Re: t-and-f: M.I.A. ?
--- "Michael J. Roth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone might want to start a missing persons report on the illustrious E. Garry Hill of TFN fame. We have not been graced by his presence much, if at all, since Sydney. 2. He was attacked and mauled by a rapid Koala in the Outback. Randy??? I know RT's been critical of the smoke filled rooms at TFN at voting time... Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 9,400 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: M.I.A. ?
On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:36:39 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: --- "Michael J. Roth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone might want to start a missing persons report on the illustrious E. Garry Hill of TFN fame. We have not been graced by his presence much, if at all, since Sydney. 2. He was attacked and mauled by a rapid Koala in the Outback. Randy??? I know RT's been critical of the smoke filled rooms at TFN at voting time... Dan that's because the smoke in that smoke-filled room is...well... we haven't heard the Clintonesque claim that they 'didn't inhale' ! Think it's more than coincidence that recent AOY's on both the men's and women's side were "M-J" ? ...I rest my case... btw, better to be a 'rapid Koala' than a 'rabid Koala' :-) RT
RE: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment)
Darrell, I think you'll find that the majority of the criticism of Mo and his mates was from within the US, not from outside. In fact, I was one of those who publicly said that I was not troubled by their antics. What I also pointed out was that the reaction to the 4x1 celebrations should be understood in the context of a series of displays of unfortunate behaviour by American Olympians in Sydney, from Carter to the Dream Team. The 4x1 was, so to speak, the straw that broke the camel's back. As it is, they became (rightly or wrongly) the examplars of a side of the American psyche which has long caused cultural tensions but which to many appeared particularly out of place in the atmosphere of goodwill and friendliness which was such a credit to Sydney. I mean no judgement here, I'm just seeking to put a perspective on the discussion. As for L-F, no-one has commented for the obvious reason that very few of us has seen any TV pictures. When we do see it, I suspect that we will see spontaneous joy at the moment of triumph, rather than a 20 minute display of showboating which held up the next event by several minutes. No-one objects to celebration - the looks of crazy joy on the faces of athletes as they win (witness MJ and DB in 96) is wonderful. Where celebration (good) ends and showboating (bad) begins is a simple matter of personal taste. Justin -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:18 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment) ANd what sour grapes would I have? My athlete ran 44.66, the second fastest time by a junior ever. I have no sour grapes to mash. And I expect all you saw was him kiss the track. Of course, you missed the looking back, the yelling at the crowd, the "look at me" theatrics that many on this list love to lambaste. My point is simple, it all depends on the person, not the actions. As for his confidence, I think taking 2nd or 3rd at your nationals/Olympic trials would be a definite boost. And if he is worth his weight he will take very little from defeating a field that finished .2 seconds behind him. He was far and away beyond anyone in Chile. It was simply an easy victory, one he could have won falling down at the start. With his talent, and at age 17, he would have benefitted greatly from competing on the main stage. Making the semi finals at the OG's is not an easy task, and one I think he could have easily done. From watching him I am positive he would have made the final. Respectfully, I submit this all as my opinion on the young man's career. He has a promising future, and I think he sold himself short in this case. Plus, he could have done both if that was his desire. Darrell The G.O.A.T. ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
RE: t-and-f: Embarassment
Hi All Darrell says that the US places little importance on juniors, and this attitude is also reflected in his view that Lewis-Francis was wasting his time at the WJC. The view on this side of the Atlantic is diametrically opposite. In the UK we place an enormous significance on junior competition and consider the major junior championships to be very significant stepping stones in the career of a young athlete. L-F's choice was entirely consistent with this view and was almost universally approved and welcomed among supporters, who felt that it was too early for him to run in the OG and that his progression would be better served by competing against his peers. He will now have the confidence which comes with winning a world title, which can only benefit him. The hope is that he can develop into a great champion and then maintain that career for years. The benefits of this emphasis are clear. Every single one of the young sprinters you see competing in a GB vest came through the junior ranks. In fact, I doubt you will find a single UK international athlete under the age of 30 who did not compete at international level as a junior. The success of GB athletes at the European Junior Champs in recent years has been the bedrock on which the careers of some of our best athletes have been built. This enlightened approach contrasts with the almost total lack of support for young athletes as recently as 15 years ago. Talented juniors went from dominating their age group to be heavily beaten by older athletes as soon as they turned 20, which leads to disillusionment and loss of confidence early on. The junior programme and the under-23 competitions are designed to ease this process and have been tremendously successful. Strangely, this has been achieved without decimating the education of the athletes, despite the fact that our school year starts in September and runs through to July, with continuous assessment every bit as important as end of year exams. In fact, the current crop of young athletes are notable for their intelligence, articulacy and maturity. Perhaps where there is a will The US has a strong high school and collegiate tradition which in many ways replicates the benefits of junior international competition in Europe. Bearing this in mind, I am very surprised by the contemptuous dismissal of world junior titles by certain US list members. But perhaps I should not be surprised. It's clear that those same list members consider the US to be an extraordinary and unique case as regards every issue raised, from drugs to popularity to behaviour to youngsters, with nothing to learn from the way this global sport is successfully managed beyond the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines. Best wishes, Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: t-and-f: Facts on Medhi Baala
For those who'd like to know more about Mehdi Baala: he was born in 1978 in France from a French mother and an Algerian father. He has always lived in Strasbourg where he started athletics as an under 17 when his friends ask him to be part of the biggest local club's cross country-team. 1995 1500m under 17 French champion and French record 1996 1500m under 19 French champion; WC under 19 1500m: heats 1997 WC xc under 19 : 129th ; EurCh under 19 1500 7th 1999 under 23 1500m French record; Eur Ch under 23 1500m 3rd 2000 EC indoor 1500m 3rd; Eur Cup 800m 1st, 1500m 1st Progression 1500m 94 (16) 4'08"1 95 (17) 3'48"74 96 (18) 3'43"50 97 (19) 3'45"34 98 (20) 3'41"86 99 (21) 3'34"83 00 (22) 3'32"05 800m 94 (16) 1'56"5 95 (17) 1'53"76 96 (18) 1'49"62 97 (19) 1'50"08 98 (20) 1'49"57 99 (21) 1'46"41 00 (22) 1'46"24 Girlfriend Hanane Sabri, 800m runner, competed in the US for one season (1998/99) as an exchange student in the univesrity Bowling Green (Ohio). Carole Fuchs --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Where is this feller originally from? maybe Turkey?. any background on him out there? clear 4th in the Oly games. and also, did James Carter, he of the taunt, get any reprimands from the authorities?...it seems to me that althought the medal stand business was kind of bordering in wwf idiocy, im surprised that one of the other people in the semi didnt come up after the race and whack Carter. Felix Cabrera ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
Justin wrote: Hi All Darrell says that the US places little importance on juniors, and this attitude is also reflected in his view that Lewis-Francis was wasting his time at the WJC. The view on this side of the Atlantic is diametrically opposite. In the UK we place an enormous significance on junior competition and consider the major junior championships to be very significant stepping stones in the career of a young athlete. L-F's choice was entirely consistent with this view and was almost universally approved and welcomed among supporters, who felt that it was too early for him to run in the OG and that his progression would be better served by competing against his peers. He will now have the confidence which comes with winning a world title, which can only benefit him. The hope is that he can develop into a great champion and then maintain that career for years. The benefits of this emphasis are clear. Every single one of the young sprinters you see competing in a GB vest came through the junior ranks. In fact, I doubt you will find a single UK international athlete under the age of 30 who did not compete at international level as a junior. The success of GB athletes at the European Junior Champs in recent years has been the bedrock on which the careers of some of our best athletes have been built. This enlightened approach contrasts with the almost total lack of support for young athletes as recently as 15 years ago. Talented juniors went from dominating their age group to be heavily beaten by older athletes as soon as they turned 20, which leads to disillusionment and loss of confidence early on. The junior programme and the under-23 competitions are designed to ease this process and have been tremendously successful. Strangely, this has been achieved without decimating the education of the athletes, despite the fact that our school year starts in September and runs through to July, with continuous assessment every bit as important as end of year exams. In fact, the current crop of young athletes are notable for their intelligence, articulacy and maturity. Perhaps where there is a will The US has a strong high school and collegiate tradition which in many ways replicates the benefits of junior international competition in Europe. Bearing this in mind, I am very surprised by the contemptuous dismissal of world junior titles by certain US list members. But perhaps I should not be surprised. It's clear that those same list members consider the US to be an extraordinary and unique case as regards every issue raised, from drugs to popularity to behaviour to youngsters, with nothing to learn from the way this global sport is successfully managed beyond the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines. Best wishes, Unlike others, I think that the US has a very strong Juniors program .. It is called the NCAA .. That is where the talent base is developed in this country .. As such these young people have obligations to their schools which in many cases involves football and cross country during this time of year .. It is not the "traditional" system used elsewhere in the world .. But as Justin points out we don't always do things the same way here ... The develop[ment program for the NCAA is the Junior College system .. SO a true Juniors program is way down on the list as Darrell stated .. But between the JUCO and NCAA systems we seem to do a fair job of getting talent produced .. I do think we miss the boat, however, on overall development as we probably miss a ton of youth each year that fall out of the system before reaching wither of these college programs .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment)
Nonsense!!! You make a terrible assumption and so did he. Who says he will be back in 2004?! Jason Gardener was the best Brit last year, he got sick at the WC, and got hurt this year, lost to a 17 yr old phenom, who graciously gave up his spot for him. Dwain Chambers did not medal, Darren Campbell wins silver in the 200m, and the vaunted British relay does not get the stick around. There are NO guarantees in this game, and thinking you will have another chance at OG glory is foolhardy. I think it was an incredible chance to take, and the bottom line is that in sprints if the US does not take it seriously, it is downgraded, on the international level. And like I said, he competed against a field that was a tenth of a second slower than him at their best, and 2 tenths slower than him in the final. I was at the meet, and it resembled nothing of a World Championship. I appreciate the significance of any World title (I coached one of the winners), but I do not confuse the atmosphere, or pressure with that of World's, and definitely not the Olympics. Take Monique Henderson for example. While I think it was unfair the way she was treated, and used or not used, I know it was invaluable for her to be there and see, and experience what it is all about at this level. Even if it is simply the removal of the mystique of it. She knows what it will be like to be there, if she makes it back. She will be more of a red-shirt, than a true freshman. There is no substitute for that, and I think Mark missed a golden opportunity. Lest we forget he could have done both meets. DGS The G.O.A.T.
Re: t-and-f: Olympic memories
Typo! Sorry. The G.O.A.T.
RE: t-and-f: Embarassment
--- Justin Clouder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am very surprised by the contemptuous dismissal of world junior titles by certain US list members. But perhaps I should not be surprised. It's clear that those same list members consider the US to be an extraordinary and unique case as regards every issue raised, from drugs to popularity to behaviour to youngsters, with nothing to learn from the way this global sport is successfully managed beyond the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines. As a US list member who would rather watch the international competition in all but the sprints, favors the US qualifying system (Olys), considers the US to be just as guilty of drug use as anyone, and feels certain US athletes acted like immature idiots in Sydney, let me just say, "Junior World Championships? What the heck is that???" Ok, so I'm being somewhat sarcastic, but I agree entirely with those who have said it's a virtually meaningless event in this country. Why does that need to come across as an excuse? Explanations and excuses are two entirely different things. So what if the US had a poor showing? Few people here are losing sleep over it. The rest of the world is getting better, but I don't recall seeing any signs that the US is getting worse. Have I missed something, aside from a few key injuries (such as MJ and AJ)? L-F won Juniors; good for him. The top US folks didn't attend; good for them. Let people pursue their own interests/priorities, the US team will still field a strong squad when the time comes. By the way, what's up with the prediction 40 years ago that the lack of a junior program would spell the doom of the US team?! I'd love to see that one charted out... Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 9,400 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Big Sky Entries
Entries for the Big Sky XC Championships this saturday are posted at http://www.resultzone.com Doug Lynch Lynx Timing
t-and-f: Perspective
In a message dated 10/24/00 5:26:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for L-F, no-one has commented for the obvious reason that very few of us has seen any TV pictures. When we do see it, I suspect that we will see spontaneous joy at the moment of triumph, rather than a 20 minute display of showboating which held up the next event by several minutes. No-one objects to celebration - the looks of crazy joy on the faces of athletes as they win (witness MJ and DB in 96) is wonderful. Where celebration (good) ends and showboating (bad) begins is a simple matter of personal taste. Justin Let me clarify a few points. Yes, I can be antagonizing, but truthfully I just hate misinformation, and the 4x100m debacle is full of misinformation. 1) The 4x400m was not held up!!! Nothing stopped the show in Sydney. Not even Cathy sitting on the track. That was a blatant lie. The guys were 50m from the finish when they started announcing the teams, and at that point the guys all walked to press row. 2) The amount of boos and whistles was greatly over exaggerated. The guys took so long because each section of the audience applauded and to their demise the guys responded to each section. Overall the crowd loved every minute of it, the guys had no reason to think they were being over the top. 3) Maurice sticking his tongue out has nothing to do with clowning, or even a conscious action. Some people lick their lips, some people sheepishly laugh/giggle, some look down, some simply freeze up, Maurice's tongue sticks out and he licks his lips. He was not clowning to the cameras ( check the tape). During the national anthem every one, except for Brian was singing the song, ever word of the song! The 2 moments of questionable judgement were Brian placing the medal on his forehead, and Bernard continuing his Rock impression. What I have found upon my arrival home is that many of you are operating from a point of ignorance because the coverage was terrible. All many people know of the incident is what was reported, and that is a tragedy, and a terrible injustice to all parties. People, none of it was as bad as you think, or thought. The first anyone heard of a problem was when the guys got underneath to the US press, and even then an immediate apology was issued by all involved. Personally, I thought it was terrible exercise of journalistic license. The vents of that night were so over blown in the press it was sad, and you at home had very little to go on otherwise to see for yourselves. I will move this to personal emails if the thread continues, my apologies to the list for taking this moment away from track. DGS The G.O.A.T.
Re: t-and-f: Olympic memories
Darrell wrote: 1. Kevin Young 46.48! The culmination of ten years of blood, sweat, and tears. The whole race was a thing of beauty, his easy strides, and confident demeanor were fulfilling. And it was something that was never done before. Kevin was actually 46.78, but still an awesome performance by any stretch of the imagination .. And is probably right up there with Michael's 19.32 .. It may be more than a decade before it is even appraoched since the record it erased was pretty much unapporachable .. 3. Tommie Smith/Bob Beamon 1968 Bob's jump and subsequent reaction are things that dreams are made of. It was not Tommie that makes this race memorable, it was the reaction of John Carlos. I agree that Carlos mid race reaction to Tommie going past helped make the race memorable .. But in what world championship final have you ever seen anyone come from so far back to win by such a margin ?? With the exception of the let down race at this year's Olympics, World Championship 200s are almost always won from the front .. And when the race is won from "behind (a la this year or Frederick's in 1993 at the worlds) the person is already "in the pack" and wins by a relatively small margin .. Tommie blasted this race from behind and won going away - after injuring a hamstring in his semi Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment)
In a message dated 10/24/00 10:00:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the sort of arrogance which drives non-Americans absolutely nuts. The fastest US junior this year has run 10.18. MLF has run 10.10, 10.12 and 10.13, the last of those into a headwind. I fail to see how we should consider MLF's win 'downgraded'. There is no teenager on the planet who can touch him, even at their best. Bear in mind also that the US won precisely two individual medals in the sprints in Sydney, despite all four competitions being extremely weak by recent standards. MJ was the only female finalist from the US in either event, while aside from Mo the US men managed a 5th, a 7th and an 8th. The US has two glorious champions, but does not have the strength in depth of yesteryear. It was this very waning of US dominance which was behind my assault on the first-3 system earlier this year - the US cannot afford any longer to send its third fourth and fifth strings to major events Now we are full of contradictions here Justin, and you just strengthen my point about Mark. He is far and away better, and it showed. It showed to the point that he was wasting his time competing there against NO competition. The series of times you reeled off would have put him in the Olympic final, enough said. The arrogance you interpret, is not arrogance at all on my part. It is a simple fact that everyone knows. Even you know that when there are no Americans running well in the sprints everyone starts with the what if's. When FF and DB were dominating the sprint scene, the buzz was who will be the next American to step up. It is a question asked by all nationalities, even on the list it was asked. It is not arrogance, it is reality. A reality that is hoped by some to be changed, and by some to remain the same. Like I stated before, the US has not gotten weaker, the rest of the world has gotten stronger, and that is a good thing. And like someone else stated, the US does not see the need for Jr WC, but other countries do, so be it. My point is a simple one, Mark is a phenom, and the timing was perfect for him. He came out at the London GP and took 3rd in a quality feed. He went to the British trials and made the Olympic team. Now your response is that Jason deserved the spot on merit. That line of reasoning is consistent with sending Mark for the experience, except for one thing. Mark physical proved he was ready. Jason only got through on merit, and physically was not ready. And I know with Mark on that 4x100 they are much better. I do not see the harm in having him participate in both events, given the timing of both. The travel is inconsequential, that is a part of the game. The stress was not going to be a factor, per se, because the events are 2 entirely different experiences. There was no stress for him in Chile. And as for your argument about depth, we still dominate the relays. And barring an ill timed injury no one stops Inger from taking the silver or gold in both sprints. On the men's side we had 2 Americans in both finals of the 100 and 200. I do not ever remember the US sweepine the sprints, and only on a few special occassions did we take 2 medals. Our dominance has always been based upon the gold, of which we have won the last 3 majors. DGS The G.O.A.T.
RE: t-and-f: Olympic memories
Other Olympic air-punching, tear-inducing moments for me: Seb Coe's second 1500m win. Controversy over selection (twas ever thus!), a rising star to beat (Cram), and he won it in such style. Then there was the uncharactaristic loss of control at the end. Wonderful. Christie's stare, while Burrell fidgeted. As they lined up for the '92 100m final, a single TV shot showed why Christie was a great champion and Burrell, depite greater talent, was not. Christie stares straight ahead, rock solid, not even blinking, while Burrell fidgets, adjusts his kit and shows all the symptoms of shredded nerves. Cathy Freeman this year. I doubt any athlete has ever had to compete under such pressure. The noise in the stadium was just unreal. Watching Cathy sit for a few minutes to rather herself after she won really brought home what she had gone through. I cried and cried Geb vs Tergat in Atlanta. Man, what a race. Tergat gave it everything he had, a performance worthy of an Olympic champ, but Geb was too good. Again. El G this year. The flipside of the triumphs. I've never seen anyone so distraught, and I've never seen someone lose who would have ben a more deserving champion. I cried because he lost! Just a selection Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: t-and-f: M.I.A. ?
What could he possibly add to the analysis we've seen here of drugs,
politics, bad sportsmanship, and the decline of the Olympic spirit as a
result of professionalism. Oh--you mean the results!
Bill Bahnfleth
At 10:01 AM 10/24/2000 -0700, cbn wrote:
Or #5. GH might be busy reporting the Olympics.
- Original Message -
From: "William Bahnfleth" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Michael J. Roth" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Track Listserve"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: M.I.A. ?
4. New career in acting. I think he's the guy being thrown through the
doors of the saloon by a woman ("no" auf Australian) in that Foster's ad
that's been running lately.
wb
At 11:48 PM 10/23/00 -0400, Michael J. Roth wrote:
Someone might want to start a missing persons report on the illustrious
E. Garry Hill of TFN fame. We have not been graced by his presence
much, if at all, since Sydney.
Three theories come to mind:
1. Rather than put a race walker on the cover as Male AOY, he went
walkabout with Crocodile Dundee.
2. He was attacked and mauled by a rabid Koala in the Outback.
3. He is a contestant on Survivor II.
MJR
___
William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E.
Associate Professor
Department of Architectural Engineering
The Pennsylvania State University
224 Engineering Unit A
University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA
voice: (814)863-2076 / fax: (814)863-4789
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm
___
_
William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E.
Associate Professor
Department of Architectural Engineering
The Pennsylvania State University
224 Engineering Unit A
University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA
voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm
_
t-and-f: Dublin City Marathon
The Irish Times Tuesday, October 24, 2000 Ian O'Riordan Jamie Lewis is set to provide the main Irish challenge in next Monday's Dublin City Marathon, where he hopes to become the first Irishman to win the event since John Treacy in 1993. The elite entries for the men's race were confirmed yesterday, and the man most likely to deny Lewis is defending champion John Mutai of Kenya. He won his first Dublin title a year ago and on Sunday finished a respectable third in the Great North Run, suggesting similar form to last year. Three other Kenyan entries will ensure a demanding pace at the front. Of those, Wilson Cheruiyot, winner of the Belfast and Glasgow Marathons earlier this year, has the most impressive credentials. Lewis made his marathon debut in Dublin last year, finishing a respectable fourth in two hours, 19 minutes, 58 seconds. Three former winners of the women's race are also returning this year. Belfast's Teresa Duffy has experienced mixed fortunes since winning the race two years ago, but she is hoping to recover her best form on Monday. Also in the elite line-up is Carol Galea of Malta, the winner in 1997, and Trudi Thomson of Scotland, winner in 1995. Entries for the race, which have now closed, have surpassed the 9,000 mark - the highest in almost a decade. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: Marl Lewis-Francis
There has been a lot of discussion on the list about Mark Lewis-Francis after his brilliant World Junior championships success. The discussion has centered on his decision to pass the chance of Olympic selection. What has not been made clear is that while he was a certainty to have been chosen to be on the British Olympic squad, it is highly unlikely that he would actually have run in Sydney. 1. In the individual 100m - the first two in the British Trials were guaranteed selection - and those two were Dwain Chambers (10.11) and Darren Campbell (10.12). These two were later 4th and 6th in Sydney. The third choice was at the discretion of the selectors. At the Trials Lewis-Francis was 3rd in 10.24 and Jason Gardener 4th in 10.29. Lewis-Francis declined before the selection was made, but I think it very probable that Gardener (who had run 9.98 in 1999 when he was a World finalist and who had also won the 2000 European Indoor title) would have been chosen on his proven championships form. He had been held back by injury, but had run 10.09 in Laussanne on 5 July and had beaten Campbell, Chambers ... and Maurice Greene in the GB v USA match at Gateshead on 2 July. Lewis-Francis had not met Gardener before the Trials, but had run 10.10 to win the B race at the British Grand Prix. 2. Lewis-Francis would have been selected for the 4x100m relay squad, but again I do not believe that he would have been included in the team that ran any of the rounds. The management (wrongly) stuck with proven relay runners as Britain's squad for the first-round heat was Allyn Condon, Jason Gardener, Marlon Devonish and Dwain Chambers - and this team managed to get disqualified on two relay change-overs. Campbell (and perhaps Christian Malcolm) was rested - and a much faster runner than Condon and Devonish in Ian Mackie was ignored, so I think that Lewis-Francis, who had never run with the others, would not have run in this event either. So surely he was right to forget about just going to Sydney for experience of just being close to the action, but rather to concentrate on the World Junior title (and relay gold as well). Peter Matthews, Editor International Athletics Annual, Co-publisher Athletics International 10 Madgeways Close, Great Amwell, Ware, Herts SG12 9RU, England Tel. 44 (0)1920 870434, Fax 44 (0)1920 877392
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
I must disagree with Conway's assertion that we have a good junior program and it is the NCAA and JUCO programs. By the time they get to be 18 years old it is way too late to really develop the sport. Some sort of widespread programs need to start before age 10 so that kids are as exposed to opportunities to "play" track as they are to baseball or soccer. Given its focus on elites only, the limitations imposed by the major sports like football, and Title IX, the NCAA does a tremendous job in its limited arena. And it is certainly true that 98% of our Olympic TF athletes are developed by NCAA programs (no surprise since they are the only game in town). But the NCAA will not and maybe cannot be anything more than a small piece of the overall puzzle. There is loads of blame to go around, but the scenario is something like this: 1. 80% or more of the potential track stars get involved enough in another sport before high school that they never try track. 2. Another 15% end up doing another sport in high school - with no real exposure to youth track programs in the U.S. compared to other sports, this is no surprise. 3. Of the 5% that do compete in high school, 2% never reach their potential due to the sorry state of the "average" high school program and the low pay and high turnover among coaches. These 2% never compete in college. 4. Of the 3% that make it to an NCAA program, 1.5% of those are victims of poor coaches who are not able to focus on individual needs or programs that are not supportive or Title IX cuts. 5. Of the 1.5% that are successful in the NCAA, only 1% are able to really pursue track due to the lack of post-collegiate support. These percentages are intended to illustrate the basic premise, not as anything like "real" percentages. So what can USATF do? It can certainly address #1 and #5 and have some impact on #2. But it's not hard to see that the current focus of USATF is on the 1% of the potential stars, not on the 80% we are losing before they even get to high school. - Ed Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
At 04:28 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: I must disagree with Conway's assertion that we have a good junior program and it is the NCAA and JUCO programs. By the time they get to be 18 years old it is way too late to really develop the sport. Some sort of widespread programs need to start before age 10 so that kids are as exposed to opportunities to "play" track as they are to baseball or soccer. there is ...it is called the Hershey Program. You're joking, right? The Hershey program, the AAU juniors, the USATF junior olympics are all tiny compared to the programs in football, baseball,basketball,soccer and several others. That doesn't mean they are bad programs, just that they aren't accomplishing even 5% of the coverage that we need. Add to that the fact that all three groups in general believe they don't need the other two and you have a recipe for a muddled set of incomplete programs that cannot be called development. - Ed Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Khannouchi will run 2001 London Marathon
This raises an interesting question. Does anyone know what the selection process is going to be for Edmonton. Khalid has said that he wants to run for the U.S. @ worlds. But, is London going to fit into the selection criteria. At 06:27 PM 10/23/00 -0700, you wrote: A day after winning the Chicago Marathon, Khalid Khannouchi confirmed he will run in next spring's London Marathon. The Moroccan, granted United States citizenship five months ago, set a United States marathon record in Chicago of 2hr 7min 1sec. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com Tony Banovich Billings, Montana
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/23/00 7:54:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The athletes have to pick and choose what meets they want to go to since unlike most European countries, you can't drive anywhere in the country in a few hours. Air travel or an extended road trip (1 to 2 weeks) are the only options. Both scenarios cost a lot of money and this money comes from the athlete's parents' pockets, not a club or national federation. Not entirely correct. The USATF, along with additional support from the National Scholastic Sports Foundation, provides a fairly sizeable amount of financial support for those Elite athletes competing at the USATF National Jr Champs. The NSSF provides full or partial support for a great many athletes competing at the Foot Locker TF Championships. mike byrnes, President, NSSF
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/23/00 9:52:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since Craig Masback took office, I have pressed him on the issue of grass roots development. He tends to agree with the above observation, but he has made it clear that improving the lot of the current elite meets is priority number one. The theory is that by improving visibility and exposure at the elite level, it will trickle down to the grass roots. Reminds me of Reagan's "trickle down" theory. Masback has done a monumental job and can't be expected to solve all the problems in one fell swoop. I think he's done a great deal towards helping the Jr athlete but there's a huge amount of work to do and to paraphrase Regis, "He's just one man." As I have told him, I hope he's right. But I suspect that like any good structure, the most important part is the base and the top will follow from that. - I feel you're right. But USATF is totally dominated by the college coaches and there will never be any real changes until they, as a group, want to see such change. Part of the problem is the current USATF structure. There are 57 associations who should theoretically be in charge of grass roots programs of all sorts. But these associations get little in the way of guidance and support and thus are failing miserably at really building the kind of programs that are needed. Politically, within USATF, it would be impossible to get rid of the association concept but it would be equally impossible to divert resources away from anything else to support associations. I am heavily involved with USATF, but it's still not hard to see that nothing appears ready to change. The only group that could really make the difference would be if the elite athletes used their significant block of votes to push for major changes. But they are more concerned with their own immediate needs, and I can't really blame them. So while we can blame USATF as a whole, it's a little hard to figure out who we're really blaming. I don't know if "blame" is the correct word. To be honest, there's not much USATF can do to vastly improve the Jr program. They only influence the kids during the summer months. The organization offers numerous coaching clinics which are quite well attended so coaches can keep abreast of new trends and techniques if they want. As one who's deeply involved with the Jr athletes let me offer a few suggestions; 1) There should be 3-4 touring teams during the summer rather than one that goes to the World/Pan Am competition. 2) USATF should provide some financial support to local major meets so our best kids can get to meets where they'll meet superior competition. Since USATF can't play much of a role over the summer months, invest in those meets that do provide our kids with superior competitive opportunities. 3) It's imperative the college coaches who head up ALL the competition committees become more involved with the Elite high school kids. NCAA rules will prohibit much of this type thing but if more HS coaches were brought into the committees, they could do a lot more than a collegiate mentor is permitted. (NOTE: To go anywhere within USATF it's imperative a person attend the USATF convention. For the college coach, this isn't too difficult, for a hs coach it's almost impossible. As a former hs teacher/coach I could have never dreamed of going to my principal and saying, 'I need a week off to go the a convention.' Some hs coaches can, the vast majority cannot. Thus, our largest pool of those who have a great deal of influence over the Jr athlete are virtually excluded from his/her development within USATF.) 4) Try and remove some of the politics from the selection of coaches for internation Jr teams. There are a great many hs coaches who are immensely qualified to handle this type assignment but almost universally they are never even considered, UNLESS they have an angel. That's wrong and it wastes our greatest coaching resource. 5) Recognize the fact that without a constant source of new faces coming into the international picture, the downward slide of the US is bound to continue. Investing in the future of this nation's international future is money well-spent. 6) The USOC must take on part of this burden. This organization has infinitely more money than USATF but spends it quite sparingly. If they put $1,000,000 into the Jr program all of the aforementioned items I've mentioned could be accomplished. You say, "That's a lot of money!" My reply, "We're talking about the future of our sport. $1,000,000 is chump change." Sorry to have taken up so much space but I've criticized the program and the organization, I felt I should attempt to offer some ideas as to how to effect change for the better. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/23/00 11:05:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For many, unfortunately, being picked is just a plum reward for years of playing USATF politics correctly. I'm glad you said that.
Re: t-and-f: USA at the World Junior Champs
In a message dated 10/23/00 9:36:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, now that everyone outside and inside the USA borders has had their turn at "beating a dead horse", I still say that most of you are missing the point. There is nothing on the horizon that will replace the 100 years old US public high school system of athletic competition. Yeah, a strong club system sounds great, and where is the huge financial support that public schools now contribute going to come from? For most American kids high school is THE FOCUS of their universe. That's not going to change. For most American high school athletes track and field is introduced as their "second" sport. A World Championships in October just isn't that important compared to football, volleyball, basketball. If it's in July or August, yeah they'll get excited, provided they can be back time for preseason. Anyone remember the name Tory Mitchell? If any one could have beaten Chris Malcolm in '98 he could of. But getting ready for football was more important. Mitchell of course isn't playing anything now, he back home in Big Spring, Tx (another story entirely). Your point is well-taken. But it's not as certain as it once was. Several athletes have found they can make a good living in track, the lure of FB not withstanding. The truly surprising thing to me was the fact USATF sent as "big" a squad as it did. I seem to remember talk in '98 about skipping the meet completely. But then there was the feeling that we needed to support the IAAF (or that there was some penalty for not going, such as housing availability at future championships) I can't say for sure. And USATF should be applauded for doing so. We snipe at that organization constantly and I would have been the first one on the bandwagon to maul them had we not sent a full team. USATF did its job, the coaches and kids failed to do theirs. The bottom line is every country has it's own set of circumstances to deal with. Here's and opportunity for the world to beat it chest and crow that theirs is a better system. Go right ahead; but, you can't decree something is important. I love the Juniors probably more than I do "seniors". I've coached in high school going on 32 years now, it's the best. But the ultimate bottom line is that in the USA junior competitions don't hold the same aura as the Olympics and what happened in Chile has little to do with what will happen in future Olympics for the USA. That is not the case every where. I trust that the Britons are looking with relish at the future of Mark Lewis-Francis and Chris Malcolm. If they were Americans they would probably be playing football (no not soccer) right now and dreaming of Bowl games and the NFL. Different place, different aspirations. As I recall, the biggest event in the sporting world is the World Cup not the Super Bowl nor any bowl game. In GB soccer (football) is a far bigger sport than the NFL is here. My biggest problem with this whole tread is the "oh we're terrible and we're going to get worse" on one side and the "hooray our way is better, you guys just cry sour grapes when things don't going your way" on another side. Maybe some of you have noticed but the world isn't so clear cut. Tolerance isn't a strong point of this list and dissecting a topic is usually accomplished with the deft touch of a sledgehammer. I wish I had the strength to lift such an object. But sometimes you have hit the mule with a sledgehammer to get him to pay attention. For what it's worth, our system is far better than anyone elses, our winning the World Jr meet in '92 and taking a close 2nd in '96 proves that. The fact remains the performance of the US team in Santiago was an embarassment. Andy Ferrara Ass't Men's Coach 1998 USATF Junior Team
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/24/00 1:05:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While politics do play a role in selection for staff for worlds, olys, world jrs, etc. the staff reallly is not *at all* to blame. everyone knew before (due to the date of the world jrs) that the US team wasn't going to do very well. Rocky Danners coaches mustn't have been told we weren't going to do well. i wouldn't blame the hs or college coaches either. there aren't many meets from late july to september that an aspiring junior can enter of any real quality except junior olympics. and at the young men/young women (17-19 age group) age group the competition really isn't very representative of what the US has to offer. I thought this was the World JR meet, 19 and under. i knew we'd get blasted at world jrs once i found out we were sending a skeleton crew. most athletes have problems finding coaches, facilities, and motivation to train through October. It's really a lot tougher situation than most can appreciaite. this is not an excuse - it's simply a reality. by acknowledging this reality it takes **Nothing** away from what happened in Chile. The athletes from other countries who were there performed and did what was needed -- it's that simple. Not quite. The coaching staff knew we were going into a very tough situation. It was their responsibility to do everything possible to get the team prepared. It was "their" team. To accept the position meant accepting the conditions under which the meet would be contested and working within that system. Sure it would have taken a monumental effort on their parts but if that's what it took, so be it. One can't simply say, "Well, it's not an ideal situation for us so let's just go to the meet, get blasted and come home." Imagine an NFL coach, beset by numerous injuries to key personnel, throwing in the towel and saying, "This is a tough situation so we'll just quit trying and wait until next year." As a coach you accept the conditions and do everything in your power to be successful.
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
Ed's numbers do not tell the true story. Among youth sports track is still among the top, and that has never changed. The change comes post HS because of dollars, and American societal pressure to pursue perceived success in the classroom. I say perceived because many athletes succeed in their given sports, in various capacities(?). Which would return us to a previous discussion about sports as a major. It is rare to find a football player who has not run track during his HS career including Jr Olympics, AAU, etc. Our junior program is well and alive, the challenge is keeping the athletes in the sport and out of football. But how do you fight a sport that drafts HS players, and keeps them in their farm system for 10 years. How do you combat a sport that physically depletes its athletes. Track in the US is healthy, and I wish many would stop complaining about what is not and start realizing, and using what is. We still dominate the sprints, and we still need to improve our distance corps. The field events need assistance, but I see it all as a cycle. The junior level may be a vehicle that needs to be looked into, but it is not missed. The collegiate season is irreplaceable. DGS The G.O.A.T.
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/24/00 8:53:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The US has a strong high school and collegiate tradition which in many ways replicates the benefits of junior international competition in Europe. Bearing this in mind, I am very surprised by the contemptuous dismissal of world junior titles by certain US list members. But perhaps I should not be surprised. It's clear that those same list members consider the US to be an extraordinary and unique case as regards every issue raised, from drugs to popularity to behaviour to youngsters, with nothing to learn from the way this global sport is successfully managed beyond the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines. This "contemptuous attitude" is one of the reasons the US has continued to slip in the international arena. Our showing in Sydney was the worst in recent memory. I think it quite extraordinary that an island nation, blessed (?) with some of the worst conditions for sprinting to be found on the earth and a comparatively small talent pool can compete so successfully at this level.
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
I think these suggestions address the issue of "elite" high school juniors fairly well, but are such a small piece of the overall development picture that they won't accomplish much. As one who's deeply involved with the Jr athletes let me offer a few suggestions; 1) There should be 3-4 touring teams during the summer rather than one that goes to the World/Pan Am competition. Sounds OK, but largely irrelevent to the problem of development. This suggestion only addresses a tiny fraction of the athletes. 2) USATF should provide some financial support to local major meets so our best kids can get to meets where they'll meet superior competition. Since USATF can't play much of a role over the summer months, invest in those meets that do provide our kids with superior competitive opportunities. If we're talking high school meets, perhaps this makes sense. But where is this money supposed to come from? A huge majority of those high school coaches who need to work on developing the athletes are not willing to pay their $15 to be members or even have anything to do with USATF. If every high school coach became a USATF member and USATF put $5 for each coach towards meets, then you'd have some decent support But I'll give a similar argument to my first one - high level high school meets are not what the sport needs to grow. Pervasive participation (not necessarily competitive) opportunities at ages much younger than high school are what are needed. 3) It's imperative the college coaches who head up ALL the competition committees become more involved with the Elite high school kids. NCAA rules will prohibit much of this type thing but if more HS coaches were brought into the committees, they could do a lot more than a collegiate mentor is permitted. I agree. Similarly, high school and NCAA coaches MUST get involved with USATF at the local level - at this point approximately 99% of them don't. (NOTE: To go anywhere within USATF it's imperative a person attend the USATF convention. Absolutely untrue unless you are talking about junior athletes who are the top 10-15 in the country. The USATF convention is much less important than getting involved at the local level. A group of 5 or 6 motivated coaches could essentially take over most USATF associations in the country if they wanted to get involved. But whether it's lack of knowledge or more commonly the bad reputation of USATF, they don't get involved, creating a self-fulfilling prophesy. 5) Recognize the fact that without a constant source of new faces coming into the international picture, the downward slide of the US is bound to continue. Investing in the future of this nation's international future is money well-spent. Absolutely. It sounds like we disagree on where the junior focus needs to be but we agree that the focus needs to be on juniors. 6) The USOC must take on part of this burden. This organization has infinitely more money than USATF but spends it quite sparingly. If they put $1,000,000 into the Jr program all of the aforementioned items I've mentioned could be accomplished. You say, "That's a lot of money!" My reply, "We're talking about the future of our sport. $1,000,000 is chump change." No question that the USOC has unequivocally abdicated their responsibility. Several of the potential USATF presidential candidates have made extracing more money form them a priority. I personally can not see it happening because there is no "stick" to force them to change the way they've always operated. - Ed Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
In a message dated 10/24/00 12:39:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As a US list member who would rather watch the international competition in all but the sprints, favors the US qualifying system (Olys), considers the US to be just as guilty of drug use as anyone, and feels certain US athletes acted like immature idiots in Sydney, let me just say, "Junior World Championships? What the heck is that???" Ok, so I'm being somewhat sarcastic, but I agree entirely with those who have said it's a virtually meaningless event in this country. Why does that need to come across as an excuse? Explanations and excuses are two entirely different things. So what if the US had a poor showing? Few people here are losing sleep over it. Only those who recognize our country is continuing to slip at the international level. Sydney was our worst showing in re medal count in years. The lack of a good feeder system is partly to blame. It's interesting to note that many of our athletes who did well in Australia also performed well as Jr athletes, Marion Jones, Monique Hennagan, Latasha Colander, Stember, Jennings, etc. Were it not for the competitive opportunities they got from meets such as the Golden West, golden South, Foot Locker Nat'ls and the USATF Nat'l Jrs + the ensuing international opportunities, we'd have done far less than we did. The rest of the world is getting better, but I don't recall seeing any signs that the US is getting worse. Have I missed something, You missed a lot. Didn't you look closely at the performances of our team in Sydney? Are you interested only in the 100, 200, 400 (Men only) and the two relays? Sure the three M's performed magnificently, so did Hysong and Dragila - but a total of 20 (I think) medals from the United States of America and you can say with any degree of seriousness, "I don't recall seeing any signs that the US is getting worse." You missed a lot. aside from a few key injuries (such as MJ and AJ)? L-F won Juniors; good for him. The top US folks didn't attend; good for them. Let people pursue their own interests/priorities, the US team will still field a strong squad when the time comes. By the way, what's up with the prediction 40 years ago that the lack of a junior program would spell the doom of the US team?! I'd love to see that one charted out...40 yrs ago, 1960. We turned out some of the greatest teams ever. I had the great fortune of being involved with the '68 team, perhaps our greatest ever. The US dominated the international stage. We not only won events, we swept them! 1-2-3 and quite often. At that point in time our college coaches didn't rush abroad to recruit, they worked with American kids and thus provided a "junior" program. But that's changed and now, more than ever, we are desperately in need of a strong Jr program. If my tone was less than it should have been I apologize, no rancor was intended.
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
At 06:17 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: At 04:28 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: I must disagree with Conway's assertion that we have a good junior program and it is the NCAA and JUCO programs. By the time they get to be 18 years old it is way too late to really develop the sport. Some sort of widespread programs need to start before age 10 so that kids are as exposed to opportunities to "play" track as they are to baseball or soccer. there is ...it is called the Hershey Program. You're joking, right? The Hershey program, the AAU juniors, the USATF junior olympics are all tiny compared to the programs in football, baseball,basketball,soccer and several others. That doesn't mean they are bad programs, just that they aren't accomplishing even 5% of the coverage that we need. Add to that the fact that all three groups in general believe they don't need the other two and you have a recipe for a muddled set of incomplete programs that cannot be called development. Not joking at all. They are good programs. But, as with all good ideas, the clubs and the schools have to pick them up. If assume that south of the border is similar to north of it. Many of the good, and great, coachs don't want to be seen working with young kids. It is below them. But everyone needs to develop a grass roots progam and it takes good coaches to work with this very importent age-group. If they did, probably similar to up here, they would accomplish much more than the 5%. Just my 2 cents Peter Stuart Head Coach South-East Athletics Head Coach NB Canada Games NB Coaching Chair Master Course Conductor
Re: t-and-f: Re: Embarassment
Netters, i have been following this with some interest. I have one question for you all? Are you saying (those that are being critical) that these kids did not compete well because they didn't get medals or because they didn't run well? The one walker sent Robyn Stevens, finshed 16th wit a PB. How many of these kids, "who didn't get the job done" because they did not medal mad PB's? Maybe one of the coaches on the list can posts this. Good Training, Michael Rohl
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
There's an obvious reason why college coaches can't be relied upon to develop a grass roots program. University assistant coaches probably have an average salary of $10,000 a year for a full-time job. You can barely live in Guatamala on that, much less the US. Most I've seen either have a second job or work track camps during the summer months so they can make some extra cash to survive. They don't have the time to coach up-and-coming kids. And if you're a university head coach, I doubt you spend your summer lounging around until the fall. Also, most high school track coaches are also assistant football coaches. Very few schools have coaches dedicated to one sport. Once track season is over (end of May for high schools), they have to begin working on the next sport which is usually football. If they don't switch gears, they're out of a job. s.devereaux peter stuart wrote: At 06:17 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: At 04:28 PM 10/24/00 -0400, you wrote: I must disagree with Conway's assertion that we have a good junior program and it is the NCAA and JUCO programs. By the time they get to be 18 years old it is way too late to really develop the sport. Some sort of widespread programs need to start before age 10 so that kids are as exposed to opportunities to "play" track as they are to baseball or soccer. there is ...it is called the Hershey Program. You're joking, right? The Hershey program, the AAU juniors, the USATF junior olympics are all tiny compared to the programs in football, baseball,basketball,soccer and several others. That doesn't mean they are bad programs, just that they aren't accomplishing even 5% of the coverage that we need. Add to that the fact that all three groups in general believe they don't need the other two and you have a recipe for a muddled set of incomplete programs that cannot be called development. Not joking at all. They are good programs. But, as with all good ideas, the clubs and the schools have to pick them up. If assume that south of the border is similar to north of it. Many of the good, and great, coachs don't want to be seen working with young kids. It is below them. But everyone needs to develop a grass roots progam and it takes good coaches to work with this very importent age-group. If they did, probably similar to up here, they would accomplish much more than the 5%. Just my 2 cents Peter Stuart Head Coach South-East Athletics Head Coach NB Canada Games NB Coaching Chair Master Course Conductor -- "I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't give a damn."
Re: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the men's side we had 2 Americans in both finals of the 100 and 200. I do not ever remember the US sweepine the sprints, and only on a few special occassions did we take 2 medals. The U.S. swept all three medals in '84 in the 200 as I remember. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck
Re: t-and-f: Embarassment
I still do not understand some of you guys and I probably won't. As a foreigner who benefited because of overseas recruiting, it is hard for me to understand how some list members can squarely put the blame of recent sub par performances (medal count) of the US national team on foreign athletes on scholarship. When I first came to the US (Fall 1991), I could not believe the lack of interest in Track and Field. I use to spend a great deal of time wondering why many people did not care about the sport. Then it struck me one day. US is the only country that has 3 major sports (Basketball, Football and Baseball) of equal prestige. For the rest of the world, its probably soccer leaving Athletics (Track and Field) as a 2nd or 3rd most favorite sport. Therefore, the bulk of the blame for talent drain, deprivation of talent development, and the subsequent lack of interest in the sport within the US should be place on the shoulders of the "BIG THREE SPORTS". It would be naive to say that the recruitment of foreign-born athletes does not factor into this equation. Nevertheless, I know that its contribution is not as great as some would like us to believe. I asked Coach Hayes (MTSU) about a week ago to comment on the sub par performance (medal count) of the US Track and Field team during the Olympics. His answer was simple; "The rest of the world is catching up". For every foreign born athlete who went through the NCAA system (last 5 years), I can point out 1 or 2 who have also made it big on the world scene without going through the NCAA system. If you are wondering where some of the missing medals went, ask the folks from Saudi Arabia. This country would not have been considered a medal threat in Athletics 3 yrs ago. Yet, they won a silver medal (400m hurdles) in Sydney. For those who were in Sydney, you may have noticed that even INDIA, had 2 women (A qualifiers) in the Heptathlon. There is more than enough potential and talent even within the so-called small number (I think its very large though) pool at both the high school and the college level. All that is missing is how to find ways to maximize this potential, giving the fact that the rest of the world is catching up, irrespective of the fact that there are foreign born athletes within the NCAA system. I know that quite a number of African athletes who would in the past have sought scholarships in the US, now have the choice of joining the Olympic Solidarity program. As a result, I believe that this is really making it harder for coaches to recruit the same caliber of foreign athletes that they use to get 5-6yrs ago, leading to, in terms of recruiting numbers, less foreign athletes. For those who have been paying more attention, you may have noticed the changes in NCAA eligibility requirements, over the past 7 yrs, has made it a little harder to find qualified foreign athletes. GUYS THE WORLD IS GETTING SMALLER AND OTHER LESSER COUNTRIES ARE SLOWLY CATCHING UP. AND SO WHETHER SOME LIKE IT OR NOT, UNITED STATES WILL PROBABLY FIND IT HARDER AND HARDER TO MATCH THE MEDAL COUNTS OF PAST GAMES EVEN IF RECRUITMENT OF FOREIGN ATHLETES STOP. My 3 cents
RE: t-and-f: Paralympians off fast in Sydney (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:47:45 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Paralympians off fast in Sydney greetings from Sidney Dwight and I are here to do the Paralympics track and field for wemedia.com...Please pass this message along if you will.we are on from 10 am to 1.30 pm and 5.pm to 9pm LIVE each day Sodney time--it's 7pm in NY when we start at 10 am each day...NOTHING in television will ever seem difficult again...What a challenge to try and keep the level of color commentary high for 9 days in a row 8 hours a day with the best athletes in the world who are blind, amputees,have cerebral palsy, wheelchair etcthere is some great things going on here ...the athletes are rewriting the record books...check it out if you get a moment...it's been very rewarding and exhausting to do this event...my best to all..Larry Rawson...
RE: t-and-f: Paralympians off fast in Sydney (fwd)
Sorry, Larry and Dwight, we've already had our fill of mawkish up-close and personals. malmo greetings from Sidney Dwight and I are here to do the Paralympics track and field for wemedia.com...Please pass this message along if you will.we are on from 10 am to 1.30 pm and 5.pm to 9pm LIVE each day Sodney time--it's 7pm in NY when we start at 10 am each day...NOTHING in television will ever seem difficult again...What a challenge to try and keep the level of color commentary high for 9 days in a row 8 hours a day with the best athletes in the world who are blind, amputees,have cerebral palsy, wheelchair etcthere is some great things going on here ...the athletes are rewriting the record books...check it out if you get a moment...it's been very rewarding and exhausting to do this event...my best to all..Larry Rawson...
Re: Mark Lewis-Francis (was: Re: t-and-f: Embarassment)
Wayne writes: On the men's side we had 2 Americans in both finals of the 100 and 200. I do not ever remember the US sweepine the sprints, and only on a few special occassions did we take 2 medals. The U.S. swept all three medals in '84 in the 200 as I remember. The US male sprinters scored Olympic sweeps of all three medals in: 100m - 1904 and 1912 200m - 1904, 1952, and 1984 400m - 1904, 1968, and 1988 The World Champs US sweeps are: 100m - 1983 and 1991. The US women have never scored a sprint sweep. Kurt Bray _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
