Were you responding to my post, Eric? Probably not. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 6:43 PM David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu> wrote: > Well in that case, definitely look up the interview he did with Sara > Walker and Lee Cronin. > > I will not comment further. > > Eric > > > > On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:57 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > > > On 11/13/23 12:06 PM, glen wrote: > > You might want to check the Gurometer. Lex has an entry: > > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing > > While Lex's scores are relatively low compared to some of the wackos on > the list, we are known by association. And many of Lex's guests score > relatively high. > > Fascinating resource, thanks! You are a veritable font (fount) of things > like this that I should probably be able to find for myself. > > I had to look a little to find a key to the columns of the table, I don't > know if this is the preferred or only one, but it seemed close enough to be > useful for my purposes: > > https://techhenzy.com/gurometer/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftechhenzy.com%2fgurometer%2f&c=E,1,-jmX3-GnKvHRZ-U6g3sLfGsk8ntKDTZ0snin2zifY--Hno29Qx92h9fhySz8IXtuihWQCxiEVogT6296DEPPb4qsdNHWD6ZIX5ul4F-34Wihzhuu&typo=1> > > I haven't listened to enough of Lex's podcasts (did I mention 1-2 hours > each?!) to be able to evaluate what his "coupling" is with his guests... > even without the GuruMeter I felt that theme ("known by association") from > the more prominent/recent interviewees he has engaged... but my contingent > judgement of the *content* and *style* of the interviews counterbalanced > that almost to an extreme. Which is why I brought it up here. > > Implicit but likely opaque/arcane to your own references to community > (self) policing and ?agonism?, I feel (with limited experience so far) that > Fridman may well provide a regulating role within some community (of > Galaxy-Brain Gurus?)... > > I doubt I will get the 'round t'uits but it seems like there is a tensor > product to be explored among these folks and their various interactions > with one another... something interesting might emerge? Maybe this only > occurs to me because Lex is more of a coupling agent than a primary source > of any ideas/theories/positions from what I've seen so far. I haven't > investigated the GuruMeter guys enough to understand their methods but I > take it for granted they are not unserious in this work. > > > > On 11/13/23 10:08, Steve Smith wrote: > > It seems (maybe only to me?) that "will" is what defines the intersection > of memory and imagination? The free-will-less-ness-ers among us (ala > Sopolsky > <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/24/determined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions> > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fbooks%2f2023%2foct%2f24%2fdetermined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions&c=E,1,91wHpfNIkmXC-CnGi3PazdL_hQlw2NlNpCoVT3nJCuot5r9OAZsB0usPuLlH6_6rlBoDorx2bLYVT55_T9jETx_-4wilrXWAjG-3MNgonMWE9w,,&typo=1>) > may find this an entirely specious thing to consider or discuss (though > without free will, what means "specious" or "discuss" or "consider" sans > free-will?). > > I recently discovered Lex Fridman's podcasts > <https://lexfridman.com/podcast/> > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flexfridman.com%2fpodcast%2f&c=E,1,QWrnSg3KQcihreIAIaA74In11b90OwQV4DbIgelWBXYN4Ud1PK0WvNTlNakcIB0zdfgEMx2X6t8b-1_TPyUhzXpNMlaFz3z4sKIKjXliwZAs&typo=1> > and was quite surprised by several things (albeit with very limited > sampling... all of his most recent interview with Musk and a bit of his > interview with Isaacson and about half of the Harari one): I don't > significantly disagree with the general mistrust of Musk in his > Autistic-ish style and affect, but I'd say that Lex brings out the best in > him, showing him to be capable of thoughtful and even empathetic-ish > observations. As I understand it (from my reading of Isaacson's biography > of Musk) brother Kimball may also be a significantly similar "regulating > influence" on Elon. Grimes maybe, maybe not. The other mothers of his > children, same-same... probably each and all of them for a period of time > or within certain frameworks. And again, same with the children... though > maybe projection on my part having been moderately well-regulated in > several modes by my own children during each of their phases (right up to > their current middle-agedness). > > As an aside, Fridman's other interviews also all sound potentially > fascinating... though I cringe at the fact/thought of interviews with > Netanyahu, KanYE, Kushner, Rogan... the commentary I've read around > those interviews tends to skew toward "how could you normalize (amplify?) > those A**holes by even giving them the time of the day???!!!?". Lex's > interviews are definitely long-form (1-2 hours) compared to today's > tik-tok/ad-jingle/bumper-sticker/snark-pith calibrated sound-bitery. I > find myself avoiding them for this reason (not wanting to commit to > listening past some of my own prejudices long enough to hear what they are > really about?) but recognize (and have already begun to practice) that as > with long-form written journalism, I can take it in bits, like I might eat > a rich holiday meal... not try to gulp it down quickly in one sitting like > a TV-dinner (for you X-ers, "Hot-Pocket", and Millenials == "??") for the > mind. > > My recent fascination with Deacon's "Teleodynamics", Jeff Hawkins' take on > the structure/function of the neocortex and Ian McGilchrist's updated take > on brain bicameralism (Master and Emissary > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary>) feeds into > this question of the intersection of memory and imagination and the > implications of Transformer Models and other Generative Models in > general. My direct experience with GPT-4 and DALL-E is significant (many > 10s of hours of engagement) but still a drop in the bucket. There are > times when I feel that all I've done is engaged with an incredibly > high-dimensional french-curve/bezier spline and thereby been able to > smoothly interpolate/extrapolate a handful of interesting (to me) data > points into what feels like a powerful elaboration of what is implied by > said curve-fit in the past (unknown knowns?) and future (unknown > unknowns)? When I'm not totally enraptured by the (apparent?) novelty > (relative to my expectations/predictions) of it's responses I'm generally > disappointed at it's limited creativity... and left puzzling over the > question of "novelty vs creativity". > > Bumble, > > - Steve > > On 11/13/23 10:27 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > It seems to me that neither Musk and Thiel are interested in the unknown. > They are interested in doing things they can already imagine. For Musk I > thought that was because it is how he raises money. Now I think he is not > imagining consciousness in a, say, a transporter pattern buffer, he > imagines life on the Enterprise bridge in his body. Rockets are > comparatively science fictiony for people that can't imagine transport > without a car, so he gets some points for that. > > On Nov 13, 2023, at 10:11 AM, glen<geprope...@gmail.com> > <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There's an interesting parallel between the Stross and Gellman pieces: > Stross both laments and implicitly appreciates the bureaucracy of getting a > book published, where Thiel's aggrieved by the bureaucracy of societal > evolution. > > It reminds me of the engineering-vs-biology dichotomy (yes, false, like > all of them) I came to appreciate after being exposed to enough biomimetics > (to kill a horse). Some of us see the world and think about how to change > it, build a better world ... or perhaps destroy the world, whatever floats > your inner engineer. And some of us see the world and are awestruck, > hypnotized, baffled by its qualities (whether beautiful or horrifying). > It's easy to give the latter a pass and denigrate the former when > confronted with, say, butterflies or the Grand Canyon. And it's easy to > give the former a pass when confronted with poverty and war. > > But the next time you're at the DMV or arguing with some poor sucker > manning the phones at the IRS, it can be useful to remember the falseness > of the dichtomy. Similarly, when all you want to do is sleep under the > stars and those damned gnats keep homing into your ears, it can be useful > to think like an engineer. > > Policy and science fiction aren't that far apart. > > On 11/10/23 13:46, Marcus Daniels wrote: > original.png > Peter Thiel Is Taking a Break From Democracy > <https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share> > <https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share> > On 11/10/23 11:26, Roger Critchlow wrote: > Text of Charlie Stross' talk to Next Frontiers Applied Fiction Day in > Stuttgart on Friday November 10th, 2023, concerning where the > techno-industrial elite found their horrible philosophies/secular > religions. > > https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2023/11/dont-create-the-torment-nexus.html > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.antipope.org%2fcharlie%2fblog-static%2f2023%2f11%2fdont-create-the-torment-nexus.html&c=E,1,npJ9AGeEQaUqgDJWMftMsnL-pymj_8pksBePVrbQ_gdF_v3fw88D4pk5N0nHIICGXPhItn57qErQ9u7HSkuvSqtpYRapdSTtpENo508PmwuMPlc7ou5f6pLrIPnj&typo=1> > > -- > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,VmQPczTgJWLGrCVJ4qHL-qq9paoN4JcTFzVAsuf7IJHbrhkR6zW5pSERobMorZqUAXrgbGUTLps2MR5nCq7ihk3EVVOlqvCGMn8zsvRcQISAkA,,&typo=1 > to (un)subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_VVGsncoh104n2MO0myc4TeEkRiRZ1eP5gKEuB2UmyyIt5GKC6vhFewIohc3YLhwZaJjecNrz3Dv1hsWjtrda7194vP9nHSB50ZluhrazA,,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,RuX5h2dlc249SaoPsQMZ9j6lr5J_vi1hMpTtB_8O4fRpAz82TFTG82YcKMcP6KLlas4FLvS-NbeAwLFcA6TPdLo3C5HIiGURZdx5IPR7&typo=1 > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Y1gUOK-RX9A4j0Pc6ER5S5LQy9gOcmNWmGGj-SGJueksHJKL8hIYWiJhy5Kt62OItFAzFfEGT13LFn-c6_2MffslD5roKdfoJsUFQkmmJw,,&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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