Re: [Talk-de] probleme mit den XAPI's
Am Di 10 Apr 2012 11:29:49 CEST schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 10.04.2012 11:04, schrieb Chris66: overpass API kennst Du noch nicht? snip gehört ja, aber noch nicht mit auseinander gesetzt. Habe ein Tool ansonsten das eine Liste für die Auswertung abarbeitet und da sind die Links noch etwas anders. Aus Zeitgründen habe ich das dort noch nicht mit integriert - deshalb wärde ich noch gerne auf die XAPI zugreifen. Die Overpass-API hat auch eine XAPI-Kompatibilitätsschicht: http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi? Ich habe damit ganz gute Erfahrungen gemacht. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste aller hessischen Schulen verfügbar
Am 24.03.2012 19:00, schrieb fschmidt: Am 24.03.2012 18:18, schrieb Christoph Böhme: Aus dem Bauch heraus würde ich vorschlagen, für Tanz-, Tauch-, Fahrschulen und ähnliche amenity=school zu verwenden und die offiziellen Bildungseinrichtungen eines Landes als education=school zu taggen. Das widerspricht natürlich dem momentanen Taggingansatz und Bedarf wohl erstmal eines Proposals:-) Bitte nicht schon wieder, das haben wir jetzt schon so oft durchgekaut. (Das wird ja langsam zum Running Gag hier) Oh, da lese ich wohl noch nicht lange genug auf talk-de mit, um bereits darüber gestolpert zu sein. Wie du richtig schreibst, sind Tanzschulen, Fahrschulen, Flugschulen, Baumschulen etc. Gewerbebetriebe und keine Bildungseinrichtung. Und den seit Jahren etablerten Tag amenity=school werden wir bestimmt nicht umdefinieren. Keine Sorge, mir ist schon klar, dass Tagging Schemas nicht am grünen Tisch definiert werden, sondern aus den Daten erwachsen. Darum war meine Aussage auch nur als Vorschlag zu verstehen, einfach education=school zu verwenden (zusätzlich zu amenity=school), um Bildungseinrichtungen auszuzeichnen. Wenn es einen Konsens dazu gibt, wird er sich dann schon irgendwann in den Daten zeigen. Beste Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste aller hessischen Schulen verfügbar
Hallo, Am 23.03.2012 23:58, schrieb Walter Nordmann: hi, danke für die daten - aber so richtig begeistert bin ich wirklich nicht. Es wird hier die gesammte derzeitige Struktur der Hessischen Schulen bis ins kleinste runtergebrochen. Dabei frage ich mich, was das mit osm als Geo-DB zu tun hat. Diese Frage kann man sich ja bei vielen Tags stellen. Gehören Farbe und Material von Parkbänken in eine Geo-DB? :-) Generell halte ich es aber für eine gute Idee, wenigstens allgemeine Informationen zur Art einer Schule zu erfassen. Damit kann bspw. Verwechslungen vorgebeugt werden, wenn Schulen in einer Stadt denselben Namen tragen und sich nur durch die Schulart unterscheiden (kommt durchaus vor!). Tags, die 99.% der Welt nicht braucht - dazu bestimmt auf hessische Bedürfnisse zugeschnitten. Ich habe mich bei der Auswahl der Tags von den in der Schulliste verfügbaren Informationen leiten lassen. Dabei ist es durchaus möglich, dass das Tagging-Schema etwas zu detailliert geworden ist. Da die meisten Bundesländer allerdings ein zwei- oder dreigliedriges Schulsystem haben, sollten die Angaben zur Schulart nicht zu spezifisch für Hessen sein, denke ich. Eventuell gibt es einzelne Schularten in anderen Bundesländern nicht oder es kommen dort Fälle wie die Stadtteilschule in Hamburg hinzu. Ausserdem möchte ich nicht wissen, was bei einer irgendwann mal kommenden Schulreform passieren soll. Dann können wir mit Hilfe der Dienststellennummer die Daten relativ einfach aktualisieren. ;-) Ich plädiere dafür, das Tagging erheblich zu vereinfachen und die doch sehr schulspezifischen Information beim Land zu lassen. Ein Link dürfte mit der Schulnummer (hier als ref=* abgelegt) relativ leicht möglich sein, wobei ich mit Doppelgängern bei mehreren Bundesländern rechne. Abgesehen von den Zusatztags ist das Taggingschema eigentlich recht einfach. Es gibt zehn verschiedene Schularten (Grundschule, Hauptschule, Realschule, Gymnasium, Gesamtschule, Berufsschule, Abendgymnasium, Abendrealschule, Berufskolleg und Förderschule). Je nachdem welche Schularten an einer Schule angeboten werden, enthält des school:de-Tag unterschiedliche Kombinationen dieser zehn Schularten. Die Detailtags zu Orientierungsstufe, Gesamtschule und Förderschule habe ich nur übernommen, da die entsprechenden Informationen in den Schuldaten verfügbar war. Ich hätte auch nichts dagegen, sie rauszulassen, wenn niemand sie für nützlich erachtet. Da man ja in der Tat weitere Informationen einfach über die Referenz abfragen kann. Die ISCED-Einordnung ist nicht in den Schuldaten enthalten gewesen, sondern von mir basierend auf der Schulart hinzugefügt worden. Das isced:level-Tag wurde im Februar als Möglichkeit zum international einheitlichen Tagging von Schulen vorgeschlagen. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste aller hessischen Schulen verfügbar
Hallo, Am 24.03.2012 08:19, schrieb ssho...@gmx.de: Tags, die 99.% der Welt nicht braucht - dazu bestimmt auf hessische Bedürfnisse zugeschnitten. Ausserdem möchte ich nicht wissen, was bei einer irgendwann mal kommenden Schulreform passieren soll. Sehe ich auch so. Und womit ich überhaupt nicht einverstanden bin, sind die Begründungen, weshalb die Tags auf Deutsch sind: Tags sind grundsätzlich in englisch zu halten! Ich halte es auch für sehr sinnvoll, englischsprachige Tags zu verwenden. Schon allein um beim Kartenrendering oder einer anderen Datenverwertung nicht hunderte Sprachvarianten unterscheiden zu müssen. Aus diesem Grund habe ich auch das isced:level-Tag mit in die Daten aufgenommen, da es damit möglich wird, Schulen international einheitlich zu klassifizieren. Die UNESCO hat für viele Länder Tabellen veröffentlicht, die die länderspezifischen Schularten auf die ISCED-Klassifikation abbilden [1]. Die ISCED-Klassifikation bildet allerdings die Mehrgliedrigkeit des deutschen Schulsystems nicht ab. Haupt-, Real- und Mittelstufe des Gymnasiums fallen bspw. alle in die Klasse 2A. Möchte man eine genauere Differenzierung der Schulen im deutschen Schulsystem vornehmen, sind daher zusätzliche Tags nötig. Diese Tags sind dann natürlich nicht weltweit einsetzbar, sondern spezifisch für die deutsche Schullandschaft. Es geht schließlich gerade darum, die Varianten im Schulsystem eines Landes zu beschreiben, die eine internationale Schulklassifikation wie ISCED nicht abdecken kann. Beim Ausdenken der Tags für die hessischen Schulen habe ich mich daran erinnert, dass es in der Frühzeit von OSM die Idee gab, dass jedes Land eigene landessprachliche Tagnamen verwenden könnte, die von den jeweiligen Mappern verstanden werden und die landestypische Besonderheiten korrekt beschreiben. Da es sich bei den Schulen um länderspezische Eigenarten handelt, für die in anderen Ländern nicht immer eine sprachliche Entsprechung gibt, habe ich die Idee der landessprachlichen Tagnamen für die Schulen wieder aufgegriffen. Eine Comprehensive School ist halt nur in etwa dasselbe wie ein Gesamtschule, College bedeutet in jedem Land etwas anderes und für eine Hauptschule gibt es überhaupt keine richtige Entsprechung. Warum sollen sich Mapper mit mehr schlecht als recht passenden Übersetzungen abmühen, wenn sie eine Realschule einfach und genau als Realschule taggen können? Diese Information ergibt ohnehin nur innerhalb Deutschlands Sinn, wenn man grundlegende Kenntnisse über das Schulsystem hat. Was ist, wenn irgendwo auf der Welt jemand ist, der kein Deutsch spricht aber dennoch Wissen beitragen kann? Ich denke, ohne Deutschkenntnisse dürfte es generell schwierig werden, Details zu deutschen Schularten zu taggen ;-) Weiterhin ist es auch möglich, das bestimmt Daten auch in anderen Ländern gültig sind, dann haben wir zwei Tags mit der gleichen Bedeutung in zwei verschiedenen Sprachen. Das stimmt natürlich, aber die Idee des school:de-Tags ist es ja gerade die deutschen Besonderheiten zu erfassen. Für allgemeingültige Dinge gibt es ja das isced:level-Tag. Bitte setzte über den Wikipedia-Artikel den gut sichtbaren Hinweis, dass diese Tags Vorschläge sind! Gute Idee, habe ich eingefügt. Ich plädiere dafür, das Tagging erheblich zu vereinfachen und die doch sehr schulspezifischen Information beim Land zu lassen. Ganz genau so sehe ich das auch. Es kann nicht sein, dass man sich erst in das Hessische Schulsystem einarbeiten muss, nur weil man ein paar Daten ändern möchte... Wie ich schon in meiner Antwort an Walter schrieb, sind einige Tags wohl zu detailliert. Das allgemeine Schema mit dem school:de-Tag und dem isced:level-Tag ist aber relativ einfach. Für die ISCED-Klassifikation könnte man noch die Abbildung der umgangssprachlichen Schulbezeichnungen in Deutschland (bzw. in einzelnen Bundesländern) auf die ISCED-Klassifikation im OSM-Wiki dokumentieren. Viele Grüße, Christoph [1] http://www.uis.unesco.org/Education/ISCEDMappings/Pages/default.aspx ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste aller hessischen Schulen verfügbar
Hallo Karsten, Am 23.03.2012 23:39, schrieb k4r573n: Danke das hilft mir doch sehr weiter. Denn ich habe vor in Braunschweig die Schulen zu erfassen und werde mich dann an deinen Tagging Schema orientieren. Sehr schön, das freut mich. bleibt noch zu überlegen was man mit Musikschulen, Sprachschulen, Internationale Schulen, Waldorfschulen, ... macht. Denke mal ein eigener school:de Eintrag wäre sinnvoll. Ich würde bei staatlich anerkannten Ersatzschulen wie den Waldorfschulen in school:de ganz normal den offiziellen Schultyp erfassen, also ob die Schule im Schulsystem offiziell bspw. als Grundschule, Realschule oder Gymnasium gilt. Das pädagogische Konzept der Schule würde ich in einem getrennten Tag erfassen, da es ja unabhängig von der offiziellen Schulart ist. Es gibt ja sowohl Waldorf-Grundschulen als auch Waldorf-Realschulen. Dieses Tag könnte dann auch wieder englische Bezeichnungen verwenden, da pädagogische Konzepte wie Montessori oder Waldorf ja in verschiedenen Ländern umgesetzt wurden. Das könnte man dann als education:philosophy=waldorf oder education:philosophy=montessori taggen. Was Tanzschulen und ähnliche Schulen anbelangt, bin ich mir auch unsicher, wie man sie taggen sollte. Diese Schulen sind ja eigentlich eher Freizeiteinrichtungen im Gegensatz zu den Schulen des offiziellen Schulsystems. Aus dem Bauch heraus würde ich vorschlagen, für Tanz-, Tauch-, Fahrschulen und ähnliche amenity=school zu verwenden und die offiziellen Bildungseinrichtungen eines Landes als education=school zu taggen. Das widerspricht natürlich dem momentanen Taggingansatz und Bedarf wohl erstmal eines Proposals :-) Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Liste aller hessischen Schulen verfügbar
Hallo, vor einiger Zeit habe ich das Amt für Lehrerbildung in Hessen mit der Frage kontaktiert, ob wir ihre Schuldatenbank [1] für OpenStreetMap nutzen könnten. Mein Gesprächspartner war sehr aufgeschlossen für die Idee und vor einer Woche habe ich nun eine Liste aller hessischen Schulen zur Nutzung in OpenStreetMap bekommen. Nach einer Diskussion im Februar hier auf der Liste bin ich von der Idee, die Schulliste direkt in die Datenbank zu importieren abgerückt und habe nun stattdessen OSM-Dateien ins Wiki gestellt [2]. Die Dateien enthalten jeweils Nodes für alle Schulen in einem bestimmten Postleitzahlengebiet. Neben dem Schulnamen enthalten die zur Verfügung gestellten Daten die Adresse der Schule und Angaben über die Schulart sowie eine eindeutige Dienststellennummer, die sich zur Referenzierung von Schulen eignet. Es wäre toll, wenn wir diese Daten in die OSM-Daten übernehmen könnten. Viele Grüße, Christoph [1] http://dms-schule.bildung.hessen.de/suchen/suche_schul_db.html [2] wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Hesse/Schools ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bedeutugsüberschneidung: lock=yes
Hallo, wäre es nicht sinnvoller die Hochsitze mit access=private zu taggen? Viele Grüße, Christoph - Ursprüngliche Mitteilung - Moin, mir ist gerade aufgefallen, dass es bei lock=yes Bedeutugsüberschneidungen gibt. Zum einen soll damit der Bereich einer Schleuse gekennzeichnet werden.[1] Zum anderen soll damit nach deutscher Wiki-Seite ein verschließbarer Hochsitz ausgeweisen werden.[2] DE:Howto_Map_A hat das dann für Hochsitze auch so übernommen. Lustigerweise wird lock=yes auch noch in der Mapnikkarte berücksichtigt. Mapnik meint vermutlich Schleusen. Wie sollen wir in diesem Fall jetzt weiter vorgehen? Gruß, Falk [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lock [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:amenity%3Dhunting_stand ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stolperstein-Relation in Frankfurt /M
Hallo Stephan, Am 15.03.2012 01:54, schrieb Stephan Wolff: Sammelrelationen fassen oft Objekte in politischen Grenzen zusammen. Kann man mit der Overpass-API auch alle Objekte mit X=Y im Kreis Z bekommen? Ja, das geht: Zuerst brauchst Du die id der Relation der Verwaltungsgrenze innerhalb derer Du die Stolpersteine (oder irgendwelche anderen Objekte) haben willst. Über die Overpass-API kann man die Id recht bequem in Erfahrung bringen: query type=relation has-kv k=name v=Lübeck / has-kv k=boundary v=administrative/ /query print mode=ids_only/ Für Lübeck erhalten wir damit die Id 27027. Um aus der Relations-Id eine Relations-Referenz für die Overpass-API zu machen, muss der Wert 3.600.000.000 hinzuaddiert werden. Die Relations-Referenz ist also 3600027027. Anschließend kann man in der Overpass-API eine area-query absetzen: area-query ref=3600027027 into=stadtgebiet / query type=node item set=stadtgebiet / has-kv k=memorial:type v=stolperstein / /query print mode=meta / Und schon hat man alle Stolpersteine in Lübeck. Fast so einfach, wie das Herunterladen einer Sammelrelation. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hessische Schuldatenbank
Am Mi 15 Feb 2012 18:47:22 CET schrieb Sven Geggus: Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Meine Idee zur Verwendung der Daten ist, sie automatisch als Nodes zu importieren, dabei aber so zu taggen, dass sie zunächst nicht auf der Karte auftauchen. Nein, bitte nicht! Schau mit Postgis oder ähnlichem nach ob im Umkreis bereits eine Schule mit diesem Namen existiert und importiere die Nodes bei denen das der Fall ist erst gar nicht. Keine Sorge, die Idee eines direkten Imports habe ich schon wieder verworfen. Über einen Abgleich mit bereits existierenden Schulen hatte ich auch nachgedacht. Da die Datenbank aber Informationen enthält, die so noch nicht in OSM sind, hätte man dann das Tagging der existierenden Schulen ergänzen müssen. Das würde ich nun aber wirklich nicht automatisch machen wollen, ohne zu verifizieren, dass man wirklich die richtige Schule gefunden hat. Aber wie gesagt, die Idee eines automatischen Imports ist ja bereits schon wieder verworfen. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hessische Schuldatenbank
Hallo Georg, das sind interessante Zahlen. Am 15.02.2012 19:44, schrieb Georg Verweyen: Hallo Christoph, in Hessen (basierend auf den heutigen Geofabrik-Abzug Hessen) existieren laut OSM * 2503 Objekte mit Tag amenity=school * 383 Objekte mit Tag amenity=university * 2 Objekte mit Tag amenity=pre_school * 1 Objekt mit Tag amenity=Grundschule Sommerseite (ist bereits korrigiert) * 1 Objekt mit Tag amenity=school_of_education (sehe ich mir später an) Die Schultypisierung ist relativ schlecht ausgebildet, leider gibt die Wiki-Seite auch keinen sinnvollen Hinweis für die englischen Begriffe (für obriges Objekt habe ich mal ein school=primary gesetzt), vielleicht kriegen wir über die Maillingliste eine vernünftigen Satz von Begrifflichkeiten zusammen. Über die Wikiseite zum Tagging von Schulen bin ich auch schon gestolpert. Ich finde die Verwendung englischer Begriffe zur Schulklassifizierung etwas problematisch, da nicht alle deutschen Schultypen eine englische Entsprechung haben und die englischen Begriffe in unterschiedlichen Ländern auch sehr unterschiedliche genutzt werden. Mit der Zusammenstellung eines Satzes von englischen Begriffen würden wir also eine Art abstrakte Schulgliederung schaffen, auf die die realen Schultypen verschiedener Länder dann abgebildet werden. Durch die Verwendung englischsprachiger Begriffe, würde der abstrakte Charakter allerdings nicht so recht deutlich werden. Lange Rede kurzer Sinn. Ich schlage vor, zwei Tags zu verwenden: eins, das eine recht genaue länderspezifische Typisierung der Schule enthält, und ein zweites, das den ISCED-Level (oder eine Abwandlung) der Schule beschreibt [1]. Diese Level werden von der UNESCO definiert und klassifizieren Schulen Bildungssystem übergreifend. Ein solches System wäre ähnlich den OSM-Adminlevels, denen einzelne Grenzen ja auch abhängig von ihrer relativen Bedeutung zugeordnet werden. Durch die Verwendung von zwei Tags ließen sich einerseits genaue Daten über ein einzelnes Land erfassen andererseits aber auch leicht ein globaler Überblick generieren. snip Ich kann anbieten, dass von genannten Geokoordinaten (siehe auch Anmerkung von Frederik) das nächstgelegene OSM-Objekt mit einem Tag amenity=school gesucht wird, sodass wir auch gleichen eine QS-Aussage haben. Das ist eine gute Idee. Ich werde mich melden, sobald ich die Daten habe. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Hessische Schuldatenbank
Hallo zusammen, das Amt für Lehrerbildung in Hessen pflegt eine Datenbank aller hessischen Schulen. Vor einigen Wochen fragte ich dort an, ob es möglich wäre, Daten aus dieser Datenbank in OpenStreetMap zu nutzen, um den Erfassungsgrad der Schulen zu verbessern. Meinem Ansprechpartner gefiel die Idee, und er wird mir in den nächsten Tagen einen Datenabzug zur Nutzung durch OSM zukommen lassen. Der Abzug wird etwa 2000 Schulen umfassen und die folgenden Informationen für jede Schule enthalten: - Name der Schule - Schultyp - Adresse - Koordinaten (nicht bei Zweigstellen) - Dienststellennummer (eine eindeutige Kennzeichnung jeder Schule, die auch nach einer Schulschließung nicht wiederverwendet wird. Also eine Art Persistent Identifier für Schulen) Meine Idee zur Verwendung der Daten ist, sie automatisch als Nodes zu importieren, dabei aber so zu taggen, dass sie zunächst nicht auf der Karte auftauchen. Das source-Tag wird natürlich auch entsprechend gesetzt, so dass die importierten Knoten leicht auffindbar sind und die Informationen dann auf existierende Schulen übertragen werden können oder zum Anlegen neuer Schulen genutzt werden können. Bevor ich den Import weiter forciere, würde ich gerne mit Euch diskutieren, ob mein vorgeschlagenes Vorgehen Zustimmung findet. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hessische Schuldatenbank
Am 15.02.2012 14:32, schrieb Ronnie Soak: Toll, danke fuer die Muehe! Vielen Dank! Duerfte ich einen Gegenvorschalg zum Import machen? Die Daten in Paeckchen zu je 50Stueck (oder 25?) aufteilen und ueber eine Wikiseite zum Download anbieten (.osm oder .gpx). Dahinter je eine Spalte fuer 'in Bearbeitung' und 'fertig'. Das ist eine gute Idee. Ich denke es ist aber sinnvoll, die Datensätze nach Orten oder Kreisen zu gruppieren, wie Frederik vorgeschlagen hat. Alternativ könnten die Schulen einfach nach Postleitzahlen zusammengefasst werden. Bei einem blinden Import liegen dann einzelne Knoten in der Datenbank, die unsauber getaggt sind (sonst wuerden sie ja gerendert werden) und keine Zuordnung zu den bestehenden Schulen haben. Es muessen also eh alle noch einmal per Hand kontrolliert werden. Stimmt. Meine Hoffnung war, dass diese Knoten, wenn sie erstmal in der Datenbank sind, auch von Mappern, die nichts von dem Import wissen, ins Auge fallen, wenn sie eine Schule erfassen wollen. Allerdings besteht in der Tat die Gefahr, dass sie sich einfach nur zu Datenleichen entwickeln. Viele Grüße, Christoph Da ist es besser, man macht das gleich beim Import, dann kann man wenigstens vernuenfig abhaken, was schon erledigt ist. Gruss Chaos99 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hessische Schuldatenbank
Am 15.02.2012 15:20, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hallo, On 02/15/12 14:32, Ronnie Soak wrote: Die Daten in Paeckchen zu je 50Stueck (oder 25?) aufteilen und ueber eine Wikiseite zum Download anbieten (.osm oder .gpx). Dahinter je eine Spalte fuer 'in Bearbeitung' und 'fertig'. Vielleicht auch regional - nach Kreisen oder so? Dann koennen sich die Leute besser aussuchen, was in ihrer Naehe ist. Ich denke auch, dass eine regionale Gruppierung besser ist. Ich bin auch auf jeden Fall fuer ein solches Vorgehen. Bei Importen kommt es darauf an, dass ein Mensch sich zustaendig fuehlt. Ich will, dass zumindest jeder einzelne Name von jeder einzelnen Schule einmal durch die Augen und das Hirn von irgendeinem, idealerweise ortsansaessigen, Mapper durchgeht, bevor das Ding in OSM landet. snip Nicht einer irgendwo in Frankfurt, der ein Skript geschrieben und einen Knopf gedrueckt hat. Das sehe ich ebenso. Daher mein Vorschlag einen blinden Import zu machen. Ronnies Vorschlag ist aber noch besser, da dadurch die Datenbank nicht so mit nur temporär relevanten Daten vermüllt wird. Es gibt noch etwas andres zu beachten, und zwar die Rechtesituation. Woher kommen denn die Koordinaten? Einige gewerbliche Anbieter haben da beim Geocoding naemlich Klauseln, die besagen, dass Du das Resultat des Geocodings nicht beliebig weitergeben darfst. Falls das Amt nun seine Schul-Adressen z.B. einfach komplett in eine Geocoding-Software gekippt und daraus Koordinaten gewonnen hat, dann sind die u.U. gar nicht berechtigt, uns die Koordinaten zu geben. Muss man ja auch nicht paepstlicher sein als der Papst (man kann sich auch auf den Standpunkt stellen: wenn das Amt uns zusichert, dass wir die Daten nehmen koennen, ist uns egal, ob die nachher Aerger mit ihrem Anbieter kriegen), aber zumindest koennte man ja mal vorsichtig fragen. Ich habe die Auskunft erhalten, dass die Koordinaten unproblematisch seien, da sie von einem Praktikanten manuell herausgesucht worden sind. Aufgrund dieser Aussage würde ich die Koordinaten als nutzbar einstufen. Wir könnten aber natürlich auch versuchen, die Adressen mit Hilfe von Nominatim erneut zu geokodieren. Selbst wenn die so generierten Positionen relativ ungenau sind, sollte es dann mit Ortskenntnis und Bing (Schulen mit ihren großen Gebäuden und Schulhöfen lassen sich ja ganz gut erkennen), eine genaue Positionierung vorzunehmen. Auf lange Sicht werden diese Knoten ja ohnehin durch Flächen ersetzt werden, vermute ich. Viele Grüße, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Sandwell Gritting routes
Hi all I've updated the gritting map [1]. The data was retrieved from the overpass api and is hopefully up to date. The map now covers the area between 2.275 and 1.378 west and 52.314 and 52.679 north. Let me know if there are areas which should have gritting routes but don't appear on the map. I wasn't following the progress closely enough to remember which councils made their data available already and what has been added to the map yet. For instance, I thought the gritting routes in Coventry were already in the database. Best Christoph [1] http://mappa-mercia.org/gritting-map.shtml Am 10.11.2011 12:36, schrieb Brian Prangle: Hi everyone We're making great progress with over half the routes now completed. Christoph will be re-rendering the gritting map this weekend so it would be good to see if we could complete this at the same time. There are still two routes unallocated - so grit your teeth and choose one ;-) It's also a good opportunity to do some tidying up of the road alignments and anything else you see along the route Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Radio WM
I recorded it: http://mappa-mercia.org/2010-12-23-BBC-WM-Gritting-Routes.mp3 It was very good indeed! Best, Christoph On 23/12/10 14:21, Andy Mabbett wrote: And very good it was, too! Anyone manage to record it? An MP3 would be quite handy. On 23 December 2010 12:43, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone If you can listen to BBC radio WM we're on again at 210-215 this afternoon Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Map fiddling
I created a list on the Mappa Mercia wiki page to log our resolutions for the discrepancies. The link is: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/OS_Locator_Bugs Cheers, Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) blackadder...@googlemail.com schrieb: Tom Hughes has just added the ITO World Locator tiles overlay to his map browser, which makes it a lot easier to browse around the region and find the difference between OSM and the OS OpenData StreetView. http://maps.compton.nu Just click the overlay at the bottom of the layers panel. Be warned though, not all difference are down to errors in OSM, but just difference in the way labels are done in the OS dataset. For instance, Birmingham and other LA's don't generally nowadays put apostrophes in street signs, but the OS data set often will have them for the same street. As always with OSM, stick to what's on the ground. If we record discrepancies on the Mappa-Mercia page on the wiki we can keep an eye out for differences that we know of and what a resurvey on the ground tells us. It also means we can revert easily if someone blindly uses the OS mapping as fact. You will find that the number of discrepancies in Birmingham isn't so great, they are infrequent and spaced about with just the odd one here and there in each locality. However slide yourself across the Black Country and it's a different story. Because a lot of mapping in the Black Country has been hit and miss to date there are lots of locations needing attention. Happy mapping Cheers Andy ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] WM Hack Day
Hi Ciarán, May 22 is the preliminary date, if I remember correctly. Christoph Ciarán Mooney general.moo...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi, There was talk on Saturday about a OSM hack day in Birmingham. Was there any preliminary dates for the event? I'm going to miss the London event, and have an idea I'd like to try out (making an OSM based A-Z). Ciarán ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Kidderminster
I'm done with my area. Looking forward to see a direct comparison of before and after! Best, Christoph Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi everyone Can you let me know when you've finished your edits so I can get an after map to go on the blog with the before map. So far it's lookinbg pretty good! Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] XAPI lagging behind by days?
Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net schrieb: On 23 March 2010 13:20, Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: Well, I just updated the Birmingham scheme two days ago to accept naptan:verified=yes, because Andy asked for it. Perhaps it makes sense to reorganise the schemes to have only one basic scheme which displays verification status, CUS and notes/errors and a number of specialised schemes building on top of the basic one for information that is not available everywhere like route references, shelter information and asset references. That sounds sensible. The basic scheme would presumably be enough for generalist mappers like me to be sure we're tidying NAPTAN up, without needing all the transport geek data I've never heard of? Yes, exactly. My current plan is to have four types of stops in the basic scheme: 1. Non-NaPTAN stops: Stops without naptan:*-tags. Basically plain old OSM bus stops. 2. Unverified NaPTAN stops: Stops from the NaPTAN import which have a naptan:verified=no tag or which are missing the highway=bus_stop tag. 3. Verified NaPTAN stops: Stops tagged as hightway=bus_stop and with either no naptan:verified tag or a naptan:verified=yes tag. 4. CUS-stops: Stops with naptan:BusStopType=CUS because they are not marked on the ground and cannot be verified. Extended schemes would be: 1. Stops with notes: Highlight stops with a note or naptan:error tag 2. Route information: Highlight stops which are missing the route_ref tag. 3. Shelter and asset refs: Highlight bus stops which have shelter=yes and no asset_ref or which have no shelter tag at all (this might be quite Birmingham specific). 4. Anything else? I suggest to keep the old schemes but rename them to the name of the public transport network they apply to (e.g. Transport West Midlands for Birmingham), since they are based on the amount of information that is available on the signs used by a particular network. Best, Christoph Best, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-transit] NaPTAN - Time for the rest?
Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net schrieb: 2010/3/16 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net schrieb: I recall a tool developed for the west midlands showing the state of the imported data, but can that be used nationwide? I reckon you are refering to NOVAM (http://mappa-mercia.org/novam)? The tool is working nationwide. However, the data it shows has not been updated since February, because the update process NOVAM uses is currently broken. I do not have much spare time at the moment but I will try to fix this at some point (hopefully soon). Lovely, thanks for the link and best of luck with finding that time :-) I found the time (or rather an easier solution to the problem): NOVAM now uses the XAPI servers to retrieve the bus stop data. So, it should be up-to-date again and hopefully in the future as well :-) The cycle map and regular chatter have seen coverage blossom. Obviously bus stops aren't as interesting to fellow OSM nutters as cycle routes; and the cycle map was an early mover and got onto the front page of the main web site. But can't we make a bit more of an effort to push this across the GB community? I have the feeling that one of the reasons for the relatively low interest in bus stops is that their use is quite limited without additional timetable information. I gave a talk on OSM to my local Tenants Association federation for Southwark (a municipal area in London). They absolutely loved the public transport map (www.öpnvkarte.de http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de) which has the bus stops along with bus/train/tube/DLR/tram routes. It's very similar to the cycle map, only most OSM mappers cycle everywhere whilst few find the public transport particularly useful. So limited to us, perhaps. Later this year if I get some time and I'm not elected in the local elections I intend to spend some more time with tenants helping them to put the data in since they find it handy. Public transport maps are of course very useful! However, I was more thinking in terms of developing other applications which use public transport data. Things like public transport routing or a map which highlights bus stops where a bus is due to arrive soon, for example. Most applications that come to my mind would require timetable information. Best, Christoph Best, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-transit] NaPTAN - Time for the rest?
Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net schrieb: I recall a tool developed for the west midlands showing the state of the imported data, but can that be used nationwide? I reckon you are refering to NOVAM (http://mappa-mercia.org/novam)? The tool is working nationwide. However, the data it shows has not been updated since February, because the update process NOVAM uses is currently broken. I do not have much spare time at the moment but I will try to fix this at some point (hopefully soon). The cycle map and regular chatter have seen coverage blossom. Obviously bus stops aren't as interesting to fellow OSM nutters as cycle routes; and the cycle map was an early mover and got onto the front page of the main web site. But can't we make a bit more of an effort to push this across the GB community? I have the feeling that one of the reasons for the relatively low interest in bus stops is that their use is quite limited without additional timetable information. Best, Christoph After cars and walking, public transport is the most used means of getting around ths country so I'd say it should be a fairly high priority to get that data right. Best wishes, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting Routes Solihull
Brian, I just completed a new render. We seem to have reached the edge of the area I am currently rendering. Next time I will render a slightly bigger area :-) Best, Christoph Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi everyone I've made a start on gritting route 1 (I'm tagging routes as gritting_route_ref = x). All Solihull routes are priority_1 (they only have one). Anyone want to help with other routes - there's 9 in total? Christoph we could probably do with a daily render again Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-transit] Fwd: Novam viewer
Thanks for the forwarded message, Shaun. The problem is that Novam is not using osmosis but a home-brewed python script to update its database. So, either need to update this script or (probably the better solution in the long-run) build an update process based on Osmosis. Cheers, Christoph Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk schrieb: Hi Christoph, I hope that this helps. If not, Brett is happy to help with getting Osmosis working with the newer diffs. Shaun Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Henderson br...@bretth.com Date: 17 January 2010 21:34:42 GMT To: Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Novam viewer Hi Shaun, Do they need any help? If they're currently using the --read-change-interval task to download updates it should be straightforward to switch to the --read-replication-interval task instead. Brett On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Another service that has just realised that they have diff update issues, just in case you are not on this list. Shaun Begin forwarded message: From: Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net Date: 17 January 2010 12:04:11 GMT To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics talk-transit@openstreetmap.org Cc: e...@loach.me.uk Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Novam viewer Reply-To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics talk-transit@openstreetmap.org Hi Ed, the updates used to be done from minutely diffs but since the old minutely-diffs have been replaced by the new replication diffs this is not working anymore. I only noticed this problem two days ago and have not yet decided how to fix it in NOVAM. At the moment updates are only done once a day. I will update the wiki page to explain this. Christoph Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk schrieb: I verified a number of bus stops yesterday and entered the information this morning. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3638396 The help for the Novam viewer suggests that it is updated from minutely diffs, but these changes were uploaded an hour ago and don't seem to show in Novam yet (though the moved bus stops are rendering in their new locations in the background layer). Is this a problem with the viewer or the diffs? Ah. I just scrolled down and see the bus stops were last updated at midnight this morning. Is that then just a mistake in the OSM wiki that I read when I followed the help link? Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Public Art
Hi Andy, I don't think there is an official tag for it yet but something like artwork= would probably be nice. A quick search on osmdoc.com (a website which shows which tags people use) showed to types of artwork tagging: http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/artwork/#values http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/artwork_type/#values IMHO the first form is is nice then artwork_type. Best, Christoph Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk schrieb: Hi folks, I'd like to start adding some public art - things like Iron:Man in Victoria Square. Such objects aren't memorials, so how should I tag them? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ** via webmail ** ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting Map
Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: snip Christoph - do we want to differentiate between Councils as to route colouring or just keep the standard you have set and add an operator= tag instead? The map will probably become very cluttered if we use different colouring for each council. I also do not think it is particularly important to know which council is gritting a route. Since the boundaries are on the map it is quite easy to find out without special colours if someone really wants to know. I am not sure if we need the operator= tag. We do not really need it as long as we assume that all streets within a city boundary are gritted by the respective city council. We can then simply query all gritting routes within a boundary polygon or checking in wich council a road is to find out. Cheers, Christoph Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting Map
Hi Brian (also forwarded to talk-west-midlands) I integrated the gritting map into the main Mappa Mercia website [1] so that visitors can find some more information about the project. The map has a map key and it now also shows grit bins (not that we have many in the database yet). Cheers, Christoph [1] http://mappa-mercia.org/gritting-map.shtml Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi Christoph Before we go public with your map it would be good to have a key as to what the colours represent - we all know what they mean but the public won't. BTW love your add-ons to josm Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting routes in Birmingham
No problem, I do daily renderings then. I'm just doing one at the moment so the new routes should appear in ten minutes or so. Best, Christoph Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Christoph We could probably do with a daily rendering if we're serious about completing this - we need one today as I've added a whole load more Regards Brian ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Josm style for gritting routes
Hi all, on http://mappa-mercia.org/bham-gritting/josm-style.xml you can find a simple style for josm which highlights routes with gritting priority. Simply add the url to the list of map paint styles (it hides on the third tab from top) in the josm preferences and restart josm. Now all routes with maintance=gritting and gritting=priority_X should be highlighted with a red or blue outline. Best, Christoph ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting routes in Birmingham
Nice idea. I will add the overlay to the main mappa-mercia website over the weekend. Lets hope for some more snow :-) Cheers, Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) ajrli...@googlemail.com schrieb: That would be the plan. It's still fresh in everyone's minds right now so I suspect the newspapers would pick up on it if we got it done in the next few days and that’s a real possibility. Might be nice to do something jointly with BCC too. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Jeni Sent: 14 January 2010 5:23 PM To: Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Gritting routes in Birmingham If we can get this to a point where it is more or less complete (for the area) before the next big freeze happens, there could be some good PR for OSM in the local area if someone were to issue a press release? Jeni Christoph Böhme wrote: Hi all, I created a map overlay showing the gritting routes (there are not many yet!) in Birmingham: http://mappa-mercia.org/bham-gritting/ The overlay works only from zoom layer 10-16. It is also not automatically updated. So, please drop me an email when you added new routes [1] and want them to appear on the map. Cheers, Christoph [1] Andy put a list of all routes up on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/BirminghamGrittingPriority ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Power Lines
I noted another problem with the powerlines from the 1:25k mapping. Even when the lines still exist the positions of the towers have often changed. So, we do not only need to verify the lines but all the towers as well :-) Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) blackadder...@googlemail.com schrieb: User tms13 has been adding a lot of features from the 1:25k mapping, power lines for example, without checking they still exist on the ground. I've sent the user a note but wanted to give the group the heads up as they will all need verifying. To save someone adding them again if they are deleted I would suggest they are tagged as former power lines so that they don't render but show up as ways in the editor. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-transit] Updating the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham
The update has been completed now. It's changeset 3194365 on the NaPTAN account. Cheers, Christoph Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: Hi, I plan to do an update of the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham to bring them in line with the imports in the rest of the country. The update will make the following changes: 1. All naptan:unverified=yes tags are changed to naptan:verified=no. This will make maintenance of the colour schemes in Novam easier. 2. naptan:unverified=no tags are removed. I think this makes more sense than replacing them with naptan:verified=yes. 3. naptan:AdministrativeAreaRef tags will be removed as they have only been used in the Birmingham import and nowhere else. So the tag is quite useless (tagwatch lists 105 as the only value for the tag). 4. naptan:Bearing tags will be added to all NaPTAN stops that do not have them yet (i.e. the stops in Birmingham). 5. naptan:BusStopType=CUS will be added when available and not yet existing. I am currently making the finishing touches on the import script and will test it then. So, if there are no objections against the changes the update should ready to go ahead in a couple of days. Method used for the update: I extracted atco-code, bearing, and bus stop type with an xsl script from the NaPTAN xml file for the West Midlands and placed the data into a new table in the Novam database. Since Novam maintains an up-to-date extract of all bus stops in OSM the bus stops which need be updated can easily be selected and joined with the new data in the table created before. Finally, a python script goes through the selected bus stops, applies the modifications outlined above to each them, and uploads them through the python osm api to OSM. If the upload fails due to a version conflict the latest version of the bus stop is retrieved from OSM and the script changes this node and uploads it again. The scripts are currently tailored to add and remove some tags from the Birmingham bus stops. However, I think this update might be a helpful step towards more complex updates of the NaPTAN data in OSM. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] [Talk-transit] Updating the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham
The update has been completed now. It's changeset 3194365 on the NaPTAN account. Cheers, Christoph Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: Hi, I plan to do an update of the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham to bring them in line with the imports in the rest of the country. The update will make the following changes: 1. All naptan:unverified=yes tags are changed to naptan:verified=no. This will make maintenance of the colour schemes in Novam easier. 2. naptan:unverified=no tags are removed. I think this makes more sense than replacing them with naptan:verified=yes. 3. naptan:AdministrativeAreaRef tags will be removed as they have only been used in the Birmingham import and nowhere else. So the tag is quite useless (tagwatch lists 105 as the only value for the tag). 4. naptan:Bearing tags will be added to all NaPTAN stops that do not have them yet (i.e. the stops in Birmingham). 5. naptan:BusStopType=CUS will be added when available and not yet existing. I am currently making the finishing touches on the import script and will test it then. So, if there are no objections against the changes the update should ready to go ahead in a couple of days. Method used for the update: I extracted atco-code, bearing, and bus stop type with an xsl script from the NaPTAN xml file for the West Midlands and placed the data into a new table in the Novam database. Since Novam maintains an up-to-date extract of all bus stops in OSM the bus stops which need be updated can easily be selected and joined with the new data in the table created before. Finally, a python script goes through the selected bus stops, applies the modifications outlined above to each them, and uploads them through the python osm api to OSM. If the upload fails due to a version conflict the latest version of the bus stop is retrieved from OSM and the script changes this node and uploads it again. The scripts are currently tailored to add and remove some tags from the Birmingham bus stops. However, I think this update might be a helpful step towards more complex updates of the NaPTAN data in OSM. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Updating the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham
Hi, I plan to do an update of the NaPTAN bus stops in Birmingham to bring them in line with the imports in the rest of the country. The update will make the following changes: 1. All naptan:unverified=yes tags are changed to naptan:verified=no. This will make maintenance of the colour schemes in Novam easier. 2. naptan:unverified=no tags are removed. I think this makes more sense than replacing them with naptan:verified=yes. 3. naptan:AdministrativeAreaRef tags will be removed as they have only been used in the Birmingham import and nowhere else. So the tag is quite useless (tagwatch lists 105 as the only value for the tag). 4. naptan:Bearing tags will be added to all NaPTAN stops that do not have them yet (i.e. the stops in Birmingham). 5. naptan:BusStopType=CUS will be added when available and not yet existing. I am currently making the finishing touches on the import script and will test it then. So, if there are no objections against the changes the update should ready to go ahead in a couple of days. Method used for the update: I extracted atco-code, bearing, and bus stop type with an xsl script from the NaPTAN xml file for the West Midlands and placed the data into a new table in the Novam database. Since Novam maintains an up-to-date extract of all bus stops in OSM the bus stops which need be updated can easily be selected and joined with the new data in the table created before. Finally, a python script goes through the selected bus stops, applies the modifications outlined above to each them, and uploads them through the python osm api to OSM. If the upload fails due to a version conflict the latest version of the bus stop is retrieved from OSM and the script changes this node and uploads it again. The scripts are currently tailored to add and remove some tags from the Birmingham bus stops. However, I think this update might be a helpful step towards more complex updates of the NaPTAN data in OSM. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-transit] Abbreviations in naptan:indicator
Hi, I am trying to make sense of the abbrevations used in the naptan:indicator tag. adj and opp are clear but I cannot work out what bey and bef are supposed to mean. Thank you, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Real-Time Bus Map
Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com schrieb: http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2009/10/real-time-bus-map.html Is this possible with OpenStreetMap? I would like to make Real Time Bus Map for my home town. We have created bus and tram relation tracks and this would be the next step, if possible. Technically it is easily possible: All stops imported during the NaPTAN import have a tag called naptan:NaptanCode. This tag can be used to request real-time information (e.g. via text messages). In the West Midlands area this information can also be accessed via http://netwm.mobi/. So, theoretically you could simple display an overlay with bus stops in OpenLayers (like Novam [1] does) and automatically query netwm.mobi when the user clicks on a stop and display the netwm's output in a popup. However, I reckon there are legal problems with this approach :-) Cheers, Christoph Cheers. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Real-Time Bus Map
Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com schrieb: On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:05:56 +, Christoph Böhme wrote: However, I reckon there are legal problems with this approach Is it possible to make it using only opnestreetmap data, so that it open and legal? The problem is that you need real-time data from the bus route operators to know where their busses are. Since this data is constantly changing Openstreetmap is -- in my opinion -- not the right place for it. It would also be handy to have the timetables in a database as well; I am not aware that anyone is adding timetables at the moment and again I would not use OSM for that. Nonetheless it would be really cool to produce such a map. Cheers, Christoph -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NOVAM is back
Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk schrieb: On 1 Nov 2009, at 20:40, Chris Morley wrote: Christoph Böhme wrote: And another update of NOVAM: This seems to be useful tool and I like the addition of the bearing symbols. But the current ones are equilateral triangles and three-way ambiguous. The meaning can be worked out after a bit of thought, but the reason for having them is to get the information at a glance. Maybe an ordinary arrow? Yeah, I'd agree with this as there were quite a few arrows that I misinterpreted, or thought were strange until I took a second glance. I was excepting this request. My first thought when I looked at a map covered with bearings was: using triangles wasn't a good idea. But since I just had spent an hour creating these icons I decided to leave them for now (perhaps no one would ask for a change ...). I will create better ones soon. Cheers, Christoph Shaun Chris PS I don't expect language pedants to be reading this list. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NOVAM is back
Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net schrieb: Christoph Böhme wrote: I've updated Novam. It now supports multiple colour schemes and also highlights errors in the tagging of stops. At the moment three colour schemes are defined: 1. The original Birmingham one 2. Chris Hill's colour scheme for Hull (with slightly different colours though) 3. Peter Miller's colour scheme which should work for most of the UK (please tell me if you rather not have the colour scheme named after you) These colour schemes should work but they might need some fine tuning. Additional colour schemes can easily be added. If you are interested in writing one have a look at [1]. The file lacks documentation but it should be clear from the three existing schemes how schemes are defined. Christoph [1] http://mappa-mercia.org/novam/scripts/Novam/Schemes.js Thanks Christoph, I like my eponymous scheme - it does just what I need it to do. Seeing the tags on a selected stop is particularly easy. I would like the colour of the purple and grey tags to be a bit more distinct. May I suggest that the stops with a note tag (currently purple) be changed to orange so they stand out? Grey and purple were indeed a bit similar. Orange looks much better. Cheers, Christoph Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NOVAM is back
Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net schrieb: Christoph Böhme wrote: Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net schrieb: Christoph Böhme wrote: I've updated Novam. It now supports multiple colour schemes and also highlights errors in the tagging of stops. At the moment three colour schemes are defined: 1. The original Birmingham one 2. Chris Hill's colour scheme for Hull (with slightly different colours though) 3. Peter Miller's colour scheme which should work for most of the UK (please tell me if you rather not have the colour scheme named after you) These colour schemes should work but they might need some fine tuning. Additional colour schemes can easily be added. If you are interested in writing one have a look at [1]. The file lacks documentation but it should be clear from the three existing schemes how schemes are defined. Christoph [1] http://mappa-mercia.org/novam/scripts/Novam/Schemes.js Thanks Christoph, I like my eponymous scheme - it does just what I need it to do. Seeing the tags on a selected stop is particularly easy. I would like the colour of the purple and grey tags to be a bit more distinct. May I suggest that the stops with a note tag (currently purple) be changed to orange so they stand out? Grey and purple were indeed a bit similar. Orange looks much better. Cheers, Christoph Errr, I think something has broken ... Upps, should work now. Forgot to test the latest changes in Firefox. Christoph The right hand panel is blank now and all the icons are grey. Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] [Spam] Re: NOVAM is back
I added the permalink and mapjumper is now working fine. It is a very
handy tool!
Cheers,
Christoph
Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com schrieb:
Peter Miller wrote:
I meant just the plain old OSM website from which one could use edit
if one wished. Having said that the MapJumper is possibly a better
way of achieving this (although I don't yet understand exactly how
it works).
First
===
The server must be recorded into the list of the wiki page :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:FrViPofm/mapJumper/MapJumperServers
(One rule, the service must be linked to the OSM project.)
I suggest something like :
{{MapJumperServer
| name = novam
| shortcut = n
| url = mappa-mercia.org/novam/
| layers = B0T
| desc = post-import NaPTAN
| theme = import,survey
| zone = UK
}}
I will not be there those days when the URL control and permalink
would be set.
So you ( Christoph ?) can hat this record.
The full url must be check. Cloudmade's like URL are supported by
adding | lon = lng
When the page is saved, the server is available in the mapJumper page.
Second
=
Install a bookmarklet in your browser
--
- Go to the mapJumper builder page :
http://frvipofm.net/osm/mapjumper/
- Chose a preset, make your choice...
The javascript code is set dynamicly in the yellow zone.
- Copy the code
- Create a new bookmark in your browser, give it a name (let us say
'mJ[survey]', you can have several mapJumper with different themes)
- Paste the code and save.
The mapJumper bookmarklet is available.
Third
Using the mapJumper bookmarklet
When you are on a map with a reguliar url (with
'lat=NNN[lon|lng]=NNNzoom=NNN')
- Select the mapJumper bookmarklet.
- In the dialog, enter the shortcut ( let us say : 'n' ), if you want
the map open in a new window, add a '+' sign. Enter.
Using the mapJumper hub
-
By default the mapJumper hub is available in the bookmarklet with the
'_' (underscore) shortcut.
With only one clic more, with the '_' shortcut, all the services are
near... Even those you didn't select...
When you are on a map with a reguliar url (with
'lat=NNN[lon|lng]=NNNzoom=NNN')
- Select the mapJumper bookmarklet.
- In the dialog, enter the '_' shortcut, if you want the map open in a
new window, add a '+' sign. Enter.
- On the hub page, select a theme, or select directly the service.
Fourth
=
Enjoy
---
--
Vincent alias FrViPofm
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Lug Radio Live - How about a mapping party??
Hi, have any plans been made for a Lug radio mapping party? I am free on Sat and would happily do some mapping in Wolverhampton. Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) ajrli...@googlemail.com schrieb: Lug radio Live is fast approaching, running on Sat 24th October. This would seem a logical date to do a mapping party. While the lug folks listen to lug stuff we can feed out and map, returning to spread the word at lunchtime etc. I'm due to talk about OSM at 15:00, not clear yet if they will have a proper exhibition but I'm sure we can ad hoc something as required. Who's available that weekend? Wolverhampton has much unloved area still to map. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-transit] open transit map?
Bin Jiang bin.ji...@hig.se schrieb: Hi, I wonder if any transit map is available like openstreetmap.org and opencyclemap.org. I tried opentransitmap.org without success:-) Try http://www.öpnvkarte.de/ Although, I am not sure how much of the world is covered. Cheers, Christoph Cheers. Bin -- Bin Jiang Division of Geomatics, KTH Research School Department of Technology and Built Environment University of Gävle, SE-801 76 Gävle, Sweden Phone: +46-26-64 8901Fax: +46-26-64 8828 Email: bin.ji...@hig.se Web: http://fromto.hig.se/~bjg/ European Associate Editor Computers, Environment and Urban Systems: An International Journal NordGISci: http://fromto.hig.se/~bjg/NordGISci/ ICA Commission: http://fromto.hig.se/~bjg/ica/ ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] NOVAM Viewer
Hi! Ciarán Mooney general.moo...@googlemail.com schrieb: I am trying to merge some bus stops on Penns Lane, Sutton Coldfield. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.53496lon=-1.81479zoom=15layers=B000FTF I have moved them all to the correct position. Some of them were spectacularly off, I was very surprised that the Naptan data was that bad! However on Xoff's little NOVAM viewer I can see they have changed colour to orange and they are incomplete, but I don't know why. What tags are they missing?? I can only see one orange stop which is missing the shelter tag. Did you manage to fix the other ones? The rules for the colouring of the bus stops are as follows: Bus stops should show up green if they have a highway-tag [1] AND a naptan:AtcoCode-tag AND NO naptan:unverified-tag AND NO naptan:verified=no AND a 'route_ref' tag AND a shelter tag. A stop is considered a plain naptan stop (blue) if it has NO highway-tag AND a naptan:AtcoCode-tag AND a naptan:unverified-tag OR a naptan:verified=no. Plain OSM stops (yellow) must have a highway-tag AND NO naptan:AtcoCode. And finally there is the concept of a physically not present stop (grey). This is a bit unfinished as we have not really decided what to do with these stops. At the moment a stop classifies as not physically present if it has NO highway-tag (to prevent it from showing up on the map) AND a naptan:atcoCode-tag AND a physically_present tag set to 'no'. All remaining stops are displayed as an orange stop. This is a bit of catch-all which does not actually display merged stops but everything that is not explicitely marked finished or *not* merged. We could do with some more documentation! And then starting to publicise it maybe? A number of people started using it (at least I am constantly receiving error reports when people try to use the not yet implemented functions). After talking to Brian last Thursday I have decided to not develop the actual merger any further as merging can easily be done with josm. Also, things like stop areas add lots of complexity to the merging process and it would be difficult to implement this all. So, I will concentrate on improving the viewer which seems to be very helpful. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Talk-gb-Thursday meet
Hi Andy, yes, it was a good meeting. The West Bromwich map has grown a fair bit despite a downpour during the mapping hour. But we were rewarded afterwards with a very good stout and tasty food in the pub. Brian suggested to have a small mapping party on a Saturday in October with a lunch break in the Wheatsheaf. Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) ajrli...@googlemail.com schrieb: Sorry I couldn't get over tonight. Hope it went well. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@googlemail.com] Sent: 03 September 2009 9:24 AM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: Christoph Böhme; Mike Duffy; talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Talk-gb-Thursday meet Hi everyone I'll tackle slices 1 2 and see you at 8ish Regards Brian 2009/9/1 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Hope to be there but may have to be in Berlin on Thursday. If I can't make it hope you have a good un. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- gb- westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Böhme Sent: 01 September 2009 10:21 PM To: Mike Duffy Cc: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Talk-gb-Thursday meet Mike, thanks for the suggestions. The Wheatsheaf looks nice and very well located with plenty of white space around it. I updated the Mappa Mercia page [1] with the details for the next social and added a cake. So, the next social will be in the Wheatsheaf in West Bromwich on September 3rd at 7pm (mapping) or 8ish (pub). Cheers, Christoph [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia#Next_Group_Meet- ups Mike Duffy mdbg02...@blueyonder.co.uk schrieb: Sorry, none of those pubs suitable, two closed, one with no food. But thirty yards on is the Wheatsheaf, serves hot food till eight o clock Mike Duffy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of talk-gb-westmidlands-requ...@openstreetmap.org Sent: 01 September 2009 16:41 To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-gb-westmidlands Digest, Vol 11, Issue 1 Send Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list submissions to talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-gb-westmidlands-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-gb-westmidlands-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-gb-westmidlands digest... ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org schrieb: snip (Does the Village on the map between Meopham, Sole Street, A2 and Southfleet and Sole Street have a name?) I recently created a map overlay with localities from the National Public Transport Gazetteer (part of the NaPTAN import). The NPTG data should have the name of the village. You can find the overlay on: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg-viewer/ Hope that helps! Christoph ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-transit] NPTG locality viewer
Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: The NPTG viewer and the Novam tools are not working at the moment because a server update went wrong. So, don't be surprised when you see a 500 - Internal Server Error. I'll try to sort it out tonight. The NPTG viewer and the Novam tools are working again. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NPTG locality viewer
Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk schrieb: Additionally to the old url the NPTG-Viewer can now be found on: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg-viewer/ I think the tool is handy to find places which are not yet mapped. It may also be helpful to spot spelling errors. There is one issue with genitives being spelled with apostrophes in NPTG but without in OSM (e.g. Kings Heath in Birmingham). That's perhaps because Birmingham banning apostrophes is fairly recent: http://is.gd/2kSAe (story at Metro.co.uk). Thanks for reminding me of this story. However, I think I never saw Kings Heath written as King's Heath since I live in Birmingham. But since both ways of spelling the locations are either correct or in common use, I am thinking of changing the name matching to ignore apostrophes for possessive 's. In case it helps anyone else, the tool doesn't seem to work for me on IE8 but does in Firefox. In both I can zoom in on say central Birmingham, but only in Firefox to letters on coloured backgrounds appear to allow me to select a locality. Sorry, I should have mentioned that the viewer is not working with IE8. I tried to get it to work in IE8 but I gave up after noticing that the errors are apparently in the prototype and Openlayers libraries. Also, for some reason the IE8 produces completely different error messages on different computers. If there is some interest in using NPTG viewer on IE8 I can try fixing the problems. Cheers, Christoph I note around here that where a Parish is named after the village, the Nptg LocalityName seems to be located near the OSM village-of-the-same-name node, rather than where the parish name renders in the centre of the admin boundary relation area. Still working out what I can do with it though. Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] pay_scale_area
Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk schrieb: With specialist data without a physical presence, like PlusBus zones, my view is that careful thought should be given to whether to import them into the main OSM database at all, and if they are imported they should use namespaced tags. On the Harwich area I renamed the name= tag to NaPTAN:name= yesterday when I was adding a footpath near Little Oakley and spent ages trying to work out why the word Harwich was appearing (in Mapnik) at an angle to a road about where the footpath was supposed to join. Being quite a large area with few nodes the connecting way didn't show in Potlatch until I'd panned around enough for one of the nodes to come into scope. So yes, I'd agree that name= should be namespaced, if not more of the tags. Hi I am the one who prepared the import of the PlusBus zones. When I decided to use the name tag I was not aware that the mapnik style renders them unconditionally otherwise I would not have imported the data without warning. In my opinion the name tag is used as a general purpose tag in OSM for names of all sorts of things. So, it appeared quite natural to use it for recording the names of the plus bus zones as well. From the other tags renderers can easily guess what type of object the name belongs to and the decide if it should be displayed. So there is no need to use namespaced versions of the name tag just to prevent the renderer from displaying it. Cheers, Christoph Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] pay_scale_area
Frankie Roberto fran...@frankieroberto.com schrieb: Dave F wrote: My initial response would be to agree with Chris M. query whether it should be included in the main database. It does seem to get in the way a bit. However, being a newbie, I'm willing to hear arguments for it. I'm not sure about it either. Long-term, it might be better to incorporate the information on the bus stop nodes themselves (pay_scale_area=XXX perhaps). However, given that'd it'd take a while to copy this information over (and it'd be harder to keep it up to date), perhaps we're best off just living with the boundary for the moment... The main reason why I imported the Plusbus data was because it was available as part of the NaPTAN import. But I also think since we add bus routes to the database it surely makes sense to add geographically defined pay scale areas. However, if the body of public transport related data grows further it might make sense in the (far) future to keep parts of it in a separate database. The problem I see with adding the PlusBus zone reference to the bus stops is that we then need to find a place where to store the other information about the zones (like name and ref). I considered using a relation for each PlusBus zone but Thomas told me that this does not work because there are to many bus stops within the zones. I think it's only a matter of time before I come across a POI that proudly proclaims - This is the spot where Sandra Hutchinson first let me stick my hand up her jumper :-) Heh. Sounds a bit like the geo information which is captured in the Open Plaques project (http://www.openplaques.org/) which I run... Neat! In Birmingham we have started to put the blue plaques in the OSM database as memorials. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: Would it be sensible to create a PlusBus page on the wiki, and link to it from the NaPTAN user in relation to the upload? The Wiki page can describe what the features are about and can also be used to list issues that need to be resolved. I am not offering to create the page so hopefully someone else will do that. (I am doing work on cleaning up other existing transit related wiki pages on when I have time). I am intending to create a page describing the NPTG/Plusbus Zone import. I just did not get round to do it yet. Christoph Regards, Peter Ed -Original Message- From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Roger Slevin Sent: 07 August 2009 09:20 To: 'Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics' Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Ed Useful feedback which I will take up with PlusBus - as they should have listed coastal boundary stops to avoid this situation. Best wishes Roger -Original Message- From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach Sent: 07 August 2009 08:59 To: talk-transit@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-transit] Naptan import I see some areas have been imported near here, public_transport=pay_scale_area, for Harwich and Clacton. Is there a wiki page somewhere detailing what these are (I'll search after sending this)? In the case of Clacton, it looks like it was defined as a line from the coast, inland, then back to the coast, so the segment that closes the area cuts right through the middle of town. Should I adjust this segment to follow the coastline? Clacton: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38387713 Similarly for Harwich, the northeast segment seems to almost cross the tip of the peninsula, and in so doing cuts off most of Harwich to mainly only include Dovercourt. Should I amend that segment to include Harwich? Harwich: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38387691 Thanks Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Is 'Transit' and 'Public Transport' the same thing?
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: Which leads to a question of terminology... Is 'transit' a synonym for 'public transport'? or not. If not then what is the difference? As a non-native speaker of english I find it easier to guess what 'public transport' means compared to 'transit'. In german 'transit' usually means passing through something (e.g. when going from the UK to Germany you transit Belgium and the Netherlands). Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Import
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: On 1 Aug 2009, at 22:51, Thomas Wood wrote: snip Ooops, I linked the wrong changeset! http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/389 was my intent. A couple of comments. Firstly, the locality field is an important part of the name in NaPTAN. The stop name can be constructed in a number of ways depending on how much precision is needed and what the geographic context is. For example, let's take this stop outside a pub called 'The Woodman' (which is in Ashteed). http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/396115 If the context for the enquiry was Ashteed itself, then one could say 'The Woodman (Adj)'. If the context was wider and one still needed to be precise one would say: 'Ashteed, The Woodman (Adj)'. Localities themselves are not always unique so there is the possibility for a locality to have a qualifier in NaPTAN. The full description for a bus stop called 'Long Road' in Cambridge in Cambridgeshire (rather than the one in Gloucestershire) would be 'Cambridge (Cambs), Long Road (opp)'. If the context was east anglia then one could drop the qualifier and it would become 'Cambridge, Long Road (opp)'. If the context was Cambridge itself then one could use 'Long Road (opp)'. So... what to do. I suggest we need a naptan:locality field which should contain the naptan locality name or possibly also naptan:natgazid as a unique reference for the place (to accommodate multiple localities with the same name). I am not clear what we do, but we need to do something. To me the functionality of the naptan:locality tag appears to be similar to the one of the is_in tag on places. With the introduction of boundaries these tags become less important in my opinion as you can easily find out the location of a feature by looking in which areas it is in. I think, putting the NaPTAN data in OSM is similar to drawing them on a map: The map (i.e. OSM) provides a rich context from which much information wich was stored as properties of the bus stops before can be derived. Cheers, Christoph Regards, Peter We're then ready to begin uploading to the main database. Cool :-) Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Plusbus zones are polygons which are unrelated to the road network - so for Rye it covers a large polygon defined by straight lines linking each pair of adjacent nodes on the source list of defining points. The representation of this along the roads is inappropriate - and certainly not how it should be should be shown in terms of the zone definition intended. The representation of the plusbus zones in OSM is still as it should be. Except for merging duplicate nodes they are the same as defined in the NPTG data. I just tried to describe why the zone for Rye has such an unusual shape compared to other zones. I didn't modify it to actually follow the roads. Sorry for causing confusion! Christoph The Rye example is a particularly extreme example, as there are few roads in the area with bus routes - and lots of marshland and open countryside covered by the Plusbus zone. Roger -Original Message- From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Böhme Sent: 02 August 2009 00:24 To: Thomas Wood Cc: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/30 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit That looks fine, the only issue is that none of the polygons are closed! Oh, good that you noticed this. I fixed the file and uploaded it again. Christoph I have run JOSM's validator over it to clean up some duplicate ways, and the more obviously incorrect polygon geometries (West Mids had a weird doubleback by the look of it) a few have overlapping segments, but I've chosen to ignore their 'errorness'. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2008301 Good idea to use JOSM's validator, I should have done it myself ... The incorrect geometries are converted directly from the NPTG data. Some of the polygons there have duplicate nodes. Removing the duplicate nodes was a sensible choice, I think. I had a look at the very distorted Plusbus Zone for Rye. Its strange shape seems to stem from the fact that it simple spans four villages and follows the road between them. I think there are similar reasons for the other errors. Thank you checking and importing the changeset! Christoph -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Import
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: I think all outstanding coding issues have now been dealt with. There's one minor tagging issue to address - should the source tag be on the data or changesets. Since the source tag applies to the whole changeset it makes sense to tag only the changeset. However, I believe editors do not display changeset tags at the moment. This means changeset tags are basically not visible when you edit data. While it can be handy to see the source of an element when you edit it (e.g. I'm much less relucant to move NPE-sourced data if it does not fit with my tracks than surveyed data) this should not be a problem with the naptan-import. The naptan:-tags are a very obvious hint where the data is coming from. So, I'd vote for placing the source-tag at the changeset. Otherwise, a test upload of the Surrey data is visible here - http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/394 Comments welcomed. Could it be that the tags are missing? All the nodes I have looked at are empty (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/416977, for example) We're then ready to begin uploading to the main database. Cool :-) Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Import
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/8/1 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: Otherwise, a test upload of the Surrey data is visible here - http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/394 Comments welcomed. Could it be that the tags are missing? All the nodes I have looked at are empty (http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/416977, for example) Ooops, I linked the wrong changeset! http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/389 was my intent. That looks much better :-) I noticed that the bus stops are all tagged with highway=bus_stop. Is this intentional? I thought this should depend on what people wished for their local area. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/30 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit That looks fine, the only issue is that none of the polygons are closed! Oh, good that you noticed this. I fixed the file and uploaded it again. Christoph I have run JOSM's validator over it to clean up some duplicate ways, and the more obviously incorrect polygon geometries (West Mids had a weird doubleback by the look of it) a few have overlapping segments, but I've chosen to ignore their 'errorness'. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2008301 Good idea to use JOSM's validator, I should have done it myself ... The incorrect geometries are converted directly from the NPTG data. Some of the polygons there have duplicate nodes. Removing the duplicate nodes was a sensible choice, I think. I had a look at the very distorted Plusbus Zone for Rye. Its strange shape seems to stem from the fact that it simple spans four villages and follows the road between them. I think there are similar reasons for the other errors. Thank you checking and importing the changeset! Christoph -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Christoph Sorry - I now realise I shouldn't have referred to inactive localities ... this is something I can see on the editor system for NPTG, but the export only shows the active localities ... the records of the inactive ones are not included in the standard XML file. I would need to check whether it is possible to get an extract from NPTG which includes inactive records (or only comprises the inactive ones) - but that is a question I will only ask if someone can suggest that some useful purpose could be served by having access to that data. The only reason for using the inactive data I can see is a comparison with OSM-only places. This could indicate NPTG places which might have been deactivated because they are not part of the public transport network. Unless we want to add data from NPTG to existing OSM stops (e.g. the locality code) this information is probably more relevant to the DoT than OSM. However, since places in OSM might be derived from NPE maps, OSM-only places could also mean that the locality has been abandoned in the time since 1950. Your brief history of NPTG indicates to me that the data is probably much more recent then NPE's 1950 data. It might therefore be interesting to know which places are only in OSM and not even in the inactive NPTG data. Such places have then probably been abandoned a long time ago. Christoph Roger -Original Message- From: Christoph Böhme [mailto:christ...@b3e.net] Sent: 28 July 2009 22:54 To: ro...@slevin.plus.com; Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Cc: ro...@slevin.plus.com; 'Peter Miller' Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Roger, thank you for your explanations. Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Although NPTG was originally for public transport purposes, we stressed at all times that a locality should be listed even if it has no public transport - but we know that some local editors have probably erred towards marking some unserved rural hamlets as inactive. All inactive localities should still be in the data - so hamlets which are missing may be in NPTG, but marked as inactive. What would an inactive entry look like in the data? The xml schema does not seem to define any elements/attributes for inactive entries. However they may simply never have been in the source data - and no one to date has recognised the need to add them to NPTG. It would be interesting to see what localities OSM holds in its data which are not included in NPTG (as well as the reverse of this) if that is possible. I created two tables of OSM- and NTPG-only places: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/nptg-only-localities.csv.gz http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/osm-only-localities.csv.gz I considered a place to be only in one dataset if no place from the other dataset exists in its proximity which has the same name. Proximity was defined as an euclidian distance less than 0.3 between the lat/lon positions of the places (I don't know how this relates to kilometres/miles). Since the OSM data contains some nodes with place-tags that have nothing with actual places, I only included nodes with a place-value of either locality, island, suburb, hamlet, village, municipality, town or city. I also excluded place=farm. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: On 27 Jul 2009, at 22:14, Christoph Böhme wrote: Hi Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Locality Classification was added as a possible nice to have to the version 2 schema but it has not been populated, and no guidance has been created to indicate how this field should be used (save for a table of permitted values). There is no classification data in NPTG other than that which comes from the source - and that is only there because it could be ... I would not recommend its use as it is flaky, and offers nothing in respect of newly created locality entries in the Gazetteer. So, it looks like we will not have any classification information. Unless we just want to import the plain names this will complicate the import a bit as we have to somehow map the locations to OSM place- types. At the moment I am having three ideas how we could do this: Based on the parent relationship we could guess if a location might be a suburb or village. Many places have wikipedia entries (even villages). If we can manage to automatically look the entries up and extract the relevant information (population size) from the info box we could probably classify a lot of places. The landsat data might give us some hints about the size of places. We just need to find a way to retrieve this information automatically :-) Alternatively we could just invent a value for unclassified places and wait for people to classify the places. It seems that the NPTG data is less useful than it could have been because the the lack of classification data. We do of course also have access to locality names from other sources including NPE maps for places that are more than 50 years old and our eye-balls. Despite the lack of classification the NPTG data can still easily be matched with the data already in OSM. So, while not being able to import the whole dataset we could still add some data to existing places if we want. The NPTG has the following to offer: - Administrative Area - Atco Area Code - NPTG District in parts of the county (do these districts have any relation with ceremonial/administrative counties?) - NPTG locality reference - Alternative names (e.g. welsh names) - Short names - Qualifiers for duplicate names Do you think we should import any of this? Especially when taking the NaPTAN import into acconut the Atco Area Code or NPTG locality references might become handy, I reckon. Talking of the NaPTAN import: The NPTG data also contains polygons for the Plusbus Zones. This data is self-contained and can easily be imported. They could be either imported as ways tagged with their zone code and their name or we could create an additional relation that holds all the bus stops which are part of the zone as well. The latter would, of course, only be necessary if there are bus stops within the polygon which are not part of the zone or vice versa. Possibly we just provide NPTG data as a useful 'free' data overlay for creating localities in OSM in association with data from NPE but don't spend too long trying to do an automatic import of that data. I am of the same opinion. Most of the missing places in OSM are small hamlets, villages and suburbs and it is going to be really difficult to automatically distinguish these automatically. So, I will rather improve the NPTG viewer a bit so that it does not display NPTG places which are already in OSM anymore. This tool can then be used as a guide to find umapped places. You mention matching localities up with Wikipedia. I see no licensing issues with using data from Wikipieda as far as I am aware btw. Would be great to tie places up with Wikipedia and possibly also with woeids (http://developer.yahoo.com/geo/geoplanet/) but that could be something for later. We should keep this in mind. Although, I am not sure if it makes much sense to add tags to OSM in a completely automated process as this information can easily be applied when its needed. Cheers, Christoph Regards, Peter Do you have any other ideas? Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Talking of the NaPTAN import: The NPTG data also contains polygons for the Plusbus Zones. This data is self-contained and can easily be imported. They could be either imported as ways tagged with their zone code and their name or we could create an additional relation that holds all the bus stops which are part of the zone as well. The latter would, of course, only be necessary if there are bus stops within the polygon which are not part of the zone or vice versa. I tried to create a relation for plusbus zone stops from the NaPTAN data but there were simply too many - we quickly hit the OSM relation member maximum. Okay, that answers the question. I simple create a polygon then. I suggest the following tagging scheme for the ways: public_transport=pay_scale_area ref=Plusbus zone ref name=Plusbus zone name Is pay scale area the correct general name for things like the plusbus zones? I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit That looks fine, the only issue is that none of the polygons are closed! Oh, good that you noticed this. I fixed the file and uploaded it again. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-GB] Red Routes
Hi, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk schrieb: On 29 Jul 2009, at 16:26, Brian Prangle wrote: Finally decided to map red routes after avoiding it for over a year (red routes are sprouting up rapidly in South Birmingham despite fierce oppostion from local traders - they're no stopping routes which are rigidly enforced). There's not much to guide me as a mapper following a quick search in the usual places - so can the community offer some thoughts so we can get a consensus and a common approach for those few of us who have to contend with them? The following initial offering is from our local tagging guru Andy Robinson (who else?) If it's a red route I'd suggest red_route=yes on it since the regulations applicable to a red route don't fit easily into any one category. However since there aren't many places with Red Routes yet (only London [1] and West Mids [2] in the UK?) we could have a stab with the London folks on how they should be mapped better than this. Bus lanes could very much fall into the thoughts as well as Urban Clearways. Edinburgh had decided to be different and call these roads greenways. (I think the idea was to have a positive spin on the fact that green transport can use it rather than it being a place that you can't go by denoting them red.) http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/CityDevelopment/TransportandTravel/Parking/GreenwaysandBusLanes/Greenways_And_Bus_Lanes.html In Germany it is relatively common to have bus lanes which also allow taxis and cyclists to travel on them. Green Routes seem to be a very similar concept. So perhaps it makes sense to build a tagging scheme based on bus lanes as busses seem to be the main reason for the introduction of the lanes and add additional allowed vecicles. I do not know if Green Routes is just another name for Red Routes. The Red Routes seem to put a much greater emphasis on the fact that you are not allowed to stop there. Christoph Shaun These are all some sort of restriction so maybe that tagging approach should be considered. For times, the start / end type tags should be good enough, though it gets more complicated if you have to also add a tag that stats which days it applies to and when there is more than one time period of operation in a given day. For example the Stratford Road Red Route operates M-S 7am-7pm [1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/finesandregulations/949.aspx [2] http://www.westmidlandsltp.gov.uk/redroutes.php?id=2493 Bus Lanes are yet another headache! Regards Brian ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Roger, thank you for your explanations. Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Although NPTG was originally for public transport purposes, we stressed at all times that a locality should be listed even if it has no public transport - but we know that some local editors have probably erred towards marking some unserved rural hamlets as inactive. All inactive localities should still be in the data - so hamlets which are missing may be in NPTG, but marked as inactive. What would an inactive entry look like in the data? The xml schema does not seem to define any elements/attributes for inactive entries. However they may simply never have been in the source data - and no one to date has recognised the need to add them to NPTG. It would be interesting to see what localities OSM holds in its data which are not included in NPTG (as well as the reverse of this) if that is possible. I created two tables of OSM- and NTPG-only places: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/nptg-only-localities.csv.gz http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/osm-only-localities.csv.gz I considered a place to be only in one dataset if no place from the other dataset exists in its proximity which has the same name. Proximity was defined as an euclidian distance less than 0.3 between the lat/lon positions of the places (I don't know how this relates to kilometres/miles). Since the OSM data contains some nodes with place-tags that have nothing with actual places, I only included nodes with a place-value of either locality, island, suburb, hamlet, village, municipality, town or city. I also excluded place=farm. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com schrieb: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Ross Scanloni...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Does this mean the bridge has a clearance of 2.8 or the road under the bridge has a clearance of 2.8. To me this would suggest the bridge has a limit of 2.8 ie vehicles travelling over the bridge can not be above 2.8 high. I'd suggest that if the bridge has a height limit, ie clearance, then the bridge is tagged with max_height. If the road under the bridge has a height limit, ie clearance, then the road is tagged. Sorry, maybe this is a language issue. In my mind, height limit of a way refers to maximum height *above* the way, whereas clearance of a way infers maximum height *under* the way. Maybe clearance isn't the best word for this - please suggest others. According to Wikipedia clearance [1] is the free space between a vehicle and the structure (i.e. bridge) it is passing through. The maximum height (and width) of the vehicle is -- at least for railways -- called loading gauge [2] while the dimensions of the structure are called structure gauge [3]. Thus, what we find on signs is the loading gauge. Christoph [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags
OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com schrieb: Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So just one website imports the boundary data instead of everyone having to know how to do the 'is within' search[2]. I think you might be able to do this with http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Server_Side_Script Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Good evening, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: On 26 Jul 2009, at 22:14, Christoph Böhme wrote: I also created a copy of the NOVAM viewer and changed it to display NTPG data instead of bus stops: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/nptg.wsgi/viewer.html Great stuff, and clearly there are many additional place-names in NPTG that are not in OSM a present in many parts of the county. I checked North Norfolk and bits of Scotland and there are a good number of additional places. I have now also added all nodes with place=* tags from OSM. The NPTG import will really add a lot of additional places! OSM has only 25397 places in the UK at the moment. However, I was a bit suprised to see some hamlets in the OSM data which are not in the NPTG data. Do you know of any gaps in the NPTG data? The LocalityClassification field should be more useful and should contain city, town, village, hamlet, suburb, urbancentre, place of interest, other, or unrecorded. I am not sure how well this field is populated - possibly it is not well populated at all. UrbanCentre can possibly be ignored. The LocalityClassification tag is used 856 times in the dataset. That is about 2% of all localities. The field may be well populated in some parts of the country and not in other. I am not sure how much NPTG is used for Points of Interest. There is a POI model in NPTG but possibly we treat this separately or not at all or import the data as invisible to start with. My main interest is the locality names and the main technical job will probably be to spot duplicates with what is in OSM already. Finding duplicates should not be too difficult. We basically just need to check for each imported location if there are any places with the same name within a reasonable distance. Except for typos and different spellings that should work very well. The positions of locations in both datasets also match nicely which should make it even easier to find duplicates. Would it be worth creating a NPTG Import wiki page and an NPTG Import user to do the actual import - ie, keep the documentation and audit trail for the two imports separate? I am in favour of keeping them separate. Both datasets are fairly independent and we will probably use different methods to import them. Having everything on one wiki page will be confusing to users, who might be interested only in one of the imports. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Hi Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Locality Classification was added as a possible nice to have to the version 2 schema but it has not been populated, and no guidance has been created to indicate how this field should be used (save for a table of permitted values). There is no classification data in NPTG other than that which comes from the source - and that is only there because it could be ... I would not recommend its use as it is flaky, and offers nothing in respect of newly created locality entries in the Gazetteer. So, it looks like we will not have any classification information. Unless we just want to import the plain names this will complicate the import a bit as we have to somehow map the locations to OSM place-types. At the moment I am having three ideas how we could do this: Based on the parent relationship we could guess if a location might be a suburb or village. Many places have wikipedia entries (even villages). If we can manage to automatically look the entries up and extract the relevant information (population size) from the info box we could probably classify a lot of places. The landsat data might give us some hints about the size of places. We just need to find a way to retrieve this information automatically :-) Alternatively we could just invent a value for unclassified places and wait for people to classify the places. Do you have any other ideas? Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Hi Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: I am also aware that there is a 50K place gazetteer sitting there untouched - last week I was adding villages in Norfolk by hand and the data is sitting available in NPTG. I taught myself XSLT at the weekend and played a bit with the NPTG data. On http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/ you can find some html-pages which show the hierarchies of and adjacencies between the localities in the NTPG data. I also created a copy of the NOVAM viewer and changed it to display NTPG data instead of bus stops: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/nptg.wsgi/viewer.html I have not changed any of the texts/images yet, so the localities will be displayed as bus stops :-). I will try to import an excerpt of place names from OSM tomorrow so that we can compare both data sets. From what I have seen so far an import should not be too difficult. The only difficulties I expect are the hierarchies and the classification of the localities. Does anyone know the current way to tag hierarchies of places? I had a look at the wiki and there seem to be two approaches: is_in and relations. With the addition of actual borders there is also the possibility of defining hierarchies purely geometrical. The location classifications in the NPTG seem to be relatively coarse. Everything below a parish is either a New Entry (Add) or a Locality. We need to see how this can be mapped to POI types in OSM. Do you need help with the NaPTAN import or are you just about ready to do the work? Do we need to set up a wiki page where people can request imports for their authority or are we going to do it without that? I am happy to continue working on the NPTG import if Thomas does not mind. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
SteveC wrote: On 1 Jul 2009, at 19:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, SteveC wrote: But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of bugs. We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose more of the bugs. I believe that the types of bugs one can look for are quite different. You'd have to build a very good system if it is to be able to capture all kinds of bugs - don't think that simply having something like lat/lon/text is enough, because some bugs might be relevant for a whole area, or you might have a two nearby streets share the same name bug which points to two ways rather than one location, etc etc How about we borrow tags from OSM? Bugs have lat,lng,text and keyvals? What you think? They main thing I want to say though - is lets just build something simple and iterate. Absolutle minimum feature set is a RESTful API plus a OSB-like interface. After the last discussion about an improved OSB, I had a go at building a system that had tags, file uploads and could also handle different geometries of errors (basically a Swiss Army knife for osm metadata). This system never reached a point were it became usable. However, I learned a couple of things while programming it: For bug-*tracking* you need to have a history of changes made to a bug. While for some tags only the current value is relevant (e.g. a status tag) for others each version of the tag is important (e.g. if comments are implemented with tags). Since the server is agnostic about the meaning of tags all semantic knowledge need to be implemented in the clients. This makes client implementations quite complex. Also searching for bugs becomes a task of its own as you need something like XAPI or O3S to build queries unless you want to filter the bugs on the client-side. I also realised during the develeopment that tags are a concept which is very similar to the fields/columns in a database. Their advantage over fields is that each object can have a different set of tags and that the database does not need to be changed to add new tags. The disadvantage is that the database has no knowledge on how to handle the data and that clients cannot make many assumptions about the data that is available for an object. In the osm database the flexibility offered by tags is need because every mapper needs to add new types of objects and tags quite regularly. However IMHO the situation is a bit different in a bug tracker: First, the range of different object types is much smaller as bugs are not that different from each other. Second, the server needs to know about the information it holds in order to search it properly. And third, users are probably not going to manually add tags to bugs, only developers of bug tracking application might want to add additional information to a bug. To conclude: IMO tags can be a nice add-on to allow applications to provide additional data for a bug the basic stuff should be managed in a normal database in order to allow easy client implementations. After all its just a bug tracker which should people tell where the OSM data needs improvements. If you want to do something completely different you can always set-up a database and build another tool. And this might be easier in the end than using an extremely flexible bug tracker. I might not be seeing the bigger picture here, but my experiences with my bug tracker idea led me to the conclusion that a restricted tool might do a better job than something very flexible. Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Melchior Moos melchiorm...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, Bus routes are appearing nicely now on: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for Manchester. Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing (multiple operators with different fare structures, and routes that seem to change monthly) that this kind of map would be really useful. I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes). I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham: http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13lat=53.48074lon=-2.24051 regards, Melchior Yes, Melchior deserves the kudos for making the public transport map! We merely display his great map on Mappa Mercia. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [OSM-talk] Thousands of small changesets by Tim Proegler
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: Can we ban it, the stuff its uploading is completely useless. (single nodes with only note tags and no other useful metadata) All the nodes I have looked at are for german petrol stations. The script does not seem to check if the station has already been mapped and only setting the note tag is really not much help in sorting this out later. I am also wondering were the data is coming from. 1753 petrol stations covering an area of 5x5 degrees are quite a lot, I think. Christoph 2009/6/24 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: http://www.mchme.com/#openstreetmap looks like the software they've used. 1753 changesets in less than 20 minutes. Shaun On 24 Jun 2009, at 17:58, S Knox wrote: Does anyone know why Tim Proegler http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/timproegler/edits has made so many small edits under the name of KMLManager in such a short space of time (1 day as a member)? The recent changes page was at one point full of his changesets. Is this legitimate, or a mistake? Regards Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] mappa mercia website updated
Hi all, I updated the mappa mercia website [1]. The main change is the addition of the cycling map and the public transport map. Both can be found when clicking on The Maps entry in the menu bar. If you like to see any other maps on the site please tell me. They can be easily added. I think a map with historic POIs (blue plaques etc) would be nice, for example. I am also not so happy with the texts in the side bar of the map pages. Perhaps someone can write something better. The current version does not support Internet Explorer 6 anymore. After adding submenus to the menubar it stopped displaying the site nicely. Since I do not quite see the reason for spending hours trying to fix this only because one or two visitors might still use Internet Explorer 6, I added a message instead which explains why mappa mercia looks ugly in their browser :-) So, and now I think we should get more bus routes mapped ... Cheers, Christoph [1] http://www.mappa-mercia.org/ ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [OSM-talk] Crossings of a road
Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk schrieb: On 12 Jun 2009, at 14:44, Ed Avis wrote: Here the major road is a dual carriageway with a fence in the middle, so pedestrians cannot cross: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.490971lon=-0.234075zoom=18layers=B000FTF There are subways which I have mapped as level=-1 paths crossing the road. But then this path is unconnected to anything else on the map. I want to express that you can walk along one side of the road, then use the subway to get to the other side. You could place a footway parallel to the road and map in higher than normal. I often map the pavement/sidewalk separately from the main road when there they are separated from it by a stripe of grass, trees or hedges. However, while this allows for a quite detailed mapping of footpaths, it does not look very nice on the map as you end up with many dashed red lines parallel to each road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4265lon=-1.94337zoom=16layers=B000FTF I am thinking of tagging these footways as highway=pavement/sidewalk (whatever is not ambiguous) so that renderers can distinguish them from normal footways which are not part of a bigger road. This would allow to only show them in very high zoom levels and also to display them in less catching colours. Or bring the footway out to the end of the tunnel, roughly like so: | | -|--|- \| |/ | | | | Here is an example of what this solution would look like on the map: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.47213lon=-1.920605zoom=18layers=B000FTF Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crossings of a road
andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/6/12 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk schrieb: You could place a footway parallel to the road and map in higher than normal. I often map the pavement/sidewalk separately from the main road when there they are separated from it by a stripe of grass, trees or hedges. However, while this allows for a quite detailed mapping of footpaths, it does not look very nice on the map as you end up with many dashed red lines parallel to each road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4265lon=-1.94337zoom=16layers=B000FTF I think this looks fine and is also faithful to the reality, even if the pavement is not physically separate from the road, logically it is a different route. Hmm, I do not really like the looks of it, but that's prorably in the eye of the beholder. I think there is no point in arguing about it. I am thinking of tagging these footways as highway=pavement/sidewalk (whatever is not ambiguous) so that renderers can distinguish them from normal footways which are not part of a bigger road. This would allow to only show them in very high zoom levels and also to display them in less catching colours. This loses the information of which side the sidewalk is and that may be important for routing. No, I do not want to change anything else apart from setting the highway-tag to sidewalk instead of footway. They are still separate ways like I have drawn them. I only thought of tagging them differently from footways to indicate that the are logically linked with a nearby road. However, writing logically linked just rings the relation-bell in my head and it seems that there are already relations for this kind of problem :-) Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-ca] [OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
Mario Salvini salv...@t-online.de schrieb: Heiko Jacobs schrieb: In gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap Christoph Boehme christ...@b3e.net wrote: In Germany bicycle boulevards and normal cycle ways are different types of roads with different rules applying to them. Bicycle boulevards also tend to look more like proper roads than cycle ways. For example Indeed not really. only the explicit allowance to drive next to each other instead of just inline. the rest is exact the same as on normal cycleways. .. and it requires cyclists and all other allowed vehicles to only drive at moderate speeds (mäßige Geschwindigkeit, 25-30km/h). IMHO this does not apply to normal cycleways. Christoph ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [OSM-talk] Is 'name' tag mandatory for a 'living_street'?
Hi Sergey, in Germany a living_street is a designated type of street with a special sign [1]. So, I would only use living_street for this type of streets. I usually tag alleys either as service or if they are in a very bad condition as track. Perhaps it would make sense to introduce highway=alley? cheers, Christoph [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Zeichen_325.svg USHAKOV, Sergey usha...@int.com.ru schrieb: Hi, the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street suggests that 'living_street' objects should be attributed with a 'name' tag. Meanwhile it is not uncommon for residential areas to have unnamed alleys inside, and the latter may form a complicated network that deserves being documented and rendered on the map. Is it appropriate/advisable to use 'living_street' objects for these unnamed alleys? Another candidate might be 'service', but to my mind 'service' is not good as does not reflect pedestrians' priority... Regards, Sergey ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Micro-Mapping on Thursday
Hi everyone, are there any plans for the Birmingham social on Thursday yet? I am wondering if we should continue with the address mapping. I find it quite difficult and slightly demotivating to do in the city centre and it might put off newcomers quickly. I am also unsure how helpful a patchy address coverage actually is. Finally, I think address mapping might get much easier if we had arial imagery so that we could (at least roughly) outline the plots before collecting addresses. What do you think? Has anyone any other suggestions what we could map? Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [OSM-talk] announcing new OSB service
Mitja Kleider mi...@mitjakleider.de schrieb: I hope that this patch will be applied soon. Xavier was afraid of Javascript slowness now where each request returns 100 bugs. Can anyone confirm that this is a problem? This number could still be changed. I just had a look at the application I am developing at the moment. It holds 400+ features in an array and displays about 100+ of them on the map at a time. It uses a vector layer to display features but an earlier version used a marker layer to display almost the same data and I had no performance issues with this. So, I think the numbers should be comparable. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Can someone just check
Hi Gareth, welcome aboard! Gareth Walker subscr...@illmann-walker.com schrieb: I had a little go at doing some mapping of Willenhall town centre. I still have to work out alleyways and add on other streets I did. I usually tag alleyways either as tracks or as service-ways depending what they look like. I wondered if anyone can have a quick look and see if I've done it right so I don't start with bad practice. It looks very nice. Good work! I only have two comments: You seem to use highway=tertiary (the yellow roads) quite a lot. It might make sense to use highway=unclassified for some of these roads. Just have a look at what other town centres look like. Wolverhampton Road seems to be almost straight. In such cases there is no need to add lots of additional nodes along the way (unless there are junctions, of course). Just put one node at the beginning and one at the end. When collecting traces on foot the gps trace is often a bit jittery which can make it difficult to see if the road is straight. But if you remember that the road was straight then you can just draw it as a straight line. I've gone through a lot of the videos and tutorials but the one thing I haven't been able to work out is how to split roads up. In Potlatch (the editor which opens when you click on the edit tab) you can split a road by selecting a node in the middle of the road an press 'x'. If there is no node yet at the position where you want to split it, you can add one by shift-clicking on the way. I find the wiki page with the potlatch shortcuts really helpful when I use Potlatch [1]. To split a road in JOSM you also have to select a node in the road and then press 'p' (or use the menu option). Adding nodes can easier be done by dragging the cross in the middle of a way or by using the add tool and then clicking on the way. I'm a bit flummoxed for doing much walking at the moment on account of having two toenails removed but I'll try to get some more done. That sounds painful! I hope you get better soon. The midlands user group is having their monthly social on next Thursday in Birmingham centre. You are welcome to come along. We will do some mapping before and then meet in a pub. All the details can be found here: [2][3] Cheers, Christoph [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch/Keyboard_shortcuts [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Midlands%2C_UK_User_Group [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/Inner_Ringroad ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[OSM-talk] Wiki-admins: Enabling CategoryTree extension
Hi wiki-admins would it be possible to install/enable the CategoryTree extension [1] in the wiki? This extension allows embedding category contents in wiki pages. IMHO this would help a lot to keep many of the lists on the wiki pages up to date. E.g. additionally to the Users in XY categories many towns and areas have lists of active users on their pages. These could be maintained much easier if merely the relevant categories were embedded. The same could be done to maintain lists of places within regions. Thank you! Christoph [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] What is OSM and what isn't?
Hi everyone in my opinion OSM should not try to compete with mapping websites by offering more and more tools for using maps. This is because I think such an endeavour would have three problems: First, how to decide which of the hundreds of tools out there are integrated on the OSM website and which are not? People will surely have very different opinions about what an online map needs. Second, offering map services to the end-user will bind a lot of resources (humans computers) which could otherwise be used to improve the data. And third, I think, it can lead to a centralisation of the OSM ecosphere with projects not being on the main website not gaining much attention since they are not considered a real part of OSM anymore. However, OSM obviously needs some showcase to advertise what you can do with the data. But why not creating a real showcase then? A set of webpages which explain with some examples what it actually means to have open geo-data and not just a free-beer map. The showcase could show examples for common use cases like user-defined renderings, different routing services, etc and provide links to pages offering these services. The main website website could then just have a big link saying: See what you can do with OpenStreetMaps! A disadvantage of concentrating solely on the data is that normal website users will be unlikely to ever see the OSM website and thus never become aware that they can help to improve the map they are seeing on a website. I think this problem could be approached by encouraging users of OSM data to add links like Are things missing on this map? or Is there an error on this map? to their maps which link to a page explaining that the map used on the website is an open map and that users can easily add the missing data themselves if they want to (or they could at least create an Openstreetbug). Cheers, Christoph Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) ajrli...@googlemail.com schrieb: Moved to Talk. Jochen Topf wrote Sent: 30 April 2009 8:41 AM To: d...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-dev] What is OSM and what isn't? The discussion on using Cloudmade routing on the OSM website points to a deeper question: What is the OpenStreetMap project and how do we want to present it on openstreetmap.org? When giving talks or generally talking to people about OpenStreetMap one of the questions I hear the most is: Is OpenStreetMap planning to do X? X beeing a routing service or a website where people can upload their hiking trails, photos, whatever or many other things people think can be done with the maps. And I try to explain people that OSM is providing the data and the maps and that its not the goal of OSM to provide every conceivable map or mapping web site or service. Thats the mindset people have gotten into: We wait for Google or Yahoo or Microsoft to come up with the service and thats it. I think we should encourage people to build their own, to build a whole eco-system of different websites and services, not try to get too many things inside the core OSM project. We should make clear what the OSM part in this eco-system is: providing the data. I think we should come up with an idea what the core of the OSM project ist and those things should be on the openstreetmap.org website and maintained by the community in an open fashion. Everything else can be done on different web sites and be linked to. Thats the power of the web. Once we start bringing in other services, where do we stop? There are already hundreds of web sites with OSM based maps, routing services etc. All of them could argue that they want to be on openstreetmap.org. Surely the ski lift map is useful when entering data for ski areas. So I think we should distinguish between the core, the open community project, on the one side and other projects (commercial or non-commercial) which build upon OSM. I agree, its good to have the discussion and I'm fully with Jochen here that OSM is currently (and personally I feel should remain) about the data; how it is put into the database and how maintained. For background, many moons ago we needed in a hurry to come up with the aims of the project and the little ditty that was produced ended up in the OSMF Articles of Association. It states: OpenStreetMap Foundation is dedicated to encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free geospatial data and to providing geospatial data for anybody to use and share. It's right that these aims are debated by the community from time to time. Now is as good a time as any. The above breaks down into the following: 1. Encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free geospatial. 2. Providing geospatial data for anybody to use and share. So anyone with strong views on whether these two aims are still appropriate or whether they feel we should have other aims as well please air them. From the Foundation point of view, any change in the
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN import
Hi all has there been any progress with the NaPTAN import yet? The list has been very quiet recently. I started programming the visual merge tool but I have not yet reached a point where there is something to show. I decided not to modify the busstop data in the osm database directly but to keep a seperate copy of the relevant nodes that can be merged into the database at some point when we tidied it up (basically like the dracos tool does it). Just wanted to let you know that I have not given up on the import ... Christoph Brian Prangle bpran...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi everyone Summarising where I believe we've got to: 1. Thomas: schedule for completion - we're entirely in your hands - agree it's best to avoid the API update. 2. Birmingham only for test import 3. No highway=bus_stop tags, enabling us to merge/verify existing OSM data ( Christophe's visual tool to eventually solve this manual task) BUT tag taxi ranks as amenity=taxi 4. Import on the basis of the current selection/naming in naptan tagging wiki. Imports to be carried out by new user naptan 5. Plusbus zones and stop areas - import the naptan data only and leave doing anything with it until the debate on stopareas reaches a conclusion 6. Roger/Peter: is our current method of accessing the data OK? Or do you have to explicitly issue us with a dataset (perhaps the data publicly available for test is not the most current/accurate?) 7. Andy: agree on re-tagging w mids bus stops with route_ref and using semicolons instead of pipes to separate route nos in order to standardise - presume you have an automated routine for this? 8. Update needed on wiki regarding bus_stops (Andy? I'm happy to do a first draft for you to edit before publication - or better still submit it to this discussion list) Parked for later discussion/solution a)Stopareas (see above) b)Big-bang vs regional adoption (probably a talk gb discussion once Birmingham data and process completed) c)handling NaPTAN bus_stop updates d) importing further NaPTAN public transport data e) user feedback - there's a wide range of skill and experience in the OSM community and there are certain to be problems. An explicit route needed? f) how to maintain data integrity once it's imported and inexperienced users potentially delete data that other users have written applications that rely on it being there. I guess this is general problem not specific to this project- but this is a donated dataset and potentially could drive a considerable number of applications Unless there are any strong objections,(or I've ommitted anything from the discussions) I'd like to think we can close the discussion on the import and let Thomas get on with finishing the coding. Thank you everyone for your time and contributions We can continue discussion on the parked items and anything else that doesn't impact the coding for the first live Birmingham import Regards Brian ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[OSM-talk] Openstreetbugs source code
Hi, I recently integrated openstreetbugs in the mappa-mercia website. Since this received some interest I extracted the osb code from the site and made it available for download on http://www.b3e.net/openstreetbugs.html The archive contains a modified version of Xavier's osb javascript code, some documentation, and four python scripts which implement a simple osb server-side. With the code from the archive it is possible to deploy a complete osb setup. The server-side scripts were mostly developed for testing my modified version. They probably need some love and intensive testing before using them on a public website. All code is made available under GPLv3. I have emailed with Xavier and he is fine with this. Christpoh ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Birmingham Apostrophes
And now someone has written a song about it: http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2009/02/06/birmingham-apostrophe-row-inspires-us-songwriter-65233-22872836/ Christoph Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com schrieb: was also in the Guardian and the Times http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5614962.ece ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetbug
Hi, I just embedded openstreetbugs in a website for the Birmingham finish. It works very well and the javascript code is quite self-contained and should be easily embedable in other websites as well. I am currently talking to Xav (the inventor of osb) about this. He said that he does not mind copying and modifing his code. Since I do not mind either, the clientside code is available (http://www.mappa-mercia.org/scripts/map.js to be exactly. There is some other stuff at the top of the file but not much). So, the clientside code is available and almost ready. On the server side there is not much to be done. Its basically filing new bugs in a table, retrieving bugs within a bounding box from this table and adding comments into a second table. However, this code is not written yet (if I would only be a better Ruby programmer ...). Christoph Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com schrieb: You know what would be really cool? If people could use Openstreetbugs (OSB) on the main Openstreetmap site. It makes it very easy to help new wannabe mappers, and hopefully easier for them to ask for help. The last time this was up it got stuck because we don't have the source for OSB. Which would be nice to have. See: http://www.nabble.com/OpenStreetBugs-td20687061.html http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/983 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac
Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Christoph Böhme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the moment I am trying to figure out if bug reports reports can be stored directly in the osm database using standard nodes and tags. Please, please don't take or advocate this approach. The OSM core tables should, ideally, contain geo-data. We already anticipate much of the meta-data (e.g. created_by tags, usernames) to be applied to changesets (which are in themselves natively metadata). There's been a long and steady agreement that future bug tracking systems won't just slap nodes into the midst of our geotables. I was not aware of this agreement. When I first started thinking about a bug tracker I intended to keep the bug reports in data structures separate from the osm database. But in the following discussions I got the feeling that a bug tracker which allowed free-form tagging would be very welcomed. But implementing this means basically replicating the node-objects (and the way-objects too if you want to mark buggy areas). So, I concluded it would be the easiest to just introduce a new set of tags and manage them differently in the clients. However, I can see why this is not a very clean solution and I am happy to implement in a different dataset. However, this is another subject that needs more doing and less talking :-) I am really eager to start programming something but at the moment I am still trying to figure out what exactly. I do not want to spend time writing a bug tracker that is then rejected because of the way it stores the bug reports. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac
Hi! Donald Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Apart from this, the lifecycle of a bug is essentially the same in each case so the same tool could be used, but with a different front end. You are probably right about the lifecycle. When I wrote the proposal for an improved bugtracker I noticed that the steps to deal with a map bug might be called differently but are in fact similar to dealing with normal bugs. I also think that a different user front end is definitely necessary. I only started using osb once I found the plugin for josm. I want to mark bugs while entering my data or marking them as fixed imediately after fixing them. If I fix several small bugs (and most bugs are just small things) I do not want to go on a separate website and locate the bugs only to mark them as fixed. I might even accidentally fix bugs without noticing that they exist if I do not see them in the editor. Changing the user interfac of a bug tracker sounds like a logical solution but what I still haven't found out is what will be left from the original bugtracker once I changed the user interface. I have the feeling that there would not be left much more than a database with a couple of methods to query bug reports, add or update them, and request notifications on changes. Since osm does not usually have restrictive read/write access policies there is not even authorization code needed. All the logic of how to handle bug reports is implemented in the different front ends. Depending on the application this logic might be quite different. So, I do not really see a reason why to build upon an existing bug tracker and thereby possibly restraining future applications of the map bug tracker by relying on a certain database format. At the moment I am trying to figure out if bug reports reports can be stored directly in the osm database using standard nodes and tags. The only problem I see with that are comments and attachments on bug reports which probably need to be managed in an extra data struture. I think such an approach would be much more flexible and osm like. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi! Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: The problem with the notesapi branch is not that it's the same database but just that it takes the wrong approach to doing things within that database. For the record my preference would very much be for this to be a rails based system within the current database. I am definitely in favour of a rails based system, too. When you said within the current database did you mean implementing it using nodes and ways or just placing some more tables within the current database? Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi! Bernhard Zwischenbrugger [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: What about defining the API first? Yes, at least before starting some serious programming. My basic idea for the api was to allow to add, search/filter, and modify bug reports through a RESTful controller. The search/filter output should be able to provide rss feeds to enable watching an area for changes and new bugs. I haven't really thought about email or jabber notifications. At the moment I am just thinking of hooking some notification classes into the main api. These can then send out what ever type of notification is requested (text messages on your mobile depending on your current location?). And before defining the API we need the use cases. I tried to put some use cases on the proposal page already. Feel free to add more (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bugtracker_proposal). An other thing I would like to see are bug reports in XMPP (Jabber) Network. Think about a map that shows you a new report without polling. People could discuss immediately in a small chat window about this bug. Scalability shouldn't be a problem with XMPP. Such a system might be an interesting job to set up. It could probably be implemented as a transport for jabber that impersonates each bug report with a new user. Everyone who has added one of these users to their roster gets all messages other people send to this user. Another option would be some multi-user chat but I cannot really image how to do this. Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Christoph Böhme wrote: That sounds good. I will see at the weekend if it really is a piece of cake. Would it be possible to reuse and extend the client-side code from osb for a web-based client-side interface? Before you get all cranked up writing something new, be sure to check out the notes API branch in SVN, where something OSB-like has been attempted in rails already. I don't know by whom and what the status is but I'm sure you will find out. Thanks, I will have a look at it. I did a bit to much mapping at the weekend and only managed to install the rails port. However, at the moment I am a bit confused anyway and not sure what I am going to implement. Especially it would not help anyone if bug reports contain different information depending which user interface was used to add them to the database. Just imagine the situation where a user adds a bug through the web interface and a mapper requests the bugs with JOSM. Both pieces of software need to use the same model of information in the report and the same concept of how to process the bug report. This is very short-sighted - coming from someone who has worked with OSM! Who are you to know in advance what cool ideas the writers of bug tracking software might have? Just because you cannot think of anything beyond severity, class and comment doesn't mean nobody else can. Let the writers of software decide, do not constrain them by your limited imagination. If someone comes up with a cool new tag the makes reporting and handling bugs much easier, then let him do that and write his own cool interface for it. If it works well then others will copy the idea. By postulating that everyone will have to work with the smallest common denominator, you are killing off creativity. It's ok to have a few suggested standard attributes like severity and so on, but never close the door to enhancements. I should have excepted this reply ;-) and I have to admit I was quite focused on developing just a bugtracker and nothing more. Though, I did not assume I could write the ultimate bug tracking application that would never need to be extended or accompanied by other tools. My argument was basically that changes will not happen as often in a bug tracker as they do for mapping. So, I assumed it would be sufficient to be able to change the table definitions in the database if new ideas pop up. But after thinking about this for a while now I can actually see no advantage of structured bug reports compared to tagged ones. So, let's go for the tagging approach! There is only one (technical) question remaining: If we use the same tagging scheme we could as well store the bug reports directly in the main database instead of setting up additional tables. The only problems I can see with this are: - Notifications when new bugs are added - How to handle file attachments (through an additional api?) - Changesets in api 0.6 (I do not like the idea of creating a new changeset for every single bug) Perhaps this questions should better be asked on dev? Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Xav [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Christoph Böhme a écrit : Would it be possible to reuse and extend the client-side code from osb for a web-based client-side interface? If it is a moral question : of course. If it is a technical question : 50% of the code has to be rewriten. Fine, it would at the very least give us something to start with. But when I proposed the use of tags, I thought about the clients-developper : - I want the simplier interface with only lat/lon/date, two bug states, and a text. I do not want a crapy interface with 30 text areas and 60 combo-boxes - Someone will desire to add a zoom level for each bug, the email of the authors, and three bug states - Someone else will want a reference to the OSM data, the diameter of the area that the bug describes, the age of the mother of the author, etc. The tag=value schema does all this. And, as the OSM end-user clients (like Mapnik, [EMAIL PROTECTED], routing softwares), there are only small pieces of the data that are rendered depending of the choice of the rendered. As I wrote earlier, I made my mind up about the tagging scheme and I think it is probably the best solution. I do not think that it would be the best idea to put images in the database besides it is technically possible with a classical database ; I do not know about OSM database. An URL to a solid file seems to me much more efficient. True. It only means that there need to be an additional api for uploading files which works smoothly together with the main api. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Christoph Böhme wrote: That sounds good. I will see at the weekend if it really is a piece of cake. Would it be possible to reuse and extend the client-side code from osb for a web-based client-side interface? Before you get all cranked up writing something new, be sure to check out the notes API branch in SVN, where something OSB-like has been attempted in rails already. I don't know by whom and what the status is but I'm sure you will find out. Thanks, I will have a look at it. I did a bit to much mapping at the weekend and only managed to install the rails port. However, at the moment I am a bit confused anyway and not sure what I am going to implement. Especially it would not help anyone if bug reports contain different information depending which user interface was used to add them to the database. Just imagine the situation where a user adds a bug through the web interface and a mapper requests the bugs with JOSM. Both pieces of software need to use the same model of information in the report and the same concept of how to process the bug report. This is very short-sighted - coming from someone who has worked with OSM! Who are you to know in advance what cool ideas the writers of bug tracking software might have? Just because you cannot think of anything beyond severity, class and comment doesn't mean nobody else can. Let the writers of software decide, do not constrain them by your limited imagination. If someone comes up with a cool new tag the makes reporting and handling bugs much easier, then let him do that and write his own cool interface for it. If it works well then others will copy the idea. By postulating that everyone will have to work with the smallest common denominator, you are killing off creativity. It's ok to have a few suggested standard attributes like severity and so on, but never close the door to enhancements. I should have excepted this reply ;-) and I have to admit I was quite focused on developing just a bugtracker and nothing more. Though, I did not assume I could write the ultimate bug tracking application that would never need to be extended or accompanied by other tools. My argument was basically that changes will not happen as often in a bug tracker as they do for mapping. So, I assumed it would be sufficient to be able to change the table definitions in the database if new ideas pop up. But after thinking about this for a while now I can actually see no advantage of structured bug reports compared to tagged ones. So, let's go for the tagging approach! There is only one (technical) question remaining: If we use the same tagging scheme we could as well store the bug reports directly in the main database instead of setting up additional tables. The only problems I can see with this are: - Notifications when new bugs are added - How to handle file attachments (through an additional api?) - Changesets in api 0.6 (I do not like the idea of creating a new changeset for every single bug) Perhaps this questions should better be asked on dev? Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Just a follow up to my last message: I did a bit of research on the osm software stack yesterday evening and I think implementing a genuine map bugtracker isn't more work than adapting bugzilla. This is basically because the most important part of the map bugtracker is the user interface. And that has to be rewritten in both cases. The rest consists only of some database tables and a RESTful controller to add, edit, and query bugs in the database and return them in different formats (e.g. XML, JSON, RSS). I recently started to work with Pylons which is claims to be very similar to Rails. From this experience I expect the job of writing a bugtracker-controller to be not very difficult. I will try to install the rails-port on my computer at the weekend and have a look at it. For the user interface side it might be possible to user the current osb code as a starting point. It would be nice if we could decide on one solution instead of implementing two competing ones. So, it would be good to have a look at the advantages and disadvantages of a bugzilla and a rails-port solution and decide then which one fits best. Perhaps which should also ask the software developers how they feel about moving from trac to bugzilla. This seemed to be one of your main points for using bugzilla. Christoph Christoph Böhme [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hi! Steffen Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Am Donnerstag, den 27.11.2008, 15:16 + schrieb Christoph Böhme: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bugtracker_proposal Hey great work! Thanks! I already modified the software-bug classifications, statuses of Bugzilla, due to the needs of a MapBugTracker. Do we have some perl programmers around here? I am more into python ... I could need some help to adapt the slippy map scripts to Bugzilla. It's not as hard as it might sound. Bugzilla owns a XML-RPC backend which we can use... This sounds quite handy and like a clean interface. However, Richard's comment about the complexity of writing a new bugtracker compared to adapting one for mapping still makes me think. At the moment it looks like as if we have to replace the current user interface of bugzilla with a completely new one that is suitable for mapping. The original user interface won't be of much use for a map bugtracker (I personally would always want to see where the bugs are). I am wondering how much code there is in a bugtracker which is independent from the user interface. Basically it boils down to the question if we write a new interface how many parts of bugzilla will we actually use? And will these parts fit well into a map bugtracker? Bugzilla has an incredible amount of features but to me they seem to be made very much for software developer teams where only a relatively small number of people is actually fixing bugs. This is quite different to the osm community where several thousand people can possibly solve bugs. I thinks this makes many of bugzillas features unneccessary or even counterproductive if they were used in the osm community. I really do not want to put you off from adapting bugzilla to openstreetmap but at the moment I cannot see what advantages we would get from using bugzilla compared to creating something specific for osm. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Douglas Furlong [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: 2008/11/28 Rory McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 27/11/08 18:18, Steven Le Roux wrote: Yeah I like it in theory but can we please not refer to it as a bug? That's a way to technical term. How about Report a problem with this map (once they are zoomed in enough), or something similar. May be it is my technical leaning but I would interpret Report a problem with this map to be a technical problem. How about Report an inaccuracy with this map, or some thing along the lines that makes it fairly clear that we are concerned about mapping accuracy. I add Something wrong on this map? -- Report it! and the short and simple Report error to the pool of sentences to choose from. Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Matt Amos [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: can i plug http://www.redmine.org/ ? its a very nice bit of software and we may be able to steal the bug-tracking bit of it. It looks indeed very neat and since it is written on Rails it might be easier to include in osm than another bugtracker. But the server side part of the map bugtracker is probably the smallest part and the client side has to be rewritten anyway. So, it might be easier to write some server side code that really works for a map bugtracker instead of trying to fix something. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Douglas Furlong [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I think the level to which Fedora went is far beyond what we would need, but setting up an LDAP directory to store authentication credentials would be fairly straight forward. I'd be willing to spend time to look at implementing some thing like this, if their is a desire from the community. +1 Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi, Xav [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: With my experience in developing OSB, I would say that Christoph just resumed it quite right : the server side software is a piece of cake and should propose a simple API to insert/edit/delete and view the data (JSON, RSS, GPX). That sounds good. I will see at the weekend if it really is a piece of cake. Would it be possible to reuse and extend the client-side code from osb for a web-based client-side interface? Because everybody has its own idea of what should be specified in the data (bug status, email, classification, age of john's mother), why not to copy OSM : tags. Think of it... I thought about using a general tag scheme too, but I think its not a good solution for a bugtracker. Bug reports are mostly free-form text already and contain only structured information to remind people to supply certain bits of information and to handle processing of the bug reports. So, I do not think bug reporters will ever feel the desire add tags to their bug reports. In fact, it would probably confuse most people. Developers of user interfaces for the bug tracker might however want to have more structured information. But this is probably only a small group of people who can decide which information a bug report should contain. Especially it would not help anyone if bug reports contain different information depending which user interface was used to add them to the database. Just imagine the situation where a user adds a bug through the web interface and a mapper requests the bugs with JOSM. Both pieces of software need to use the same model of information in the report and the same concept of how to process the bug report. Additionally, I think defining a bug report format is not like defining a database structure to describe the whole world but more like finding one for describing a residential street. Implementing a general tag scheme just postpones the decision of what to put in a bug report in my opinion. The server side already exists : it's basically OSM database without ways, with a guest account, and accepting long string values (the text users could add). That is really attractive. The only problems I can see here (apart from that we still should try to define a bug report format) are that annotations to a bug report like comments, images and attachments cannot be stored in the osm database (as far as I know). Another question is how the introduction of changesets in the api 0.6 affects very small edits. Creating a changeset for every bug which is added to the database might turn out to be very inefficient memorywise. A lot of clients already exists : JOSM, Potlatch, Mapnik, trillions of scripts, etc. But they still need interfaces to handle the bug reports in a user friendly way. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi, after the two latest discussions on the list I sat down and put together a little proposal for an improved map-bug tracker: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bugtracker_proposal This is *not* meant to be a decision to write a new bugtracker from scratch instead of improving openstreetbugs or using some bugzilla based solution. The proposal shall only support us to figure out what we except from a bug tracker for maps and how a good user interface should look like. Once we know how the bug tracker should look like, we can see how it is best implemented. I did not find a place in the wiki were to put this type of proposals. Map features does not seem to be the right place. So, I only linked it from my user page. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about the wiki structure can find a nice place for it. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi! Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I'd vote for making the OSB as simple as possible - as soon as you require a login or filling in some drop downs we'll loose Aunt Tilly with her good local knowledge. I am completely with you here. However, while Aunt Tilly wants a no-frills interface mappers who are dealing with bugs need a bit more functionality. There might be also people willing and able to provide more detailed bug reports. They should have the option to do so. IMO, the problem is to put these three things together. I think, it is quite clear that we need an Aunt Tilly-interface to the bugtracker with the following features: - no registration required - only a single text field to describe the error - optional email address if the reporter wishes to be contacted So, basically what openstreetbugs is now. Though, I see no point why things behind this interface could be a bit more advanced. Since only mappers will use them. I also see no reason why the Aunt Tilly-interface should not contain a link saying advanced which shows some more options (like classification and so on). Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for a map-bug tracker (Openstreetbugs)
Hi! Steffen Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Am Donnerstag, den 27.11.2008, 15:16 + schrieb Christoph Böhme: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bugtracker_proposal Hey great work! Thanks! I already modified the software-bug classifications, statuses of Bugzilla, due to the needs of a MapBugTracker. Do we have some perl programmers around here? I am more into python ... I could need some help to adapt the slippy map scripts to Bugzilla. It's not as hard as it might sound. Bugzilla owns a XML-RPC backend which we can use... This sounds quite handy and like a clean interface. However, Richard's comment about the complexity of writing a new bugtracker compared to adapting one for mapping still makes me think. At the moment it looks like as if we have to replace the current user interface of bugzilla with a completely new one that is suitable for mapping. The original user interface won't be of much use for a map bugtracker (I personally would always want to see where the bugs are). I am wondering how much code there is in a bugtracker which is independent from the user interface. Basically it boils down to the question if we write a new interface how many parts of bugzilla will we actually use? And will these parts fit well into a map bugtracker? Bugzilla has an incredible amount of features but to me they seem to be made very much for software developer teams where only a relatively small number of people is actually fixing bugs. This is quite different to the osm community where several thousand people can possibly solve bugs. I thinks this makes many of bugzillas features unneccessary or even counterproductive if they were used in the osm community. I really do not want to put you off from adapting bugzilla to openstreetmap but at the moment I cannot see what advantages we would get from using bugzilla compared to creating something specific for osm. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-) There is an openstreetbug-plugin for josm. It works by parsing the javascript responses from the openstreetbugs-website. So, there is already some kind of API which makes it possible to use openstreetbugs in other application. I would be happy to contribute to a redevelopment of openstreetbugs. A while ago I started to use it extensively mostly for notes to myself and to-do items. By using osb in these new ways, I began to miss a number of features like assigning a bug to someone, keeping old bugs for reference (especially if they turned out to be wrong), and having different types or importances of bugs. I would also love to see an Report Bug tab next to the edit tab on openstreetmap.org. Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
