Thanks, Igor. Reading on the web, it sounds like some CVT's are having
problems. The local mechanic I talked to mentions that NIssan had
extended their warranty. Unfortunately Subaru has not done that.
The reliability issue is indeed a concern. This literally just stopped
working while driving down the highway. In SE Michigan not much of a
problem but out in the boonies, not good.
Regarding installation - what I read is that the CVT is pretty much a
closed system and it is not that difficult to install. But I do have
concerns with a used unit breaking down without warning. And even if it
has a decent warranty I have to pursue that through the local repair shop.
All things considered I'm thinking I'll go with the reman.
Mark
On 5/29/2016 12:52 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
Mark,
I do not know anything about Subaru's CVTs.
I've had somewhat extensive experience and learned about Nissan's CVTs
through the first-hand experience, numerous and very detailed
conversations with mechanics and reading/searching for information
online. I don't how that would apply to your case, - but I suspect the
situation in the industry is very similar for different mass-product
manufacturers.
Despite being in existence (in non-luxury models) for over 10 years,
CVT remains being somewhat under-tested/under-designed in the sense of
reliability and how well it is adapted to various driving conditions.
Nissan has had CVTs in many (most?) models in the past 5-8 (-10?) years.
Nissan had huge number of problems with various models. E.g. Rogue,
that started in 2008, has had huge number of problems that Nissan was
denying for long time. Ultimately, around 2011-2012, because of those
problems, they have extended warranty on the CVT up to 125 Kmiles.
Throughout this period they had a bunch of "patches", "fixes" and
other type of kludges introduced:
1. reprogramming of the firmware for the CVT
2. change in the physical design (or manufacturing/parts, ... - I am
not sure exactly what was changed, as it is not disclosed)
3. addition of an additional cooling system -- if certain symptoms of
overheating are observed.
And with all of those, - they are still experiencing problems.
Ours started showing various symptoms within the 1st year, and I was
bringing it to the dealership it many times without any constructive
diagnostics of the probelm from that point until the CVT completely
failed
in 2013 (I couldn't drive from a stop sign.). I don't remember how
many miles it had at that point, maybe 50-60K?
And the brand-new CVT is not completely symptom-free (although all
those symptoms are sort of subtle "anomalies", and none of them are
any types of failures.)
I've been told that a line of Nissan trucks (Titans, IIRC) has huge
number of warranty repairs in the first 1-3 years.
A number of experienced and smart (non-dealer) mechanics refuse to
deal with CVTs. The reasons are: 1. it's a complicated system, and 2.
from what I understand (but I might be wrong), - Nissan does not
release any information about repairs/rebuilding of CVTs. I suspect
even dealership mechanics do not do any rebuilding of CVTs: they
either replace CVTs, or they add those cooling systems as prescribed
by the corporate Nissan.
It doesn't mean that a smart guy cannot figure things out (you know,
people hacked more complicated electronic systems). But I would not
expect an average Joe's Corner Shop to deal with that correctly.
A few other thoughts:
I assume that you've already checked that Subaru didn't issue any
extended warranty for your model. Just in case, - I would google for
your model and CVT, - to check if it is a frequently experienced
problem. If it is, even if it is not an officially accepted problem, -
you can try to push on your local dealer's mechanic shop (good luck
with that!), and they might
give you some discounts, as Paul has suggested. It's a slim chance, -
but might be worse trying. They might feel some guilt (har!) or have
some non-obvous incentive to be nice to you.
If you travel long-distance (as opposed to local, in-city commute), -
being sure that you wouldn't get stranded in the middle of nowhere
could be strong enough reason not to go for the lowest cost, even if
you can install 3 of those CVTs for the cost of one new.
And in case one of the warranties is significantly longer than 1 year,
I would seriously consider that, even though I very seldom pay for any
extra warranties.
Good luck!
Igor
PS. I like the performance and the feel of the CVT on Rogue, but I
would do a very careful research about CVT reliability when I will be
buying my next car.
And I am not keen on the idea of the shift-point emulation on top of
the CVT. That's what Nissan does in some of the current models.
I think that is a fad that defeats the advantages of a CVT.
On May 29, 2016 11:12 AM, "Mark C" wrote:
While just driving along the highway Thursday my 2011 Subaru Outback
made
some odd noises and suddenly lit up what looked like every warning
light on
the control panel. I pulled over and wound up getting it towed to the
nearest dealership. On Friday they gave me the bad news - at just 78,000
miles the CVT transmission was shot. Needs a complete replacement.
The shop that has the car quoted me $11,000 to replace the CVT with a
new
unit and just under $10,000 for a factory re-manufactured one. My local
shop quoted me $7,700 for a Subaru remanufactured CVT. It might be more
since I don't know if that includes the 6% sale tax on CVT itself. A
local
independent shop gave me a rough estimate of $4,400 for a used
one,installed. All of the places figure about $1000 labor, everything
else
is the cost of parts plus sales tax on the parts.
The only firm estimates I have are the ones from the first place. I got
the news from them at 3 PM Friday, before the holiday weekend. The local
places are quoting typical rates, they have not even seen the car yet to
give me a firm estimate. I don't know the warranty on the used
transmission at this point either, just that it has 25K on it.
I do have a call into Subaru customer service and they have agreed to
do a
review of this under their goodwill program, so maybe there will be some
relief there, but the car is out of warranty and no extended coverage.
My concern with a used CVT, though, is that they seem to be pretty
complex
and high tech devices. I have heard that they are actually built in
clean
rooms. So I'm wondering if pulling one off a wreck would be a good idea.
Any reason NOT to do a used CVT? Thoughts would be appreciated. My
first
task is getting the car towed back here next week.
Mark
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