I'm surprised Stuart Kauffman isn't in there. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 5:31 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > I'm too lazy to run a kmeans now. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 13, 2023, at 12:06 PM, glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > You might want to check the Gurometer. Lex has an entry: > > > > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing > > > > While Lex's scores are relatively low compared to some of the wackos on > the list, we are known by association. And many of Lex's guests score > relatively high. > > > >> On 11/13/23 10:08, Steve Smith wrote: > >> It seems (maybe only to me?) that "will" is what defines the > intersection of memory and imagination? The free-will-less-ness-ers among > us (ala Sopolsky < > https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/24/determined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions>) > may find this an entirely specious thing to consider or discuss (though > without free will, what means "specious" or "discuss" or "consider" sans > free-will?). > >> I recently discovered Lex Fridman's podcasts < > https://lexfridman.com/podcast/> and was quite surprised by several > things (albeit with very limited sampling... all of his most recent > interview with Musk and a bit of his interview with Isaacson and about half > of the Harari one): I don't significantly disagree with the general > mistrust of Musk in his Autistic-ish style and affect, but I'd say that Lex > brings out the best in him, showing him to be capable of thoughtful and > even empathetic-ish observations. As I understand it (from my reading of > Isaacson's biography of Musk) brother Kimball may also be a significantly > similar "regulating influence" on Elon. Grimes maybe, maybe not. The > other mothers of his children, same-same... probably each and all of them > for a period of time or within certain frameworks. And again, same with > the children... though maybe projection on my part having been moderately > well-regulated in several modes by my own children during each of their > phases (right up to their current middle-agedness). > >> As an aside, Fridman's other interviews also all sound potentially > fascinating... though I cringe at the fact/thought of interviews with > Netanyahu, KanYE, Kushner, Rogan... the commentary I've read around > those interviews tends to skew toward "how could you normalize (amplify?) > those A**holes by even giving them the time of the day???!!!?". Lex's > interviews are definitely long-form (1-2 hours) compared to today's > tik-tok/ad-jingle/bumper-sticker/snark-pith calibrated sound-bitery. I > find myself avoiding them for this reason (not wanting to commit to > listening past some of my own prejudices long enough to hear what they are > really about?) but recognize (and have already begun to practice) that as > with long-form written journalism, I can take it in bits, like I might eat > a rich holiday meal... not try to gulp it down quickly in one sitting like > a TV-dinner (for you X-ers, "Hot-Pocket", and Millenials == "??") for the > mind. > >> My recent fascination with Deacon's "Teleodynamics", Jeff Hawkins' take > on the structure/function of the neocortex and Ian McGilchrist's updated > take on brain bicameralism (Master and Emissary < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary>) feeds into > this question of the intersection of memory and imagination and the > implications of Transformer Models and other Generative Models in general. > My direct experience with GPT-4 and DALL-E is significant (many 10s of > hours of engagement) but still a drop in the bucket. There are times when > I feel that all I've done is engaged with an incredibly high-dimensional > french-curve/bezier spline and thereby been able to smoothly > interpolate/extrapolate a handful of interesting (to me) data points into > what feels like a powerful elaboration of what is implied by said curve-fit > in the past (unknown knowns?) and future (unknown unknowns)? When I'm > not totally enraptured by the (apparent?) novelty (relative to my > expectations/predictions) of it's responses I'm generally disappointed at > it's limited creativity... and left puzzling over the question of > "novelty vs creativity". > >> Bumble, > >> - Steve > >>> On 11/13/23 10:27 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>> It seems to me that neither Musk and Thiel are interested in the > unknown. They are interested in doing things they can already imagine. > For Musk I thought that was because it is how he raises money. Now I > think he is not imagining consciousness in a, say, a transporter pattern > buffer, he imagines life on the Enterprise bridge in his body. Rockets > are comparatively science fictiony for people that can't imagine transport > without a car, so he gets some points for that. > >>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 10:11 AM, glen<geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> There's an interesting parallel between the Stross and Gellman > pieces: Stross both laments and implicitly appreciates the bureaucracy of > getting a book published, where Thiel's aggrieved by the bureaucracy of > societal evolution. > >>>> > >>>> It reminds me of the engineering-vs-biology dichotomy (yes, false, > like all of them) I came to appreciate after being exposed to enough > biomimetics (to kill a horse). Some of us see the world and think about how > to change it, build a better world ... or perhaps destroy the world, > whatever floats your inner engineer. And some of us see the world and are > awestruck, hypnotized, baffled by its qualities (whether beautiful or > horrifying). It's easy to give the latter a pass and denigrate the former > when confronted with, say, butterflies or the Grand Canyon. And it's easy > to give the former a pass when confronted with poverty and war. > >>>> > >>>> But the next time you're at the DMV or arguing with some poor sucker > manning the phones at the IRS, it can be useful to remember the falseness > of the dichtomy. Similarly, when all you want to do is sleep under the > stars and those damned gnats keep homing into your ears, it can be useful > to think like an engineer. > >>>> > >>>> Policy and science fiction aren't that far apart. > >>>> > >>>>> On 11/10/23 13:46, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>>>> original.png > >>>>> Peter Thiel Is Taking a Break From Democracy< > https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share > > > >>>>> On 11/10/23 11:26, Roger Critchlow wrote: > >>>>> Text of Charlie Stross' talk to Next Frontiers Applied Fiction Day > in Stuttgart on Friday November 10th, 2023, concerning where the > techno-industrial elite found their horrible philosophies/secular religions. > >>>>> > https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2023/11/dont-create-the-torment-nexus.html > >>>> -- > > > > > > -- > > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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