Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 7:00 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed, it is a matter of priorities, and he knew his. I choose a house, typically, on whether it has a garage. If I was looking for a house now I wouldn't have bought the one I did, I would have been looking for more workshop space, and might be willing to lose a bedroom, and maybe the kitchen :-) -- atp Andy, You're leaving out one extremely important factor. SWMBO. Mark -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 28 April 2013 12:09, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote: You're leaving out one extremely important factor. SWMBO. I have done a cost/benefit analysis and prefer the extra workshop space :-) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 8:59 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 April 2013 12:09, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote: You're leaving out one extremely important factor. SWMBO. I have done a cost/benefit analysis and prefer the extra workshop space :-) -- atp In other words, you ain't got one... ;-) Mark -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
I own a Grizzly G1006 2HP Benchtop milling machine. http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Mill-Drill/G1006 I've had it for almost 20 years. It's maybe rigid enough for a 1 HP spindle. Lead screws instead of ball screws of course, as is the case with all machines in this class... and not very good lead screws at that. It is what it is. Before I bought it, I consulted with a machinist friend who started an automation business and now owns a very nice machine building business (lots of robots and vision systems). He advised me to spend the same amount of money on an older American made milling machine of the Bridgeport type, with modest wear - probably a maintenance shop machine as opposed to a production machine. I should have followed his advice, but I didn't. I can't really complain too much about the Grizzly milling machine, though. Most of my work has been low tolerance and it's probably paid for itself tenfold. Some precision work is also possible, with great care. My shop needs grew and I needed a lathe. I looked at a Grizzly G0602, thinking I might CNC it. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602 I considered my friend's good advice, and bought a nice old Clausing 10X24 lathe instead for $1200. It's the opposite of the Asian imports. They look good at a distance (on a website) but come up lacking when viewed up close. That old Clausing lathe had been repainted a horrid shade of blue, which is chipping off in a few places. It looks a bit rough from afar, but up close, it's gorgeous. It oozes quality. A lot of care went into the design and manufacture, and it's still nice and tight today. I put a VFD on the spindle as the first step of the CNC conversion, and I've used it as an electronically variable speed manual lathe so far. I've slacked off on my numerous CNC projects this past year, but it's slated for my big Summer Of CNC Projects, currently underway with a CNC router project I've been working on steadily for the last week. I'll CNC the Grizzly milling machine too, for very low tolerance light production, with a ball screw upgrade later. The CNC Grizzly is an extreme example of turd polishing. I seriously thought of selling it and buying an older Bridgeport style milling machine to CNC, but after the troubles I had getting the 1000 pound lathe in the basement shop (no deaths, and nothing injured but my pride), the idea of moving one milling machine out and another in did not sit well with me. I've looked at the 3-in-1 machines quite a bit over the years. It feels like a morbid fascination. I like the concept at the zoomed out level, but there were just too many compromises, including change over time, machine flex, and small inconveniently shaped work areas. I liked the looks of the Smithy Granite series, but just couldn't talk myself into one. I can appreciate not having the space for a milling machine and a lathe, but that's still my recommendation, even if it required building a heavy duty shed in the back yard as a shop if that's possible, which would also be great to keep the machining sounds and smells out of the house. I'd also strongly recommend haunting Craig's List to find a good old lathe or milling machine made in the US, Germany, etc., with a lot of life still left. It'll last longer and it'll be a lot easier to do good work with it. It'll be a lot less frustrating, and using a quality machining tool just feels so much better. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 27 April 2013 02:56, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. (Snip other tales of woe) So, the man-portable 3-in-one machine suddenly looks like a great idea? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
andy pugh wrote: On 27 April 2013 02:56, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. (Snip other tales of woe) So, the man-portable 3-in-one machine suddenly looks like a great idea? Well, not really. The back yard problems are readily overcome if you have the plywood in advance. But, the rigidity and capability of the heavier machine will reward you every time you turn it on. If you have the room, definitely go for a well-built heavy-duty machine rather than Chinese desktop machines. (Getting the RIGHT lift truck for the job is also better than taking what they have the day you need it.) Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
I own a Grizzly G1006 2HP Benchtop milling machine. http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Mill-Drill/G1006 I've had it for almost 20 years. It's maybe rigid enough for a 1 HP spindle. Lead screws instead of ball screws of course, as is the case with all machines in this class... and not very good lead screws at that. It is what it is. Before I bought it, I consulted with a machinist friend who started an automation business and now owns a very nice machine building business (lots of robots and vision systems). He advised me to spend the same amount of money on an older American made milling machine of the Bridgeport type, with modest wear - probably a maintenance shop machine as opposed to a production machine. I should have followed his advice, but I didn't. I can't really complain too much about the Grizzly milling machine, though. Most of my work has been low tolerance and it's probably paid for itself tenfold. Some precision work is also possible, with great care. My shop needs grew and I needed a lathe. I looked at a Grizzly G0602, thinking I might CNC it. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602 I considered my friend's good advice, and bought a nice old Clausing 10X24 lathe instead for $1200. It's the opposite of the Asian imports. They look good at a distance (on a website) but come up lacking when viewed up close. That old Clausing lathe had been repainted a horrid shade of blue, which is chipping off in a few places. It looks a bit rough from afar, but up close, it's gorgeous. It oozes quality. A lot of care went into the design and manufacture, and it's still nice and tight today. I put a VFD on the spindle as the first step of the CNC conversion, and I've used it as an electronically variable speed manual lathe so far. I've slacked off on my numerous CNC projects this past year, but it's slated for my big Summer Of CNC Projects, currently underway with a CNC router project I've been working on steadily for the last week. I'll CNC the Grizzly milling machine too, for very low tolerance light production, with a ball screw upgrade later. The CNC Grizzly is an extreme example of turd polishing. I seriously thought of selling it and buying an older Bridgeport style milling machine to CNC, but after the troubles I had getting the 1000 pound lathe in the basement shop (no deaths, and nothing injured but my pride), the idea of moving one milling machine out and another in did not sit well with me. I've looked at the 3-in-1 machines quite a bit over the years. It feels like a morbid fascination. I like the concept at the zoomed out level, but there were just too many compromises, including change over time, machine flex, and small inconveniently shaped work areas. I liked the looks of the Smithy Granite series, but just couldn't talk myself into one. I can appreciate not having the space for a milling machine and a lathe, but that's still my recommendation, even if it required building a heavy duty shed in the back yard as a shop if that's possible, which would also be great to keep the machining sounds and smells out of the house. I'd also strongly recommend haunting Craig's List to find a good old lathe or milling machine made in the US, Germany, etc., with a lot of life still left. It'll last longer and it'll be a lot easier to do good work with it. It'll be a lot less frustrating, and using a quality machining tool just feels so much better. On 04/27/2013 11:53 AM, Jon Elson wrote: But, the rigidity and capability of the heavier machine will reward you every time you turn it on. If you have the room, definitely go for a well-built heavy-duty machine rather than Chinese desktop machines. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
--- On Sat, 4/27/13, Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com wrote: From: Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Saturday, April 27, 2013, 11:12 AM I own a Grizzly G1006 2HP Benchtop milling machine. http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Mill-Drill/G1006 I've had it for almost 20 years. It's maybe rigid enough for a 1 HP spindle. Lead screws instead of ball screws of course, as is the case with all machines in this class... and not very good lead screws at that. It is what it is. But you didn't pay anywhere near that price 20 years ago. ;) I have the smaller Big Red 12 speed drill mill. Got it on sale for about $400 12 years ago. Other than the round column not being able to keep the head aligned when moved up and down it has served me quite well, more than saved its cost many times in not having to take stuff to a machine shop and pay big money and cross my fingers they won't do the job wrong half the time. What would drastically improve these round column mills is a Metalmaster style triangular gib, or two to resist twisting both directions. Now if only I knew someone local with a die slotter or a slotting head on a knee mill... -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com writes: If you have the room... That's a *very* big if for a lot of us. That's why the used big iron usually sells for less than the smaller toolroom machines-- the market for them is limited to people who can afford the space to house them. I have access to a machine shop at Milwaukee Makerspace, but I could never own a machine like that myself, just because I'd have no place to put it. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
You have to be consequent - I used to know a guy in Vienna who poured a concrete basement floor, put a 4 or 5 ton, 3 meter lathe on it with a crane and built the rest of the house (and astronomical observatory) around it. Peter Am 27.04.2013 23:25, schrieb Ron Bean: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com writes: If you have the room... That's a *very* big if for a lot of us. That's why the used big iron usually sells for less than the smaller toolroom machines-- the market for them is limited to people who can afford the space to house them. I have access to a machine shop at Milwaukee Makerspace, but I could never own a machine like that myself, just because I'd have no place to put it. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 27 April 2013 23:22, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: You have to be consequent - I used to know a guy in Vienna who poured a concrete basement floor, put a 4 or 5 ton, 3 meter lathe on it with a crane and built the rest of the house (and astronomical observatory) around it. Indeed, it is a matter of priorities, and he knew his. I choose a house, typically, on whether it has a garage. If I was looking for a house now I wouldn't have bought the one I did, I would have been looking for more workshop space, and might be willing to lose a bedroom, and maybe the kitchen :-) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 4/27/2013 7:52 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 27 April 2013 02:56, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. (Snip other tales of woe) So, the man-portable 3-in-one machine suddenly looks like a great idea? N ... the obvious solution is to either wait for winter when the ground is frozen or mid summer when the ground is dry.. or rent a track loader.. ;-) A man portable machine takes all the fun out of the challenge! :-) Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
Is anyone using http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729 or http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=328-1310PMPXNO=25221739PARTPG=INLMK3 They appear to be the same machine except the enco is higher priced How is the quality and company support Richard -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 04/26/2013 06:11 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone using http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729 or http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=328-1310PMPXNO=25221739PARTPG=INLMK3 They appear to be the same machine except the enco is higher priced How is the quality and company support Richard G0516 Combo Lathe w/ Milling Attachment (hobby) user here. Nice picture but way different from seeing it close. The whole thing is as sloppy as 8 floppy disk. Mechanism for moving cutting tool is not smooth and noticeably different when used in one direction or the other. My first delivery was in upside down and partially broken crate, with damaged lathe that I had to reject on the spot. They sent me another one (?) weeks later. That one broke down few weeks later. Sleeve bearing for the threaded rod seized which caused brittle gears to literally grind to stop. The stiff coupling between the threaded rod and connection rod with a gear has a small angle which of course puts huge load on the sleeve bearing to seize. They sent me replacement gears and sleeve bearings but that not better. When I turned the gears manually I realized that the connection rod and the threaded rod are not in one line! I'm sure it would break if I ever use it again. The gears are made of cast iron not steel! With exception of motors, there are no ball bearings in lathe so you start hearing squeaking noise after months of little or no use. Need to take the gears apart to lube the damn thing. Remember, I'm a hobby, not a machinist user and it still broke down with so little use. What happens when you want to use it more seriously? Another unfortunate thing is that it's not metric. They could not provide simple metric conversion kit either. Conclusion: piece of crap from China, unsuitable for precision work, if you ask me. I've seen the same thing in blue color sold in Europe. Stay away from it. I would never buy it again. Should have saved $$ and buy a US (is there such a thing?) or German made Proxxon. Combo also has a drawback, there is little space between the lathe headstock and milling area. They are too close to each other for many things in my experience. -- Rafael -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013, Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 04/26/2013 06:11 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone using http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729 or http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=328-1310PMPXNO=25221739PARTPG=INLMK3 They appear to be the same machine except the enco is higher priced How is the quality and company support Richard Conclusion: piece of crap from China, unsuitable for precision work, if I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame Richard -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame There are small machines that work acceptably. They still have limitations, but trying to make a cheap machine in China that ALSO is actually two totally different machines in one is asking for trouble. On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. That is another issue. My mill/lathe was only 500 pounds, but when it arrived I had to get it off the truck myself, get it into the shop and up on the bench. We used an engine cherry picker. But if you order yourself a 3500 pound machine you're probably going to need to hire someone to move it in, which is additional cost and logistics. DougM On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame There are small machines that work acceptably. They still have limitations, but trying to make a cheap machine in China that ALSO is actually two totally different machines in one is asking for trouble. On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Friday 26 April 2013 14:39:44 kqt4a...@gmail.com did opine: On Fri, 26 Apr 2013, Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 04/26/2013 06:11 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone using http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729 or http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=328-1310PMPXNO=25221739PA RTPG=INLMK3 They appear to be the same machine except the enco is higher priced How is the quality and company support Richard Conclusion: piece of crap from China, unsuitable for precision work, if I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame Richard My woof has one of those Brother knitting machines, and I've often wondered if LCNC could run one of those. Twould need some sort of an output expander tree to get enough bits to control the whole thing, as in a solenoid per lengthwise yarn, but... -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml : But for some things, Perl just isn't the optimal choice. (yet) :-) -- Larry Wall in 199702221943.laa20...@wall.org A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Friday 26 April 2013 14:44:38 andy pugh did opine: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. Which explains why I have not yet purchased the GO704 from Grizzly, I have yet to stop by the showroom in Muncy PA and found one actually on display. The dog pony show says we can't keep one long enough to set up up out here. Something tells me there is a reason they won't let us spin the wheels. That thing is a BF20 or a BF30? I'm confused. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. -- Lao Tsu A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:40:05 +0100, you wrote: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. ALL Chinese machines are made to a price. The spec from a factory on what appear to be identical machines differ for supplier to supplier. It sometimes seems that some are made as cheap as the supplier can get away with and still sell. It's not that the factories can't build quality goods, many can and do - they are simply supplying what the overseas buyer is prepared to pay for. Some sellers simply box shift. They never check what comes out of China and to the end user. Others will inspect, and if necessary prepare the machine for the end user, at an increased cost, of course. As you say, looking at a machine before purchase is a good idea, but often not practical. Researching and asking around the many forums is absolutely essential. You will soon get the idea on which suppliers machines are generally good and who's are mostly boat anchors... Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
--- On Fri, 4/26/13, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: From: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 26, 2013, 10:56 AM kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame There are small machines that work acceptably. They still have limitations, but trying to make a cheap machine in China that ALSO is actually two totally different machines in one is asking for trouble. For several years I had two 7 swing lathes from China. One was NOT made by SIEG. It was similar but had a thicker apron with a double ball bearing on the carriage crank shaft, way wipers, a heavier, rectangular shape saddle, four bolts holding the headstock to the bed, and a locking adjustment nut at the right end of the leadscrew. The way surfaces were induction hardened and ground. It was pretty much ready to use out of the box. This one is still made but hard to find as most companies that import it in any country tend to switch to the cheaper SIEG version. The other one was an old Grizzly import, serial #346. I was at least the 3rd or 4th owner and the first owner who knew what to do to correct its problems and fix the damage inflicted by previous owners. When I was done with it, it was a decent little lathe though it still had the lighter weight H saddle, no way wipers, a thin apron with no bearings, no leadscrew adjustment nut, only three headstock bolts and a quite simple and antique looking SCR motor controller that made the motor run quite noisily. The non-SIEG lathe had a much better PWM controller with e-stop and safety circuit where the speed dial had to be turned all the way down to start it. Both lathes had decent quality ball bearings on the spindle and were capable of putting a fine finish on work when good cutters were used. If I'd bought a PWM board for the Grizzly it would have been better. I've since sold both of those, bought and refurbished a 1940 10x24 Montgomery Ward Standard Model (serial 1031, the 30th lathe Logan made), bought, refurbished and sold a 1967 South Bend 9 3.5 foot bed Model A. Now I'm looking for more old lathes to refurbish, some to keep and use, some to sell. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
Here is a link to another machine I was looking at before I purchased the Atlas lathe Jet mill: www.shoptask.com They put a lot of effort into stiffening the machine, but it still has all of the other shortcomings of a 3 in 1. --J. Ray Mitchell Jr. jrmitche...@gmail.com (818)324-7573 “Truth is treason in the Empire of Lies.” — Ron Paul On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote: On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:40:05 +0100, you wrote: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. ALL Chinese machines are made to a price. The spec from a factory on what appear to be identical machines differ for supplier to supplier. It sometimes seems that some are made as cheap as the supplier can get away with and still sell. It's not that the factories can't build quality goods, many can and do - they are simply supplying what the overseas buyer is prepared to pay for. Some sellers simply box shift. They never check what comes out of China and to the end user. Others will inspect, and if necessary prepare the machine for the end user, at an increased cost, of course. As you say, looking at a machine before purchase is a good idea, but often not practical. Researching and asking around the many forums is absolutely essential. You will soon get the idea on which suppliers machines are generally good and who's are mostly boat anchors... Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 26 April 2013 22:03, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: Both lathes had decent quality ball bearings on the spindle and were capable of putting a fine finish on work when good cutters were used. This is a very good point. Every time I use the Motor Club's Colchester Student I start to hate my lathe. But It will make nice things. I can't really complain about the finish on this ballscrew: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5611819836865630514?banner=pwa or the 30INT milling arbor: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5830056959304093538?banner=pwa The latter is quite a chunky part too. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 10:42 -0500, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 26 Apr 2013, Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 04/26/2013 06:11 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone using http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729 or http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=328-1310PMPXNO=25221739PARTPG=INLMK3 They appear to be the same machine except the enco is higher priced How is the quality and company support Richard Conclusion: piece of crap from China, unsuitable for precision work, if I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame Richard OH! I'd better not let my wife see this. She would agree. She who dies with the most fabric or machines wins. So far she only has a few sewing machines; a long arm for quilting, a couple of machines for general use, an itty-bitty portable for camping, then there is the serger and the embroidery machine. ;-) - Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 14:48 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 14:44:38 andy pugh did opine: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. Which explains why I have not yet purchased the GO704 from Grizzly, I have yet to stop by the showroom in Muncy PA and found one actually on display. The dog pony show says we can't keep one long enough to set up up out here. Something tells me there is a reason they won't let us spin the wheels. That thing is a BF20 or a BF30? I'm confused. Cheers, Gene Hi all, My first machine was a Griz. I sold it to my BIL and went to an auction and bought a real mill. He got for about what I paid for it but it came with lots of tooling I'd acquired. OTOH, my cinci cost less than the Griz and there is simply no comparison in quality. The cinci came with ballscrews and X and Y servo motors. Just add $$$ for a control plus emc (that in itself dates it) and Voila! Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
If you live in the country, most larger farm tractors with front end loaders can do 2000+ lbs without any problems. Many backhoe front end loaders can pickup more than 4000 lbs. The contract rental places also rent small cranes, bobcats, and tractors with loaders. Most of them also rent Hilman type rollers and toe jacks which are really handy to move around heavy machines. Dave On 4/26/2013 1:37 PM, doug metzler wrote: On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. That is another issue. My mill/lathe was only 500 pounds, but when it arrived I had to get it off the truck myself, get it into the shop and up on the bench. We used an engine cherry picker. But if you order yourself a 3500 pound machine you're probably going to need to hire someone to move it in, which is additional cost and logistics. DougM On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame There are small machines that work acceptably. They still have limitations, but trying to make a cheap machine in China that ALSO is actually two totally different machines in one is asking for trouble. On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 19:17 -0400, Dave wrote: If you live in the country, most larger farm tractors with front end loaders can do 2000+ lbs without any problems. Many backhoe front end loaders can pickup more than 4000 lbs. The contract rental places also rent small cranes, bobcats, and tractors with loaders. Most of them also rent Hilman type rollers and toe jacks which are really handy to move around heavy machines. Dave On 4/26/2013 1:37 PM, doug metzler wrote: On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. That is another issue. My mill/lathe was only 500 pounds, but when it arrived I had to get it off the truck myself, get it into the shop and up on the bench. We used an engine cherry picker. But if you order yourself a 3500 pound machine you're probably going to need to hire someone to move it in, which is additional cost and logistics. DougM On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate all of the feedback You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame There are small machines that work acceptably. They still have limitations, but trying to make a cheap machine in China that ALSO is actually two totally different machines in one is asking for trouble. On the other hand, I have a 1500 Lb mill and a 3500 Lb lathe (not CNC - yet) so take my words with a grain of salt. Jon I used my local lumber yard quite a bit. I'd call them and the next pass thru delivering lumber they would drop by and unload for me. With an 8000 lb forklift I didn't need anything bigger until the Mazak arrived. 50 bucks a pop was a better deal than the 15000 forklift from the crane place for 10X the price. Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Friday 26 April 2013 20:17:22 dave did opine: On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 14:48 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 14:44:38 andy pugh did opine: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. Which explains why I have not yet purchased the GO704 from Grizzly, I have yet to stop by the showroom in Muncy PA and found one actually on display. The dog pony show says we can't keep one long enough to set up up out here. Something tells me there is a reason they won't let us spin the wheels. That thing is a BF20 or a BF30? I'm confused. Cheers, Gene Hi all, My first machine was a Griz. I sold it to my BIL and went to an auction and bought a real mill. He got for about what I paid for it but it came with lots of tooling I'd acquired. OTOH, my cinci cost less than the Griz and there is simply no comparison in quality. The cinci came with ballscrews and X and Y servo motors. Just add $$$ for a control plus emc (that in itself dates it) and Voila! Dave True Dave, but even my 8 thick garage floor is not up to holding up some of the Cinci's I've seen. Sitting on this WV yellow clay, even a 1000 lb machine will slowly sink. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, D.C. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 20:19 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 20:17:22 dave did opine: On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 14:48 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 14:44:38 andy pugh did opine: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. Which explains why I have not yet purchased the GO704 from Grizzly, I have yet to stop by the showroom in Muncy PA and found one actually on display. The dog pony show says we can't keep one long enough to set up up out here. Something tells me there is a reason they won't let us spin the wheels. That thing is a BF20 or a BF30? I'm confused. Cheers, Gene Hi all, My first machine was a Griz. I sold it to my BIL and went to an auction and bought a real mill. He got for about what I paid for it but it came with lots of tooling I'd acquired. OTOH, my cinci cost less than the Griz and there is simply no comparison in quality. The cinci came with ballscrews and X and Y servo motors. Just add $$$ for a control plus emc (that in itself dates it) and Voila! Dave True Dave, but even my 8 thick garage floor is not up to holding up some of the Cinci's I've seen. Sitting on this WV yellow clay, even a 1000 lb machine will slowly sink. My soil is good for about 3000 psi. I poured a 3+ inch layer of 4.5 slump 6 sack with #4 bar in a grid at 2' centers. AFIK nothing is shifting after 25 years. ;-) Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Friday 26 April 2013 21:38:33 dave did opine: On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 20:19 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 20:17:22 dave did opine: On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 14:48 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 26 April 2013 14:44:38 andy pugh did opine: On 26 April 2013 16:42, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: You have saved me a lot of money, headaches and possible alcoholism I need to rethink my hobbies to fit my space, maybe a nice quilting frame The thing is, that a lot of these machines look the same, but are built to different standards. The forerunner of most of the cheap lathes was the Emco Compact 10: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page7.html My cheap Indian knock-off of the cheap Chinese knock-offs of the original German design is not very nice at all, but it could have been OK if it had been built by someone who had ever seen a lathe before. I think that there are some people on this list who have links with Smithy and are keeping quiet to retain impartiality. The trick is probably to make sure you have a look at the machine in the metal, and twiddle the knobs, before comitting. Which explains why I have not yet purchased the GO704 from Grizzly, I have yet to stop by the showroom in Muncy PA and found one actually on display. The dog pony show says we can't keep one long enough to set up up out here. Something tells me there is a reason they won't let us spin the wheels. That thing is a BF20 or a BF30? I'm confused. Cheers, Gene Hi all, My first machine was a Griz. I sold it to my BIL and went to an auction and bought a real mill. He got for about what I paid for it but it came with lots of tooling I'd acquired. OTOH, my cinci cost less than the Griz and there is simply no comparison in quality. The cinci came with ballscrews and X and Y servo motors. Just add $$$ for a control plus emc (that in itself dates it) and Voila! Dave True Dave, but even my 8 thick garage floor is not up to holding up some of the Cinci's I've seen. Sitting on this WV yellow clay, even a 1000 lb machine will slowly sink. My soil is good for about 3000 psi. I poured a 3+ inch layer of 4.5 slump 6 sack with #4 bar in a grid at 2' centers. AFIK nothing is shifting after 25 years. ;-) Dave I'd damned near kill for soil like that. This shit will NOT stay where I put it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml asuffield a workstation is anything you can stick on somebodies desk and con them into using -- in #debian-devel A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
doug metzler wrote: That is another issue. My mill/lathe was only 500 pounds, but when it arrived I had to get it off the truck myself, get it into the shop and up on the bench. We used an engine cherry picker. But if you order yourself a 3500 pound machine you're probably going to need to hire someone to move it in, which is additional cost and logistics. No, I moved the 1500 Lb Bridgeport mill pretty much myself, with a pry bar and iron pipe as rollers. I rented a lift-gate truck. For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. I eventually bought my hardware store out of 3/4 plywood, most of which was turned into splinters, but it kept the lift truck from sinking again. See http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html for some pics from that saga! Once inside, I used the rollers again to move it around. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. For whatever reason, the boom forklifts seem to sink in a little too readily. For my Bridgeport, I got a rough terrain forklift based on a tractor which did really well in comparison. The only advantage to the boom lifts is that I can reach under my deck and put machines directly in the basement. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 4/26/2013 9:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote: doug metzler wrote: That is another issue. My mill/lathe was only 500 pounds, but when it arrived I had to get it off the truck myself, get it into the shop and up on the bench. We used an engine cherry picker. But if you order yourself a 3500 pound machine you're probably going to need to hire someone to move it in, which is additional cost and logistics. No, I moved the 1500 Lb Bridgeport mill pretty much myself, with a pry bar and iron pipe as rollers. I rented a lift-gate truck. For the 3500 Lb. lathe, I rented a rough terrain forklift, and the only one they had weighted 21,500 Lbs, and sank repeatedly in my mushy back yard. I eventually bought my hardware store out of 3/4 plywood, most of which was turned into splinters, but it kept the lift truck from sinking again. See http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html for some pics from that saga! Once inside, I used the rollers again to move it around. Jon You are lucky you were able to get that out at all! The $150 plywood cost was cheap compared to what the heavy wrecker guys charge for a tug. I can relate to that. Last spring I got a 20,000 lb 4wd crane stuck in the grass inside my U shaped driveway when I tried to turn it around by cutting across the grass. The tires would just spin in the soft, recently thawed clay - which is a lot like grease when it gets wet. It stopped sinking at about 1.5 feet down I ended up parking it there for a week until the sopping wet ground refroze, then I used the hydraulic outriggers to jack it out of the frozen dirt, put blocks under the wheels and drove it out. That was no fun at all! Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
Dave wrote: You are lucky you were able to get that out at all! The $150 plywood cost was cheap compared to what the heavy wrecker guys charge for a tug. Right, it would have at least needed a truck crane if I couldn't figure out what to do. But, it was a Saturday, and nobody would come out until Monday, anyway, so I had to improvise. The Lull reach forklift has a double-acting cylinder on the boom, so you can not only lift, but push down hard enough to raise the front wheels in the air. So, we did that, I had to stay in and hold the joystick while my friend packed dirt, logs, anything we could find into the holes the wheels made, and then set the plywood on top of it. Then, we could extend the boom and try to lift the lathe at a distance, and that would raise the rear wheels, and do the same. So, the machine, plus the deadweight of the lathe, dug ITSELF out of the hole! I can relate to that. Last spring I got a 20,000 lb 4wd crane stuck in the grass inside my U shaped driveway when I tried to turn it around by cutting across the grass. The tires would just spin in the soft, recently thawed clay - which is a lot like grease when it gets wet. It stopped sinking at about 1.5 feet down I ended up parking it there for a week until the sopping wet ground refroze, then I used the hydraulic outriggers to jack it out of the frozen dirt, put blocks under the wheels and drove it out. This machine had no outriggers, wish it had! Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
All these all in one machines have the problem of unproductive times. I own a small table top machine (google for Hommel UWG2) which is capable of 1/100 mm precision easiliy, maybe better, but it takes hours (literally!) to convert it from turning to milling, tapping etc. and vice versa, so I dont't really use it a lot. Peter Am 25.04.2013 03:21, schrieb Jon Elson: kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) Arrgh! A 3-in-1 machine. We have one at work, it is a very mediocre lathe and a horrible mill. The Smithy does have the ability to elevate the head, which ours doesn't, but still not very good at all. Get an X2 or X3-style machine for a mill, it has a rectangular dovetail column, so the head has a lot of vertical range without loss of the X-Y alignment. See http://pico-systems.com/minimill.html for some ideas on the retrofit. The rack and pinion Z axis is no good for CNC, but the machine can be converted for a vertical leadscrew without great effort. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 25 April 2013 07:37, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: All these all in one machines have the problem of unproductive times. I own a small table top machine (google for Hommel UWG2) I would really like one of those, having read http://www.lathes.co.uk/hommel/ But I can't imagine using it much, for the reasons you suggest. Note that the author of that web page is soliciting photos of the UWG2. I like the phrase Eierlegende Wollmilchsäue for it. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013, Peter Blodow wrote: All these all in one machines have the problem of unproductive times. I own a small table top machine (google for Hommel UWG2) which is capable of 1/100 mm precision easiliy, maybe better, but it takes hours (literally!) to convert it from turning to milling, tapping etc. and vice versa, so I dont't really use it a lot. Peter Am 25.04.2013 03:21, schrieb Jon Elson: kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) Arrgh! A 3-in-1 machine. We have one at work, it is a very mediocre lathe and a horrible mill. The Smithy does have the ability to elevate the head, which ours doesn't, but still not very good at all. Get an X2 or X3-style machine for a mill, it has a rectangular dovetail column, so the head has a lot of vertical range without loss of the X-Y alignment. See http://pico-systems.com/minimill.html for some ideas on the retrofit. The rack and pinion Z axis is no good for CNC, but the machine can be converted for a vertical leadscrew without great effort. Thanks for the many good opinions but I am going to be squeezed to fit in something with a footprint as small as the smithy I have looked several times at the X2/X3's but I have no room for a separate lathe Is there a better 3-in-1 than the smithy in the $2000 range Richard -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 25 April 2013 14:39, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the many good opinions but I am going to be squeezed to fit in something with a footprint as small as the smithy I have looked several times at the X2/X3's but I have no room for a separate lathe Is there a better 3-in-1 than the smithy in the $2000 range How much turning do you expect to do? And how big? Personally I am more lathe than mill oriented, and so my adequate lathe with a poor quality mill on top is bearable. if you are more mill-oriented then you can actually do a fair bit of turning with a mill, using a tool fixed to the bed, and work in the spindle. I am not convinced that _any_ new machine tools at the $2000 level are worth buying. I would always prefer to spend the same money on something second-hand that has lived an easy life. There was one of these on eBay (UK) recently. http://www.lathes.co.uk/meyerburger/index.html -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
Andy, don't get me wrong- once I made a setup for gear cutting and made a whole drawer full of change gears for the machine itself, from 24 to 240 teeth, in two days or so. Once the setup is done (gasp!) and the machine running, it has tremendous precision, no play in any spindle or screw and almost unlimited work piece size when milling. I used a demo stepper program that was supplied with the card I bought. The advantage of such a simple program is that you give it a file name and it will work it down, line by line, executing all the X,Y and Z steps that are specified by number in the file at a rate specified before. It figures trajectories from the three coordinates if I want it to. My programming language was MS Excel, the parser was MS Word. Simplest thing in the world. Look it up at www.emisgmbh.de. Peter Am 25.04.2013 12:35, schrieb andy pugh: On 25 April 2013 07:37, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: All these all in one machines have the problem of unproductive times. I own a small table top machine (google for Hommel UWG2) I would really like one of those, having read http://www.lathes.co.uk/hommel/ But I can't imagine using it much, for the reasons you suggest. Note that the author of that web page is soliciting photos of the UWG2. I like the phrase Eierlegende Wollmilchsäue for it. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
There was one of these on eBay (UK) recently. http://www.lathes.co.uk/meyerburger/index.html I'd like to see the Chinese copy *that* one! -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
--- On Thu, 4/25/13, kqt4a...@gmail.com kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the many good opinions but I am going to be squeezed to fit in something with a footprint as small as the smithy I have looked several times at the X2/X3's but I have no room for a separate lathe Is there a better 3-in-1 than the smithy in the $2000 range Look at the ones with the mill column attached to the middle rear of the bed. this company http://www.siegind.com/ manufactures the lion's share of the Chinese machine tools imported to the USA. What I think would be most usable for a 3-in-1 would be to put a small turret mill ram and head on top of the lathe headstock, thus making it sort of like a horizontal mill with the table axes turned 90 degrees. The biggest compromise with 3-in-1 machines that have the mill head on the headstock is lack of throat depth, have to take the chuck off to do much with the mill. If you make something to index the spindle you can drill spaced holes around a piece in the lathe but only directly beneath the mill spindle so that's a very limited function. If the head was on a sliding ram that would be very useful. CNC it and could do thread milling with a 60 degree pointed end mill... but since (AFAIK) there ain't such a thing as a turret head 3-in-1... With the mill column in the middle, you have a machine closer to the capabilities of a small bed mill, much more useful X axis (relative to the mill) travel but still a small table. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
I recall that there is one guy that set up a very well written blog/website discussing his shop and the purchase, initial set up, and various uses of his own 3 in 1 tool. Perhaps someone here will recall the site I mention. For the life of me I cannot recall the website and its long lost to my computer changes over time. If you can find that site, you will find a very well written discussion of the pros and cons of these units, an analysis of the various manufacturers, how to prep and set up a new machine and how to use its various capabilities. I will keep searching for the link as well. Brian -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 25 April 2013 20:23, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: Look at the ones with the mill column attached to the middle rear of the bed. I have one of those. Given the choice I would swap it for the Smithy. The Sieg lathe bed/saddle is a horrible milling table, and the column twists torsionally. I can slap it and it goes boing Removing the chuck is no big deal, I have to do it half the time with mine or I can't home with the milling vice attached. And I swap between 3-jaw and 4-jaw all the time. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013, andy pugh wrote: On 25 April 2013 20:23, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: Look at the ones with the mill column attached to the middle rear of the bed. I have one of those. Given the choice I would swap it for the Smithy. The Sieg lathe bed/saddle is a horrible milling table, and the column twists torsionally. I can slap it and it goes boing Removing the chuck is no big deal, I have to do it half the time with mine or I can't home with the milling vice attached. And I swap between 3-jaw and 4-jaw all the time. Interesting write up, http://novalab.org/cnc/ -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:00:21 +0100, you wrote: I am not convinced that _any_ new machine tools at the $2000 level are worth buying. I would always prefer to spend the same money on something second-hand that has lived an easy life. There was one of these on eBay (UK) recently. http://www.lathes.co.uk/meyerburger/index.html Here's a meatier one - Ketan at ArcEurotrade had one for while. http://www.lathes.co.uk/adcockshipleycombination/index.html A real beast! Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:27:13 +0100, you wrote: On 25 April 2013 20:23, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: Look at the ones with the mill column attached to the middle rear of the bed. I have one of those. Given the choice I would swap it for the Smithy. The Sieg lathe bed/saddle is a horrible milling table, and the column twists torsionally. I can slap it and it goes boing I've got one in bits at work, I keep meaning to sell. It's missing the milling head and the lathe headstock gears. The lathe bed is fine when used as a lathe but twists with the additional weight and leverage of the milling head. I was going to convert it to cnc and made a start (X axis done) but I did some development work for Sieg and they provided me a pre production KC6 :) After some slight modifications it's now a nice reliable and accurate machine. One of the major mods they did was to make the lathe headstock longer, narrower and rounded the corners off some. It's much beefier than the manual head. The spindle is a lot better too than the manual C6 as the bearings are much further apart, and it's a larger diameter making it far more tortionally rigid. Spindle has two opposing taper bearings at the front and a double roller at the rear for support at the drive end. I regularly run a 6 inch three jaw and an 8 inch 4 jaw chuck on it at up to 3500 rpm without any problems. (I did replace the stock brushless 1Kw motor with a 3Kw three phase). It's got the stock 600 ozf - in Nema34 steppers and drives on 75VDC and performs very well. Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
I looked into Smithy machines a couple of years ago, and decided that there was not enough rigidity in the machine for what I wanted to do. If you want to do very light, hobby work, the Smithy might be good enough. I mentor a high school robotics team, so I wanted machines big heavy enough to stand up to what students could throw at them. I ended up with a full size Bridgeport 9x42 mill (Jet), and a Craftsman 12x36 lathe. No regrets. Ray --J. Ray Mitchell Jr. jrmitche...@gmail.com (818)324-7573 “Truth is treason in the Empire of Lies.” — Ron Paul On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:35 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) Richard -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
I think the distance from the milling head to the lathe chuck is too short. You're going to run into trouble the first time you try to machine a part of any size, and taking the lathe chuck off is an option but it's a pain in the a$$. Then I looked at the Midas http://www.smithy.com/midas which looks to have a bigger swing, but the lathe bed is too short. So I would look for something that has a longer bed and a longer head swing. I am also a hobbyist and I bought a grizzly G4015Z and it has been revolutionary compared to what I had before. So my opinion is based on shortcomings in my machine that you may also run into. DougM On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:35 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) Richard -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On 24 April 2013 18:35, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) It looks like a much better basic machine than mine, and I have done some good work with mine. If you can find space for two separate machines then you won't regret it, though. Changing between modes is just irritating. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:14:15 +0100, you wrote: On 24 April 2013 18:35, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) All the ones I've seen have been poor compared a dedicated mill or lathe of the same size. At best they are a compromise and often loose rigidity and usable work envelope. If you can find space for two separate machines then you won't regret it, though. Much better idea :) Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] off topic opinions
kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: I am lookin at http://www.smithy.com/midas/pricing/xl I am a machinist virgin so it will be my first It will be strickly for hobby and entertainment Is there anyone with an opinion :) Arrgh! A 3-in-1 machine. We have one at work, it is a very mediocre lathe and a horrible mill. The Smithy does have the ability to elevate the head, which ours doesn't, but still not very good at all. Get an X2 or X3-style machine for a mill, it has a rectangular dovetail column, so the head has a lot of vertical range without loss of the X-Y alignment. See http://pico-systems.com/minimill.html for some ideas on the retrofit. The rack and pinion Z axis is no good for CNC, but the machine can be converted for a vertical leadscrew without great effort. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
