Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
Hi All, You might want to take a look at a Saxo board sold through the www.knjn.com site. It combines the Cypress CY7C68013, with an Altera FPGA and an ARM7 microcontroller. both the FPGA and the ARM7 can be reprogrammed through the USB port, which simplifies code development. Even if you do not use this board, the fact that you can update embedded code through the USB port is worth knowing. Separate subject: In my 3-axis microscope stage controller, I have a means of mixing imperative commands like Stop into the the positioning command stream. At the upstream end of the USB connections, the imperatives are inserted ahead of buffered positioning commands, and at the downstream end these commands are acted on without going through the FIFO buffer used for the positioning commands. Each positioning command, that is like a G Code block in binary is given a 1/100 second timestamp at the upstream end and this timestamp tells the embedded control system when the command is to be executed. John Harris - Original Message - From: Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query John Kasunich wrote: This subject seems to come up every month or two. The answer is and will probably always be the same. Yes, it is possible to make a box that lives outside the PC and can queue up enough motion in advance that it doesn't require realtime performance from the PC. I agree that taking the PC completely out of the real-time game is a mistake in two senses. First, we've already done the heavy lifting, and it works. Second is, if you are NOT real-time, then there is no upper bound to latency, and one day, the system won't get the data there in time, and the buffer will run empty. The machine will crash to a stop, possibly with disasterous consequences. But, there might be another way. Keep EMC real-time, but have a USB device that can pump out parallel bytes from a FIFO. This requires EMC to sync to the USB clock instead of the system timer. Every tick of that clock, a whole batch of step pulses, just like they are spoon-fed to the parallel port now, would be buffered and sent to the USB device to be de-buffered at a constant rate such that as the last byte was sent, the next buffer would be ready. I think the Cypress CY7C68013 can do all this in hardware, once configured. You can do that if you want, but you lose one of the big benefits of PC based control. On a PC based control, it is easy to find problems, add features, and update the software. If you embed everything in some external box with no keyboard, no screen, no development tools, etc, you are rather locked down. It's one thing to embed simple stuff that can be tested and proven robust, and that is unlikely to change. It is much tougher to embed complex code that will need to be debugged and changed to meet evolving needs. Well, using the Cypress chip, or some other USB-FIFO device, is an intermediate step. If it only has a one ms buffer, the user would never know the difference. And, it would not be moving all the motion control of EMC into some external device, it is just a FIFO and an interface device. Of course, it needs real-time determinism on the USB. I have no idea what state that is in, but I think there has been some work done in that area. A quick Google search appears to show that EVERY document containing the text USB also contains real time, using it to means something happening within a couple of seconds! UGH! But, it looks like Jan Kiszka, who did the rt-net package also has a USB stack for rtai, originally started by Joerge Langenberg. I should point out that I am NOT volunteering for this project, although after I get some hardware and software expertise with this Cypress chip, I might be willing to contribute to such a project. I have a bigger interest in possibly using this chip to connect my other boards to a PC without parallel ports. It might also increase the performance, as the CPU having to process each byte laboriously through the parallel port is becoming a bottleneck. But, I don't know if the chip, or the USB model, is really conducive to the existing boards' model of communication. The fact that it can do one-way FIFO transfers without intervention of the slow 8051 CPU is tantalizing, though. With some additional FPGA logic to format blocks of data to be read from the FPGA to the CPU, though, I think it MIGHT work. I need to learn more about how many balls this chip can keep in the air at once. But, the idea is : Every micro-frame, the FPGA sends encoder position and digital inputs to the CPU, and every micro-frame, EMC sends new velocity and digital output info the the FPGA, based on the last data it processed. It would always be one microframe out of sync,
[Emc-users] Hal module to convert float to 8 bits
Hello Attachment is a hal module for converting float to binary output Regards Michal conv_float_8bit.comp Description: Binary data - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] pumpkin carving with EMC2
http://lumenlab.com/2008/10/pumpkin/ That is soo cl! Way to think outside the flat surface! -Brian - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Latency Test
Dave Engvall wrote: Hi Jon, I'm using an GeForce 2 Nvidia card and it smears a bit on some windows. May have to try something else. Will check for a menu. Non-manufacturer video cables are APPALLING crap! Just 5 wires in one overall shield. I end up making my own video extension cables out of RG-178 mini-coax. A 100' roll isn't all that expensive. I wish I could find good cables pre-made, but I can't trust anything to be good enough. After the comments (JMK) this afternoon about problems with the Mazak at Galesburg I tried running a program on my machine while doing other things. The program was a pretty generic mill a bunch of identical blocks, first roughing at 4.5 ipm and the finishing at more like 12 ipm. Meanwhile I fired up the web browser since that makes the numbers on my latency test increase about as fast and anything I can do. Didn't even get a bump; even on the rapids between blocks. So while my latency numbers are really horrible, i.e. in the 96K range, I can't demonstrate any degradation in the performance of the mill. Servo systems running at 1 KHz are MUCH less sensitive to this than a stepper system trying to dispatch at 25 us. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
Jon Elson wrote: Dave Caroline wrote: The amount of data one could put in a USB microframe, may allow for more loops per frame so make it easier I can see some ways that one could export the software step generation to a USB parallel port. Umm, I obviously didn't say what I meant, here. What I was thinking is that these USB parallel FIFO modules could be pretty easily set up to pump out a steady flow of 8-bit bytes from the FIFO. I'm not too clear on how seamless the transition between packets (USB frames) would be, that is where the research comes in. But, if the step generation task could buffer up a bunch of output words and then send them in one packet, the USB target could spoon them out steadily over a millisecond. Jon Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Latency Test
tomp wrote: yes, thanks John, i never read an acceptable magnitude for latency in a servo system Well, assuming you are running the servo thread at 1 KHz (1 ms interval) and the servo code itself takes, say, 100 us on the average, then you have a 9:1 margin. So, a sudden interruption by something else that steals another 250 us would be no problem, the servo loop would still be completed with plenty of time to spare. Now, in some old rt-Linux systems, if the periodically scheduled RT thread was still running when the next inteval time came up, the system would just lock completely, and you;d have to push the hardware reset. I think now, that it requires many overruns of the interval to flood the stack with uncompleted stack frames before it hangs. Now, one complication is if the problem is not due simply to a higher priority routine that takes X time to run, but is some external contention for some resource like memory. Depending on the exact code sequence running, how well the cache supports it, etc., the effect on stretching the run time of the servo code may not be predictable. Some tight loops running on limited amounts of data may run almost entirely in cache, and the CPU will not be impacted much. Widely spread code affecting many data structures may only be able to run a couple instructions before having a cache miss and having to wait microseconds for main memory to respond. Suddenly, the CPU is slowed by a factor of several thousand! The only way to really know what is going to happen there is to actually test it. Leaving the CPU with lots of margin is a good idea. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
I have a feeling if we learn enough about USB2 a fixed bi directional micro frame protocol could be deterministic for EMC I need a second and third read of the spec Dave Caroline - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
tomp wrote: maybe this is of interest RT-Firewire on Linux, using Xenomai (RTAI ) used for robotics, for realtime control of positioning systems it also enables RTnet over firewire several nice papers at http://www.rtfirewire.org Practically all PCs have USB and Ethernet. The hardware is CHEAP! After some searching, the Real time Linux USB projects do NOT seem to be very active, unfortunately. Anybody know anything about what is going on with them? There is a USB4RT and a USB 2.0 for RT project. The former was last updated in 2005, the latter in 2006. That seems to indicate they are dead. With all the new hardware out, it would seem there would need to be some maintenance work, at least. Firewire is a rare thing, and not so cheap. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
I think some of us need to pick up and even help or fork those dead projects and see where we can go Dave Caroline - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] [OT] Best Displays, Re: Latency Test
On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 12:42 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Dave Engvall wrote: Hi Jon, I'm using an GeForce 2 Nvidia card and it smears a bit on some windows. May have to try something else. Will check for a menu. Non-manufacturer video cables are APPALLING crap! Just 5 wires in one overall shield. I end up making my own video extension cables out of RG-178 mini-coax. A 100' roll isn't all that expensive. I wish I could find good cables pre-made, but I can't trust anything to be good enough. ... snip Jon A couple of video quality issues came to mind when I read this. Since HDMI is digital, would it be less prone to cable quality variations? I would think if the cable quality got below a threshold, you would see dropouts, but otherwise the picture would be perfect, or as good as it gets. I remember in the bad old days when I had a regular job in an office, that monitor picture quality varied quite a bit. The monitor you bought tended to depended on what you were going to use it for. For drafting, If you spent a bunch of money, you could get a big monitor that could place allot of clear (sharp) information all over the screen. So far, I have only seen inexpensive LCD monitors and they don't seem to be very good at displaying fine details. In other words, it seems I need to blow up drawings larger on an LCD than on a CRT, to see the same details. If I spent buckets of money on an LCD monitor, would CAD drawings look better or would I just have a better movie experience? What do current drafters, with big budgets, use? Kirk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
I was just reading SERVO, and a guy is using one of the PicoITX boards. Low power consumption, small, and could do well, but I would like a board with 3 or 4 parallel ports available, even using a 'plug in board'. That would give all the expansion I could ever think of. But building a parallel port board can't be that big a deal. I don't know what happened to the real time projects. I suspect that many of them migrated to doing embedded systems, or virtuilization. Unless someone has a real need for hard real time (like machine control, etc) using an attached embedded system may be easier and cheaper (given the time cost in the software). But that is just my guess. As computers get faster, and if lightly run response time shrinks, near real time might be good enough for non-supercritical projects. Jon Elson wrote: tomp wrote: maybe this is of interest RT-Firewire on Linux, using Xenomai (RTAI ) used for robotics, for realtime control of positioning systems it also enables RTnet over firewire several nice papers at http://www.rtfirewire.org Practically all PCs have USB and Ethernet. The hardware is CHEAP! After some searching, the Real time Linux USB projects do NOT seem to be very active, unfortunately. Anybody know anything about what is going on with them? There is a USB4RT and a USB 2.0 for RT project. The former was last updated in 2005, the latter in 2006. That seems to indicate they are dead. With all the new hardware out, it would seem there would need to be some maintenance work, at least. Firewire is a rare thing, and not so cheap. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 17:57 +, Dave Caroline wrote: I have a feeling if we learn enough about USB2 a fixed bi directional micro frame protocol could be deterministic for EMC I need a second and third read of the spec Dave Caroline Wasn't there some talk, last year, about real-time Ethernet? Ethernet, to my uneducated brain, seems much more appealing than USB. Another thought, is that as long as there are desktop PC's, there will be slots (maybe?) and for real-time, a slot card controller would be the most efficient. I guess this doesn't address the bare-bones systems were cost and simplicity are the major issues. So far, there have always been parallel port cards to fit the latest slots, so maybe it's not yet worth worrying about? I wonder if there will be a time when EMC2 will need to branch, to cater to different system types? How long will those, that want to do the most with the least, and those that want to do the most with the most, be able to use the same EMC? Who made the coffee, this morning? Kirk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
Jon Elson wrote: tomp wrote: maybe this is of interest RT-Firewire on Linux, using Xenomai (RTAI ) used for robotics, for realtime control of positioning systems it also enables RTnet over firewire several nice papers at http://www.rtfirewire.org Practically all PCs have USB and Ethernet. The hardware is CHEAP! After some searching, the Real time Linux USB projects do NOT seem to be very active, unfortunately. Anybody know anything about what is going on with them? There is a USB4RT and a USB 2.0 for RT project. The former was last updated in 2005, the latter in 2006. That seems to indicate they are dead. With all the new hardware out, it would seem there would need to be some maintenance work, at least. Firewire is a rare thing, and not so cheap. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users i dont think firewire card is rare or expensive siig syba other mfctrs tiger direct 20$ mirco center 20$ newegg 12.99$ so not rare and not expensive more important, it already works realtime linux rtai for motion control regards tomp - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 20:30 -0500, Jim Coleman wrote: alan, have you considered replacing the fan? this seems like the cheapest solution to me :-D and you could probably find a complete heatsink with fan for your laptop on ebay, people part out laptops alot on there. I took it to a local computer store (not PC world) and they tried to get a replacement fan with no success. Alan - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Following error
Hello all I've just configured my Sherline mill using the 'stepconf wizard' It is a metric mill and the set up is metric. I'm in AXIS loaded:arcspiral.ngc (I like watching things going in circles reminds me of me) run program Z=11.899 and the vel:2970 then I get Axis error joint 2 following error I think that velocity is a bit quick, considering I set it to 450max. I haven't connected the mill yet. Any answers please, and is there a list of error codes explaining what they mean - might be useful. Dave - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Following error
-Original Message- From: Dave Houghton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 October 2008 09:59 PM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Following error Hello all I've just configured my Sherline mill using the 'stepconf wizard' It is a metric mill and the set up is metric. I'm in AXIS loaded:arcspiral.ngc (I like watching things going in circles reminds me of me) run program Z=11.899 and the vel:2970 then I get Axis error joint 2 following error I think that velocity is a bit quick, considering I set it to 450max. I haven't connected the mill yet. Any answers please, and is there a list of error codes explaining what they mean - might be useful. Dave It's me again in the set up 'stepconf wizard' I put the velocity as 450 meaning 450 mm/min 'stepconf wizard' wants it in mm/second. Sorry folks; seems to be OK now. Thought the velocity was fast! Dave - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] [OT] Plasma noise resistant box
Sorry about the OT post, but I don't know where else to turn. I'm a long-time lurker and I'm finally getting close to having EMC running with Jon Elson's USC on my ancient plasma machine (replacing DOS and a Microkinetics contoller). I had a Dell GX270, which seemed to work fine until I tried testing the plasma arc. Seems to have fried the motherboard instantly. I've spent the afternoon troubleshooting all the possibilities, and it's very dead. The Microkinetics card was plugged right into the bus, and it regularly locked up from the plasma noise, but it never fried anything permanently, so this was a surprise. The very long run of ethernet cable seems like a probable cause, but I really don't want to waste any more equipment if it's not the problem. Does anyone know of a good, reliable computer for using with plasma? It's an old Esab with HF start. Thanks, Hal Hal Eckhart - Casa Forge - Minneapolis MN - http://www.casaforge.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: wiring 5i20 + 7i33
I'm about to start converting my lathe to cnc and I am wondering how other users of the 5i20 + 7i33 have wired it up. I have some +/-10v servo controllers that I am planning to drive with the 5i20+7i33 combo. My computer is about 3 meters away. I was planning to house the servos in an electrical enclosure next to the lathe, and obviously, the 5i20 in the PC. I was planning on putting the 7i33 in the electrical enclosure, and running the 5i20 signals from the PC to the 7i33 in the enclosure. For cabling I was looking at SCSI 50 wire cables with centronics connectors on each end. I'll make up sockets on each end. I'll probably run 2 cables to get to another set of IO pins. Any thoughts on my plan? Should the 7i33 be close to the PC, or is it OK being far way? Should I run the analog/encoder signals through the long wire? Is a SCSI cable OK for this? I can't find any information about whether all wires are straight through. I vaguely remember seeing the words twisted pair in one of the description. Will 50 conductor ribbon cable be too susceptible to noise? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank www.franksworkshop.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: wiring 5i20 + 7i33
Frank Tkalcevic wrote: I'm about to start converting my lathe to cnc and I am wondering how other users of the 5i20 + 7i33 have wired it up. I have some +/-10v servo controllers that I am planning to drive with the 5i20+7i33 combo. My computer is about 3 meters away. I was planning to house the servos in an electrical enclosure next to the lathe, and obviously, the 5i20 in the PC. I was planning on putting the 7i33 in the electrical enclosure, and running the 5i20 signals from the PC to the 7i33 in the enclosure. For cabling I was looking at SCSI 50 wire cables with centronics connectors on each end. I'll make up sockets on each end. I'll probably run 2 cables to get to another set of IO pins. i would keep the 7i33 close to the PC, i have the same setup and made a coustom PC plate to house the Motherboard, and all the I/Os on, as i will be fixing it into a cabnet into the machine/on side of machine. i would not try and run them 50pin cables very far, and if any distance maybe look at shilded type depends how mcuh interfernace would be around the setup legth etc (welders, compressors etc etc), if over any legnth u may want to feed the cards with exsternal power (see the cards manuals) best bet would be to carry the servo control wires over a distance using appropriate cables etc. Any thoughts on my plan? Should the 7i33 be close to the PC, or is it OK being far way? Should I run the analog/encoder signals through the long wire? Is a SCSI cable OK for this? I can't find any information about whether all wires are straight through. I vaguely remember seeing the words twisted pair in one of the description. Will 50 conductor ribbon cable be too susceptible to noise? for board to board (eg 5i20 to 7i33) its pin to pin, eg 1 - 1 (so make sure u get connectors rigth way around etc if u make cables ;) ) i made my own cables, got some round to flat 50pin ribbon cable that was shilded (from good old ebay) and made my own cables up, much neater than trying to fight them flat ribbon cables. any 50pin ribbon should do the job, with standard spacing (cant rember pitch of top head) hope helps rob Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank www.franksworkshop.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1753 - Release Date: 28/10/2008 21:20 - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: wiring 5i20 + 7i33
On Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:32:45 +1100 From: Frank Tkalcevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] OT: wiring 5i20 + 7i33 I'm about to start converting my lathe to cnc and I am wondering how other users of the 5i20 + 7i33 have wired it up. I have some +/-10v servo controllers that I am planning to drive with the 5i20+7i33 combo. My computer is about 3 meters away. I was planning to house the servos in an electrical enclosure next to the lathe, and obviously, the 5i20 in the PC. I was planning on putting the 7i33 in the electrical enclosure, and running the 5i20 signals from the PC to the 7i33 in the enclosure. For cabling I was looking at SCSI 50 wire cables with centronics connectors on each end. I'll make up sockets on each end. I'll probably run 2 cables to get to another set of IO pins. Any thoughts on my plan? Should the 7i33 be close to the PC, or is it OK being far way? Should I run the analog/encoder signals through the long wire? Is a SCSI cable OK for this? I can't find any information about whether all wires are straight through. I vaguely remember seeing the words twisted pair in one of the description. Will 50 conductor ribbon cable be too susceptible to noise? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank www.franksworkshop.com It depends on how noisy your environment is and also the Revision on the 7I33 card. If you dont have a terribly noisy environmet, the current revision (E) will work with up to 10 feet or so. Here the revision differences: C revision - Weak encoder output drive in TTL mode not good for more than 2 feet at high speed D revision - 24 mA drive buffers added to encoder signals E revision - cable impedance matched parallel termination on PWM signals for better analog linearity with long cables Also if the flat cable is long, you may have to power the encoders from a separate 5V power supply, due to drop in the 5V in the flat cable. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 08:00 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote: It can go to pci and post-pci internal busses using intelligent cards like the mesa 5i20. (this is the path I personally favor) I'm kind of hoping for pci express over cable: http://www.onestopsystems.com/pcie_over_cable.html http://www.innovative-dsp.com/products.php?product=PCI%20Express%20X1% 20Cable%20Adapter This board is $175 today, but they will likely become common and inexpensive in the near future (1-3 years I would guess). A 1 meter cable is $28, 3 meters is $45, this will go down as well. At the other end of the cable would be a MegaMesa2000 board with FPGAs and 50 pin Opto22 bus connectors (like a 5i22 but PCIe-Cable instead of regular PCI), and maybe a daisy chain connector to add additional boards. Here's hoping, Matt - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
On Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Matt Shaver wrote: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:39:47 -0400 From: Matt Shaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 08:00 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote: It can go to pci and post-pci internal busses using intelligent cards like the mesa 5i20. (this is the path I personally favor) I'm kind of hoping for pci express over cable: http://www.onestopsystems.com/pcie_over_cable.html http://www.innovative-dsp.com/products.php?product=PCI%20Express%20X1% 20Cable%20Adapter This board is $175 today, but they will likely become common and inexpensive in the near future (1-3 years I would guess). A 1 meter cable is $28, 3 meters is $45, this will go down as well. At the other end of the cable would be a MegaMesa2000 board with FPGAs and 50 pin Opto22 bus connectors (like a 5i22 but PCIe-Cable instead of regular PCI), and maybe a daisy chain connector to add additional boards. Here's hoping, Matt We will have the 6I71 soon (PCIe slot to 1 lane PCIe cable+equallizer) its $69 in singles. Around March we should have the 3X20 available (External PCIe FPGA card) 2M gate, 144 I/O with smaller and cheaper varients to follow... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
Kirk Wallace wrote: On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 17:57 +, Dave Caroline wrote: I have a feeling if we learn enough about USB2 a fixed bi directional micro frame protocol could be deterministic for EMC I need a second and third read of the spec Dave Caroline Wasn't there some talk, last year, about real-time Ethernet? Ethernet, to my uneducated brain, seems much more appealing than USB. Another thought, is that as long as there are desktop PC's, there will be slots (maybe?) and for real-time, a slot card controller would be the most efficient. I guess this doesn't address the bare-bones systems were cost and simplicity are the major issues. So far, there have always been parallel port cards to fit the latest slots, so maybe it's not yet worth worrying about? I wonder if there will be a time when EMC2 will need to branch, to cater to different system types? How long will those, that want to do the most with the least, and those that want to do the most with the most, be able to use the same EMC? Who made the coffee, this morning? Kirk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users rt-ethernet is enabled by the rt-firewire used with rtai's xenomai http://www.rtfirewire.org/ Via the implementation of real-time Ethernet-over-FireWire, an application-layer module emulating Ethernet interface over FireWire hardware, RT-FireWire enables RTnet http://www.rtnet.org, a hard real-time communication framework over Ethernet to work on Firewire. reghards tomp - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Internet EMC2
Try Sheetcam. Runs good on ubuntu! It is free for right now (The dev version)... eventually he will release it and charge for it. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:00 PM, Sergey Izvoztchikov [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I'm not sure about EMC, but I would love to have access to system running 4 or more axes CAM. I think EMC2 sim configuration is quite easy to try from LiveCD on any box locally. Running real machine remotely could be dangerous. One could in theory produce g-code, which might crash it. For a while now I've been trying to find free CAM software for Linux. No luck so far. Synergy works on Linux, but costs a lot for more than 2.5 axes version. FreeMill refused to work under wine on my Ubuntu installation. MeshCAM2 seems to be easy to use, works under wine on Linux and costs not that much. However it lucks feature wise compare to Synergy. If anybody knows any good, but not expensive CAM system for Linux, please share information. On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 11:55 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 18:19 +, Dave Caroline wrote: as in a live sim?, that could be interesting to new users to try something. Dave Caroline Yes. Being able to have multiple connections share an EMC2 session is the idea. Controlling a real machine, viewed with a webcam, would be interesting. Kirk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Internet EMC2
Also I guess it is only 2.5d too. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Bryce Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Sheetcam. Runs good on ubuntu! It is free for right now (The dev version)... eventually he will release it and charge for it. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:00 PM, Sergey Izvoztchikov [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I'm not sure about EMC, but I would love to have access to system running 4 or more axes CAM. I think EMC2 sim configuration is quite easy to try from LiveCD on any box locally. Running real machine remotely could be dangerous. One could in theory produce g-code, which might crash it. For a while now I've been trying to find free CAM software for Linux. No luck so far. Synergy works on Linux, but costs a lot for more than 2.5 axes version. FreeMill refused to work under wine on my Ubuntu installation. MeshCAM2 seems to be easy to use, works under wine on Linux and costs not that much. However it lucks feature wise compare to Synergy. If anybody knows any good, but not expensive CAM system for Linux, please share information. On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 11:55 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 18:19 +, Dave Caroline wrote: as in a live sim?, that could be interesting to new users to try something. Dave Caroline Yes. Being able to have multiple connections share an EMC2 session is the idea. Controlling a real machine, viewed with a webcam, would be interesting. Kirk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] Best Displays, Re: Latency Test
Kirk Wallace wrote: A couple of video quality issues came to mind when I read this. Since HDMI is digital, would it be less prone to cable quality variations? I would think if the cable quality got below a threshold, you would see dropouts, but otherwise the picture would be perfect, or as good as it gets. That seems like a good guess. HDMI should either give a perfect display, or absolute garbage squirming all over the screen. I remember in the bad old days when I had a regular job in an office, that monitor picture quality varied quite a bit. The monitor you bought tended to depended on what you were going to use it for. For drafting, If you spent a bunch of money, you could get a big monitor that could place allot of clear (sharp) information all over the screen. So far, I have only seen inexpensive LCD monitors and they don't seem to be very good at displaying fine details. In other words, it seems I need to blow up drawings larger on an LCD than on a CRT, to see the same details. Well, maybe I don't have any cheap LCDs, but as for spatial, I think they are MUCH better than shadow mask CRTs. Compared to a BW CRT, or the Tektronix shadow mask-less CRT, the old shadow-mask tubes just never cut it. The problem was the pixels had no relation to the holes in the shadow mask. LCDs, when run at their native resolution, avoid this problem completely. The computer pixels exactly match the screen pixels, period. (If you ever mis-set the screen resolution so it has to interpolate, you will see the difference. They do amazingly well like that, but definitely sharpness suffers.) On the other hand, for color gradation work, like processing very bright and detailed photographs, I think CRTs with all-analog intensity control still outperform LCDs. If I spent buckets of money on an LCD monitor, would CAD drawings look better or would I just have a better movie experience? What do current drafters, with big budgets, use? I have a ViewSonic 19 LCD on my desktop system, and a smaller HP LCD on my main CNC control (CRTs were too heavy on the monitor arm). I'm not too impressed with the HP, some of the text on the EMC window is fuzzy. Some kind of quirk on that HP. Everything else here is still CRTs, many are essentially dumpster finds. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
Kirk Wallace wrote: Wasn't there some talk, last year, about real-time Ethernet? Ethernet, to my uneducated brain, seems much more appealing than USB. Jan Kiszka did this for RT Linux (its called rtnet), and it is apparently a complete project, and is being maintained. BUT, the slave side is NOT done. That's the problem. If you wanted to have some slave motion control devices that were commanded by the EMC system using rtnet, you'd have to do some tricky stuff, at the least, to make them perform the way rtnet requires. Basically, time slots are allocated based on the number of devices and their requirements for data transfers. Then, the master sends out sync packets every interval, and all the slaves have a time relative to the sync that they may respond in, and at no other time. it seems like many of the really nice, cheap and flexible Ethernet-enabled chip products, such as the many Arm-based micros with USB and net ports, may not be flexible enough to bend their Ethernet ports to work with rtnet. Too much of the protocol is handled in hardware to adapt to rtnet, or at least that is the impression I got while diging through a number of data sheets. Maybe there is a way to do it, but the off the shelf protocol stacks that have been written for these micros certainly won't work without massive changes, if at all. Another thought, is that as long as there are desktop PC's, there will be slots (maybe?) and for real-time, a slot card controller would be the most efficient. I guess this doesn't address the bare-bones systems were cost and simplicity are the major issues. So far, there have always been parallel port cards to fit the latest slots, so maybe it's not yet worth worrying about? I haven't tried a PCIe parallel port card yet, as I don't have a PC with PCIe slots, yet. But, that definitely SHOULD work. If a PCI parallel port works, a PCIe should, too. I wonder if there will be a time when EMC2 will need to branch, to cater to different system types? How long will those, that want to do the most with the least, and those that want to do the most with the most, be able to use the same EMC? EMC is already a very flexible system, that can do both servo and software-generated steps, and even mix them in the same system! Robots and hexapods, too. Why branch? Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
tomp wrote: i dont think firewire card is rare or expensive siig syba other mfctrs tiger direct 20$ mirco center 20$ newegg 12.99$ so not rare and not expensive more important, it already works realtime linux rtai for motion control OK, they have REALLY come down, I haven't looked at FireWire in a long time. It was actually declared dead several years ago, but the users wouldn't allow it. But, there are these REALLY cheap USB- and Ethernet-enabled CPU chips and CPU-less USB target device chips that could be used (if suitable) to control some other motion hardware. Using one of the USB FIFO chips to send out step pulses sounds like it might actually be pretty easy. (Note the might!) Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] Plasma noise resistant box
Hal Eckhart wrote: Sorry about the OT post, but I don't know where else to turn. I'm a long-time lurker and I'm finally getting close to having EMC running with Jon Elson's USC on my ancient plasma machine (replacing DOS and a Microkinetics contoller). I had a Dell GX270, which seemed to work fine until I tried testing the plasma arc. Seems to have fried the motherboard instantly. I've spent the afternoon troubleshooting all the possibilities, and it's very dead. Oh, MY! You really want to get a commercial-grade noise filter and surge supressor and put all your computer and motion-control hardware on that, and make sure the Plasma machine (both the box and the gun) are insulated from the gantry. The Microkinetics card was plugged right into the bus, and it regularly locked up from the plasma noise, but it never fried anything permanently, so this was a surprise. The very long run of ethernet cable seems like a probable cause, but I really don't want to waste any more equipment if it's not the problem. Ethernet is isolated to 3000 V, I think. (I did get one popped by a lightning storm, but it damaged about 3 other things at the same time, so it must have been a strong one! That computer is still in use, but I had to plug in an ethernet card to replace the on-mobo net interface.) Does anyone know of a good, reliable computer for using with plasma? It's an old Esab with HF start. Well, those Dell Optiplex machines have been very good, and are known to be compatible with the USC. But, I can't say I've tested them with a plasma machine. (I do have a TIG welder with the hottest HF I've ever seen, you can actually WELD with the HF output! Never any computer problems, but they are just nearby, not actually connected.) Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query
alan wrote: On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 20:30 -0500, Jim Coleman wrote: alan, have you considered replacing the fan? this seems like the cheapest solution to me :-D and you could probably find a complete heatsink with fan for your laptop on ebay, people part out laptops alot on there. I took it to a local computer store (not PC world) and they tried to get a replacement fan with no success. If it is a CPU fan, just replace the whole heatsink assembly. They just clip onto the CPU, and come with the fan packaged as an assembly. Other than high-grade commercial systems, the clip-on heatsink fans are awful junk where the plastic starts to crumble within months. These should be around $12 new. I wouldn't spend even $1 on any of the home-grade stuff used, it will be already dying. Power supply and case fans should be pretty standard sizes, look in the Digi-Key catalog. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
