Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. Thank you for making clear, absolutely clear, that AOLserver is not a community-based open source project. You're doing everyone a favor. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. - n On 8/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
AOLserver is going to become even easier to set up and configure. Yeah, right... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 3, 2007, at 9:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? A member of the community. I'll repeat what he said: please stop swearing at and insulting people. Tom Jackson swore. I used the phrase I f* up, which in my part of the world, at least, isn't considered swearing nor vulgar. I was simply suggesting Dossy admit he made a mistake, and move on. Not to jump in the middle of this, but didn't Dossy admit to making a mistake (I believe in a mailing he made from his car)? Best I can tell the 4.5 release is a development release (there were a few coding changes I needed to make for Uptime and Myturl) and 4.0.x is a stable release. Perhaps that has not been communicated well and, well, communication seems to be a problem on many Open Source projects. I think I am current in making the following statements (feel free to correct me if I am wrong): 1. 4.5 is a development release. There are some radical changes to it that may or may not be a good idea. Input and evaluation is needed from the community before it is put into a stable release, say AOLserver 5.0. 2. Better communication, documentation, and planning is needed moving forward. I don't think this has ever really happened on for AOLserver, so it continues to be an issue. 3. It might be beneficial to look at the Naviserver software and bring in some of those ideas for the development release of the next version of AOLserver and/or visa-versa. Once again, community communication is needed here. 4. AOLserver needs a better roadmap and plan going forward. 5. This appears to be more of an oversight than action of a small group bent on keeping things their own. The real question, I guess, is how move to forward and improve the process, make things better, and contribute code? On the coding front, I have very little time but I would be willing to contribute a bit of time in making the process and communication better if others from either side want to help. I just don't have to time and contribute as a lone wolf. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Nathan,
This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for
AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the
config file to set this?
Since some have called for examples, would it be possible for the author of
these changes to provide a few. I have been using the threadpool
configuration as shown in this example (start at server.tcl, then source
threadpool files):
From: http://rmadilo.com/m2/servers/rmadilo/config/
# threadpool-default.tcl
# Single Threadpool
# pool = default
ns_section ns/server/${server}/pool/$pool
ns_param maxconnections100
ns_param minthreads4 ;# 0
ns_param maxthreads10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map GET /
ns_param map POST /
tom jackson
On Thursday 26 July 2007 08:53, Nathan Folkman wrote:
You'd actually want to do it by adding the following to the end of your
configuration file:
ns_pools set procsmsgmgr -maxconns 100 -maxthreads 20 -minthreads 10
-timeout 10
ns_pools register procsmsgmgr server1 POST /proc/msgmgr
You can then verify that everything worked via the AOLserver control port:
server1:nscp 1 ns_pools list
procsmsgmgr default error
server1:nscp 2 ns_server threads procsmsgmgr
{min 10} {max 20} {current 10} {idle 10} {stopping 0}
server1:nscp 3 ns_pools get procsmsgmgr
minthreads 10 maxthreads 20 idle 10 current 10 maxconns 100 queued 0
timeout 10
Hope that helps!
- n
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Nathan for the info. I'm trying to configure a pool but ns_server
threads procmsgmgr returns error on server log.
[26/Jul/2007:18:06:07][4968.3074280352][-conn:0-] Error: Tcl exception:
no such pool: procmsgmgr
while executing
ns_server threads procmsgmgr
#
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pools
ns_param procmsgmgr Message Manager Receiving Pool
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pool/procmsgmgr
ns_param map {POST /proc/msgmgr}
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 20
ns_param minthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout60
Can you tell if my configuration is correct?
regards,
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl
command:
ns_pools:
The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more
pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow
certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This
could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests
don't block other short running requests. Pools are selected
based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed
by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all requests
are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There
is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with
the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
See also the new ns_limits command:
ns_limit:
The ns_limit command enables setting various resource
limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits
include such items as max concurrent connections, max file
upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection processing.
When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately
dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing
pool to generate a quick error response. By default all
requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the
new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its 4.5.0
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What version of AOLserver are you running?
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default)
I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below:
ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on
queue
ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too
many conns
ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this
rate
ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10.
Server Threads
min0
max10
current1
idle0
stopping0
I'm not sure what i'm missing here.
regards,
shedi
--
AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/
To Remove yourself from
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.02, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I step down as project leader and let someone else take over? The irony is that the title really doesn't mean much at all. I suspect that you simply don't understand what it means in the context of a community-based open source project. It doesn't mean that you arbitrarily make decisions quietly and then go implement them without discussion with the community. Please share with us YOUR definition! So, in the spirit of open source software meritocracies: please place your money where your mouth is. Come up with a list of actionable changes you'd make if you were king. Lets hear it--and if everyone agrees to a particular change, we'll declare it made. (Note: declaring anything to a volunteer-driven organization doesn't guarantee that anyone will actually do it.) The graceful thing to do would be to say I fucked up, sorry, there was no malice on my end, it was a simple mistake and I take responsibility for not communicating my ideas to the community before implementing them. Let's move on! But your use of the word king makes me think you don't really quite understand the role, unless you're thinking of a king working in a parliamentary government. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On Aug 3, 2007, at 3:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? He's someone who is trying to keep the discussion civil and productive, and trying to be helpful. Really, I think it's best to express yourself in a non- confrontational way, you're much more likely to have the other side listen to you. Folks can we tone down the flamage on this list? We're a small community, and nobody will be served well by angering each other. -john -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Please, dhogaza, stop. And, everyone else, please don't feed the troll. Thanks, Juan José -- Juan José del Río Simple Option / Atención al cliente y soporte técnico Oficina: 0034 951 930 122 Móvil: 0034 616 512 340 Fax: 0034 952 792 455 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.simpleoption.com On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 06:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. Thanks! To follow up on my last post, from here it looks like another unilateral decision without community input. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally I think the proper resolution here is for the AOL team to admit that this is a private project where they retain the right to do anything with the public open source code. Dossy no longer works for AOL, so I think the group is more like those who've been contributing in the recent past. Though I guess the other two do work for AOL? Michael Andrews no longer works for AOL, either. So, Nate is really the only one who is the AOL team. Honestly, Tom, I don't think it's an intentional cabal, more of an oversight, the kind of oversight that isn't that uncommon when a group of folks work closely together. They're not the first to forget there's a community using the code, nor to forget that community interests and their interests might not be congruent. Or perhaps simply to forget to communicate. I think there are folks who use AOLserver on this list who know I've made attempts to communicate with them (privately, off-list) periodically. I'm not very good at keeping in touch with people--matter of fact, I still have ~4,000 messages in my inbox, the oldest currently dating back to December 2002. The reason why I reach out to organizations privately is because some of them are building commercial products on top of AOLserver and may not be comfortable discussing their needs in a public forum. However, I recognize the value in hearing what their pain points are and to try and find some way to address them (hint: without people actively contributing, it's hard to address anything). I do realize that since this happens in private there may be the illusion that it's not happening at all--that the only direction and input to AOLserver comes from AOL, but that's not wholly true. There may be some groups that I ought to communicate with, or more regularly with, and I don't--that's certainly a problem I need to address. However, AOL has certainly contributed the most funding to the project in terms of headcount over the years--it is only natural that most of the contributions will directly serve AOL's needs. I invite any and all organizations out there who use AOLserver to fund their own developers who will contribute to the project--get in touch with me and I'll set up the necessary CVS commit access. Don, what would you change to improve things? Of those suggestions, which could you personally do to help the project? When I say I'd welcome any and all help, I mean it sincerely--I need the help. -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Personally I think the proper resolution here is for the AOL team to admit that this is a private project where they retain the right to do anything with the public open source code. Dossy no longer works for AOL, so I think the group is more like those who've been contributing in the recent past. Though I guess the other two do work for AOL? Which doesn't include me, I admit. Though I did maintain the postgres driver for years, by myself, and helped out with the oracle driver, and more recently made ns_cache virtual server aware. However I'm in no way a key contributor in the sense Dossy et al are. Honestly, Tom, I don't think it's an intentional cabal, more of an oversight, the kind of oversight that isn't that uncommon when a group of folks work closely together. They're not the first to forget there's a community using the code, nor to forget that community interests and their interests might not be congruent. Or perhaps simply to forget to communicate. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
So I guess this pretty much seals the deal we have kings in charge of the code and kings in charge of our speech. The only person who called anyone anything was Dossy, who called me a griefer, based upon his definition of contribution and his perception that he's done much more of it than I have. Somehow this concept is not vulgar. This is the definition of violence. But maybe others don't quite get it. An analogy is necessary. My wife and I provide 100% of the income for our family of three. We do 95% of the chores, all of the planning, buying of toys and clothes for our child. According to the standards of this community, my daughter should never complain, never demand a little respect, never ask for some decent behavior, never wonder what is going to happen in the future. If she complains, she should be punished, maybe kicked out of the house, insulted, belittled, put in her place. Yes what a beautiful family we would have if we acted like our kings. I don't run my family like a democracy, but neither like a despot. Anyone who thinks I used vulgarity directed at a person, please reread my posts. I also never spoke of an indecent act as the subject, although I did use an analogy. Yes, still it was over the line, sorry for that, I'll refrain from that in the future. And in case there is any doubt, I do fully appreciate the programming skills of the AOL team, and if I didn't, none of this would have surprised me. Personally I think the proper resolution here is for the AOL team to admit that this is a private project where they retain the right to do anything with the public open source code. I'm not sure why the secrecy, or why they can't maintain their own unreleased version, or just setup a branch, but pretending to be a community and treating the voluntary participants as second class citizens is truely violent. Although everyone here could simply chose to not listen, they can't choose to ignore how their software works or doesn't work. Software listens very carefully, and misbehaves badly at the slightest error. tom jackson On Friday 03 August 2007 07:06, Nathan Folkman wrote: I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. - n On 8/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. Oh, that will earn you brownie points. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I used the phrase I f* up, which in my part of the world, at least, isn't considered swearing nor vulgar. I was simply suggesting Dossy admit he made a mistake, and move on. I thought I did this. Matter of fact, I did this while driving in the car on vacation because I knew it was important and I didn't want the discussion to continue without it being said. I made a mistake. Can we move on, now? http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0708L=aolserverP=2592 (or, http://www.mail-archive.com/aolserver@listserv.aol.com/msg10805.html) | Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 12:49:53 EDT | Reply-To: AOLserver Discussion AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM | Sender: AOLserver Discussion AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: Re: configured minthreads, | maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 | | I'm currently away on vacation this week (in Ocean City, MD) and writing | long emails on the Treo isn't exactly fun, so I'll keep this short: | | 1. It's my fault that 4.5 has the pools/limits functionality. I didn't |do a good enough job communicating to everyone about the change. I |haven't done a good enough job organizing the direction of the |project in general. I'm very sorry about this. | | 2. 4.5 is a major dot-release from 4.0. Matter of fact, we skipped |4.1--4.4 to indicate the magnitude of change that the 4.5 release |tree will represent. We are long overdue for significant technical |improvements to AOLserver. I, however, do not want this to leave |people behind. In time, I do hope to see both a migration guide and |backwards compat. code to be authored to ease transition. 4.5.0 is |really bleeding edge--sorry. | | 3. This project really could use more contributors. Especially a |semi-serious tech. writer would be a huge help. How do you attract a |tech. writer to contribute to an open source project? Suggestions? | | I'll go through all the good suggestions and comments in this email | thread when I'm back in front of a real keyboard, but I didn't want my | silence to appear as indifference in the matter: I care a great deal and | really think if we can get people excited again, we can start seeing | real progress. | | -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.03, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only person who called anyone anything was Dossy, who called me a griefer, based upon his definition of contribution and his perception that he's done much more of it than I have. Sorry, I shouldn't have used a word that doesn't have a widely understood definition. Wikipedia's definition is a pretty good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer A griefer is a slang term used to describe a player in an online video game who plays the game simply to cause grief to other players through harassment. A griefer is one whose goal for participation is to cause grief for other players. I said you make me feel like you're being a griefer because your participation in this email thread has degenerated into telling everyone what they're doing wrong, inciting people with aggressive words, and complaining--it's hard for me to see what you're actually trying to change or improve through your actions. If you're frustrated at the project's progress, or my involvement with it, or anything else, and you feel the need to rant and complain, in order to put it behind you and start moving forward again, I'm okay with that. However, I'd just ask you to consider whether you think it's appropriate for the mailing list, and if not, send it directly to the person you feel the need to complain to or rant at. Thanks, -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
The reason why I reach out to organizations privately is because some of them are building commercial products on top of AOLserver and may not be comfortable discussing their needs in a public forum. Well, the way we handle such situations in the openacs community is that changes go through an approval process which we've copied from the Tcl crew. So these things CAN'T happen in private. The motivation - or the identity of a paying customer - can be kept private, of course, but changes in core code that changes functionality must be approved by core developers in a PUBLIC PROCESS. The developer community around AOLserver is small, so informality's fine IMO, but transparency is crucial. And BTW, I recognize that you've communicated with the OpenACS community as well as various companies, and that's a good thing. Don, what would you change to improve things? Of those suggestions, which could you personally do to help the project? Unfortunately my volunteer time is still allocated to OpenACS, so I can't really offer to help on a sustained basis, though I did drop in and implement virtual server awareness in ns_cache back when virtual servers were put in. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 8/3/07, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reason why I reach out to organizations privately is because some of them are building commercial products on top of AOLserver and may not be comfortable discussing their needs in a public forum. However, I recognize the value in hearing what their pain points are and to try and find some way to address them (hint: without people actively contributing, it's hard to address anything). Right here I think, whether the ideas are anonymous or not, listing and communicating these requests need to be done. If you are the single point of contact you'd need to somehow share this with the rest of the community that is not part of these private conversations. That would be a good start, I think. I am from the OpenACS community and my main need is for AOLserver to work as expected and not break backwards compatibility. I don't represent the entire OpenACS developer community though, so others might have other needs. Dave -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
We actually also tried a similar process a few years ago, but it failed due to various conflicts and general lack of interest. Would be great to get something like that going again. - n On 8/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reason why I reach out to organizations privately is because some of them are building commercial products on top of AOLserver and may not be comfortable discussing their needs in a public forum. Well, the way we handle such situations in the openacs community is that changes go through an approval process which we've copied from the Tcl crew. So these things CAN'T happen in private. The motivation - or the identity of a paying customer - can be kept private, of course, but changes in core code that changes functionality must be approved by core developers in a PUBLIC PROCESS. The developer community around AOLserver is small, so informality's fine IMO, but transparency is crucial. And BTW, I recognize that you've communicated with the OpenACS community as well as various companies, and that's a good thing. Don, what would you change to improve things? Of those suggestions, which could you personally do to help the project? Unfortunately my volunteer time is still allocated to OpenACS, so I can't really offer to help on a sustained basis, though I did drop in and implement virtual server awareness in ns_cache back when virtual servers were put in. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
We actually also tried a similar process a few years ago, but it failed due to various conflicts and general lack of interest. Would be great to get something like that going again. Well, as I said in that note, I think the community's too small warrant the formalism. But the principle of transparency is key (and if you think flames here in that regard are bad, you should visit some of the threads from about four years ago in our community when some folks felt that transparency wasn't being properly respected. I'm lucky to be alive. Ever have a 20-yr old university student from Cyprus angry at you? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Dossy, Like I said you are the only one making statements about personal qualities. Others have asked you to simply admit you made a mistake. But if you re-read my initial emails, I was focused on fixing the problem. I spent a number of hours researching the issue and writing code. I ran tests, I discovered a bug in the file contributed by Michael. We were working togeather to make the current code compatable with previous versions of AOLserver configuration files. But my testing revealed that the underlying C code no longer supported the previous features. Instead of apologies from the AOL team, or better: oops! that isn't right, can you help fix it?, we were treated the new reality that the configuration method was going to be replaced with a magic oracle, that virtual servers might be ditched, and so on, so everything was okay, nothing needed to be changed. The apology was supposed to be for not communicating unilateral decisions to the community, not for continuing the problem. The response has been: sorry this is how we are going to do things, sorry you don't like it, sorry you didn't contribute enough to be included in the private discussion. Please explain how anyone can contribute if nothing is ever discussed? People contribute when they think they are part of the process, not to follow orders or write documentation for uncommented C code. What happened here is that one community member noticed that the old configuation parameters were not being used in version 4.5. A few of us instantly perked up realizing the significance of the issue. At first this looked like a big issue, but after reassurance from AOL developers and an initial analysis, it seemed easily fixed. I worked on a fix. Then I discovered the real issue. Was anyone on the AOL team happy to hear this? Did any of them even consider it a problem? Did any of them explain why it wasn't an issue, that I just simply do not know what I am talking about? Did any of them encourage me to contribute a fix? So I guess the answer to: --it's hard for me to see what you're actually trying to change or improve through your actions. I would simply say: to fix the bug which is the subject of this thread. I don't think I was the one who veered off course to discuss other issues, to discourage any fixing, our just to go away if I didn't like the current code. I still wish to fix this, although I would need input and suggestions as a few API would require change, as would the Pool data structure. The Tcl API would remain unchanged, although it would be nice to be able to query the current maps, or test which threadpool would handle a given url. tom jackson On Friday 03 August 2007 09:40, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2007.08.03, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only person who called anyone anything was Dossy, who called me a griefer, based upon his definition of contribution and his perception that he's done much more of it than I have. Sorry, I shouldn't have used a word that doesn't have a widely understood definition. Wikipedia's definition is a pretty good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer A griefer is a slang term used to describe a player in an online video game who plays the game simply to cause grief to other players through harassment. A griefer is one whose goal for participation is to cause grief for other players. I said you make me feel like you're being a griefer because your participation in this email thread has degenerated into telling everyone what they're doing wrong, inciting people with aggressive words, and complaining--it's hard for me to see what you're actually trying to change or improve through your actions. If you're frustrated at the project's progress, or my involvement with it, or anything else, and you feel the need to rant and complain, in order to put it behind you and start moving forward again, I'm okay with that. However, I'd just ask you to consider whether you think it's appropriate for the mailing list, and if not, send it directly to the person you feel the need to complain to or rant at. Thanks, -- Dossy -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Hi,
I think it's a fine idea that conn thread pools are a process-wide
resource. I liked the idea so much, I copied it. (Well, the limits
part, so far...)
But I agree with you; although ns_pools/ns_limits enable some handy
new features, such as dynamic configuration, it sure would be
convenient to be able to set this from the config file.
Here's how that works in NaviServer:
http://naviserver.cvs.sourceforge.net/naviserver/naviserver/tcl/config.tcl?view=markup
'ns_runonce -global { ... }' is used to get around the issue you've
noticed with overwriting. AOLserver has an 'ns_ictl once' command, but
IIRC it's once per-virtual server only, I'm afraid.
Couple of other misconceptions/questions were raised:
Tcl interps belong to the thread which created them. If there's more
than one virtual server configured, there's one interp for each
server, per-thread.
Tcl objects are reference counted. The Tcl documentation hints that
when your C implementation of a command begins, the interp result is
in a pristine state. it's value is . You might also expect it to be
unshared. But sometimes it's not!
So you can't do the obvious:
Tcl_SetIntValue(Tcl_GetInterpResult(interp), 1);
and instead have to:
Tcl_SetObjResult(interp, Tcl_NewIntValue(1));
It's tempting to do the first because it looks faster. Anywho, it's
not a threading issue.
Hope that helps.
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Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Stephen,
My concern over this is that one virtual server might have slightly different
code, for instance development vs. production, and would likely share the
same threadpool. What exactly is part of the thread in a pool? Is there any
remaining code or data from one use to another, or is all data in the Tcl
interp?
The problem with ns_pools is that without explicit configuration two process
wide threadpools are created: 'default' and 'error'. Now if any virtual
server sets up a threadpool named 'default', the new limits apply to the
process wide 'default' threadpool. This replacement or overwriting of data
continues to occur for every virtual server, so the last one wins out. If it
is expected that modules will configure their own pools and that these
modules will be used with virtual servers, some in the same process, it is
easy to predict that conficts will result. Process wide control is not
compatable with module control, they can't both have access to the same
settings.
tom jackson
On Friday 03 August 2007 13:29, Stephen Deasey wrote:
Hi,
I think it's a fine idea that conn thread pools are a process-wide
resource. I liked the idea so much, I copied it. (Well, the limits
part, so far...)
But I agree with you; although ns_pools/ns_limits enable some handy
new features, such as dynamic configuration, it sure would be
convenient to be able to set this from the config file.
Here's how that works in NaviServer:
http://naviserver.cvs.sourceforge.net/naviserver/naviserver/tcl/config.tcl?
view=markup
'ns_runonce -global { ... }' is used to get around the issue you've
noticed with overwriting. AOLserver has an 'ns_ictl once' command, but
IIRC it's once per-virtual server only, I'm afraid.
Couple of other misconceptions/questions were raised:
Tcl interps belong to the thread which created them. If there's more
than one virtual server configured, there's one interp for each
server, per-thread.
Tcl objects are reference counted. The Tcl documentation hints that
when your C implementation of a command begins, the interp result is
in a pristine state. it's value is . You might also expect it to be
unshared. But sometimes it's not!
So you can't do the obvious:
Tcl_SetIntValue(Tcl_GetInterpResult(interp), 1);
and instead have to:
Tcl_SetObjResult(interp, Tcl_NewIntValue(1));
It's tempting to do the first because it looks faster. Anywho, it's
not a threading issue.
Hope that helps.
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Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 8/3/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stephen,
My concern over this is that one virtual server might have slightly different
code, for instance development vs. production, and would likely share the
same threadpool. What exactly is part of the thread in a pool? Is there any
remaining code or data from one use to another, or is all data in the Tcl
interp?
Yes, each virtual server gets it's own interp in each thread. There is
no sharing between virtual servers.
The problem with ns_pools is that without explicit configuration two process
wide threadpools are created: 'default' and 'error'. Now if any virtual
server sets up a threadpool named 'default', the new limits apply to the
process wide 'default' threadpool.
Don't do that? :-)
Thread pools are process-wide because memory (n * interps per thread),
context switch overhead and caching effects, balanced against latency
and paralelism etc. and so on, are properties of the system as a
whole, not 1 of n virtual servers.
To optimise a global resource you need a global overview.
Anyway, here's a snippet from NEWS (same applies to pools):
* New sections for server limits:
ns_section ns/limits
ns_param default Default Limits ;# Defines a limit.
ns_section ns/limit/default
ns_param maxrun 100 ;# Conn threads running for limit.
ns_param maxwait 100 ;# Conn threads waiting for limit.
ns_param maxupload 10240 ;# Max size of file upload in bytes.
ns_param timeout 60;# Total seconds to wait for resources.
ns_section ns/server/server1/limits
ns_param default GET /* ;# Map default limit to URL.
ns_param default POST /*
ns_param default HEAD /*
Limits (pools) are explicitly set globally. The only thing to do in
the per-virtual server section (ns/server/*) is to map existing pools
to URLs.
It isn't working for you because you have the definition of the pools
per-virtual server, whereas you should just be mapping servers to
pools. Works for me.
A change of config file syntax is not the end of the world. You could
always fall back to the old config locations if ns/pools doesn't
exist, and implement 'ns_runonce -global { ... }' (or whatever) to
prevent toe stepping.
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Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Stephen,
I agree that you have clearly defined one use of threadpools, essentially
overall limits. But note that threadpools are tied to url patterns. The
concept is that certain urls consume more resources that others, not just
memory, but processor time. Other urls consume few resources, maybe just
static content. Then there could be differences between a development version
of a site and a production version running in the same nsd process. Maybe an
admin section needs to always have available threads if the whole server is
jammed up for some reason. There is more than one use for threadpools, which
is the original reason for the threadpool maps: prior to threadpools, there
were per-virtual-server settings. This is what was removed and replaced with
the current code. Something else removed was a bunch of checks done on the
configuration parameters, maybe not important, who knows without testing:
things like minthreads = maxthreads = maxconnections.
I still think there is a funamental clash between the idea of global control
using global threadpools and allowing modules to setup and use their own
threadpools which either escape from or override the global settings. The
only thing preventing this is tight coordination between the global and
module level settings.
tom jackson
On Friday 03 August 2007 15:57, Stephen Deasey wrote:
On 8/3/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stephen,
My concern over this is that one virtual server might have slightly
different code, for instance development vs. production, and would likely
share the same threadpool. What exactly is part of the thread in a pool?
Is there any remaining code or data from one use to another, or is all
data in the Tcl interp?
Yes, each virtual server gets it's own interp in each thread. There is
no sharing between virtual servers.
The problem with ns_pools is that without explicit configuration two
process wide threadpools are created: 'default' and 'error'. Now if any
virtual server sets up a threadpool named 'default', the new limits apply
to the process wide 'default' threadpool.
Don't do that? :-)
Thread pools are process-wide because memory (n * interps per thread),
context switch overhead and caching effects, balanced against latency
and paralelism etc. and so on, are properties of the system as a
whole, not 1 of n virtual servers.
To optimise a global resource you need a global overview.
Anyway, here's a snippet from NEWS (same applies to pools):
* New sections for server limits:
ns_section ns/limits
ns_param default Default Limits ;# Defines a limit.
ns_section ns/limit/default
ns_param maxrun 100 ;# Conn threads running for limit.
ns_param maxwait 100 ;# Conn threads waiting for limit.
ns_param maxupload 10240 ;# Max size of file upload in
bytes. ns_param timeout 60;# Total seconds to wait for
resources.
ns_section ns/server/server1/limits
ns_param default GET /* ;# Map default limit to URL.
ns_param default POST /*
ns_param default HEAD /*
Limits (pools) are explicitly set globally. The only thing to do in
the per-virtual server section (ns/server/*) is to map existing pools
to URLs.
It isn't working for you because you have the definition of the pools
per-virtual server, whereas you should just be mapping servers to
pools. Works for me.
A change of config file syntax is not the end of the world. You could
always fall back to the old config locations if ns/pools doesn't
exist, and implement 'ns_runonce -global { ... }' (or whatever) to
prevent toe stepping.
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Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 8/4/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen, I agree that you have clearly defined one use of threadpools, essentially overall limits. But note that threadpools are tied to url patterns. The concept is that certain urls consume more resources that others, not just memory, but processor time. Other urls consume few resources, maybe just static content. Then there could be differences between a development version of a site and a production version running in the same nsd process. I agree, there are many possible configurations (some more useful than others)... There is more than one use for threadpools, which is the original reason for the threadpool maps: prior to threadpools, there were per-virtual-server settings. This is what was removed and replaced with the current code. The old way didn't absolve you from setting threads correctly. If you had two virtual servers and you thought the ideal number of threads for an nsd process on a particular machine was 20, you give each v-server 10 (or some other portion). But here's the problem: server1 gets slashdotted, uses up all it's conn threads, and starts rejecting connections. Meanwhile server2 sits idle with spare threads. You could say: well, give each server 20 threads if that will max out the server. Now both servers get slashdotted and response time goes through the roof. Threads are a global resource. Maybe an admin section needs to always have available threads if the whole server is jammed up for some reason. Use ns_pools and ns_limits in combination. You could, for example, create a pool with 20 threads and map both servers to it. Create a limit with maxrun 15 and map both servers to it. Now, when server1 overloads there will still be 5 threads left for the other v-server. Use pools to separate by type: threads with interps vs. without, error pool, etc. Use limits to implement some QOS policy, such as the /admin example. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Michael,
I have just provided you with information which shows that even this is not
functioning correctly. If you have multiple virtual servers, whichever one
runs the pools.tcl file last will set the default pool parameters, and there
is only one 'default' pool in a single nsd process, no matter how many
virtual servers you have. So whatever pools.tcl is supposed to do or not do,
it looks like pools use a single hash table with the key being only the pool
name. Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the server
name to the key.
Also, please remember that the previous functionality allowed all pools to be
configured via the config file.
Given your opinion and Dossy's, which until today were never discussed on this
list, maybe the AOL team can discuss it a little. I haven't seen any evidence
that the proposed change is of any benefit, in fact we already have evidence
to the contrary. If this is the first experiment in how things will go, maybe
you should stop looking for documenters for broken code and ask for some real
design help.
Earlier today I was somewhat defending this as a simple oversight, but now it
is becoming obvious that you, Dossy and Nathan simply don't get it: you have
removed functionality and half replaced it with broken code. Who does this,
doesn't tell anyone for a year and then defends it with comments like don't
upgrade if you don't like it. Even if you could move all this module
configuration into modules and packages, you still have to configure which
modules to load and a bunch of other stuff.
Yes, the configuration file sucks and is hard to make even slight improvements
in the way things work, and it doesn't usually contain default values set in
C code, but lets take a little look at my current setup, one small part:
server.tcl (virtual server configuration file)
#
# Module Configuation Files:
#
foreach {module lib} $ServerModules {
set moduleFile $configDir/${module}.tcl
if {[file exists $moduleFile]} {
source $moduleFile
}
}
Notice that each virtual server has its own config directory, on the same
level as the pages directory. Also, each module must have a unique name, so
files named after the module are guaranteed not to conflict with each other.
Also, each virtual server could have independent configuration files for a
given module. But if you mix config files with code, then any differences
will require you to use separate copies of the module code, and it also makes
code versioning difficult.
The previous threadpools config was handled in a similar way:
#
# Thread Pools
#
set pools [list fast default-jnm]
foreach pool $pools {
set poolScript $configDir/threadpool-${pool}.tcl
if {[file exists $poolScript]} {
source $poolScript
}
}
and threadpool-fast.tcl contains this:
# Single Threadpool
# pool = fast
ns_section ns/server/${server}/pools
ns_param $pool $pool pool
ns_section ns/server/${server}/pool/$pool
ns_param maxconnections100
ns_param minthreads2 ;# default = 0
ns_param maxthreads10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map GET /*-thumb.jpg
ns_param map GET /images/*-thumb.jpg
ns_param map GET /test.html
The above threadpool configuration could just as easily go in with the module
configuration file so it is obvious what the threadpool is used for. But
another look at the maps above also demonstrates the logic failure of tying
threadpools to modules: some threadpools apply to an entire virtual server.
If static files can be served by a dedicated set of threadpools, then these
threads may avoid accumulating a lot of extra code and data, or long running
threads can be restricted to just a few instances server-wide.
Mamma said, Stupid is as stupid does. This whole thing is done stupid.
tom jackson
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 20:35, Michael Andrews wrote:
To clarify - The pools.tcl file I wrote serves ONE purpose. To set
the default pool's params to what is in the server config. This
was ONLY done because folks expected the default pool to be set at
start up using the config params... as it was in 4.0.10.
My opinion is that any OTHER pools should be created and managed by
Tcl Modules and or Tcl Packages, not the server config.
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Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The natural segue with most settings changeable at runtime is a body of intelligent code that self-tunes and dynamically heals the server (ala Oracle's clusterware, etc.). Oh, lord. There's a reason people avoid Oracle unless they really need it. And I haven't needed it for a long time. Besides which, we're not talking about anything nearly as complex as cluster management here. I'd love to get AOLserver the point where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the workload it's receiving. You do, I'm sure, realize that this is more in the nature of a research project and something that shouldn't be let loose anywhere near a production release until it's been exhaustively tested by a reasonable number of people? Please tell me you're aware of a few basic software engineering principles. Please. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the server name to the key. ISTM that virtual servers weren't considered when this code was written ... All code in current versions should be fully aware of virtual servers. If this is the first experiment in how things will go... Experimental code shouldn't go into production releases. Seems obvious to me that this stuff's not production-quality. Even if you could move all this module configuration into modules and packages, you still have to configure which modules to load and a bunch of other stuff. And, again, as I said earlier, ease of configuration has been a real plus for AOLserver over the years. Why walk away from that legacy? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd love to get AOLserver the point where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the workload it's receiving. Besides which, shouldn't decisions on this scale be community decisions, not decisions of the I'd love to ... variety? This isn't a personal sandbox. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 23:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the server name to the key. ISTM that virtual servers weren't considered when this code was written ... All code in current versions should be fully aware of virtual servers. The previous code in 4.0.10 was in urlspace.c and queue.c and was fully virtual server aware. The current version simply ditches this for no good reason, and by that I mean that the map storage and search are fully virtual server aware, but the threadpool creation code is a simple hash table keyed to the name of the threadpool. It also appears that on startup, two threadpools are created 'default' and 'error'. These are shared across virtual servers. Any redefinition of these affects all virtual servers. So question: we now have interps separate from threads, but what about memory, code, etc. Is this part of the interp or does it hang out with the thread? If the thread is just a clean slate, at least it is safe to reuse in another virtual server, otherwise this is a big bend over routine. But then we are left with the other option: threads pick up interps and run anywhere and everywhere on the virtual server and the interp eventually grows in size. Even if threads exit with given timeout, do interps? This negates the reason for threadpools entirely. This really needs to be discussed because the programming model could be disasterously affected and complicated by these decisions. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I think these are all valid concerns and comments. But let's not confuse the 2 very separate issues here. :-) The goal of yesterday's pools.tcl was to set the default pool's params from the config. This was done so it would be backward compatible. This is not in the HEAD. This is a good patch. This is done. The OTHER issue is the ns_pools command itself. This command is a Tcl command to create and register pools. It is NEW in 4.5. If there are bugs/issues with this command - they should be addressed for the next release or patch. I am very very very happy to see so much enthusiasm over AOLServer. The contributions made here have been valuable. Without the community AOLserver would have been dead 2 years ago. So now we just need to get a few things in place to facilitate continued development. 1) We should use the SourceForge site to enter bugs and feature requests so they are documented. Tom - it would be great if you could document your findings concerning ns_pools there. 2) Project owner(s) to determine roadmaps, releases, features, and schedules. 3) Volunteers to do work, commit code, and lead discussions. I think we are on the right track for most of this, and I am sure Dossy has thoughts on it all. :-) Michael On Aug 2, 2007, at 3:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd love to get AOLserver the point where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the workload it's receiving. Besides which, shouldn't decisions on this scale be community decisions, not decisions of the I'd love to ... variety? This isn't a personal sandbox. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Yeah. That seems like a bad oversight. But you could just define a new pool and register * to that pool (The registration takes a server name). At any rate - let's make sure this is documented on SourceFroge as a bug or feature requests. M On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Tom Jackson wrote: On Wednesday 01 August 2007 23:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the server name to the key. ISTM that virtual servers weren't considered when this code was written ... All code in current versions should be fully aware of virtual servers. The previous code in 4.0.10 was in urlspace.c and queue.c and was fully virtual server aware. The current version simply ditches this for no good reason, and by that I mean that the map storage and search are fully virtual server aware, but the threadpool creation code is a simple hash table keyed to the name of the threadpool. It also appears that on startup, two threadpools are created 'default' and 'error'. These are shared across virtual servers. Any redefinition of these affects all virtual servers. So question: we now have interps separate from threads, but what about memory, code, etc. Is this part of the interp or does it hang out with the thread? If the thread is just a clean slate, at least it is safe to reuse in another virtual server, otherwise this is a big bend over routine. But then we are left with the other option: threads pick up interps and run anywhere and everywhere on the virtual server and the interp eventually grows in size. Even if threads exit with given timeout, do interps? This negates the reason for threadpools entirely. This really needs to be discussed because the programming model could be disasterously affected and complicated by these decisions. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
There was a lot of discussion internally about whether or not to support virtual servers going forward. The main impetus was to try and further simplify the code base as much as possible. Virtual servers, while useful to many, add a great deal of complexity to the code. - n On 8/2/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 August 2007 23:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the server name to the key. ISTM that virtual servers weren't considered when this code was written ... All code in current versions should be fully aware of virtual servers. The previous code in 4.0.10 was in urlspace.c and queue.c and was fully virtual server aware. The current version simply ditches this for no good reason, and by that I mean that the map storage and search are fully virtual server aware, but the threadpool creation code is a simple hash table keyed to the name of the threadpool. It also appears that on startup, two threadpools are created 'default' and 'error'. These are shared across virtual servers. Any redefinition of these affects all virtual servers. So question: we now have interps separate from threads, but what about memory, code, etc. Is this part of the interp or does it hang out with the thread? If the thread is just a clean slate, at least it is safe to reuse in another virtual server, otherwise this is a big bend over routine. But then we are left with the other option: threads pick up interps and run anywhere and everywhere on the virtual server and the interp eventually grows in size. Even if threads exit with given timeout, do interps? This negates the reason for threadpools entirely. This really needs to be discussed because the programming model could be disasterously affected and complicated by these decisions. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
There was a lot of discussion internally about whether or not to support virtual servers going forward. The main impetus was to try and further simplify the code base as much as possible. You could always take out all serving, that would really simplify it. Nice community-oriented project y'all got going here. Glad I'm a member. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On Thursday 02 August 2007 08:17, Michael Andrews wrote: I think these are all valid concerns and comments. But let's not confuse the 2 very separate issues here. :-) The goal of yesterday's pools.tcl was to set the default pool's params from the config. This was done so it would be backward compatible. This is not in the HEAD. This is a good patch. This is done. I explained why this is not true. The new code in pools.c is not using the virtual server information to separate threadpools. If you cannot acknowledge the difference, or if you are not aware of the difference, this would be a good place to start. Your work and mine from yesterday was pretty much a complete waste of time due to the bad code in pools.c. The OTHER issue is the ns_pools command itself. This command is a Tcl command to create and register pools. It is NEW in 4.5. If there are bugs/issues with this command - they should be addressed for the next release or patch. This is not separate! AOLserver 4.0.10 combined configuration with registration, just because the AOL team replaced working code with broken and separate code doesn't make this a separate issue. The only thing new in 4.5 is the lack of recognition for virtual servers, how threadpools are defined, stored and retrieved is the same. I am very very very happy to see so much enthusiasm over AOLServer. The contributions made here have been valuable. Without the community AOLserver would have been dead 2 years ago. So now we just need to get a few things in place to facilitate continued development. 1) We should use the SourceForge site to enter bugs and feature requests so they are documented. Tom - it would be great if you could document your findings concerning ns_pools there. 2) Project owner(s) to determine roadmaps, releases, features, and schedules. 3) Volunteers to do work, commit code, and lead discussions. I think we are on the right track for most of this, and I am sure Dossy has thoughts on it all. :-) I'll continue to document problems here so everyone knows about them, not everyone subscribes to the sucky sourceforge bug tracker. About the only thing I can ever figure out from those emails is that someone made a change, issue emails are impossible to quickly understand. Second, you really need to stop asking for volunteers to do work, we are all here volunteering to discuss what should be done, which is what really needs to be done first. The first thing that should be discussed is some frank statements of the situation inside AOL: * who is working on AOLserver at AOL, * how much time is assigned for this work, * any unstated policies or goals which would cause AOL developers to ignore the community, * why AOL thinks this is acceptable behavior for developers, * if AOL developers should pledge to submit to community goals and standards for all public code. Most long time members of the AOLserver community are well aware of the history of AOL employees ignoring us, but this is usually backed up with superior code. That has been the one saving grace, now that is gone and nobody should be excusing AOL's BS any longer (I'm guilty of it up through yesterday, sorry). What is needed is some indication that the AOL developers understand the problem (they are 100% responsible for creating), otherwise we just have ass covering, there is simply no nicer way of putting it. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 11:51:07AM -0400, Nathan Folkman wrote: There was a lot of discussion internally about whether or not to support virtual servers going forward. Uh, was there some good reason that discussion was not carried out on this AOLserver email list? Was there in fact any reason at all, even a bad one? -- Andrew Piskorski [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.piskorski.com/ -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Yes. I most certainly acknowledge ns_pools does not work with virtual servers. And yes, I certainly acknowledge the pool.tcl file only sets the server-wide default pool. On Aug 2, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Tom Jackson wrote: On Thursday 02 August 2007 08:17, Michael Andrews wrote: I think these are all valid concerns and comments. But let's not confuse the 2 very separate issues here. :-) The goal of yesterday's pools.tcl was to set the default pool's params from the config. This was done so it would be backward compatible. This is not in the HEAD. This is a good patch. This is done. I explained why this is not true. The new code in pools.c is not using the virtual server information to separate threadpools. If you cannot acknowledge the difference, or if you are not aware of the difference, this would be a good place to start. Your work and mine from yesterday was pretty much a complete waste of time due to the bad code in pools.c. The OTHER issue is the ns_pools command itself. This command is a Tcl command to create and register pools. It is NEW in 4.5. If there are bugs/issues with this command - they should be addressed for the next release or patch. This is not separate! AOLserver 4.0.10 combined configuration with registration, just because the AOL team replaced working code with broken and separate code doesn't make this a separate issue. The only thing new in 4.5 is the lack of recognition for virtual servers, how threadpools are defined, stored and retrieved is the same. I am very very very happy to see so much enthusiasm over AOLServer. The contributions made here have been valuable. Without the community AOLserver would have been dead 2 years ago. So now we just need to get a few things in place to facilitate continued development. 1) We should use the SourceForge site to enter bugs and feature requests so they are documented. Tom - it would be great if you could document your findings concerning ns_pools there. 2) Project owner(s) to determine roadmaps, releases, features, and schedules. 3) Volunteers to do work, commit code, and lead discussions. I think we are on the right track for most of this, and I am sure Dossy has thoughts on it all. :-) I'll continue to document problems here so everyone knows about them, not everyone subscribes to the sucky sourceforge bug tracker. About the only thing I can ever figure out from those emails is that someone made a change, issue emails are impossible to quickly understand. Second, you really need to stop asking for volunteers to do work, we are all here volunteering to discuss what should be done, which is what really needs to be done first. The first thing that should be discussed is some frank statements of the situation inside AOL: * who is working on AOLserver at AOL, * how much time is assigned for this work, * any unstated policies or goals which would cause AOL developers to ignore the community, * why AOL thinks this is acceptable behavior for developers, * if AOL developers should pledge to submit to community goals and standards for all public code. Most long time members of the AOLserver community are well aware of the history of AOL employees ignoring us, but this is usually backed up with superior code. That has been the one saving grace, now that is gone and nobody should be excusing AOL's BS any longer (I'm guilty of it up through yesterday, sorry). What is needed is some indication that the AOL developers understand the problem (they are 100% responsible for creating), otherwise we just have ass covering, there is simply no nicer way of putting it. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the hallmarks of AOLserver has always been ease of configuration. My sense is that we're drifting away from that? Frankly, one of the biggest FAQ's is how do I tune AOLserver? IMHO, ease of configuration is less to manually tune which means settings need to be able to be adjusted at runtime. Seriously, what value does being able to set max connections manually really offer? What people really want is a server that uses resources efficiently but in a way which doesn't run itself out of resources and starve itself. Rarely do I actually hear people say yes, I really want to limit the number of connections but rather I want to allow as many connections as my hardware can handle--how high should I set max connections? AOLserver is going to become even easier to set up and configure. These are growing pains, unfortunately. -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
There was a desire to be able to tune some of the server parameters while the server was running in order to avoid certain cases where a restart would result in the loss of various caches which had already been warmed up. Admittedly this requirement came from requirements for various AOL properties, but most of the new features in 4.5 came about this way. - n On 8/2/07, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2007.08.01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the hallmarks of AOLserver has always been ease of configuration. My sense is that we're drifting away from that? Frankly, one of the biggest FAQ's is how do I tune AOLserver? IMHO, ease of configuration is less to manually tune which means settings need to be able to be adjusted at runtime. Seriously, what value does being able to set max connections manually really offer? What people really want is a server that uses resources efficiently but in a way which doesn't run itself out of resources and starve itself. Rarely do I actually hear people say yes, I really want to limit the number of connections but rather I want to allow as many connections as my hardware can handle--how high should I set max connections? AOLserver is going to become even easier to set up and configure. These are growing pains, unfortunately. -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On Thursday 02 August 2007 16:18, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2007.08.01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the hallmarks of AOLserver has always been ease of configuration. My sense is that we're drifting away from that? Frankly, one of the biggest FAQ's is how do I tune AOLserver? IMHO, ease of configuration is less to manually tune which means settings need to be able to be adjusted at runtime. Seriously, what value does being able to set max connections manually really offer? What people really want is a server that uses resources efficiently but in a way which doesn't run itself out of resources and starve itself. Rarely do I actually hear people say yes, I really want to limit the number of connections but rather I want to allow as many connections as my hardware can handle--how high should I set max connections? AOLserver is going to become even easier to set up and configure. These are growing pains, unfortunately. What needs to grow here is your concept of community and just common sense. Somehow you conceive that the ability to change parameters without a restart, or to set them via a configuration setting are incompatable with each other. Then you invoke some fantasy magic code. But here is quite a riddle: you claim that everyone wants to max out their server, but then one of the new 'features' in 4.5 is ns_limits. What The Fuck! Also, I should note that the purpose of ns_pools is to distribute resources, so your whole reason is full of shit. The truth is that one large drawback of server management is 'managing' resources. So please spare us your philosophy of magic-ware that is smarter than the developers on this list. If the writers of this code can make such fundamental mistakes as we see here, we need real help. With logic like this who could ever expect code to work? The upside is that we now have a better idea of who we are dealing with. Thanks for cluing us in that we have no reason to believe things are going to be okay. Something has to change here. Either AOL needs to come clean, level with the community, or we need to simply inform hapless developers what they should expect. The community really should enforce public discussion of anything included in AOLserver, and more important enforce standards of compatability, upgrade pathways, etc. _OR_ we should notify everyone who comes near that it isn't really public development. This really sucks. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
On 2007.08.02, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Something has to change here. Either AOL needs to come clean, level
with the community, or we need to simply inform hapless developers
what they should expect.
As of November 2006, I no longer work for AOL. Yet, I still remain
involved with AOLserver. My contributions to AOLserver as of November
2006 have been my own, not AOL's. Sure, I still communicate with folks
at AOL, naturally, as they're one of the larger dependents of it, but I
also work with other folks who use AOLserver and am taking their needs
into consideration as well. However, as they no longer employ me, I
personally choose what to work on, when and how to contribute to the
project. Any contributions on my part that appear to be nefariously
complicit with AOL's agenda for AOLserver are merely coincidence, I
assure you.
You call for change--I'm all for it. Should I step down as project
leader and let someone else take over? The irony is that the title
really doesn't mean much at all.
So, in the spirit of open source software meritocracies: please place
your money where your mouth is. Come up with a list of actionable
changes you'd make if you were king. Lets hear it--and if everyone
agrees to a particular change, we'll declare it made. (Note: declaring
anything to a volunteer-driven organization doesn't guarantee that
anyone will actually do it.)
The community really should enforce public discussion of anything
included in AOLserver, and more important enforce standards of
compatability, upgrade pathways, etc. _OR_ we should notify everyone
who comes near that it isn't really public development.
The community can't enforce anything since this is all
volunteer-driven, for the most part.
As far as I can tell, the folks actually contributing changes are
communicating to each other, and the results of such contributions get
checked into public CVS. That's as public development as many open
source projects get. (The large open source projects with hundreds of
active contributors are *NOT* the norm. Please remember that.)
Actual contributions to AOLserver have either been to the wiki, which
has a RSS feed of changes for everyone to monitor, or to the CVS
repository, which is publically accessible for anyone to check out and
review the changes. There's the AOLSERVER-SF mailing list which
receives commit emails, so people can get opt-in to get push-style
notification when changes are committed. There's the IRC chat on
irc.freenode.net #aolserver, where some folks hang out and talk.
When new code gets committed, how come there isn't a flurry of questions
after people have read and reviewed the source? Does nobody care? Do
people not know how to read C?
Tom, you're a project admin of the AOLserver project at SourceForge
and have been for years, now. You've had CVS commit access for as long
as I can remember. The only commit I can find from you
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) *ever* is this one:
RCS file: /cvsroot/aolserver/aolserver/nsd/tclresp.c,v
Working file: nsd/tclresp.c
head: 1.21
branch:
locks: strict
access list:
keyword substitution: kv
total revisions: 24;selected revisions: 1
description:
revision 1.21
date: 2007/01/22 03:23:15; author: rmadilo; state: Exp; lines: +3 -2
Bug where Tcl_SetBooleanObj accesses shared object, fixed with copy of obj
This appears to be a change first made in the NaviServer project (see:
nsd/tclresp.c 1.12). Reviewing the diff of your change, we see:
$ cvs diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 nsd/tclresp.c
Index: nsd/tclresp.c
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/aolserver/aolserver/nsd/tclresp.c,v
retrieving revision 1.20
retrieving revision 1.21
diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21
--- nsd/tclresp.c 7 Oct 2005 00:48:23 - 1.20
+++ nsd/tclresp.c 22 Jan 2007 03:23:15 - 1.21
@@ -34,7 +34,7 @@
* Tcl commands for returning data to the user agent.
*/
-static const char *RCSID = @(#) $Header:
/cvsroot/aolserver/aolserver/nsd/tclresp.c,v 1.20 2005/10/07 00:48:23 dossy Exp
$, compiled: __DATE__ __TIME__;
+static const char *RCSID = @(#) $Header:
/cvsroot/aolserver/aolserver/nsd/tclresp.c,v 1.21 2007/01/22 03:23:15 rmadilo
Exp $, compiled: __DATE__ __TIME__;
#include nsd.h
@@ -837,6 +837,7 @@
static int
Result(Tcl_Interp *interp, int result)
{
-Tcl_SetBooleanObj(Tcl_GetObjResult(interp), result == NS_OK ? 1 : 0);
+/* Tcl_SetBooleanObj(Tcl_GetObjResult(interp), result == NS_OK ? 1 : 0); */
+Tcl_SetObjResult(interp, Tcl_NewBooleanObj((result == NS_OK ? 1 : 0)));
return TCL_OK;
}
Considering interps aren't shared between threads, exactly what shared
object is your commit log referring to, here? I mostly ignored asking
this question when the commit first happened, but I'm now curious: where
did this contribution originate?
I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Better I think to add them (commented out if need be) the default config file that ships with 4.5. I searched the documentation and couldn't find any mention of the new setup (until someone pointed it out) but plenty of talk about the old ones. I think it's in the release notes, but nobody reads those ;^) - Ian On 7/30/07, Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of the biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to resolve this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if other folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing people from helping out? - n On 8/1/07, Ian Harding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Better I think to add them (commented out if need be) the default config file that ships with 4.5. I searched the documentation and couldn't find any mention of the new setup (until someone pointed it out) but plenty of talk about the old ones. I think it's in the release notes, but nobody reads those ;^) - Ian On 7/30/07, Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
We should stay away from running commands in the cfg - the server has
not fully started and the main thread is not initialized yet.
I think the best way to manage this change is to run the ns_pools
set default command from the init.tcl and use the cfg params. That
makes it backwards compatible.
If folks agree - I can add that to the head today.
M
On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:54 AM, Tom Jackson wrote:
Nathan,
This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for
AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands
inside the
config file to set this?
Since some have called for examples, would it be possible for the
author of
these changes to provide a few. I have been using the threadpool
configuration as shown in this example (start at server.tcl, then
source
threadpool files):
From: http://rmadilo.com/m2/servers/rmadilo/config/
# threadpool-default.tcl
# Single Threadpool
# pool = default
ns_section ns/server/${server}/pool/$pool
ns_param maxconnections100
ns_param minthreads4 ;# 0
ns_param maxthreads10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map GET /
ns_param map POST /
tom jackson
On Thursday 26 July 2007 08:53, Nathan Folkman wrote:
You'd actually want to do it by adding the following to the end of
your
configuration file:
ns_pools set procsmsgmgr -maxconns 100 -maxthreads 20 -
minthreads 10
-timeout 10
ns_pools register procsmsgmgr server1 POST /proc/msgmgr
You can then verify that everything worked via the AOLserver
control port:
server1:nscp 1 ns_pools list
procsmsgmgr default error
server1:nscp 2 ns_server threads procsmsgmgr
{min 10} {max 20} {current 10} {idle 10} {stopping 0}
server1:nscp 3 ns_pools get procsmsgmgr
minthreads 10 maxthreads 20 idle 10 current 10 maxconns 100
queued 0
timeout 10
Hope that helps!
- n
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Nathan for the info. I'm trying to configure a pool but
ns_server
threads procmsgmgr returns error on server log.
[26/Jul/2007:18:06:07][4968.3074280352][-conn:0-] Error: Tcl
exception:
no such pool: procmsgmgr
while executing
ns_server threads procmsgmgr
#
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pools
ns_param procmsgmgr Message Manager Receiving Pool
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pool/procmsgmgr
ns_param map {POST /proc/msgmgr}
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 20
ns_param minthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout60
Can you tell if my configuration is correct?
regards,
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools
Tcl
command:
ns_pools:
The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more
pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow
certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This
could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests
don't block other short running requests. Pools are
selected
based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed
by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all
requests
are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There
is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with
the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
See also the new ns_limits command:
ns_limit:
The ns_limit command enables setting various resource
limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits
include such items as max concurrent connections, max file
upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection
processing.
When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately
dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing
pool to generate a quick error response. By default all
requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the
new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its 4.5.0
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What version of AOLserver are you running?
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default)
I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below:
ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to
put on
queue
ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping
too
many conns
ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this
rate
ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10.
Server Threads
min0
max10
current1
idle0
stopping0
I'm not sure what i'm missing here.
regards,
shedi
--
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Yes and no. ;)
Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command
(ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But
I agree, it is different.
Here's the deal, a decision was made a while back to try some new things
with AOLserver 4.5, some of which we knew wouldn't be backwards compatible.
Thread pools and limits are two pretty radical changes that were made to the
core.
Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally
here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some
backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we
haven't.
I'll try and update the default configuration file with some examples soon.
Sorry for the confusion.
- n
On 8/1/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nathan,
This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for
AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the
config file to set this?
Since some have called for examples, would it be possible for the author
of
these changes to provide a few. I have been using the threadpool
configuration as shown in this example (start at server.tcl, then source
threadpool files):
From: http://rmadilo.com/m2/servers/rmadilo/config/
# threadpool-default.tcl
# Single Threadpool
# pool = default
ns_section ns/server/${server}/pool/$pool
ns_param maxconnections100
ns_param minthreads4 ;# 0
ns_param maxthreads10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map GET /
ns_param map POST /
tom jackson
On Thursday 26 July 2007 08:53, Nathan Folkman wrote:
You'd actually want to do it by adding the following to the end of your
configuration file:
ns_pools set procsmsgmgr -maxconns 100 -maxthreads 20 -minthreads 10
-timeout 10
ns_pools register procsmsgmgr server1 POST /proc/msgmgr
You can then verify that everything worked via the AOLserver control
port:
server1:nscp 1 ns_pools list
procsmsgmgr default error
server1:nscp 2 ns_server threads procsmsgmgr
{min 10} {max 20} {current 10} {idle 10} {stopping 0}
server1:nscp 3 ns_pools get procsmsgmgr
minthreads 10 maxthreads 20 idle 10 current 10 maxconns 100 queued 0
timeout 10
Hope that helps!
- n
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Nathan for the info. I'm trying to configure a pool but
ns_server
threads procmsgmgr returns error on server log.
[26/Jul/2007:18:06:07][4968.3074280352][-conn:0-] Error: Tcl
exception:
no such pool: procmsgmgr
while executing
ns_server threads procmsgmgr
#
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pools
ns_param procmsgmgr Message Manager Receiving Pool
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pool/procmsgmgr
ns_param map {POST /proc/msgmgr}
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 20
ns_param minthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout60
Can you tell if my configuration is correct?
regards,
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl
command:
ns_pools:
The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more
pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow
certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This
could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests
don't block other short running requests. Pools are
selected
based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed
by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all requests
are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There
is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with
the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
See also the new ns_limits command:
ns_limit:
The ns_limit command enables setting various resource
limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits
include such items as max concurrent connections, max file
upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection processing.
When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately
dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing
pool to generate a quick error response. By default all
requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the
new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its 4.5.0
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What version of AOLserver are you running?
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Nathan, This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the config file to set this? This is absolutely crazy. The init file has never required dynamic execution of procs to work, and to have something this basic as an exception is nuts. Not to mention that breaking every bloody site's config file in the process is rather rude. Some of us still use AOLserver for production sites, hard as that is to believe. Was there community discussion of this change before it was implemented? It represents a huge change in configuration philosophy. Who's bright idea was this? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I think lack of process is a big deterrent. How do changes get rolled into releases, what are the coding standards, is there a review process, etc. On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Nathan Folkman wrote: You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of the biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to resolve this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if other folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing people from helping out? - n On 8/1/07, Ian Harding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Better I think to add them (commented out if need be) the default config file that ships with 4.5. I searched the documentation and couldn't find any mention of the new setup (until someone pointed it out) but plenty of talk about the old ones. I think it's in the release notes, but nobody reads those ;^) - Ian On 7/30/07, Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of the biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to resolve this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if other folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing people from helping out? So, if I'm not mistaken, not only were existing config files broken, the basic philosophy of how AOLserver is configured changed for this important case (dynamic proc call), but ... There's not even any documentation telling people this? Something this significant shouldn't be implemented without documentation, and frankly, it's the developer's responsibility to make sure it's done. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I think the best way to manage this change is to run the ns_pools set default command from the init.tcl and use the cfg params. That makes it backwards compatible. If folks agree - I can add that to the head today. Sounds reasonable to this hacker. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Yep, the documentationn or lack there of, continues to dog us. Did you read the release notes at least? It doesn't specifically mention this incompatibility, but does contain a lot of useful information. On 8/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of the biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to resolve this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if other folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing people from helping out? So, if I'm not mistaken, not only were existing config files broken, the basic philosophy of how AOLserver is configured changed for this important case (dynamic proc call), but ... There's not even any documentation telling people this? Something this significant shouldn't be implemented without documentation, and frankly, it's the developer's responsibility to make sure it's done. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
What about just contributing documentation? What is making that hard? On 8/1/07, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think lack of process is a big deterrent. How do changes get rolled into releases, what are the coding standards, is there a review process, etc. On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Nathan Folkman wrote: You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of the biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to resolve this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if other folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing people from helping out? - n On 8/1/07, Ian Harding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Better I think to add them (commented out if need be) the default config file that ships with 4.5. I searched the documentation and couldn't find any mention of the new setup (until someone pointed it out) but plenty of talk about the old ones. I think it's in the release notes, but nobody reads those ;^) - Ian On 7/30/07, Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
As I said before, if you have issues with the changes made in 4.5, simply do not upgrade. There were a number of factors that led to our decision to release as we did, when we did. Unfortunately a lot of the backwards compatibility work never got completed. Sorry. On 8/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
The idea of thread pools and allowing the dynamic changing of pool settings is a great addition to the code base. The failures here were 1) communication, 2) backward compatibility of the config settings. I have no disagreement with this, at all. As Nathan and I pointed out - it would not be a good idea to execute the ns_pools set default command in the server config - but rather in a Tcl file after the server starts - and use the cfg params. This should have been added to the init.tcl file (where the Tcl files get sourced) before the release. Once Nathan, Dossy, and I have a chance to talk - I will add this to the HEAD, document, and send email. Makes a lot of sense, thanks. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Simple answer - don't upgrade to 4.5. As I was trying to explain before, we knew some things in 4.5 would not be backwards compatible. On 8/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan, This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the config file to set this? This is absolutely crazy. The init file has never required dynamic execution of procs to work, and to have something this basic as an exception is nuts. Not to mention that breaking every bloody site's config file in the process is rather rude. Some of us still use AOLserver for production sites, hard as that is to believe. Was there community discussion of this change before it was implemented? It represents a huge change in configuration philosophy. Who's bright idea was this? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I'm currently away on vacation this week (in Ocean City, MD) and writing long emails on the Treo isn't exactly fun, so I'll keep this short: 1. It's my fault that 4.5 has the pools/limits functionality. I didn't do a good enough job communicating to everyone about the change. I haven't done a good enough job organizing the direction of the project in general. I'm very sorry about this. 2. 4.5 is a major dot-release from 4.0. Matter of fact, we skipped 4.1--4.4 to indicate the magnitude of change that the 4.5 release tree will represent. We are long overdue for significant technical improvements to AOLserver. I, however, do not want this to leave people behind. In time, I do hope to see both a migration guide and backwards compat. code to be authored to ease transition. 4.5.0 is really bleeding edge--sorry. 3. This project really could use more contributors. Especially a semi-serious tech. writer would be a huge help. How do you attract a tech. writer to contribute to an open source project? Suggestions? I'll go through all the good suggestions and comments in this email thread when I'm back in front of a real keyboard, but I didn't want my silence to appear as indifference in the matter: I care a great deal and really think if we can get people excited again, we can start seeing real progress. -- Dossy -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I mostly sympathize with your sentiments. Incompatible changes should be documented. And design documents directions for AOLServer belong in public on the AOLServer wiki, not hidden. I.e., if when someone decided this was a good idea, there was an experimental features page for 4.5 that outlined the idea, that would at least form the basis for (a) docs, and (b) community discussion. If someone (like you or me) needed that backward compatibility, we could contribute it. At present, it still seems like the docs we see on the wiki are either generated from long-ago internal documentation, or not written at all. And as for roadmaps: Your search - roadmap - did not match any documents. However, I would like to point out that one of the real problems with the AOLServer community for a while was its perceived inability to pick up innovations. Discouraging change from inside AOL is only going to make the problem worse. We should be encouraging experimentation -- but with community feedback. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:57 AM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I would just like to point out that 4.5 was released over one year ago, so the cat is already out of the bag. But more important: it seems like this is not really a problem. The old configuration can still be used. All we need is a script which reads the configuration data and runs the new commands. Is there a command reference anywhere, or could someone provide a simple example of use? If so, I can write a script and try to figure out where it should go so that it executes at the correct time. When is this time anyway? Apparently it is not during the sourcing of the config file. tom jackson On Wednesday 01 August 2007 09:33, Nathan Folkman wrote: As I said before, if you have issues with the changes made in 4.5, simply do not upgrade. There were a number of factors that led to our decision to release as we did, when we did. Unfortunately a lot of the backwards compatibility work never got completed. Sorry. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
But did the community at large? Were these roadmaps and experiments only discussed internally @ AOL? Again, I want to _encourage_ you guys to make these changes; I just want to know when they're happening and have some idea of why. Thanks -- -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nathan Folkman Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:24 AM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command Simple answer - don't upgrade to 4.5. As I was trying to explain before, we knew some things in 4.5 would not be backwards compatible. On 8/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan, This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the config file to set this? This is absolutely crazy. The init file has never required dynamic execution of procs to work, and to have something this basic as an exception is nuts. Not to mention that breaking every bloody site's config file in the process is rather rude. Some of us still use AOLserver for production sites, hard as that is to believe. Was there community discussion of this change before it was implemented? It represents a huge change in configuration philosophy. Who's bright idea was this? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Please accept one apology for this email: my search for roadmap was limited to aolserver.com, which does not include the wiki. There was a 4.5 roadmap on the wiki, which is what I was asking for. Unfortunately, the map does not point out the potholes any better than the release notes do. Thank you -- -- ReC -Original Message- From: Rick Cobb Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:04 AM To: 'AOLserver Discussion' Subject: RE: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command I mostly sympathize with your sentiments. Incompatible changes should be documented. And design documents directions for AOLServer belong in public on the AOLServer wiki, not hidden. I.e., if when someone decided this was a good idea, there was an experimental features page for 4.5 that outlined the idea, that would at least form the basis for (a) docs, and (b) community discussion. If someone (like you or me) needed that backward compatibility, we could contribute it. At present, it still seems like the docs we see on the wiki are either generated from long-ago internal documentation, or not written at all. And as for roadmaps: Your search - roadmap - did not match any documents. However, I would like to point out that one of the real problems with the AOLServer community for a while was its perceived inability to pick up innovations. Discouraging change from inside AOL is only going to make the problem worse. We should be encouraging experimentation -- but with community feedback. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:57 AM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I think we did actually talk about some of the stuff that was coming down the pipe when we used to have those AOLserver chats. Not sure what happened to those. I personally haven't been officially assigned to AOLserver support for a while now. - n On 8/1/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To be honest and blunt, the community process in terms of AOLserver is rather broken, and has been for some time. The 4.5 work was done in-house here at AOL, and with limited community involvement. A lot of the experimental features were added to deal with specific scaling challenges we knew we would be facing here. When decided to go ahead and release 4.5, the thought was that we would eventually finish up any backwards compatibility work that needed to be done. We also assumed that if there were issues, people would simply hold off on upgrading, or work around the issues. Would documentation have helped - of course. Would a roadmap be useful - definitely. Agree with everything you, and others are saying, but we're not there yet. Sorry. - n On 8/1/07, Rick Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mostly sympathize with your sentiments. Incompatible changes should be documented. And design documents directions for AOLServer belong in public on the AOLServer wiki, not hidden. I.e., if when someone decided this was a good idea, there was an experimental features page for 4.5 that outlined the idea, that would at least form the basis for (a) docs, and (b) community discussion. If someone (like you or me) needed that backward compatibility, we could contribute it. At present, it still seems like the docs we see on the wiki are either generated from long-ago internal documentation, or not written at all. And as for roadmaps: Your search - roadmap - did not match any documents. However, I would like to point out that one of the real problems with the AOLServer community for a while was its perceived inability to pick up innovations. Discouraging change from inside AOL is only going to make the problem worse. We should be encouraging experimentation -- but with community feedback. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:57 AM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
To be honest and blunt, the community process in terms of AOLserver is rather broken, and has been for some time. The 4.5 work was done in-house here at AOL, and with limited community involvement. A lot of the experimental features were added to deal with specific scaling challenges we knew we would be facing here. When decided to go ahead and release 4.5, the thought was that we would eventually finish up any backwards compatibility work that needed to be done. We also assumed that if there were issues, people would simply hold off on upgrading, or work around the issues. Would documentation have helped - of course. Would a roadmap be useful - definitely. Agree with everything you, and others are saying, but we're not there yet. Sorry. - n On 8/1/07, Rick Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mostly sympathize with your sentiments. Incompatible changes should be documented. And design documents directions for AOLServer belong in public on the AOLServer wiki, not hidden. I.e., if when someone decided this was a good idea, there was an experimental features page for 4.5 that outlined the idea, that would at least form the basis for (a) docs, and (b) community discussion. If someone (like you or me) needed that backward compatibility, we could contribute it. At present, it still seems like the docs we see on the wiki are either generated from long-ago internal documentation, or not written at all. And as for roadmaps: Your search - roadmap - did not match any documents. However, I would like to point out that one of the real problems with the AOLServer community for a while was its perceived inability to pick up innovations. Discouraging change from inside AOL is only going to make the problem worse. We should be encouraging experimentation -- but with community feedback. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:57 AM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. But I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Bingo - Michael Andrews just contributed such a script. - n On 8/1/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would just like to point out that 4.5 was released over one year ago, so the cat is already out of the bag. But more important: it seems like this is not really a problem. The old configuration can still be used. All we need is a script which reads the configuration data and runs the new commands. Is there a command reference anywhere, or could someone provide a simple example of use? If so, I can write a script and try to figure out where it should go so that it executes at the correct time. When is this time anyway? Apparently it is not during the sourcing of the config file. tom jackson On Wednesday 01 August 2007 09:33, Nathan Folkman wrote: As I said before, if you have issues with the changes made in 4.5, simply do not upgrade. There were a number of factors that led to our decision to release as we did, when we did. Unfortunately a lot of the backwards compatibility work never got completed. Sorry. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
see the file modules/tcl/pools.tcl. It has been added to the HEAD. I will let Dossy and Nate decide how this should be tagged. Michael On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Nathan Folkman wrote: Bingo - Michael Andrews just contributed such a script. - n On 8/1/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would just like to point out that 4.5 was released over one year ago, so the cat is already out of the bag. But more important: it seems like this is not really a problem. The old configuration can still be used. All we need is a script which reads the configuration data and runs the new commands. Is there a command reference anywhere, or could someone provide a simple example of use? If so, I can write a script and try to figure out where it should go so that it executes at the correct time. When is this time anyway? Apparently it is not during the sourcing of the config file. tom jackson On Wednesday 01 August 2007 09:33, Nathan Folkman wrote: As I said before, if you have issues with the changes made in 4.5, simply do not upgrade. There were a number of factors that led to our decision to release as we did, when we did. Unfortunately a lot of the backwards compatibility work never got completed. Sorry. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
I have added additional code for handling the old style (not too old)
which allows you to set up threadpools for specific methods + url patterns.
Also, I think there is a bug in the new pools.tcl file. The original
maxconnections parameter was
changed to maxconns, can anyone verify that the old param was (and should be)
maxconnections?
The following info was taken from my error.log after startup using the new
pools.tcl file.
# Example:
ns_section ns/server/jnm
ns_param maxconnections 5
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 5
ns_param minthreads 5
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_section ns/server/jnm/pool/fast
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param minthreads 2
ns_param maxthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.jpg}
ns_param map {GET /images/*-thumb.jpg}
ns_section ns/server/jnm/pools
ns_param fast {fast pool}
ns_section ns/server/tutos
ns_param maxconnections 6
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 6
ns_param minthreads 6
ns_param threadtimeout 126
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pool/default
ns_param maxconnections 99
ns_param minthreads 4
ns_param maxthreads 11
ns_param threadtimeout 123
ns_param map {GET /}
ns_param map {POST /}
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pool/fast
ns_param maxconnections 101
ns_param minthreads 3
ns_param maxthreads 11
ns_param threadtimeout 125
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.jpg}
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.gif}
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pools
ns_param default {default pool}
ns_param fast {fast pool}
During startup, the following is printed to the error.log file:
[-main-] Notice: Default Pool: minthreads 5 maxthreads 5 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 5 queued 0 timeout 120
[-main-] Notice: fast Pool: minthreads 2 maxthreads 10 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 100 queued 0 timeout 120
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast jnm GET /*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast jnm GET /images/*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: Default Pool: minthreads 6 maxthreads 6 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 6 queued 0 timeout 126
[-main-] Notice: default Pool: minthreads 4 maxthreads 11 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 99 queued 0 timeout 123
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered default tutos GET /
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered default tutos POST /
[-main-] Notice: fast Pool: minthreads 3 maxthreads 11 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 101 queued 0 timeout 125
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast tutos GET /*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast tutos GET /*-thumb.gif
-
Here is my pools.tcl file:
set cfgsection ns/server/[ns_info server]
set minthreads [ns_config $cfgsection minthreads 0]
set maxthreads [ns_config $cfgsection maxthreads 10]
set maxconns [ns_config $cfgsection maxconnections 0]
set timeout [ns_config $cfgsection threadtimeout 0]
ns_pools set default -minthreads $minthreads -maxthreads $maxthreads -maxconns
$maxconns -timeout $timeout
ns_log Notice Default Pool: [ns_pools get default]
# Setup optional threadpools
set poolSection $cfgsection/pools
set poolSet [ns_configsection $poolSection]
if {$poolSet ne } {
set poolSize [ns_set size $poolSet]
for {set i 0} {$i $poolSize} {incr i} {
set poolName [ns_set key $poolSet $i]
set poolDescription [ns_set value $poolSet $i]
set poolConfigSection ns/server/[ns_info server]/pool/$poolName
set poolConfigSet [ns_configsection $poolConfigSection]
if {$poolConfigSet eq } {
continue
}
set poolMinthreads [ns_config $poolConfigSection minthreads $minthreads]
set poolMaxthreads [ns_config $poolConfigSection maxthreads $maxthreads]
set poolMaxconns [ns_config $poolConfigSection maxconnections
$maxconns]
set poolTimeout[ns_config $poolConfigSection threadtimeout $timeout]
ns_pools set $poolName -minthreads $poolMinthreads -maxthreads
$poolMaxthreads -maxconns $poolMaxconns -timeout $poolTimeout
ns_log Notice $poolName Pool: [ns_pools get $poolName]
set poolConfigSize [ns_set size $poolConfigSet]
for {set j 0} {$j $poolConfigSize} {incr j} {
if {[string tolower [ns_set key $poolConfigSet $j]] eq map} {
set mapList [split [ns_set value $poolConfigSet $j]]
set poolMethod [lindex $mapList 0]
set poolPattern [lindex $mapList 1]
ns_pools register $poolName [ns_info server] $poolMethod
$poolPattern
ns_log Notice ns_pools registered $poolName [ns_info server]
$poolMethod $poolPattern
}
}
}
}
-
tom jackson
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 10:50, Nathan Folkman wrote:
Bingo - Michael Andrews just contributed such a script.
- n
On 8/1/07, Tom
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Awesome! Thanks! :)
- n
On 8/1/07, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have added additional code for handling the old style (not too old)
which allows you to set up threadpools for specific methods + url
patterns.
Also, I think there is a bug in the new pools.tcl file. The original
maxconnections parameter was
changed to maxconns, can anyone verify that the old param was (and should
be) maxconnections?
The following info was taken from my error.log after startup using the new
pools.tcl file.
# Example:
ns_section ns/server/jnm
ns_param maxconnections 5
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 5
ns_param minthreads 5
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_section ns/server/jnm/pool/fast
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param minthreads 2
ns_param maxthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout 120
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.jpg}
ns_param map {GET /images/*-thumb.jpg}
ns_section ns/server/jnm/pools
ns_param fast {fast pool}
ns_section ns/server/tutos
ns_param maxconnections 6
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 6
ns_param minthreads 6
ns_param threadtimeout 126
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pool/default
ns_param maxconnections 99
ns_param minthreads 4
ns_param maxthreads 11
ns_param threadtimeout 123
ns_param map {GET /}
ns_param map {POST /}
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pool/fast
ns_param maxconnections 101
ns_param minthreads 3
ns_param maxthreads 11
ns_param threadtimeout 125
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.jpg}
ns_param map {GET /*-thumb.gif}
ns_section ns/server/tutos/pools
ns_param default {default pool}
ns_param fast {fast pool}
During startup, the following is printed to the error.log file:
[-main-] Notice: Default Pool: minthreads 5 maxthreads 5 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 5 queued 0 timeout 120
[-main-] Notice: fast Pool: minthreads 2 maxthreads 10 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 100 queued 0 timeout 120
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast jnm GET /*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast jnm GET /images/*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: Default Pool: minthreads 6 maxthreads 6 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 6 queued 0 timeout 126
[-main-] Notice: default Pool: minthreads 4 maxthreads 11 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 99 queued 0 timeout 123
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered default tutos GET /
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered default tutos POST /
[-main-] Notice: fast Pool: minthreads 3 maxthreads 11 idle 0 current 0
maxconns 101 queued 0 timeout 125
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast tutos GET /*-thumb.jpg
[-main-] Notice: ns_pools registered fast tutos GET /*-thumb.gif
-
Here is my pools.tcl file:
set cfgsection ns/server/[ns_info server]
set minthreads [ns_config $cfgsection minthreads 0]
set maxthreads [ns_config $cfgsection maxthreads 10]
set maxconns [ns_config $cfgsection maxconnections 0]
set timeout [ns_config $cfgsection threadtimeout 0]
ns_pools set default -minthreads $minthreads -maxthreads $maxthreads
-maxconns $maxconns -timeout $timeout
ns_log Notice Default Pool: [ns_pools get default]
# Setup optional threadpools
set poolSection $cfgsection/pools
set poolSet [ns_configsection $poolSection]
if {$poolSet ne } {
set poolSize [ns_set size $poolSet]
for {set i 0} {$i $poolSize} {incr i} {
set poolName [ns_set key $poolSet $i]
set poolDescription [ns_set value $poolSet $i]
set poolConfigSection ns/server/[ns_info server]/pool/$poolName
set poolConfigSet [ns_configsection $poolConfigSection]
if {$poolConfigSet eq } {
continue
}
set poolMinthreads [ns_config $poolConfigSection minthreads
$minthreads]
set poolMaxthreads [ns_config $poolConfigSection maxthreads
$maxthreads]
set poolMaxconns [ns_config $poolConfigSection maxconnections
$maxconns]
set poolTimeout[ns_config $poolConfigSection threadtimeout
$timeout]
ns_pools set $poolName -minthreads $poolMinthreads -maxthreads
$poolMaxthreads -maxconns $poolMaxconns -timeout $poolTimeout
ns_log Notice $poolName Pool: [ns_pools get $poolName]
set poolConfigSize [ns_set size $poolConfigSet]
for {set j 0} {$j $poolConfigSize} {incr j} {
if {[string tolower [ns_set key $poolConfigSet $j]] eq map}
{
set mapList [split [ns_set value $poolConfigSet $j]]
set poolMethod [lindex $mapList 0]
set poolPattern [lindex $mapList 1]
ns_pools register $poolName [ns_info server] $poolMethod
$poolPattern
ns_log Notice ns_pools registered $poolName [ns_info
server] $poolMethod $poolPattern
}
}
}
}
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Dossy, Sounds like a great goal, but there are still other considerations: 1. Even if the server tunes itself, it needs to start somewhere 2. Hard coding defaults already makes it difficult to figure out what the settings are because usually the programmers don't update the config 'data structure' when the default is triggered by a missing value. So getting the value now requires writing a specific accessor. Getting the settings is very important to diagnosing certain issues, like one I will discuss below related to ns_pools. 3. When a server has tuned itself up, it might be helpful to remember these settings during a restart, so storage is still a good idea. 4. Removing the ability to use fixed values, that is human tuning, seems like a sure road to disaster. 5. If all settings are dynamic, then every time they are accessed you need a mutex or maybe even a cond. Problem with ns_pools: Pools are named. Only the pool name is used to create a pointer to the pool. However, then the pool pointer is stored using Ns_UrlSpecificSet which can take into account the server. The result is that virtual servers using the same pool name overwrite the previous data. The new pools.tcl file iterates once per virtual server, but uses the same pool name, the last one loaded updates the previous pool settings. Probably several function should take into account the virtual server, or somehow explain this. Regardless, the result is that one server can change settings for another server. You are not able to query the maps associated with a pool. If the data is only set via the ns_pools command, this information is completely unavailble. It also cannot be deleted. The query function would be available if derived from a config file setting. tom jackson On Wednesday 01 August 2007 17:31, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess adding the ability to manage pools from the config does not take anything away from the ability ALSO manage pools from a package/ module. Gives folks a choice. One of the ideas for AOLserver 5.0 is to eliminate most of the static config-time parameters and make as much as possible tunable at runtime. The notion of having to bounce the entire process to make certain config changes can be disruptive, operationally--especially when you have large libraries of pre-sourced Tcl scripts which makes server startup expensive. The natural segue with most settings changeable at runtime is a body of intelligent code that self-tunes and dynamically heals the server (ala Oracle's clusterware, etc.). I'd love to get AOLserver the point where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the workload it's receiving. -- Dossy -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
To clarify - The pools.tcl file I wrote serves ONE purpose. To set the default pool's params to what is in the server config. This was ONLY done because folks expected the default pool to be set at start up using the config params... as it was in 4.0.10. My opinion is that any OTHER pools should be created and managed by Tcl Modules and or Tcl Packages, not the server config. M On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:56 PM, Tom Jackson wrote: Dossy, Sounds like a great goal, but there are still other considerations: 1. Even if the server tunes itself, it needs to start somewhere 2. Hard coding defaults already makes it difficult to figure out what the settings are because usually the programmers don't update the config 'data structure' when the default is triggered by a missing value. So getting the value now requires writing a specific accessor. Getting the settings is very important to diagnosing certain issues, like one I will discuss below related to ns_pools. 3. When a server has tuned itself up, it might be helpful to remember these settings during a restart, so storage is still a good idea. 4. Removing the ability to use fixed values, that is human tuning, seems like a sure road to disaster. 5. If all settings are dynamic, then every time they are accessed you need a mutex or maybe even a cond. Problem with ns_pools: Pools are named. Only the pool name is used to create a pointer to the pool. However, then the pool pointer is stored using Ns_UrlSpecificSet which can take into account the server. The result is that virtual servers using the same pool name overwrite the previous data. The new pools.tcl file iterates once per virtual server, but uses the same pool name, the last one loaded updates the previous pool settings. Probably several function should take into account the virtual server, or somehow explain this. Regardless, the result is that one server can change settings for another server. You are not able to query the maps associated with a pool. If the data is only set via the ns_pools command, this information is completely unavailble. It also cannot be deleted. The query function would be available if derived from a config file setting. tom jackson On Wednesday 01 August 2007 17:31, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess adding the ability to manage pools from the config does not take anything away from the ability ALSO manage pools from a package/ module. Gives folks a choice. One of the ideas for AOLserver 5.0 is to eliminate most of the static config-time parameters and make as much as possible tunable at runtime. The notion of having to bounce the entire process to make certain config changes can be disruptive, operationally--especially when you have large libraries of pre-sourced Tcl scripts which makes server startup expensive. The natural segue with most settings changeable at runtime is a body of intelligent code that self-tunes and dynamically heals the server (ala Oracle's clusterware, etc.). I'd love to get AOLserver the point where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the workload it's receiving. -- Dossy -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
My opinion is that any OTHER pools should be created and managed by Tcl Modules and or Tcl Packages, not the server config. So backwards compatibility with virtual servers disappears, then. One of the hallmarks of AOLserver has always been ease of configuration. My sense is that we're drifting away from that? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Probably would be that difficult, although honestly not a priority for anyone here. Have at it! ;) - n On 7/30/07, Jeff Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Nathan Folkman wrote: Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: This issue keeps coming up. How hard would it be to add in (for the next point release) compatibility code in init.tcl to parse the old-style parameters? -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
What version of AOLserver are you running? On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default) I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below: ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on queue ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too many conns ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this rate ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10. Server Threads min0 max10 current1 idle0 stopping0 I'm not sure what i'm missing here. regards, shedi -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl command: ns_pools: The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests don't block other short running requests. Pools are selected based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all requests are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for sophisticated resource management. See also the new ns_limits command: ns_limit: The ns_limit command enables setting various resource limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits include such items as max concurrent connections, max file upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection processing. When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing pool to generate a quick error response. By default all requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for sophisticated resource management. On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its 4.5.0 On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What version of AOLserver are you running? On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default) I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below: ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on queue ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too many conns ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this rate ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10. Server Threads min0 max10 current1 idle0 stopping0 I'm not sure what i'm missing here. regards, shedi -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Thanks Nathan for the info. I'm trying to configure a pool but ns_server
threads procmsgmgr returns error on server log.
[26/Jul/2007:18:06:07][4968.3074280352][-conn:0-] Error: Tcl exception:
no such pool: procmsgmgr
while executing
ns_server threads procmsgmgr
#
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pools
ns_param procmsgmgr Message Manager Receiving Pool
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pool/procmsgmgr
ns_param map {POST /proc/msgmgr}
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 20
ns_param minthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout60
Can you tell if my configuration is correct?
regards,
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl
command:
ns_pools:
The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more
pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow
certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This
could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests
don't block other short running requests. Pools are selected
based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed
by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all requests
are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There
is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with
the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for sophisticated
resource management.
See also the new ns_limits command:
ns_limit:
The ns_limit command enables setting various resource
limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits
include such items as max concurrent connections, max file
upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection processing.
When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately
dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing
pool to generate a quick error response. By default all
requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the
new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its 4.5.0
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What version of AOLserver are you running?
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default)
I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below:
ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on
queue
ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too
many conns
ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this rate
ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10.
Server Threads
min0
max10
current1
idle0
stopping0
I'm not sure what i'm missing here.
regards,
shedi
--
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PROTECTED] with the
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Hi Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default) I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below: ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on queue ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too many conns ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this rate ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10. Server Threads min0 max10 current1 idle0 stopping0 I'm not sure what i'm missing here. regards, shedi -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
Its 4.5.0 On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What version of AOLserver are you running? On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default) I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below: ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on queue ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too many conns ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your server ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this rate ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10. Server Threads min0 max10 current1 idle0 stopping0 I'm not sure what i'm missing here. regards, shedi -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
You'd actually want to do it by adding the following to the end of your
configuration file:
ns_pools set procsmsgmgr -maxconns 100 -maxthreads 20 -minthreads 10
-timeout 10
ns_pools register procsmsgmgr server1 POST /proc/msgmgr
You can then verify that everything worked via the AOLserver control port:
server1:nscp 1 ns_pools list
procsmsgmgr default error
server1:nscp 2 ns_server threads procsmsgmgr
{min 10} {max 20} {current 10} {idle 10} {stopping 0}
server1:nscp 3 ns_pools get procsmsgmgr
minthreads 10 maxthreads 20 idle 10 current 10 maxconns 100 queued 0
timeout 10
Hope that helps!
- n
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Nathan for the info. I'm trying to configure a pool but ns_server
threads procmsgmgr returns error on server log.
[26/Jul/2007:18:06:07][4968.3074280352][-conn:0-] Error: Tcl exception:
no such pool: procmsgmgr
while executing
ns_server threads procmsgmgr
#
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pools
ns_param procmsgmgr Message Manager Receiving Pool
ns_section ns/server/${servername}/pool/procmsgmgr
ns_param map {POST /proc/msgmgr}
ns_param maxconnections 100
ns_param maxdropped 0
ns_param maxthreads 20
ns_param minthreads 10
ns_param threadtimeout60
Can you tell if my configuration is correct?
regards,
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those parameters moved and are now controlled via the ns_pools Tcl
command:
ns_pools:
The ns_pools command enables configuration of one or more
pools of connection processing threads. The pools allow
certain requests to be handled by specific threads. This
could, for example, ensure multiple long running requests
don't block other short running requests. Pools are selected
based on method/url pairs similar to the mappings managed
by the ns_register_proc command. By default, all requests
are handled by a single, unlimited, default pool. There
is also an error pool as described below. Coupled with
the new ns_limits command, pools can provide for sophisticated
resource management.
See also the new ns_limits command:
ns_limit:
The ns_limit command enables setting various resource
limits for specified method/url combinations. These limits
include such items as max concurrent connections, max file
upload size, and timeouts waiting for connection processing.
When limits are exceeded, connections are immediately
dispatched to a dedicated error connection processing
pool to generate a quick error response. By default all
requests share the same default limits. Coupled with the
new ns_pools command, URL-based limits can provide for
sophisticated resource management.
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its 4.5.0
On 7/26/07, Nathan Folkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What version of AOLserver are you running?
On 7/26/07, Shedi Shedi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
Patform: suse 10.1 (2.6.16.21-0.25-default)
I have configured my nsd config.tcl as below:
ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on
queue
ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too
many conns
ns_param maxthreads 50;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param minthreads 20 ;# Tune this to scale your
server
ns_param threadtimeout 30 ;# Idle threads die at this
rate
ns_server threads command shows the min as zero, max as 10.
Server Threads
min0
max10
current1
idle0
stopping0
I'm not sure what i'm missing here.
regards,
shedi
--
AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/
To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL
PROTECTED] with the
body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the
Subject: field of your email blank.
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
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PROTECTED] with the
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PROTECTED] with the
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