emergent (e.g. populism's various forms). But I'd argue that one cannot
build one's own identity/narrative in a quiet space ... hedging a bit on what
"quiet" might mean. This article was interesting:
http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2023/10/why-i-dont-have-pronouns-in-my-bio/
"Ironically, my experience of interpellation might itself reflect how I am
interpellated. Us WEIRD people are individualists, and we’re individualists because
social forces make us this kind of being. If I weren’t interpellated as an individualist,
I probably wouldn’t feel uncomfortable at being interpellated as the kind of subject I
am. Interpellation as an individualist is a kind of ironic interpellation: it’s
inherently unstable insofar as it leaves the interpellation person unhappy with their
interpellation on the grounds that it is interpellation. Nevertheless, my discomfort is
real."
The idea that _one_ might be able to settle on a narrative somewhat isolated from the
ambient goo indicates a conclusion embedded in the premise of individualism. Rather, I'd
argue there is no such thing as an individual. There is no self to "dissolve"
and any narrative construct that seems to be an individual is, at least, fraught with
loopy causation or, at worst, incoherent. So while I like the idea that some individuals
are more robust against modal identification, it relies on a flimsy approximation to the
real situation.
With internet, we _are_ no longer what we would be without internet.
Counterfactuals are useful, but only actionable in the most antisceptic
environments (e.g. randomized controlled trials)..
On 10/4/23 07:57, Marcus Daniels wrote:
If there were no internet, the MAGA, QANON and the anti-WHO/UN folks would find
it harder to maintain a narrative. With social media they can find people to
mirror the craziest ideas and leaders to reveal them. Musk says the same is
true on the left and woke.
Parochialism is another way that ungrounded beliefs find comfort. Members
protect their bubble enforcing norms and being antagonistic to people that are
different. Typically in spatial vicinities.
In both cases, participants adopt a group story instead of building their own.
If they were required to build their own story in a quiet space, they might
learn to think and be less reliant on a social role to maintain self esteem.
Enforcing this could be done with a DMZ, or it could be done with some
indoctrination about the risks of groupthink and the benefits of stoicism and
scientism.
On Oct 4, 2023, at 6:52 AM, glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, there is no such thing as a "mind virus". It's a bad metaphor. But
Steve's right that we're (at least) modal in our non-rationality, flipping this way and
that according to whatever criticality presents itself. The 09A concept of culling seems
to me similar to Musk's elitism ... a Nietzschean conceit.
On 10/3/23 09:23, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I realized I kind of agree with Musk about the benefits of more isolation.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1625732016896458755
However, national boundaries are not the right cutoff. Any community or cult
is the potential nucleation of a mind virus.
I expect his advocacy above is about creating chaos so that people such as
himself are the only ones that have the resources to influence governments.
A particularly virulent mind virus (like white supremacy, or 09A) could cross
national boundaries and not be impeded by law enforcement.
What does the world look like if P% of the population has broad resistance to
mind viruses and (100-P)% does not?
If P is <= 10, maybe better to fan the flames of crazy and let the chips fall
where they may. Perhaps that is how Musk sees it.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2023 6:37 AM
To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com>
Subject: [FRIAM] cults
It's been awhile since I've run across a new-to-me cult. But 09A certainly
qualifies as a meaty one:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/28/new-york-satanic-cult-764-fbi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2023.2195065
I can't reconcile the apparent contradiction between fascism and individuality.
I guess the closest some analysts come is to suggest that they're only aligning
with the fascists, for now, to bring about the end of the current aeon and the
colonization of the galaxy.
I guess it reminds me of the "no enemies to the [right|left]" rhetoric:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/30/conservative-christopher-rufo-florida-twitter-debate
But otherwise, O9A's ... "beliefs and structure" seem incoherent enough to write them off
as just too stupid to care about. However one author nailed it in saying that there are plenty of
both impressionable and antisocial people using the internet, susceptible to the
"sinister" allure, to cause real damage.
--
glen
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