Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
It just goes to show that there are stupid people everywhere in the world! No one ethnicity, religion, group, etc. has a captive grip on it. It is everywhere Gerald
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
There is also a subset of drivers who will not cross the yellow line for any reason. I suspect that some of these people would blithely run over a person, dog, or tree just to make sure they don't edge into the wrong lane when there are no other cars in sight. Most of my road miles are in darkness, so I can't assess the demographics of this group. The above won't-cross-the-yellow-line-under-any-circumstances set of folks are a real problem. To me, they often seem to be either (A) seniors who came of age before the tumultuous 1960s/70s, and therefore don't know when rules SHOULD be broken :-) or (B) testosterone-fueled youngsters (and/or cranky prozac-deprived oldsters ;-) ) with a chip on their shoulder who want to scare you. In any event, I run into the yellow-line-phobic set enough that I've adopted a different strategy. I too run at night plus use reflective strips. When available, I always run on sidewalks assuming they're in good repair. However, otherwise what I do is run right down the centerline of the road until I see/hear a car coming. (Obviously these are residential side streets--I do all my running there just about; you obviously couldn't do this on busy main thoroughfares.) For oncoming cars I move clear over to the right side of the road (after checking that no cars are sneaking up behind me). For cars coming up behind (depends on good hearing and always keeping your ears peeled), I'll move over to the more normal left side of the road for pedestrians. This puts as much air space as possible between mortal flesh and smooth metal. Side benefit: Most of the time this way you aren't running on the slant of the road near the edge, which helps avoid overuse injuries due to ongoing torque to one leg. In my opinion, runners who too slavishly follow the pedestrians on the left rule are just asking to get hit one day. Even if it isn't a huge number, there are still too many rigid-minded rule-followers who simply won't move their cars over that imaginary yellow line for fear of what must be demerits in heaven or something. It is amazing to me to see runners where I live running on major thoroughfares with less than ample lane widths. A few true idiots (machoness, exhibitionism, or just sheer stupidity?) I have even seen doing this in packed rush hour traffic), facing traffic on the left, when cars have little room to move over even if they wanted to. (I hate to admit it, but sometimes I have even found myself wishing--well, not really :-) --they *would* get hit for such arrogance or stupidity.) The cars either have to choose between increasing their odds of a wreck by edging into the adjacent lane to their left, or else give the runner only 2-3 feet of breathing room. It ain't much and people sometimes make mistakes. Oops. Roadkill. :-P Herb
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
--- Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm invisible, I'm not a target. That theory didn't work too well for Frodo in Part 1... Dan John Lunn wrote: Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Frodo assumed too much protection from the Ring. Keeping with analogies, Frodo used the Ring as bright clothing. Therefore, as I stated in my post: I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Dan Kaplan wrote: --- Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm invisible, I'm not a target. That theory didn't work too well for Frodo in Part 1... Dan John Lunn wrote: Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Have a happy new year. JL Martin J. Dixon wrote: Have almost got in some fights because of the verbal and even physical abuse of the smokers who gather out in front of the 3 high schools in polite Brantford, Ontario, Canada that I run by periodically. How I react will usually depend on how hard I am working. It definitely isn't a regional thing. Right now, I'm in Ellicottville NY about an hour south of Buffalo and some of the locals are inbred rednecks and they have actually chased me with their vehicles. Regards, Martin ghill wrote: Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility?
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. gh From: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: @attbi.com Reply-To: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:13:14 -0600 To: Ed and Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Athletics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Yes, Garry, I think so. I recall it was about drivers hitting parked vehicles that had their lights on! It is because drivers have descended from primal hunters. I also recommend the prey run in camouflage. td -- From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) Date: Tue, Dec 31, 2002, 3:33 PM This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. gh From: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: @attbi.com Reply-To: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:13:14 -0600 To: Ed and Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Athletics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Unfortunately such routes are getting more difficult to find. And for those of us who run in the evening, it is even worse. I once lived in an area where I could safely do long runs at night with plenty of well lighted sidewalks and relatively safe streets. Now I live in a rapidly growing area where runners and bikers risk life and limb, children do not even walk to the nearby school, and the only sidewalks are in those highly restricted subdivisions. The primary design consideration for the community has been to maximize the profits of the developers. Hell, it's not even safe to walk anywhere in broad daylight, as drivers ignore posted speed limits and there are only narrow shoulders on the sides of the road. So I try to wear bright colors, stay alert, and attempt to minimize time on the more dangerous roads. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. I was once tooling along on a cold night and felt something hit me in the chest. I looked down and saw that I had been egged. I watched the auto which I thought had just passed me turn into a driveway and immediately confronted the driver. To my surprise, it was an elderly man and his wife! Since I didn't actually see the egg being thrown, all I could do was apologize and continue on. Our angry responses to driver aggression can sometimes get us into trouble. I fully expect to get shot by a drunk redneck one day while running and die just like Dennis Hopper at the end of Easy Rider. bob
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
From: Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:59:58 -0600 To: Track Listserve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) Our angry responses to driver aggression can sometimes get us into trouble. I fully expect to get shot by a drunk redneck one day while running and die just like Dennis Hopper at the end of Easy Rider. In defense of drunken rednecks everywhere, I'd also like to point out you could wind up blown away by a stoned hippie, just like Robert Blake at the end of Electra-Glide In Blue. :-) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
I stay away from country roads now,,I'd rather be verbally attacked, than attacked by coyotes..or dogsI got attacked by coyotes last February..got me a couple times and took 16 rabies shotsso, it's comforting to run where the traffic is...at least if it happens again..someone could help out.most of my mileage is done in early morning darkness..shocking..I had always heard they avoid human contact.no they don't. Nearly three decades of running and not a whole lot of people problems..I had envisioned back in the 70's putting together a secret society ..call it the Runners Defense League (RDL) (I know, I copied it) anyway, someone seriously harrasses a runner...we all go out at night and burn their homes down...thankfully that thought was just the effects of fatigue and adrenalin after one of the few times I was harrassed. - Original Message - From: John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Ed and Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED]; \\\Athletics\\\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
I've been playing in traffic now for nigh on 60,000 or so miles in the last 20 years. One of my one finger salutes a few years ago got the guy I was running with that day charged with some highway traffic offence. He had the misfortune of running in the outside lane. We had to assume the position just outside of the Y in Brantford and a bunch of our friends(mostly professionals of some sort or another) were going in and out of the front door while it was going on. Of course they didn't dare stop and ask. It made the national press in Canada but it was before I got on any lists. It was laughed out of court and the cop who laid the charge will probably never live it down and they will likely joke about it at his retirement roast. My friend's father proudly added the various articles, pro and con letters to the editor and a copy of the traffic ticket to a scrapbook that he has been keeping on his son since he was an age group national class swimmer. Regards, Martin John Lunn wrote: Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
From: Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:52:04 -0600 To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) Back in the early 70's I was running out in the country with a friend. We both looked a little ragged with our long hair and beards. So we ran by this old house which was close to the road and an old man was sitting on the porch. As we ran by he shook his fist and yelled at us get out of the road and get a job! reminds me of one of the great changes in society: in 1970 perhaps the greatest harassers of the freaks were construction workers, with their get a haircut refrain. Today it's tough to find a construction worker who isn't a scruffy long-haired freak, and the kids sport marine haircuts. Go figure! gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
--- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. It's common knowledge in mountain biking that if you look at the rock you're trying to avoid, you'll hit it regardless. The same holds true for most anything: Look at it and you will unintentionally veer that direction. In the case of runners on the side of the road (I agree with Kurt Bray's assessment), we really are a novelty to much of the population. As such, it's only natural that people will look over and veer toward said runners whether or not they mean harm. I would also add that I've received all sorts of heckling and profanities pretty much everywhere I've run, with the major exception being Vancouver, B.C. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
I never knew how good I had it here in the Bay Area until reading this thread! Been running since the early 70s, and can count on one hand (okay, maybe two) the amount of times I've been even heckled at. The worst incident I can recall is a group of kids puddle-splashing me with their car. Certainly, in my high school days of group training, we dished out more than our share of abuse and hijinks to non-runners during our long and not-so-lonely training runs, so I consider myself way ahead on the abuse scale. I believe my two most recent hassles were both with mountain bikers acting like idiots (there's a whole 'NOTHER thread). I've had great adventures running abroad in India (leader of the kids parade) and Mexico, where I came upon a funeral procession out in the countryside, dressed only in shorts and shoes. Not wanting to offend, but also not wanting to cut short my run, I weighed the options, plunged ahead, and was immediately mocked by one member of the funeral, which caused great laughter in the group. As he and I got around the corner (he was mimicking my running) he then asked me if I wanted to buy some mota! I didn't feel so embarrassed passing the group on my way back... Happy New Years to all-- Brian McGuire - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) --- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. It's common knowledge in mountain biking that if you look at the rock you're trying to avoid, you'll hit it regardless. The same holds true for most anything: Look at it and you will unintentionally veer that direction. In the case of runners on the side of the road (I agree with Kurt Bray's assessment), we really are a novelty to much of the population. As such, it's only natural that people will look over and veer toward said runners whether or not they mean harm. I would also add that I've received all sorts of heckling and profanities pretty much everywhere I've run, with the major exception being Vancouver, B.C. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
If I'm invisible, I'm not a target. John Lunn wrote: Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
on 12/31/02 3:33 PM, ghill at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. gh Could be, but last week I had a driver swerve AWAY from me half a lane, putting his wheels right on the line of slush down the middle of the lane, and creating a wave of water and dirty snow that nailed me before I was a mile into my run. I'm sure it was funny to watch. -- Jim Gerweck Runnng Times
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
On a more sober note, my daughter grew up as a runner and regularly endured attacks, such as the occasional beer bottle, firecracker or cherry bomb. Just two years ago as an adult, she was attacked my a man while running in a park in Los Angeles. Despite being an experienced runner, she was wearing headphones and the guy was able to sneak up on her. Fortunately, she escaped and with the assistance of a passing motorist, the culprit was arrested. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses to the actual attack. My daughter went to court on it but the judge let the attacker go free for lack of evidence. I think maybe we should refer this one to the Runners Defense League. And then maybe move to Vancouver (must be something in the water up there). bob
a tangent to Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Does anybody else ever feel like they're being pulled to the side of a bridge when they're running across one? I don't know if it's my paranoia/fear of heights, latent suicidal tendencies or some other effect. The only other person I ever brought it up with said he felt the same way. Jorma - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. It's common knowledge in mountain biking that if you look at the rock you're trying to avoid, you'll hit it regardless. The same holds true for most anything: Look at it and you will unintentionally veer that direction. In the case of runners on the side of the road (I agree with Kurt Bray's assessment), we really are a novelty to much of the population. As such, it's only natural that people will look over and veer toward said runners whether or not they mean harm. I would also add that I've received all sorts of heckling and profanities pretty much everywhere I've run, with the major exception being Vancouver, B.C. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: a tangent to Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Wait Gar, one more ... My mom is scared of heights and she says she feels like she is being pulled to the side when on a bridge. Twenty-something years ago, I student taught drivers ed. in college (sometimes on country roads:) I had a professor who harped all the time reminding us student teachers to harp on the student driver not to look at the on coming car or a parked car because of a tendency to steer towards what was being looked at. This was particularly an issue for new/inexperienced drivers. And, on New Years Eve at 9:30 p.m. Chicago time, 20-something years ago I would have already taught a few pints a lesson or two. But, instead, to night I am home with my wife and three sons (12, 10, and 8) making homemade pizza - but there are a couple of pints in the fridge post marked from Ireland with my name on them. Happy New Years and pray for peace Jorma Kurry wrote: Does anybody else ever feel like they're being pulled to the side of a bridge when they're running across one? I don't know if it's my paranoia/fear of heights, latent suicidal tendencies or some other effect. The only other person I ever brought it up with said he felt the same way. Jorma - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. It's common knowledge in mountain biking that if you look at the rock you're trying to avoid, you'll hit it regardless. The same holds true for most anything: Look at it and you will unintentionally veer that direction. In the case of runners on the side of the road (I agree with Kurt Bray's assessment), we really are a novelty to much of the population. As such, it's only natural that people will look over and veer toward said runners whether or not they mean harm. I would also add that I've received all sorts of heckling and profanities pretty much everywhere I've run, with the major exception being Vancouver, B.C. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
From: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:17:11 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: My favortie sport to pick on But why is it that most people hate running so much? it seems like the only people that run, or even respect the sport (besides 30+ year olds trying to get into shape) are other track and field people or former tfers. everybody else HATES track and field. How many times have i heard 70 miles in a week??? i don't even drive that far. i seriously doubt that one. On Christmas Eve I was doing a hill workout where i ran by a group of kids 8 times. They yelled stuff at me every time i ran by. On the last repeat a middle aged woman screamed something too. What is the deal? If i were walking down the street with a basketball this wouldnt have happened. I could understand if I were wearing short shorts or tights, but i was wearing normal running pants, a long sleeve, hat and gloves. The kids, who were really creative, alternated between chants of run forrest run and faggot. The only positive from all this was hearing 4 or 5 eight year olds yelling. They sounded like little girls yelling at me. pretty funny. Sciatica has kept me from running for 20-odd years, but in all the years of roadwork that I did, I don't recall ever once having anybody yell at me. Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility? (although I'm not sure run forrest run isn't meant in good taste) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Have almost got in some fights because of the verbal and even physical abuse of the smokers who gather out in front of the 3 high schools in polite Brantford, Ontario, Canada that I run by periodically. How I react will usually depend on how hard I am working. It definitely isn't a regional thing. Right now, I'm in Ellicottville NY about an hour south of Buffalo and some of the locals are inbred rednecks and they have actually chased me with their vehicles. Regards, Martin ghill wrote: Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility?
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
It happened to me all the time when I lived in Connecticut and it happens to me in Folsom, CA as well. I will say that in 1993 when I lived in Saratoga, CA and ran there and Palo Alto and Los Altos I never once got yelled at. I suspect that's the exception, not the rule. I've heard from people who live in the south that it can occasionally even get dangerous with cars actively trying to drive as close to runners as they can while screaiming at them. It's mostly younger kids, although there's also the standard 16-22 year old a-hole in the car who creeps up behind you and honks their horn at full steam when they are right next to you. The run forest run was more common 5 or 6 years ago and my experience is that it is meant in the same vein as go faggot. It's generally not meant to be threatening - just making fun of runners. Of course, now that I'm primarily race walking, I hear it all the time, but I can't help but laugh - after all, I know how silly I look. I think that gh is accurate that the whole thing is further evidence of a breakdown in civility, but perhaps it's even more accurate to say that individuals are feeling less and less secure about themselves and compensate by making fun of others in far more stupid ways than past generations did. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 4:23 PM Subject: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) From: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nad wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:17:11 + To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: My favortie sport to pick on But why is it that most people hate running so much? it seems like the only people that run, or even respect the sport (besides 30+ year olds trying to get into shape) are other track and field people or former tfers. everybody else HATES track and field. How many times have i heard 70 miles in a week??? i don't even drive that far. i seriously doubt that one. On Christmas Eve I was doing a hill workout where i ran by a group of kids 8 times. They yelled stuff at me every time i ran by. On the last repeat a middle aged woman screamed something too. What is the deal? If i were walking down the street with a basketball this wouldnt have happened. I could understand if I were wearing short shorts or tights, but i was wearing normal running pants, a long sleeve, hat and gloves. The kids, who were really creative, alternated between chants of run forrest run and faggot. The only positive from all this was hearing 4 or 5 eight year olds yelling. They sounded like little girls yelling at me. pretty funny. Sciatica has kept me from running for 20-odd years, but in all the years of roadwork that I did, I don't recall ever once having anybody yell at me. Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility? (although I'm not sure run forrest run isn't meant in good taste) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
A regional thing? GH you must have doen all of your training at night. What Dan has described is word for word the dialogue that I hear many times a month and have tolerated for over 20 years now. It is worse now than ever and worse in suburbs than in the seediest parts of innercities. The most valuable lesson I have learned from this sport is patience; Nearly every aspect of this sport requires it. platter In a message dated 12/30/2002 4:23:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sciatica has kept me from running for 20-odd years, but in all the years of roadwork that I did, I don't recall ever once having anybody yell at me. Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility? (although I'm not sure run forrest run isn't meant in good taste) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
A regional thing? GH you must have done all of your training at night. What Dan has described is word for word the dialogue that I hear many times a month and have tolerated for over 20 years now. It is worse now than ever and worse in suburbs than in the seediest parts of innercities. The most valuable lesson I have learned from this sport is patience; Nearly every aspect of this sport requires it. platter In a message dated 12/30/2002 4:23:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sciatica has kept me from running for 20-odd years, but in all the years of roadwork that I did, I don't recall ever once having anybody yell at me. Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility? (although I'm not sure run forrest run isn't meant in good taste) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
I used to yell at a runner when I was a child in the 1950s. Everyday this guy who held his hands funny like a squirrel used run by our street in Milford, Massachusetts the town next to Hopkinton where the marathon starts. We yelled, short-shorts at him and taunted, Who wears short shorts-you wear short-shorts. He seemed to take no notice. Many years later when I became a runner I met him (he had beautiful teenage daughters after whom I lusted in my teenage heart). I never mentioned having ever been a kid. But I did sort of make it up to him by listing him in my Boston Marathon book as having finished 18th in 1960 in 2:43:15 and 24th in 1963 in 2:42:39. In 1970 at the line in Boston he told me that This is your kind of day. as a 33°F rain fell. I believed him so I ran my fastest time, 2:29:57. At later races I headr him saying exactly the same thing to many other guys. His name is Stanley C. Tiernan. So there. I confess. Tom Derderian, former obnoxious little kid. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...) Date: Mon, Dec 30, 2002, 6:12 PM A regional thing? GH you must have done all of your training at night. What Dan has described is word for word the dialogue that I hear many times a month and have tolerated for over 20 years now. It is worse now than ever and worse in suburbs than in the seediest parts of innercities. The most valuable lesson I have learned from this sport is patience; Nearly every aspect of this sport requires it. platter In a message dated 12/30/2002 4:23:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sciatica has kept me from running for 20-odd years, but in all the years of roadwork that I did, I don't recall ever once having anybody yell at me. Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility? (although I'm not sure run forrest run isn't meant in good taste) gh
