I actually saw your post second, Frank, but had to smile when I did. Benefits/defects of reading emails in reverse chronological.
Eric > On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:31 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Were you responding to my post, Eric? Probably not. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 6:43 PM David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu > <mailto:desm...@santafe.edu>> wrote: >> Well in that case, definitely look up the interview he did with Sara Walker >> and Lee Cronin. >> >> I will not comment further. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:57 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com >>> <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/13/23 12:06 PM, glen wrote: >>>> You might want to check the Gurometer. Lex has an entry: >>>> >>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> >>>> While Lex's scores are relatively low compared to some of the wackos on >>>> the list, we are known by association. And many of Lex's guests score >>>> relatively high. >>> Fascinating resource, thanks! You are a veritable font (fount) of things >>> like this that I should probably be able to find for myself. >>> >>> I had to look a little to find a key to the columns of the table, I don't >>> know if this is the preferred or only one, but it seemed close enough to be >>> useful for my purposes: >>> >>> https://techhenzy.com/gurometer/ >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftechhenzy.com%2fgurometer%2f&c=E,1,-jmX3-GnKvHRZ-U6g3sLfGsk8ntKDTZ0snin2zifY--Hno29Qx92h9fhySz8IXtuihWQCxiEVogT6296DEPPb4qsdNHWD6ZIX5ul4F-34Wihzhuu&typo=1> >>> I haven't listened to enough of Lex's podcasts (did I mention 1-2 hours >>> each?!) to be able to evaluate what his "coupling" is with his guests... >>> even without the GuruMeter I felt that theme ("known by association") from >>> the more prominent/recent interviewees he has engaged... but my contingent >>> judgement of the *content* and *style* of the interviews counterbalanced >>> that almost to an extreme. Which is why I brought it up here. >>> >>> Implicit but likely opaque/arcane to your own references to community >>> (self) policing and ?agonism?, I feel (with limited experience so far) that >>> Fridman may well provide a regulating role within some community (of >>> Galaxy-Brain Gurus?)... >>> >>> I doubt I will get the 'round t'uits but it seems like there is a tensor >>> product to be explored among these folks and their various interactions >>> with one another... something interesting might emerge? Maybe this only >>> occurs to me because Lex is more of a coupling agent than a primary source >>> of any ideas/theories/positions from what I've seen so far. I haven't >>> investigated the GuruMeter guys enough to understand their methods but I >>> take it for granted they are not unserious in this work. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On 11/13/23 10:08, Steve Smith wrote: >>>>> It seems (maybe only to me?) that "will" is what defines the intersection >>>>> of memory and imagination? The free-will-less-ness-ers among us (ala >>>>> Sopolsky >>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/24/determined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions> >>>>> >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fbooks%2f2023%2foct%2f24%2fdetermined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions&c=E,1,91wHpfNIkmXC-CnGi3PazdL_hQlw2NlNpCoVT3nJCuot5r9OAZsB0usPuLlH6_6rlBoDorx2bLYVT55_T9jETx_-4wilrXWAjG-3MNgonMWE9w,,&typo=1>) >>>>> may find this an entirely specious thing to consider or discuss (though >>>>> without free will, what means "specious" or "discuss" or "consider" sans >>>>> free-will?). >>>>> >>>>> I recently discovered Lex Fridman's podcasts >>>>> <https://lexfridman.com/podcast/> >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flexfridman.com%2fpodcast%2f&c=E,1,QWrnSg3KQcihreIAIaA74In11b90OwQV4DbIgelWBXYN4Ud1PK0WvNTlNakcIB0zdfgEMx2X6t8b-1_TPyUhzXpNMlaFz3z4sKIKjXliwZAs&typo=1> >>>>> and was quite surprised by several things (albeit with very limited >>>>> sampling... all of his most recent interview with Musk and a bit of his >>>>> interview with Isaacson and about half of the Harari one): I don't >>>>> significantly disagree with the general mistrust of Musk in his >>>>> Autistic-ish style and affect, but I'd say that Lex brings out the best >>>>> in him, showing him to be capable of thoughtful and even empathetic-ish >>>>> observations. As I understand it (from my reading of Isaacson's >>>>> biography of Musk) brother Kimball may also be a significantly similar >>>>> "regulating influence" on Elon. Grimes maybe, maybe not. The other >>>>> mothers of his children, same-same... probably each and all of them for a >>>>> period of time or within certain frameworks. And again, same with the >>>>> children... though maybe projection on my part having been moderately >>>>> well-regulated in several modes by my own children during each of their >>>>> phases (right up to their current middle-agedness). >>>>> >>>>> As an aside, Fridman's other interviews also all sound potentially >>>>> fascinating... though I cringe at the fact/thought of interviews with >>>>> Netanyahu, KanYE, Kushner, Rogan... the commentary I've read around >>>>> those interviews tends to skew toward "how could you normalize (amplify?) >>>>> those A**holes by even giving them the time of the day???!!!?". Lex's >>>>> interviews are definitely long-form (1-2 hours) compared to today's >>>>> tik-tok/ad-jingle/bumper-sticker/snark-pith calibrated sound-bitery. I >>>>> find myself avoiding them for this reason (not wanting to commit to >>>>> listening past some of my own prejudices long enough to hear what they >>>>> are really about?) but recognize (and have already begun to practice) >>>>> that as with long-form written journalism, I can take it in bits, like I >>>>> might eat a rich holiday meal... not try to gulp it down quickly in one >>>>> sitting like a TV-dinner (for you X-ers, "Hot-Pocket", and Millenials == >>>>> "??") for the mind. >>>>> >>>>> My recent fascination with Deacon's "Teleodynamics", Jeff Hawkins' take >>>>> on the structure/function of the neocortex and Ian McGilchrist's updated >>>>> take on brain bicameralism (Master and Emissary >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary> >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary>) feeds into >>>>> this question of the intersection of memory and imagination and the >>>>> implications of Transformer Models and other Generative Models in >>>>> general. My direct experience with GPT-4 and DALL-E is significant >>>>> (many 10s of hours of engagement) but still a drop in the bucket. There >>>>> are times when I feel that all I've done is engaged with an incredibly >>>>> high-dimensional french-curve/bezier spline and thereby been able to >>>>> smoothly interpolate/extrapolate a handful of interesting (to me) data >>>>> points into what feels like a powerful elaboration of what is implied by >>>>> said curve-fit in the past (unknown knowns?) and future (unknown >>>>> unknowns)? When I'm not totally enraptured by the (apparent?) novelty >>>>> (relative to my expectations/predictions) of it's responses I'm generally >>>>> disappointed at it's limited creativity... and left puzzling over the >>>>> question of "novelty vs creativity". >>>>> >>>>> Bumble, >>>>> >>>>> - Steve >>>>> >>>>> On 11/13/23 10:27 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>> It seems to me that neither Musk and Thiel are interested in the >>>>>> unknown. They are interested in doing things they can already imagine. >>>>>> For Musk I thought that was because it is how he raises money. Now I >>>>>> think he is not imagining consciousness in a, say, a transporter pattern >>>>>> buffer, he imagines life on the Enterprise bridge in his body. Rockets >>>>>> are comparatively science fictiony for people that can't imagine >>>>>> transport without a car, so he gets some points for that. >>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 10:11 AM, glen<geprope...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's an interesting parallel between the Stross and Gellman pieces: >>>>>>> Stross both laments and implicitly appreciates the bureaucracy of >>>>>>> getting a book published, where Thiel's aggrieved by the bureaucracy of >>>>>>> societal evolution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It reminds me of the engineering-vs-biology dichotomy (yes, false, like >>>>>>> all of them) I came to appreciate after being exposed to enough >>>>>>> biomimetics (to kill a horse). Some of us see the world and think about >>>>>>> how to change it, build a better world ... or perhaps destroy the >>>>>>> world, whatever floats your inner engineer. And some of us see the >>>>>>> world and are awestruck, hypnotized, baffled by its qualities (whether >>>>>>> beautiful or horrifying). It's easy to give the latter a pass and >>>>>>> denigrate the former when confronted with, say, butterflies or the >>>>>>> Grand Canyon. And it's easy to give the former a pass when confronted >>>>>>> with poverty and war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the next time you're at the DMV or arguing with some poor sucker >>>>>>> manning the phones at the IRS, it can be useful to remember the >>>>>>> falseness of the dichtomy. Similarly, when all you want to do is sleep >>>>>>> under the stars and those damned gnats keep homing into your ears, it >>>>>>> can be useful to think like an engineer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Policy and science fiction aren't that far apart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/23 13:46, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>>>> original.png >>>>>>>> Peter Thiel Is Taking a Break From >>>>>>>> Democracy<https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/23 11:26, Roger Critchlow wrote: >>>>>>>> Text of Charlie Stross' talk to Next Frontiers Applied Fiction Day in >>>>>>>> Stuttgart on Friday November 10th, 2023, concerning where the >>>>>>>> techno-industrial elite found their horrible philosophies/secular >>>>>>>> religions. >>>>>>>> https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2023/11/dont-create-the-torment-nexus.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.antipope.org%2fcharlie%2fblog-static%2f2023%2f11%2fdont-create-the-torment-nexus.html&c=E,1,npJ9AGeEQaUqgDJWMftMsnL-pymj_8pksBePVrbQ_gdF_v3fw88D4pk5N0nHIICGXPhItn57qErQ9u7HSkuvSqtpYRapdSTtpENo508PmwuMPlc7ou5f6pLrIPnj&typo=1> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,VmQPczTgJWLGrCVJ4qHL-qq9paoN4JcTFzVAsuf7IJHbrhkR6zW5pSERobMorZqUAXrgbGUTLps2MR5nCq7ihk3EVVOlqvCGMn8zsvRcQISAkA,,&typo=1 >>> to (un)subscribe >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_VVGsncoh104n2MO0myc4TeEkRiRZ1eP5gKEuB2UmyyIt5GKC6vhFewIohc3YLhwZaJjecNrz3Dv1hsWjtrda7194vP9nHSB50ZluhrazA,,&typo=1 >>> FRIAM-COMIC >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,RuX5h2dlc249SaoPsQMZ9j6lr5J_vi1hMpTtB_8O4fRpAz82TFTG82YcKMcP6KLlas4FLvS-NbeAwLFcA6TPdLo3C5HIiGURZdx5IPR7&typo=1 >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Y1gUOK-RX9A4j0Pc6ER5S5LQy9gOcmNWmGGj-SGJueksHJKL8hIYWiJhy5Kt62OItFAzFfEGT13LFn-c6_2MffslD5roKdfoJsUFQkmmJw,,&typo=1 >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,kMx8OUK852r74jbnc9tPpeDYTBn5NOunuesABuZIAwSe7cjiYKVkETHF9QX_ltK8cHY13LNv2dQGYVwAmFhIsB-lQ--XTPX2ZYJJJxXiQXVO&typo=1> >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,UFOuNK-6O2vEn4ryyLyNH_4-P_PlTDkZXIhaN0GQDjCbdZal3lm-lghNfuI26SRylnaN_mtTUboYYCLP8QO7KT7OkaqjS_t2mP2eH_PQTpj4bV3iGoyzX-cSnSqs&typo=1> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,LXKH7aMMFXAcSSV2h97yv4xPzRHVAauImuSpJnk8rVL7TqGGts_YV5BeDTtdSKPzwXE7BeeNDKn5JVCXYZnF5zgXJAn4Fw-t4VaXt20OvBQB7p77&typo=1> >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Sai-05eB9vD1mffFTk_FM7iIk67wPykQ9qLoSLrsKKI3BdDpy6PzbWuN5TSqv6lDXirhpuxPnjkSz8wxOXmGIoKiFb9KUtrFZ4z_De1a2ppJfNU,&typo=1> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,ogdpqxCZIkl57DD9pQULd4o9EpMRBHoROp2Z-XqH8xnMoMt_nXsSaDfjgqs6JSffYrPGyOhecFD5ycnRYrRd0XpUguutXOEUxbpQDpBe&typo=1 > to (un)subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,jfCI1D7o1fRF7IisdW_t5frKLjq3pPa84hHaBW5Kl7oYaXMe8tjIulWCwCPise9D6LLZnPxAWRv-ixoODaY58DPZdqrYQdRzvYk21GLBUGdetQ,,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Q8q9Fg0VA-eosAfX01oZo-coDXdzKQw6JsFiNtHESlQ2tVtUVR3D6Z99ZJy3vdWOMoBqSbSl_l3SkDatHCclNpohX1uozLuqJTB_8w2M5A,,&typo=1 > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,iTU67M-hPtkhIyQLWxP6wCexEz6WLGBsXAYH9TdRAueHX6odpriZVsp-OWD2NyHWKpE6gP_v0ZxZL_v1GKvUFQdqIm23lNBNWiRXLlTkayWhx22w&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
