[biofuels-biz] (fwd) David Morris, Inst Local Self-Reliance, promotes plug-in hybrid
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:34:08 -0800, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for passing this on. It's particularly good to see it in a farm state, where the issues and advantages are so obvious. In my view, there seems to be a policy of (wrongly-presumed-benign) neglect of some of these issues from the Federal Level (never mind from which party), and so in my view it's also nice to see a state doing more to stem and check this neglect by some real thought, and some attempt at action. We'll hear even more about ethanol in the coming election-year debates, but it's nice to see what I think is some intelligent discussion of it, and of the critical topic of PIHEVs. It's so rare to see a mention in the consumer press http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4308754.html (I go back a long way with David and talked about them with him a few months ago.) Try hybrids, biofuels to wean us from oil David Morris Published January 9, 2004 Minnneapolis Star Tribune Caught up in the euphoria that swept the nation after President Bush announced a $1.3 billion hydrogen initiative in his State of the Union Address, the Minnesota Legislature declared last June, It is a goal of this state that Minnesota move to hydrogen as an increasing source of energy for its electrical power, heating and transportation needs. The Legislature gave $10 million to the University of Minnesota primarily to investigate hydrogen and ordered state agencies to recommend further initiatives to encourage hydrogen-related businesses. Why this infatuation with hydrogen? Because at first glance it seems an ideal fuel. Hydrogen is the planet's most abundant element. It can be extracted from water (HÓO). Fuel cells in homes and cars can use hydrogen to generate pollution-free electricity. A closer look, however, reveals that a hydrogen economy suffers from three potentially fatal flaws. ð Hydrogen exists only in combination with other elements. To uncouple hydrogen from hydrogen-carrying substances like water or natural gas or coal requires a great deal of energy. In many cases, the energy needed to produce, deliver and store hydrogen exceeds the energy contained in the hydrogen itself. ð A hydrogen economy will be a nonrenewable economy at least for the foreseeable future. Hydrogen made from fossil fuels is half to two-thirds cheaper than hydrogen made from renewable energy. Now almost 100 percent of worldwide industrial hydrogen is made from natural gas, coal or oil. ð A hydrogen economy is frightfully expensive. Before we can displace even a modest amount of oil we will need to invest hundreds of billions of dollars to build a hydrogen production, delivery and storage infrastructure and tens of billions of dollars more to put vehicles on our roads capable of using hydrogen. I commend Minnesota policymakers for being willing to embrace a bold and far-reaching transportation fuel strategy. I'm hopeful that this boldness can be reapplied to another alternative that can eliminate our reliance on imported oil at a fraction of the cost, far more rapidly and with far greater economic benefits than can a hydrogen economy. This strategy is based on a new automotive technology that dramatically changes the context for the conversation about transportation futures: the hybrid electric vehicle (HEV). Hybrids like Toyota's Prius or Honda's Insight can use electric motors as well as an engine to drive the car. The motor is used for acceleration, which avoids the significant energy losses (and pollution) that result when the car idles or in stop-and-go urban driving. Hybrids achieve fuel efficiencies today that are as high as those anticipated by fuel cell cars in the distant future. When Toyota introduces its 40-mile-per-gallon hybrid SUV this fall, the nation will realize that high-efficiency cars do not require compromising performance or size. The first step in a self-reliant transportation fuel strategy is to make hybrids the cars of choice. The second step is to expand the electric-only driving range of these vehicles by enlarging the battery capacity. The electricity for these batteries could come from the existing electricity grid. Such vehicles are now described as Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs). The average car travels only 20 miles a day. A hybrid car that can travel 60 miles on its batteries can displace almost all of the fuel needed for the engine. The widespread use of HEVs and PHEVs enables the third step, running cars on biofuels. To contrast this with the hydrogen economy we can call this a sugar economy. Ethanol is made from sugars. In the United States, corn is the primary source of the sugars. In Brazil sugar comes from sugar cane, in Europe from wheat. Soon the sugars will be extracted from astonishingly abundant cellulosic materials like corn stalks, wheat straw, grasses and urban organic wastes. Thanks to previous public policy, Minnesota boasts some 14
Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard!
sorry Todd, i ment A.S. or better Arnold Schwarzenegger Fritz - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Fritz, AR.SCH? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Hallo Todd, it is no Buissines for us,non US Citicens to change your political System. But as long you guys vote for AR.SCH i doubt anything could change Fritz from Canada - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Wonder if New Yorkers will moan, groan and whine as much as the Cronkites and Kennedys over wind turbines in Nantucket sound? http://www.battlemccarthy.com/news.html http://www.battlemccarthy.com/News1.html Also gives cause to wonder what type of catastrophe has to happen to get the solar collectors reinstalled that Reagan ripped off the roof of the White House. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Gustl
Hallo Gustl, you got it! I learned from Keiths posting,that you are still speaking a good bavarian Dialekt? Please send me a private note,if you are interestet to exchange a wengerl boarisch my Ad.: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fritz from Hirschsee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Darryl, the fact that it is not ready to use doesn't mean that it is not working. Bruce Perreault research is based on work of T.C Moray and books by Gustave Le Bone. I advice you to take a second look at his site. Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] White House Solar Photovoltaic Panels and Solar Thermal Systems
Also gives cause to wonder what type of catastrophe has to happen to get the solar collectors reinstalled that Reagan ripped off the roof of the White House. That jogged a memory. Looking into it, they didn't re-install them on the White House Itself, but rather on a nearby-building, on the grounds. http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2003/01/01222003/s_49387.asp http://www.ofee.gov/whats/whsolar.htm I don't have a recollection of what the aesthetic (or security) issues may have been when the panels were on the White House itself. I'm glad they're on the grounds, in any event. Since these articles mention some solar thermal installation as well as solar photovoltaic, I wonder to what extent hot water in the white house itself is heated with solar energy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] White House Solar Photovoltaic Panels and Solar Thermal Systems
Murdoch, I was referring to the solar collectors for hot water that Reagan had ripped out. I guess that showed Carter and all those bunny huggers, eh? Funny. I don't see the present administration embracing (Hey! That's what the article said.) anything solar.unless by worshiping old Sol they could somehow get a little more leverage in one way shape or form. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:16 PM Subject: [biofuel] White House Solar Photovoltaic Panels and Solar Thermal Systems Also gives cause to wonder what type of catastrophe has to happen to get the solar collectors reinstalled that Reagan ripped off the roof of the White House. That jogged a memory. Looking into it, they didn't re-install them on the White House Itself, but rather on a nearby-building, on the grounds. http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2003/01/01222003/s_49387.asp http://www.ofee.gov/whats/whsolar.htm I don't have a recollection of what the aesthetic (or security) issues may have been when the panels were on the White House itself. I'm glad they're on the grounds, in any event. Since these articles mention some solar thermal installation as well as solar photovoltaic, I wonder to what extent hot water in the white house itself is heated with solar energy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard!
Oh. The actor playing the role of governor. The one who is promising everyone a chicken in every pot and that he will be all things to all people. Wellmaybe he too will get a glimpse of reality when the drugs wear off and the hollywood fog lifts. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! sorry Todd, i ment A.S. or better Arnold Schwarzenegger Fritz - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Fritz, AR.SCH? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Hallo Todd, it is no Buissines for us,non US Citicens to change your political System. But as long you guys vote for AR.SCH i doubt anything could change Fritz from Canada - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't want no stinking wind in our backyard! Wonder if New Yorkers will moan, groan and whine as much as the Cronkites and Kennedys over wind turbines in Nantucket sound? http://www.battlemccarthy.com/news.html http://www.battlemccarthy.com/News1.html Also gives cause to wonder what type of catastrophe has to happen to get the solar collectors reinstalled that Reagan ripped off the roof of the White House. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel suppliers
Does anybody know if it is possible to find biodiesel in Glasgow (UK)? Allied Biodiesel Industries (UK) -- Representing the British Biodiesel Industry, links to UK suppliers, by region. http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/biobiz.htm From: Biodiesel suppliers http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#biodiesel Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
VS: [biofuel] WINTER BD
Thanks Keith, I will immediately look into Wintron XC30 this sounds promissing. Thanks again this news group is a gold mine of info for biodieselers. The weather is back to nice -3¡C. Best regards Tomas -Alkuperinen viesti- Lhettj: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lhetetty: 8. tammikuuta 2004 20:40 Vastaanottaja: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Aihe: Re: [biofuel] WINTER BD Hello Tomas Sorry for the late response to this. First, regarding additives etc, there is now some info on this at our website which you should find useful - down to -25 deg C, in one case. It's at this page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter: Journey to Forever The page isn't finished yet so it's not yet linked to the rest of our site, but what's there so far is useful to know. There's a photograph there that I took of Wintron pour-point deporessant additive in action, the biodiesel still liquid and flowing at -10 deg C while the untreated sample of biodiesel has gelled solid. It works well. I'll be putting more information on other ways of dealing with the cold on this page soon. Hello All, The winter took us again. We experienced a some how little colder peak couple of days ago. The temp went down to - 18 ¡C. We have a Nissan cabstar running on biodisel (100 %), during the colder days we start the blending with normal diesel. During the - 18¡C peak we had the other night we had a mix of around 20 % BD in the tank. Even mixed with winter diesel (-32¡C) the filter glogged. To clear the filters some drops of gasoline is dripped into the filter. A small amount of gasoline is also added to the diesel and by this taking down the BD for winter use. We do also have a Toyota Landcruiser running on BD (100 %). The mix in the Toyota was 60 % DB during the peak nigt. Even the temp came up to - 2 ¡C the fuel line was still nearly solid and we were unable to get the fuel to cirkulate. The first question which bumped into the mind was: Are there parts in the BD/D mix which are never mixed and when the temps go down it slovely accumulate in the filter and then glogging it (ex. stearin)? It does get mixed, but any saturated fats/oils will crystallise (solidify) at higher temperatures than unsaturated fats and oils and separate out, clogging the filter. That includes tallow, lard, palm oil, etc. To make biodiesel for winter, follow Alfa-Laval's advice: heat the oil first, then cool it to near 0 deg C; the saturated fats will crystallise out and sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But it still won't go much of any below -5 deg C without gelling. It seams that ones BD has gone solid it needs to be taken back over the point it goes solid. The freezing point for our BD is close to 0¡C and the melting point some deg«s higher. We have been trying to find info on winterisation of BD. When we were talking with Alfa Laval they told us that when making olive oil refreigerator compatible they take the oil down to some deg plus and then separate the solid material from the oil. We were trying this metod but unfortunately it was not solving our problem. As this metod only make the BD go from some plus deg«s to some deg minus. There are roumors that in sweden they are using some additive to take the BD down to - 15¡C. Unfortunately we have not been able to trace the additive. We have been testing with other diesel fuel additiv which takes down normal diesel to winter use but it has not been working with BD. Can some one enlight us on what actually happens when the DB goes solid and what teoretical possiblities there might be for taking BD down on the minus side? This might help: Iodine Values -- High Iodine Values -- Talking about the weather http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Winter regards from Finland :-) Thankyou. Winter regards from Japan. Best wishes Keith Tomas Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT
Re: [biofuel] Gustl
Hallo Bua! Loada is a wengerl boarish heitztaag vuizvui. Mei boarisch is scho veratzt. Mei Oma is sho 37 Joar gstarm und i hab scho siemadrei§g Johr koa boarisch gredt. And brother, I had to think a lot to write that. It just makes me sick that I am losing my German and boarisch but more and more goes every day. I was trying to think of the commands my grandfather used to give the horses and I remembered hott! right away but it took me days to remember wist! I can remember things like loabitoag because I still bake sourdough loabi and of course how could anyone ever forget wisiwisi? What is even worse for me is that I have lost a large range of my hearing because of small arms fire when I was in the military and the few people I do know who speak boarisch who come and visit ever other year or two don't speak louder to me but rephrase their sentences or begin speaking in high German. What happened in my family was that my grandmother came over here just prior to the 1WK and moved into a small Michigan town called Frankenmuth. When the war broke out US troops surrounded Frankenmuth and treated the people, most of whose families had been here since the mid 1800's, like hostile aliens. When my grandparents married they decided to speak boarisch to each other but nothing but English to their children which means that my parents didn't speak either boarisch or German. They wanted American kids. When I was a kid I would spend time with my Oma Zehender u. Tante Mirl and they would put me to bed and sit out on the back porch which was screened in because they lived on a lake and the mosquitos were bad. The back porch was just off the kitchen and there was a window between them which Oma kept open for the breeze. As they sat there speaking, Oma in boarisch and English and Tante Mirl in schwbisch and English, I would sneak out, sit on the cupboard and listen to them. I picked up a lot that way. They used a kerosene lamp for light which was pretty dim and I was very quiet so I got away with doing this for a few years. I finally got caught and Oma had me by the ear and asked me how long I had been sitting there. I told her, Ja mei Oma! I woa§ ned! That was when she started talking boarisch with me. I was 8 or 9 at the time. Probably 8. So I had boarisch for short times in the summer for about 13 years. She bought me a bible and we read it together. I got an English/German cathecism from her as well. Then she taught me the Stterlinschrift. In Viet Nam it was funny because she would address the envelope to me in English but on the inside she would write in Stterlin and my parthers would go nuts. How can you understand that crap? Anyhow, Oma died when I was 21 and still in the military. I haven't been able to speak boarisch, even in the summers, since then. I am 58 now. It is easier with high German when I get a letter because I have both the Collins German-English dictionary and even better the Wahrig deutsches Wrterbuch. Unfortunately they don't make a boarisch dictionary and even if they did there seem to be so many variations between the dialects. My shoes I call Haferlschuhe but my friend calls them Goiserer. One person says Muich and another Milli. And so on. hihihi I don't think they could even come close to a decent boarisch dictionary. I would not mind at all exchanging a wengerl boarisch but I cannot promise how much I would understand or if my grammar would be good anymore. I am ashamed to speak boarisch or German because it is so poor. :o/ It is good to know that there is at least one other boar on the list. You have made my day Landsmann! Pfatdigod, Gustl Thursday, 08 January, 2004, 17:21:23, you wrote: FF Hallo Gustl, FF you got it! FF I learned from Keiths posting,that you are still speaking a good FF bavarian Dialekt? Please send me a private note,if you are FF interestet to exchange a wengerl boarisch FF my Ad.: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FF Fritz from Hirschsee -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL
re: [biofuel] Gustl
Hallo All, Sorry for that last post to Fritz to the group. I am not only going deaf but have lost the sight in one eye and missed the reply to in the message and thought I was posting it directly to Fritz. My apologies for wasting bandwidth and inflicting that bit of personal info on you all. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gustl
no worries, it made a smile for my morning! tschss! -detrick Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo All, Sorry for that last post to Fritz to the group. I am not only going deaf but have lost the sight in one eye and missed the reply to in the message and thought I was posting it directly to Fritz. My apologies for wasting bandwidth and inflicting that bit of personal info on you all. Happy Happy, Gustl Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gustl
Gustl, Please do not apologize for the post. We (Americans) have lost too much of our heritage by loosing our native languages. My Father-in-law is a first generation Italian. His parents did not want him to learn the Italian language either. The way he got around that was he would listen to his grandfather play poker in the bar that the family had. His Grandfather did not speak any English. Therefore his marching orders came to him in Italian unless there was someone around who would try to translate. The stories that my father in-law has about the games, beer and hiding from spouses could take an entire week to hear. It was there where he learned to not only speak Italian, he was able to keep a part of his heritage that would have been lost forever. My family name is English and I am decended from horse theives (Google search : Fighting Finches.) Nothing new about culture to learn there. However I also am decended from a pack of Europeans. By the time that I was old enough to understand what was lost, it was too late to get any language or history from anyone who knew because they were all dead. fred On 9 Jan 2004, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo All, Sorry for that last post to Fritz to the group. I am not only going deaf but have lost the sight in one eye and missed the reply to in the message and thought I was posting it directly to Fritz. My apologies for wasting bandwidth and inflicting that bit of personal info on you all. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
OK Alex, I took a second look. Nothing there excites me. The fuel cell has been around since 1837. Did you look at my page on the hydrogen economy? http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm Last I heard, the cold fusion excitement has chilled considerably, as *no* attempts to replicate the results were successful. The biocell has been around longer than I have, but to my knowledge, no one has been able to scale it up to commercially viable sizes with reasonable efficiency. My recollections on the Perrault effect are vague. Perhaps someone else on the list is more knowledgeable. If you really want me to spend more of my time (which I value) on this subject, please present something more substantive to pique my interest. Just because something works, does not necessarily make it useful. Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. The fact that the technology is not ready to use means I cannot apply it to solve problems in a timeframe that I consider meaningful. Wind turbines, solar thermal, conservation, energy efficiency, biofuels, battery electric vehicles, human powered vehicles, hybrids, etc interest me because they are ready to use, and can be applied in the short term. Perhaps there is a magic bullet solution out there. I don't know for sure that there is not. I do know that many people, many smarter and better educated than me, have spent a great deal of time looking over many decades, and have little in the way of tangible results to show for it. I do not mean to tell you to give up the search, only that with the benefit of experience, it is not the road for me. My small progresses are not exciting (to anyone but me anyway), but they do show tangible, if only incremental, progress towards a more sustainable energy model. Getting back to the gist of my original post - do you have a plan for the removal of housecats in order to preserve birds? Or any of the other current realities that injure and kill far more birds than wind turbines? A! the solar heating panels (actually the blower) have just kicked on. Most welcome this morning, -31 C and -43 C is the reported wind chill equivalent. Unfortunately, the deep cold looks to have wiped out the winter crops in the unheated greenhouse. Perhaps soil heaters and planter covers for the next attempt. It will mean that my hopes of a solar-only solution will have to be amended to accommodate reality. Darryl McMahon Organization: toronto telecom To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:52:50 -0500 Subject:Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Darryl, the fact that it is not ready to use doesn't mean that it is not working. Bruce Perreault research is based on work of T.C Moray and books by Gustave Le Bone. I advice you to take a second look at his site. Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) David Morris, Inst Local Self-Reliance, promotes plug-in hybrid
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:34:08 -0800, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for passing this on. It's particularly good to see it in a farm state, where the issues and advantages are so obvious. In my view, there seems to be a policy of (wrongly-presumed-benign) neglect of some of these issues from the Federal Level (never mind from which party), and so in my view it's also nice to see a state doing more to stem and check this neglect by some real thought, and some attempt at action. We'll hear even more about ethanol in the coming election-year debates, but it's nice to see what I think is some intelligent discussion of it, and of the critical topic of PIHEVs. It's so rare to see a mention in the consumer press http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4308754.html (I go back a long way with David and talked about them with him a few months ago.) Try hybrids, biofuels to wean us from oil David Morris Published January 9, 2004 Minnneapolis Star Tribune Caught up in the euphoria that swept the nation after President Bush announced a $1.3 billion hydrogen initiative in his State of the Union Address, the Minnesota Legislature declared last June, It is a goal of this state that Minnesota move to hydrogen as an increasing source of energy for its electrical power, heating and transportation needs. The Legislature gave $10 million to the University of Minnesota primarily to investigate hydrogen and ordered state agencies to recommend further initiatives to encourage hydrogen-related businesses. Why this infatuation with hydrogen? Because at first glance it seems an ideal fuel. Hydrogen is the planet's most abundant element. It can be extracted from water (HÓO). Fuel cells in homes and cars can use hydrogen to generate pollution-free electricity. A closer look, however, reveals that a hydrogen economy suffers from three potentially fatal flaws. ð Hydrogen exists only in combination with other elements. To uncouple hydrogen from hydrogen-carrying substances like water or natural gas or coal requires a great deal of energy. In many cases, the energy needed to produce, deliver and store hydrogen exceeds the energy contained in the hydrogen itself. ð A hydrogen economy will be a nonrenewable economy at least for the foreseeable future. Hydrogen made from fossil fuels is half to two-thirds cheaper than hydrogen made from renewable energy. Now almost 100 percent of worldwide industrial hydrogen is made from natural gas, coal or oil. ð A hydrogen economy is frightfully expensive. Before we can displace even a modest amount of oil we will need to invest hundreds of billions of dollars to build a hydrogen production, delivery and storage infrastructure and tens of billions of dollars more to put vehicles on our roads capable of using hydrogen. I commend Minnesota policymakers for being willing to embrace a bold and far-reaching transportation fuel strategy. I'm hopeful that this boldness can be reapplied to another alternative that can eliminate our reliance on imported oil at a fraction of the cost, far more rapidly and with far greater economic benefits than can a hydrogen economy. This strategy is based on a new automotive technology that dramatically changes the context for the conversation about transportation futures: the hybrid electric vehicle (HEV). Hybrids like Toyota's Prius or Honda's Insight can use electric motors as well as an engine to drive the car. The motor is used for acceleration, which avoids the significant energy losses (and pollution) that result when the car idles or in stop-and-go urban driving. Hybrids achieve fuel efficiencies today that are as high as those anticipated by fuel cell cars in the distant future. When Toyota introduces its 40-mile-per-gallon hybrid SUV this fall, the nation will realize that high-efficiency cars do not require compromising performance or size. The first step in a self-reliant transportation fuel strategy is to make hybrids the cars of choice. The second step is to expand the electric-only driving range of these vehicles by enlarging the battery capacity. The electricity for these batteries could come from the existing electricity grid. Such vehicles are now described as Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs). The average car travels only 20 miles a day. A hybrid car that can travel 60 miles on its batteries can displace almost all of the fuel needed for the engine. The widespread use of HEVs and PHEVs enables the third step, running cars on biofuels. To contrast this with the hydrogen economy we can call this a sugar economy. Ethanol is made from sugars. In the United States, corn is the primary source of the sugars. In Brazil sugar comes from sugar cane, in Europe from wheat. Soon the sugars will be extracted from astonishingly abundant cellulosic materials like corn stalks, wheat straw, grasses and urban organic wastes. Thanks to previous public policy, Minnesota boasts some 14
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Alex, Please read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/9345/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/9364/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/?keywords=turbines+killing+birds Do you firmly believe that turbines kill more birds than other human-made hazards? I believe it was Steve Spence who said cats kill more birds than windmills. Should cats be banned? -- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net nnytech.net On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 10:05, alex wrote: I think that this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. In my opinion, turbine is not an answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org. Alex robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: Turbines kill birds. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Darryl, thank you for your time end efforts in taking a second look. I think the essence of what Bruce is doing can be found at www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_tube_construction.htm. The idea is to use electron emitting radioactive substances for electrical current amplification. Now regarding cats and birds. My cat was eating like a pig and yet she was killing birds and proudly was demonstrating the catch to me. I guess it was a kind of a sport...At the same time I know 2 cats who live in a barn and don't even bother to hunt anything around them - they are fully dependent on the food from a supermarket. Cats probably are no different from people -some like outdoor life and others just a coach potatoes.. Saying this, there is no sense to introduce a turbine which kills even more birds , the ones remained after cats perils and other dangers in their life. Besides they really look like an eyesore, to me, anyway. I think the real solution is in what Bruce is doing - 3 kw power station in every basement. Alex Darryl McMahon wrote: OK Alex, I took a second look. Nothing there excites me. The fuel cell has been around since 1837. Did you look at my page on the hydrogen economy? http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm Last I heard, the cold fusion excitement has chilled considerably, as *no* attempts to replicate the results were successful. The biocell has been around longer than I have, but to my knowledge, no one has been able to scale it up to commercially viable sizes with reasonable efficiency. My recollections on the Perrault effect are vague. Perhaps someone else on the list is more knowledgeable. If you really want me to spend more of my time (which I value) on this subject, please present something more substantive to pique my interest. Just because something works, does not necessarily make it useful. Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. The fact that the technology is not ready to use means I cannot apply it to solve problems in a timeframe that I consider meaningful. Wind turbines, solar thermal, conservation, energy efficiency, biofuels, battery electric vehicles, human powered vehicles, hybrids, etc interest me because they are ready to use, and can be applied in the short term. Perhaps there is a magic bullet solution out there. I don't know for sure that there is not. I do know that many people, many smarter and better educated than me, have spent a great deal of time looking over many decades, and have little in the way of tangible results to show for it. I do not mean to tell you to give up the search, only that with the benefit of experience, it is not the road for me. My small progresses are not exciting (to anyone but me anyway), but they do show tangible, if only incremental, progress towards a more sustainable energy model. Getting back to the gist of my original post - do you have a plan for the removal of housecats in order to preserve birds? Or any of the other current realities that injure and kill far more birds than wind turbines? A! the solar heating panels (actually the blower) have just kicked on. Most welcome this morning, -31 C and -43 C is the reported wind chill equivalent. Unfortunately, the deep cold looks to have wiped out the winter crops in the unheated greenhouse. Perhaps soil heaters and planter covers for the next attempt. It will mean that my hopes of a solar-only solution will have to be amended to accommodate reality. Darryl McMahon Organization: toronto telecom To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Darryl, the fact that it is not ready to use doesn't mean that it is not working. Bruce Perreault research is based on work of T.C Moray and books by Gustave Le Bone. I advice you to take a second look at his site. Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!
re: [biofuel] Gustl
Hallo All, Sorry for that last post to Fritz to the group. I am not only going deaf but have lost the sight in one eye and missed the reply to in the message and thought I was posting it directly to Fritz. My apologies for wasting bandwidth and inflicting that bit of personal info on you all. Happy Happy, Gustl :-) I really enjoyed it Gustl. Interesting that I could understand quite a lot of that - no, I'm not going to give you a whole history to explain why! It wouldn't be nearly so charming anyway. Two one-eyed members, you and Hakan, seems to me you both see rather clearly anyway. But then there's more to seeing than just having eyes, isn't there? Cold comfort perhaps - sympathies just the same, it must be very trying. Regards Keith -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
alex wrote: Darryl, thank you for your time end efforts in taking a second look. I think the essence of what Bruce is doing can be found at www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_tube_construction.htm. from the web page This prototype will be fundamentally based on Great Britain Patent No. 763,062. This patent claims that more energy is generated than what is used to excite its main component. Sounds dangerous, what if you hooked the output end to the input end? production of an infinite amount of power and the complete vaporization of the universe? Apparently patents in Great Britain don't necessarily have anything to do with reality. Now regarding cats and birds. I vote for wind turbines and against cats. But then I never was much of a cat person. -- -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Still, not a word on improving net metering from the powers that be....
Hi Murdoch keep in mind first they ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you then you win ( Mahatma Gandhi) sendt by Fritz - Original Message - From: murdoch To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Bill Moore Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: [biofuel] Still, not a word on improving net metering from the powers that be http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040109/utilities_transmission_1.html I keep thinking that someday even the presently-in-place governmental executives and legislators and administrators must *mention* the issue of improving net metering nationwide, as an important step in improving national energy policy, reducing US dependence on imports, improving homeowners' ability to provide for themselves, improving car owners' ability to generate energy for their own use, etc. But while FERC and other governmental bodies seem willing to go to the mat about all manner of relatively obscure issues, (see the enclosed story, just as an example), I don't hear or see much (any?) mention of net metering. Then, here or there, I meet this or that person still struggling with their local utility. If I'm not mistaken we even had a recent contribution from South Carolina that mentioned a utility's response that nobody had installed solar in their area and there wasn't much hope for arriving at a reasonable net metering agreement (I'll have to go back and look). So, for my money, we continue to have areas which demark major deficiencies in US federal and State policies, whose hallmark is in part the total blackout on mentioning them that comes from government officials. My view has been that it is these unmentioned areas are some of the most important battle areas, that the lack of mention of them is a conscious and deliberate attempt to keep them obscure and unfixed for as long as possible, and that run-of-the-mill internet criticism of US government is misguided when it focuses on only those areas that are already mentioned and dealt with in typical daily news and policy. It is the un-mentioned and undealt-with that I think are equally as important and in need of intelligent constructive criticism, if not more important. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 13:23, alex wrote: Darryl, thank you for your time end efforts in taking a second look. I think the essence of what Bruce is doing can be found at www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_tube_construction.htm. The idea is to use electron emitting radioactive substances for electrical current amplification. Now regarding cats and birds. My cat was eating like a pig and yet she was killing birds and proudly was demonstrating the catch to me. I guess it was a kind of a sport...At the same time I know 2 cats who live in a barn and don't even bother to hunt anything around them - they are fully dependent on the food from a supermarket. Cats probably are no different from people -some like outdoor life and others just a coach potatoes.. Saying this, there is no sense to introduce a turbine which kills even more birds , the ones remained after cats perils and other dangers in their life. Besides they really look like an eyesore, to me, anyway. I think the real solution is in what Bruce is doing - 3 kw power station in every basement. Alex Alex, the closest we can come to a perfect source of energy is the sun. As long as people rely on increasing amounts of energy to do everything we want to do, we are going to have to utilize different methods of getting this energy. Windmills are one of the most promising methods of power generation (conversion), and they cannot be overlooked because a few birds get killed. As far as a current amplifier goes, I hope you are joking. There is no device that can take energy and create more energy from it. It's not even something that the many people on this list wish to see more of. Highways look like an eyesore to me, so do power lines. Let's get rid of them. You didn't read any of the previous messages I sent, did you? Try this: http://www.cleanpowernow.org/birdkills.php -- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net nnytech.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Still, not a word on improving net metering from the powers that be....
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040109/utilities_transmission_1.html I keep thinking that someday even the presently-in-place governmental executives and legislators and administrators must *mention* the issue of improving net metering nationwide, as an important step in improving national energy policy, reducing US dependence on imports, improving homeowners' ability to provide for themselves, improving car owners' ability to generate energy for their own use, etc. But while FERC and other governmental bodies seem willing to go to the mat about all manner of relatively obscure issues, (see the enclosed story, just as an example), I don't hear or see much (any?) mention of net metering. Then, here or there, I meet this or that person still struggling with their local utility. If I'm not mistaken we even had a recent contribution from South Carolina that mentioned a utility's response that nobody had installed solar in their area and there wasn't much hope for arriving at a reasonable net metering agreement (I'll have to go back and look). So, for my money, we continue to have areas which demark major deficiencies in US federal and State policies, whose hallmark is in part the total blackout on mentioning them that comes from government officials. My view has been that it is these unmentioned areas are some of the most important battle areas, that the lack of mention of them is a conscious and deliberate attempt to keep them obscure and unfixed for as long as possible, and that run-of-the-mill internet criticism of US government is misguided when it focuses on only those areas that are already mentioned and dealt with in typical daily news and policy. It is the un-mentioned and undealt-with that I think are equally as important and in need of intelligent constructive criticism, if not more important. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Still, not a word on improving net metering from the powers that be....
That rates a chuckle. Never heard it. Thx for a good one. MM On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:12:04 -0500, you wrote: Hi Murdoch keep in mind first they ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you then you win ( Mahatma Gandhi) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Re-insurer counts cost of global warming
For the record, the architect of that terror-futures-trading scheme was our old pal, Admiral Poindexter, resurrected from felony scapegoat status. You raise an interesting question concerning the cause of an increase in insurance claims. I would add to the mix that, if indeed more people are getting insured that trend in itself may well be a consequence of an increase in risk, actual or perceived, from climate change. As for the increase in claims, if it is beyond the expected normal percentage, then something is definitely amiss. best to all, thor skov -- Message: 13 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 17:03:39 -0800 From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re-insurer counts cost of global warming Your post reminds me of last year's controversy over the Pentagon or some intelligence community attempting to set up futures trading based on betting on terrorism and such events, the link being that if folks' money is on the line in a futures trading format, there is a track record to indicate (the reasoning goes) that such bets have predictive value over other prediction systems. In any event, in the case of insurance, I question if some of the rise in disaster costs corresponds, in part, to a rise in insurance use and not, in itself, to a rise in disasters. I.e., if more folks are paying for insurance and filing claims, then this, in itself, would not indicate a rise in warming-related-disasters. This is not to say there mightn't be a rise in disasters, only to question what other factors might also contribute to the rise in claims. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
