Limping Berner
My Amanda has been limping for a week. She is limping on her front right leg. She will put weight on it. It's bad when she wakes up but then after awhile, she doesn't limp at all. I have been giving her 1 baby aspirin a day. My problem is that she is terrified of going to the vet. I'll have to drag her through the door. I don't want to hurt her anymore then she already is. I don't feel any swelling or lumps. Amanda will be 7 in January. Any suggestions would be helpful. She has been resting for the past week, no walks but I have not confined her. The vet will put her on Rimydle. Is baby aspirin safer then Rimydle? Sorry I'm such a freak when one of my babies is hurt. She acts fine but I know berners are stoic. Thanks Betsy, Pete, Amanda and Remy Hopkinton MA
Re: Limping Berner
In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:02:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My problem is that she is terrified of going to the vet. Hi Betsy, I have an old girl who also HATES going into the vets office (LOVES the vet and the techs, HATES being IN the office). My vet, wonderful woman that she is, does her best to humor my tizzy girl and stress her as little as possible. So, she comes out to the car to examine her. She'll go so far as to draw blood or do a needle aspirate in the back of my Outback. When Kalie does have to go inside, say for an xray or lump removal, my vet arranges for me to bring her in just minutes before they're ready for her (instead of leaving her there for the day as they usually do). If pre-anesthetics are going to be used, she'll give the injection in the car and then Kalie and I will rest there until the drugs start taking affect, then I'll bring her into the office. So, give your vet a call...discuss with him/her Amanda's symptoms, how he'd want to evaluate her and how he might be able to doit with as little stress to her as possible. BTW~ Many dogs, including my Kalie, actually do settle down quite well once they're put in a crate in the hospital area...away from the hustle bustle of the office and away from their stressed owner. when Kalie had to stay for monitoring after a rabies vaccine (she's allergic to most vaccines), my vet let her rest in her office...Kalie was fine. I think she liked being 'special' g. Hope Amanda's just got a temporary ouch, -Sherri Venditti
In support of the Lobby Fund
forwarded for Terri Zimmerman. I have one of these candles and they are just beautiful! They would make a wonderful Christmas gift. Also, don't forget about the Signature calendars, that is also raising funds for the Lobby effort - http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/lsbmdc/2003Calendar.htm Pat --- Support the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America's Lobby effort by purchasing these limited edition candles. All profits go straight to the lobby fund so that our lobbyist can continue to move forward in pushing for the enforcement of the animal welfare laws. And in raising the awareness within the government and making contacts with those that will assist in the prevention of the mass importation of sick and malnourished dogs destined to be sold at auctions to the commercial breeding establishments and puppy mills. Please go to the http://bmdcgs.org/, click on BMDCA Lobby, then Store. We will ship these candles, complete with a card to you or as a gift to someone else. There are 3 candle designs: 3 x 3 pillar candle of a Bernese in an alpine scene $18.00 (Including postage) 3 x 6 inch pillar candle of a Bernese in an alpine scene $25.00 (Including postage) 3 x 6 inch pillar candle of a Bernese in an alpine scene with wildflowers dried pressed into the wax applied along the bottom of the candle $35.00 (Including postage) For additional questions on the candles please contact Susan Thompson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] To order your candle please specify which candle you would like to purchase and send your check made out to the BMDCGS. Mail to Susan Thompson PO Box 2047 Snohomish, WA. 98291-2047. Make sure to include your mailing address and/or the name and address of the person you would like the candle sent to. Be sure to purchase a yummy, fun Doggy Christmas Wreath for your favorite best friend(s) in support of the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America Lobby Fund. These handmade wreaths will be shipped right to your door or can be sent as a special gift to a friend. The wreaths are 12 inches in diameter and packed full of doggy treats. The materials for these wreaths were donated so that all proceeds will go straight to the lobby fund. Hurry and get your order in. These are popular items and will sell fast. Please note: All wreaths were handmade and no 2 are alike -- the toys are different, the ribbons are different, the treats might even be different. The pics are just examples of a few. Please let us select the one that will please your pooch! Each wreath is $30.00 including postage. For additional questions on the wreaths contact Dorothy Turley at BMD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To order your wreath(s) send a check or money order made out to BMDCGS and to Dorothy Turley, PO Box 673, Rochester, WA. 98579. Be sure to include your name, phone number and mailing address and the name and address of the friend you would like your wreath to be sent to. Terri Zimmerman, Zephyr, Zaltana, Kita Zodiac, gone from this earth but not from this heart. Washington State, USA Puget Sound with clouds, moss and lots of mud puddles. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: BERNER-L digest 4127
Hi ,Berner friends, I don,t post to often but with all those Bernese at the Philly show would there be anyone with some pictures they would like to share . Thanks Clarence P.E.I ,Canada Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List wrote: BERNER-L Digest 4127 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Female Incontenence by Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans by Jeff Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Philly Show Results by Maria Crifasi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: KY Jelly -- Vickey her Boy by Sharon Montville [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: breeders and scam (was guarantees/contracts) by david and sandra ongemach [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: Female Incontenence by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: xrays etc. by Sharon Montville [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: Philly Show Results by Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Sorry - dumb question -Dog show definitions by Gail Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) RE: Female Incontenence--DES in humans by Patricia McIlveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) RE: Sorry - dumb question by Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) RE: Philly Show Results by Andrea Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: Philly Show Results by Maria Crifasi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Female Incontinence by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) BMDCC Specialty Results from my catalog??? by Lisa Ebnet [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Does Nebraska have a minimum puppy age law? by Sharon Montville [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: BERNER-L digest 4125 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) RE: AKC Titles Website by Nancy Melone [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Thanks - by david and sandra ongemach [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Puppy Pics by Ray Pat Burgett [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) RE: BMDCA question; staying in touch by cpete [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Female Incontenence Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:58:44 -0500 From: Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Berner-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a female Collie in my pre-Berner days who was spayed at 6 months and by the time she was a year old, was experiencing spay related incontinence. She was put on DES. I was able to wean the original dose, which I cannot remember, down to one dose per month. She lived to age 13 and had no cancer or other DES related problems. Janice Parky My 7 year old girl was spayed just over a year ago. She occassionally will piddle when I scold her or if I want to groom her or even when I give her a belly rub. I checked with my vet and she does not have a UTI or any other illness. We discussed age/spay related incontenence and she prescribed Proin. My understanding that this is the same product (formerly names DES I believe)that was given to pregnant women years ago and whose daughters developed cancer. I hesitate to give my girl anything that has been proven to cause cancer. I would love to hear from anyone with any information on this product. I would rather deal with piddles than the fear of giving a cancer causing drug to my sweet Batty. Subject: Re: Female Incontenence--DES in humans Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:03:59 -0800 From: Jeff Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey Vilma, Don't make fun of the Mc Donalds coffee lawsuit attorney!: ) He lives in San Francisco. He contacted me for a puppy then later I called him about trouble I was having with my son's school and to my surprise instead of just giving me advice he took care of it for us free of charge! First time anyone had challenged the school district and won! He's actually a nice guy, and a great attorney to have available! Most big name lawyers would have been too busy, or not into such non-headline cases. Bernerly, Mary Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snobear.freeyellow.com Subject: Philly Show Results Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:15:25 -0500 From: Maria Crifasi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat Long -- would you check to see if I have this right? Maria, Daisy and The Budman *** Saturday Dogs - puppy #1 Decade's Shore Thing 12-18 month old dogs #1 Trevi's Prime contender Bred by Exhibitor #19 - Lewa's Zero Gravity Open dogs #1 - October The
Run in DOS mode.
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A excite game
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Re: Bloemart's
Let me try to be half civilized here... I can't help but to reply to this post, and I apologize ahead of time because I didn't see the original post for this. But I would have to disagree strongly about any references endorsing this breeder. I'll just share my little story: Our first berner that we bought, we bought blindly and yes, it was one of Bloemert's berners. We didn't know much about what we were doing and like many folks who are new to the breed and who are not as well educated, we bought the first puppy we saw. To top it off, a friend of my in-laws also bought a puppy from them. Both our puppies from day one have had health problems. We probably spent a large amount of money, including $1,200 for surgery when the berners were about 1 years old or younger. We were lucky, our berner only need surgery on one shoulder, but the other berner needed it in both shoulders. I don't agree with you that the temperments are good. If anything I would say it's more on the sharp side. In any litter, there can always be one or two really nice looking dogs. But nice looking doesn't say anything about their health. I would never encourage anyone to use this breeder and when I hear of people looking for breeders I try to warn them away from breeders like this one. When Max had his surgery, I sent e-mails, and none of them were returned nor responded to. The other owner also tried getting in contact with them with no luck. I went to two vets, one specialist, both of whom indicated that our dogs were pre-disposed to have this condition because of the age that they were first diagnosed. Then to top it off, the surgeon indicated to me that our dog may have vWd. So we pay to get all the blood work done and they said it came back inconclusive. However they can't explain why my dog bleeds so much and why he does not clot as well as other dogs. Now after all this, we thought long and hard on whether or not we wanted another berner. We were very skeptical and after the amount of money that we had put into vet bills for Max, were really didn't want to repeat that with another berner. So, we took a chance with another breeder. Here is a big difference between, in my own opinion, a good breeder and one who really doesn't care as long as the money is there. When we bought Patch, we thought we would never get him. The first puppy we had pick, there were some problems with and one of his testicles didn't drop. Liliane immediately contacted me and told me since I was looking for a show puppy she would not sell me this one unless his other one dropped. Then she contacted me and offered me another puppy who she thought was show quality, which I accepted because by this time I felt like I trusted her. Well, we finally got Patch here and from the day we got him, it was amazing to us the difference in quality between him as a puppy and Max as a puppy. Both VERY cute, but very different. Patch spends very little time at the vets and has a beautiful coat in comparison. Of course Patch is not without fault, he has those, but in terms of quality, I think he comes from a better breeder. I still am in contact with the breeder and she always wants to know how Patch is doing. I hardly think Max's breeder would care except that she got over $1,000 from us. Again, this is my story and my experience with the subject matter and I think it was long overdue. If anyone has any specific questions for me, please feel free to e-mail me privately. Karyn Waugh _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
ADMIN: Re: Bloemart's
I'd like us all to be very careful when posting about other people, owners, breeders, whatever. If you are posting about positive experiences, it's not an issue. But if you are posting about negative experiences, it can be very tricky. I don't want lawsuits threatened, I hate seeing that happen. It's happened with people on this List, and it always makes my temerature rise. Trust me - you do NOT want to be in the same geographical area with me when I get an email with a threat of a lawsuit in it. I find such a threat to be a particularly distasteful method of resolving differences. We have a breeder who is being discussed on the List. She is not a member of the Berner-L to my knowledge. She happens to have bred a dog that an owner is having some degree of diffulty with, and we have some people who are working with the owner to help provide support. We'll leave that situation alone. We have information that someone bought a puppy from this breeder and had many problems. We all know that can happen, and it can happen with any breeder. She also states that she emailed the breeder and got no response. That can happen too, computers break. People can also contact the Canadian Club Rescue Chair (or the BMDCA Rescue Chair) for information about a number of dogs that have entered rescue with no support from their breeders. Patterns can emerge very quickly to allow people to make assumptions about the level of support that they might expect from a breeder that refuses to assist rescue efforts of dogs that they have bred. And patterns can also emerge when a breeder has a large number of dogs that enter rescue, either from poor temperaments, health issues, or poor placements. If a breeder never has any of their dogs enter rescue, that also says something. Either they don't place many, or place well, or always take their dogs back (and do they keep them, rehome them, or destroy them?). It can still be difficult to make any valid assumptions. I'd love to see more public accounting for where the Rescue Funds that I help raise and donate actually go. I'd like to see the names of the dogs rescued, and whether the breeder a! ssisted or not. Some do, some don't. Gather information privately, and be very careful about what you spread publicly. Understand what is second hand information and what you know personally as fact based on your own experiences. And please, spare the negative comments and relay facts carefully. We have not yet come up with a good way to determine what makes a good breeder versus what makes a bad breeder, or who should make that sort of judgement. Even if we were able to distinguish, we haven't figured a way to share that information in a reasonable manner. We all want to see it, we all want to prevent other people from having the same problems that we've had, and we need to develop a means of doing that. Pat Long ( Luther) List Co-Owner Berwyn PA Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: Female Incontenence
Just wondering, what in the spay process (surgery, removal of hormones, etc.) seems to contribute to incontinence? As the owner of a newly spayed pup, I wasn't happy to read about that possibility... Anne
Re: BMDCA question; staying in touch
Mary Ann, I'm a few days late responding on this, but having just sent most of my first litter to their new homes, I find that my philosophy for the relationship with my puppies' new families and for keeping in touch is just like yours. I have decided that it is critical for me to set expectations up front with my potential homes. If they don't like some of my requirements, then most likely we will not be a good match. Would you be willing to share the questionnaire you send for followup? I haven't gotten to the point of creating my own yet. Thanks for such a great post on the importance of expectations and staying in touch. Staying in touch with puppy owners -- the first step is being very explicit about the expectations before placing a puppy. I spell things out to the potential owners -- what the contact looks like, how often I want to hear from them, what they can expect from me, and my rationale for maintaining contact. I let them know that not everyone wants that kind of relationship with a breeder, and while that is perfectly acceptable it is not how I do things. Any good relationship starts with clearly articulated expectations. --snip-- I try hard to be helpful and supportive to my puppy owners, without being intrusive. Finally, I do not have so many puppies that I cannot track them and care about each one -- and I never will because it is very important to me to maintain those connections -- Cheryl Brickach
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
I agree, Pat - EXCEPT - you need to go one step further and say that the dog then MUST be neutered. If my dogs can't gain a Championship, then they are not in my breeding program. Sorry, that's just how I wish my line to be continued. A pet is a pet - a show quality can meet my breeding requirements. To be recognized as having that show quality, IMHO, it must be shown and have a Championship. I know that many, if not most breeders do not follow the same rules, or requirements for themselves, but I also feel that it should not be points off for me, when my standards are higher. I sell lots of show potential pups...if the owners do not wish to show, then the dog is to be neutered before the first season.no mistakes. (I do not agree in neutering when they are babies, so I DO NOT do that before they are placed) Please give credit where credit is due on your checklist - if necessary, add If the dog is to be bred, it should gain it's Championship beforehand... This is required by the breeder +5 pts or such. Thanks (Been out of state - sorry to bring this up again on the list G Am including your statement as it has been awhile) Sandy Ongemach - Original Message - From: Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:37 AM Subject: RE: Re Contracts/Guarantee Sandy, I think you are looking at this one the wrong way. No one should promise to finish a dog if they don't want to do it. It's a lot of work and a lot of expense. Promising to get a CH on a dog if they don't plan to do it is not good for either the breeder or the owner. It's not a contract that is suitable for that buyer and that breeder! A contract can be a good contract, but a bad one for the buyer's particular situation. Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
Sandy, Thank you for your continued interest in the Breeder Checklist, I certainly appreciate it! There are several other sections that already address the various aspects of breeding such as championships and health certifications. Spay and neuter requirements are also already addressed, so I think it still stands as is. Obviously no one document is ever going to make everyone happy. This is not a tool for breeders, it is a tool to assist novice buyers. I would like to think that it has been helpful for that purpose. It is not the only tool that we need, and I hope it will be replaced by far better tools. I look forward to seeing them! Thanks again for your comments, Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Berner Ads in the Washington Post
Hi everyone, There were 2 ads in Sunday's Washington Post. 1)Bernese Mtn Dog-AKC, M Fs, pups, top quality, shots and wormed, beaut marked, $1800. Reserve for Xmas..301.831.5140 I called about these babies and here is the info I gleaned. Male is BIG swiss import. She breeds for the larger size as she prefers it to the US standard size. She likes the dispositions of her male/female. Both parents on premises. Both parents aged 4.5 years old. Also breeds Berner/Newfy mixes with the male. Welcome to come to the premises to view the pups/parents. Will ask you to spay females but not make you and only has limited registry..Doesn't want her babies to be bred. NOT VwBrands tested. Eyes are certified she said. Does NOT X-ray hips of parents as no litter she produced has had any problems so far. No health problems at all in her sire/dam. No contract. She did have another male but he had health problems so she sold him to a good home. Last litter born had problems, something to do with calcium levels. This is the first litter in a long time. 2) Bernese Mountain Dog-Pups, AKC, vet checked, nicely marked, $1000. 276.889.5056 I did call this # but keep getting answer machine. I left a message for the breeder to call me back. I'll keep you all informed. I hope this is useful or that I asked the right questions. Berner slurps Pippa Antonio, Col, Toby and Ulysses in DC __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Correction on BMDCC AOM!
I wrote that Award of Merit Riccarron Enzo Vincenzo it is suppose to be Lentreroche Beau d'Oberland! Sorry, it was a bit crazy at the show to get all the results listed. Anyone have the results for the Jr puppy boys? Lisa and the Crew
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
Sandy, I applaud you on your standards. I hope you don't mind if I make a few observations. You have been in the breed for a very long time and have had much more experience than I on breeding placing pups and whelping however, the times they are a changing, my dear. This weekend we were just discussing how rare it was to see an ad for Berners in the local Texas newspaper and now it is not uncommone to see one from a BYB or commercial mill at least once to twice a month! This has been in the last 3 years! I had to wait nearly 10mos to get my first Berner. Now it seems we must provide the public with a pup immediately or they may go to a BYB or miller. The point is times are changing and it is my opinion that the conscientious breeder changes with the times. I sell lots of show potential pups...if the owners do not wish to show, then the dog is to be neutered before the first season.no mistakes. While I don't produce the number of puppies you do or evidentally the quality as I only had a few dogs I've considered show, I think this attitude is a dangerous one in these times. Full registrations going out on a puppy is an invitation for that pup to end up in an exploitive situation. As far as that goes, a limited registration will protect you little more as many of these folks don't care about registration or simply cross register with any of several pet registries. (I do not agree in neutering when they are babies, so I DO NOT do that before they are placed) I didn't believe in it either until I found I could sleep at nite not worrying about my dogs. It certainly does eliminate anyone with alteriar motives regarding their intent. It also decreases my need for lengthy threatening contracts since most of that has to do with breeding. I do understand reluctance to early neuter and not all vets may be willing so, why not hold papers until proof of neutering has been sent? I mean after all it's one way to stay in touch with the owner and if they actually are going to show wouldn't it be nice to know? If the dog is to be bred, it should gain it's Championship beforehand I used to think that too until I saw the quality of some champions being bred. It amuses me how many times fellow exhibitors find ways to finish their dogs. I've seen them not show a dog but all of a sudden turn up in some obscure southern town where they've built their own major, or it only requires 4 dogs or bitches to make a major. I've seen some totally dismiss a dog as being worthy of being used until it gets that championship as if suddenly the dog is now somehow better quality that before. I've seen expensive handlers taking the dog out weekend after weekend and if one doesn't have enough clout then a more politically correct one is found and paid. For some of us getting a championship just doesn't mean what it used to. When I think of how hard I've worked to produce one of the few champions I have and how hard it was for me to take that dog the hundreds of miles to find those majors I realize it's not the championship that makes the dog but the dog alone. I have to know the quality and breeding is there and not base my decisions on the title. I wish it were that simple. Sorry for rambling on so long. I've had Berners since 1989, been a BMDCA member since 1990 and only bred 7 litters in that time. I'm still quite the newbie compared to your experiences and time with the breed Sandy so hope you don't take offense at my point of view Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
BMD pictures request
Forwarded for Ann Milligan (not a List member), please help if you can, she writes some great stuff! I'm looking forward to this one! Please respond directly to Ann at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat -- Hi, I'm looking for digital BMD pictures. What I am interested in are pictures representing the variety of physical traits commonly seen in the breed. If you have a digital picture that exemplifies of any of the following traits please kindly send me the photo for use in a document I'm designing to both explain and celebrate our breed's diversity. Here are the pics I would like. If you have a digital picture of a BMD who has any of these features please send it to Ann Milligan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1. A BMD male or female exemplifying overall excellence in breed type (mature 3 years of age+) 2. A BMD with a straight shoulder 3. A BMD with extreme rear angulation 4. A BMD with a beautiful face including correct ear size and placement, a strong muzzle, well shaped and set eye, a broad backskull and correct markings 5. A BMD with a narrow backskull 6. A BMD with a round eye 7. A BMD with a light eye 8. A BMD with a low ear set/large ears 9. A BMD with a long back 10. A BMD with a short back 11. A BMD with long legs 12. A BMD with short legs 13. A BMD with a gay tail 14. A BMD with a deep capacious chest 15. A BMD with a narrow body 16. A BMD with fine bone 17. A BMD with heavy bone 18. A BMD with a straight long coat 19. A BMD with a curly coat (adult or pup) 20. A BMD with loose eyes (ectropion) 21. A BMD with loose flews 22. A BMD with a long back and short legs 23. A BMD with a short back and long legs 24. A BMD with a Collie type head 25. A BMD with a St. Bernard type head 26. A BMD with a Rottweiler type head 27. A BMD with a short neck 28. A BMD with a long neck 29. A BMD a short tail 30. A BMD with a long tail 32. An BMD as an adolescent 33. A BMD as an 8 week old puppy 34. A BMD senior 9+ years of age 35. A BMD with a wide front 36. A BMD with a narrow front 38. A BMD with a narrow rear as viewed from the rear 39. A BMD with a correct rear as viewed from the rear 40. A BMD with close hocks as viewed from the rear 41. A BMD out at the elbows 42. A BMD with a dip behind the withers 43. A BMD with a rear quarters higher than the withers 44. A BMD with withers higher than hips 45. A BMD with a fiddle front 46. A BMD with weak pasterns 47. A BMD with knuckled over front legs 48. A BMD with cow hocks 49. A BMD with well set under elbows (prominent forechest and posternum) 50. A BMD with tuck up of the underline There is no perfect BMD, but every Bernese Mountain Dog I have ever met has had traits to admire and a few that could be better if we lived in an ideal world. I would like everybody either already in our breed or people coming into the breed as breeders or pet owners to have a better understanding of BMD traits. Thanks so much for sending any pictures which will help me to compose a comprehensive document for educational purposes. Ann Milligan Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: Female Incontinance
Hi Everyone- DES was the drug that made women infertile if their mothers took it in the 60's for morning sickness/nausea while they were pregnant. The daughters of the women were found to be infertile due to the parent taking the drug. It is still used today for veterinary use to treat urinary incontinance in dogs. Sometimes it is difficult to find a supplier however. Phenylpropanolomine is another drug that many veterinarians use instead of DES for urinary incontinance issues. It was also found over-the-counter in the form of Dexetrim capsules (the dietary supplement), however recently it has been shown to cause strokes in people...and I believe it is now taken off the market. Veterinarians still use this medication to treat dogs. Personally, I have not heard of, or seen, any side effects directly related to the use of either DES or Phenylpropanolomine when treating urinary incontinance in dogs. Both products can work well for most dogs. It is always best to follow the advice of your veterinarian, and be up front...ask if he/she has seen any side effects before you start giving your dog any new medication. Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA
Hello
There may be a possibility of me acquiring a Berner from Wisconsin. I live in NJ. It was suggested that I post to this site to enlist the help of any fellow berner owners that may be going cross country or at aleast a few states. I would appreciate anyone that might be able to help out! Thank you...Ellen At this point in time it is not a definite! I am just trying to see what the possibilities are once it is a go!
Re: Female Incontenence
In a message dated 11/18/2002 9:46:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just wondering, what in the spay process (surgery, removal of hormones, etc.) seems to contribute to incontinence? As the owner of a newly spayed pup, I wasn't happy to read about that possibility... ~~ Abstract from article in J Reprod Fertil Suppl 2001;57:233-6 Stocklin-Gautschi NM, Hassig M, Reichler IM, Hubler M, Arnold S. Department of Reproduction, Veterinary Faculty of Zurich, Winterthurerstrasse 260, CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland. It is still controversial whether a bitch should be spayed before or after the first oestrus. It would be desirable to spay bitches at an age that would minimize the side effects of neutering. With regard to the risk of mammary tumours, early spaying must be recommended because the incidence of tumours is reduced considerably. The aim of the present study was to determine whether early spaying also reduces the risk of urinary incontinence. The owners of 206 bitches that had been spayed before their first oestrus and for at least 3 years were questioned on the occurrence of urinary incontinence as a result of spaying. At the time of the enquiry the average age of the bitches was 6.5 years, and the average age at the time of surgery was 7.1 months. Urinary incontinence after spaying occurred in 9.7% of bitches. This incidence is approximately half that of spaying after the first oestrus. Urinary incontinence affected 12.5% of bitches that were of a large body weight ( 20 kg body weight) and 5.1% of bitches that were of a small body weight ( 20 kg body weight). The surgical procedure (ovariectomy versus ovariohysterectomy) had no influence on the incidence, or on the period between spaying and the occurrence of urinary incontinence. Urinary incontinence occurred on average at 2 years and 10 months after surgery and occurred each day, while the animals were awake or during sleep. However, compared with late spaying the clinical signs of urinary incontinence were more distinct after early spaying. Note that in this study, bitches spayed BEFORE their first heat had half the incidence of urinary incontinence as girls spayed after their first heat. Clearly it's not a sure thing at all that prepubertal spaying contributes to incontinence, it may well prove to be just an old wives tale. -Sherri Venditti (and 7 10-1/2 y.o. girls spayed at 6 months, no dribbles :-)
Eager to see you
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Berner home needed
I'm trying to help a friend place an older Berner boy. His owner (her sister) is dying, is in a nursing facility and Sam is currently being boarded at a vet clinic. None of the family involved is able to take Sam and his situation is adding to their already substantial stress. Sam is 12 years old, arthritic and has recently been ill with vomiting. The vomiting has since stopped and I believe the vet thinks it was stress related, however tests have been done to rule out stomach cancer and I'm not sure what else. The vet could probably answer these questions. Sam takes 2 meds for arthritic sorts of things and Ecogesic which stopped the vomiting. He is used to city life with a single parent, but takes happily to whomever has been assigned to walk him. He's very easygoing, but has been overindulged. He is not USED to living with children, but they love him, and there has never been a problem. As you must know, small children immediately try to ride him. He has no experience living with other dogs or with cats. He plays at the dog park with other dogs very well. He's a friendly, affectionate, lovey dog, who has not received his share of loving for months now, since his owner has been so very sick. They adore him at the vet's. Sam is currently in the Washington, D. C. area, but the family is willing to help relocate him to the right home. He comes with all the dog stuff (beds, leashes, dishes, assorted odds and ends) he will need as well as cash to help pay for any future medication and/or veterinary care. If you, or anyone you know, could provide a retirement home for Sam, please let me know and I will put you in touch directly with his owner's sister. Thanks. Paula Whiting
seems ironic (thinking too much)
I'm sure I'll make lots of people annoyed with this, but... Ive been thinking about the whole dog breeding thing lately, and find it ironic that in this world, where the media, TV, movies, and magazines obsess about looks and weight, but real people disagree with that obsession, we do the same thing with dogs. I mean, I think we would all agree that the obsession with looks is not only unhealthy, but wrong as well. I think we would all agree that we should (and try to) judge people not on their looks, but on who they are, what they stand for, andby their deeds. However, in dog breeding, one of the only areas we really control over, dogs are bred seemly only for looks. (Keep in mind this comes from a nonbreeder, and someone who things her less than perfect dogs are more than perfect) I think breeders do look very seriously for health, soundness, temperament, etc, but don't markings kind of mean the most? If a breeder had the choice between a bitch with good hips and perfect markings or a bitch with excellent hips and good markings- which would they choose? How about with temperament, or smartness/willingness to learn? I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to understand the difference between what we do with dogs and what we try to tell our children, especially our daughters in a world that seems to value perfection over a good heart? Uh,oh, what did I start? Scared Kendra, mismarked but wonderful Jackson, and crazy court jester Sallie
Dog show near Niagara -- not AKC
I've just learned about a dog show that will be held next year near Niagara Falls. It's a Molosser dog show, not an AKC show, nor an FCI show (at least I don't think it is)--although it will be judged by FCI judges, all entries will receive written critiques. It seems to be a just for fun type show. I could be wrong on the FCI part. Molosser Stock 2003 Spring Fest April 12-13 Lockport New York- Niagara Falls area http://molosserstock.homestead.com/ Initially Berners weren't identified as a molosser type dog -- but I contacted them and they rectified it. It could be lots of fun. It could also be a chance to see breeds you don't normally see at AKC shows. I know I plan on going -- I found out they've even added a veteran class -- which is likely to include spayed/neutered dogs. Lots of breed clubs have already announced that they'll have specialties there as well ... Including (according to the web site) the Black Russian, the Tibetian Mastiff, Central Asian, Cane Corso, Presa Conario, Neopolitan, and the Estrela Mountain Dog. No, I have no association with the group putting this show on ... It just looks like it could be fun. Heck, I've never been to Niagara Falls (NIAGARA FALLS! Slowly I turned ... Step by step ... Inch by inch ... Heehee) --Tracey
puppies and stairs
Good morning list! I have been owned by 8-week old Henley for two days now and I have a few of what will no doubt be many questions! 1. In the literature I received from the breeder, it's recommended to not let my berner up and down stairs until he's a year old. There are no stairs in my apartment, but I do have five steps off the front and back porches. Should I be sure to carry him up and down those until I can't pick him up anymore? 2. I would like to teach him how to retrieve. Any suggestions? 3. An acronym question - PPO. I think I used to be a PPO because I was a potential owner? I'm just curious what it means. Am I now a DHBM? Deliriously Happy Berner Mom? :-) Thanks! Deborah and Henley
RE: puppies and stairs
Deborah, If you can teach your puppy to go down those 5 stairs gently, it will pay off in years to come! And if you can keep Henley from leaping off the top of that porch right to the ground, please share your secret! It seems impossible to imagine now that he's only 8 weeks, but he's going to be unstoppable soon enough! And if this is your first Berner, then you are probably suffering from a beginning case of FBS. (First Berner Syndrome), undoubtedly to be followed by SBS. Trust me. Take lots of pictures, enjoy - and sniff that puppy breath for me! Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
Happy Birthday Sisco!
Today is the very happy hoppy third birthdy of Ch. Enstone's Daring Discovery, a.k.a. Sisco, the goofball, energizer bunny, goofy nuts, fruit loop, nut bar and a bunch of other slightly less flattering but endearing names. The big guy will be celebrating with mumpy's patented sauted ground sirloin/ cheddar cheese cake for dinner, and a lovely rainy hike in the woods with daddy. Sisco would like to wish all his brothers and sisters of Enstone's D litter a very happy day. We're still waiting for UPS to deliver his adult set of gray matter. Gotta happen some day this year maybe. Happy Birthday big goofy boy, from mumpy, daddio, and Kristy! West Vancouver, BC -- Fran Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] SportSound Music:http://www.geocities.com/franinvancouver Phone: 604-926-0084 Fax: 604-926-9543
sick Berner
I have a friend, not on this list, who has a problem - and possibly someone on this list can help Spirit is 4 years old, an Aseptic Meningitis survivor who was getting along fine until about a year ago when he started dropping weight for no apparent reason. In the past 6 months he has lost about 20 pounds. The local vet exhausted their ideas referred to Va Tech - where MANY tests, including exploratory surgery multiple biopsies provided NO answers! No cancer (the good news!) Nothing wrong with anything that they can tell - but the dog Will Not Eat - anything - unless he is being given steroids to make him hungry enough to eat - so he is 'wasting away' before their eyes - and No One can figure out why! He is happy - not depressed or unhappy about some major change in his life - same home since he was 8 weeks old the only change has been to keep him in the house more than he used to be because he has lost so much coat (because of the lack of nutrition, they thing) not that they aren't trying to provide that nutrition! they are! he just won't eat it! He was (in my opinion) overweight at 120# a year ago, and is now at 94# and, in his owner's words, a 'rack of bones' - He is currently on prednizone (sp?), so is eating some now - but obviously this is not a 'long term fix' - Ok guys - ideas? suggestions? recommendations? this owner as gone far beyond 'reasonable limits' to provide for this boy -and is very frustrated at not being able to determine what is wrong with him! At this point, some vets are saying 'well, this is a Bernese Mt Dog, and we may never know why he is sick / dies - because he is a BMD!' Thanks! Joan Robinson
Re: sick Berner
Could something be messing up his sense of smell? Lack of proper smell kill's appetite in dogs. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Star's B-Day Celebration
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Re: Berner home needed
In a message dated 11/18/2002 4:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to help a friend place an older Berner boy. His owner (her sister) is dying, is in a nursing facility and Sam is currently being boarded at a vet clinic. None of the family involved is able to take Sam and his situation is adding to their already substantial stress. I just got an update from Nancy Jenkins on Sam last week and heard he was in a lovely home. What happened? Carol Lingley Ijamsville, MD
Bernese mountain dog and Taiwan
Hello everybody, I learned recently about bernese dogs and it looks just like the perfect dog for me (I am looking for a large dog, not too active indoors, but always ready to go hiking, obedient, trainable, kind and loving for the whole family). Yet, 2 questions remains: Can the Bernese mountain dog stands a tropical weather like Taiwan (very humid all year long and very hot in summer) ? If yes, the 2nd question is important: Where can I find a decent breeder in Taiwan? Bernese dog seems to be quite rare and I could not find an address of Bernese breeder in Taiwan. Thanks in advance for your answers, I will be glad to hear any comments on the subject. Regards, Olivier _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Moses' osteosarcoma and his future
When Moses' leg was amputated due to osteosarcoma last Wednesday, I gave him the chance and the opportunity, which he so richly deserves and desires, to live beyond January 1, 2003; if there is any guarantee in this regard, chemotherapy will help to provide it because osteosarcoma tumors are known to generously share their cells with the rest of the body. Moses loves and embraces life, every minute of each day; if his spirit could be bottled and sold, war would cease and there would be no more sadness on Earth. Here is the true champion for nothing better defines such a designation than Moses' very heart and essence. Moses is meeting and greeting his public as if all is as usual and you know, for him, it is, because it is human, not canine, to attach great emotional dignificance to the loss of an appendage. He has mastered not only the Why aren't you waiting on me? expression but the Poor me, I need a hug! look as well whenever we meet a friend or stranger and to Moses, all strangers are friends yet to be made. Late today we stopped at a local small specialty market to buy Moses' favorite deli items and I thought that I recognized the lady at the counter, placing her order, with her child in tow. Indeed, it was Moses' aquapuncture veterinarian's associate and, as we chatted about Moses, I realized that mere words could not convey my pride in him. She introduced me to her son as Moses' Mom, a designation which greatly honors me, and, my mind frantically grabbing for a word that the youngsters use, I explained to her son that the word trooper and Moses' nature are truly synonymous. Lisa Allen Blessed with Moses since 1994! _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: Female Incontinence
As a DES daughter, I have lived the nightmare from the effects it has had on me. I can not imagine giving my dog any drug that might be linked to DES in any form. I'm sure some would say it may affect humans differently than animals but I'm not willing to take that chance. I can also understand why people sue the drug companies over this, which I would love to do, but my records mysteriously disappeared. Penny Turner Olathe KS On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:23:54 -0700 jesse shelley gonzales [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My 7 year old girl was spayed just over a year ago. She occassionally will piddle when I scold her or if I want to groom her or even when I give her a belly rub. I checked with my vet and she does not have a UTI or any other illness. We discussed age/spay related incontenence and she prescribed Proin. My understanding that this is the same product (formerly names DES I believe)that was given to pregnant women years ago and whose daughters developed cancer. I hesitate to give my girl anything that has been proven to cause cancer. I would love to hear from anyone with any information on this product. I would rather deal with piddles than the fear of giving a cancer causing drug to my sweet Batty. Shelley Gonzales Bigfork, MT
