Buddha Buck wrote -
Based on the
first note medody idea that's been bandied around, that would imply
that the melody was [d6]2B2B2, which would sound like:
V:1
d6
V:2
z2B2B2
which is rather too polyphoneous as a melody for my tastes.
Well I'm sorry about that because that's precisely what I
At 10:13 AM 08-12-2002 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote:
Jack Campin wrote -
OK, I'm with you and it's growing on me. It would be necessary for
something I saw the other day which would need to be written
[d6z2]2[B2G2][B2G2] although there would still need to be intelligence
within
Frankly Laurie I can't be bothered to argue the minutiae
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Ooops! Clicked the wrong button. Starting again -
Frankly Laurie, I can't be bothered to argue the minutiae of which way is
best. What I consider most important is that we have a concensus. We seemed
to have one before you came back from Sidmouth. If you can persuade
everybody else that
[shrug] Well he asked for examples...
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't be bothered to argue the minutiae...
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]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
something else that's common in piano and
guitar music: a hanging tie to the right of a note that means Let
this note sound for an unspecified time. There's no way that I know
to say
Laurie Griffiths wrote:
Shortest determines length works because you can always add a rest to
delay things, but we don't have negative rests to make things happen sooner.
e.g. [G4B]zcd (melody is Bzcd)
Or even an invisible rest [G4B]xcd in some cases.
Melody note first pretty much demands
Henrik Norbeck writes:
| Laurie Griffiths wrote:
| Melody note first pretty much demands shortest determines length (or
| else some new mechanism such as numbers after the close bracket) because the
| melody note may be longer than the accompaniment.
|
| Very good point.
Indeed. It sounds
: is about. Look at the Subject line. The topic is abc bracketed
chord
: notation. The melody note in a chord is the one that a
monphonic
: player plays. There's nothing deeper than that.
I started only with this topic because I saw there was some
applications which begun to use a
Laurie Griffiths wrote:
Can someone explain why first note determines length is better than
shortest determines length. A counter example that doesn;t work the other
way would be nice, especially if it were not contrived.
Hear, hear! Can anyone find us that example?
So two of the most used*
Henrik Norbert wrote -
So two of the most used* abc programs, Muse and AbcMus, both
use the shortest determines length method, which seems to
work well. I've had no complaints so far. Have you, Laurie? Do we
really have to change it?
But a few days ago he wrote -
Now that I understand what
Well, I can think of a simple example of how one might use this:
[A4G2E2]2[F2D2]
This would have a 4-count melody note above the [G2E2][F2D2] chord
change. With L:1/8, the first chord could be drawn on a single stem,
with an open oval for the A4 note and filled ovals for the G2 and E2
There is a lot of abc that would give strange results from the
shortest-note rule. Recently someone pointed out that some of my
files have notation like [A3G] with no length for the second note.
There's a reason for this.
It doesn't matter what the reason is, there can't be so
Jack Campin wrote -
OK, I'm with you and it's growing on me. It would be necessary for
something I saw the other day which would need to be written
[d6z2]2[B2G2][B2G2] although there would still need to be intelligence
within the programme to recognise that the two Bs were not melody notes.
Jack writes:
| There is a lot of abc that would give strange results from the
| shortest-note rule. Recently someone pointed out that some of my
| files have notation like [A3G] with no length for the second note.
| There's a reason for this.
|
| It doesn't matter what the
Muse as released does *not* use the shortest note wins rule. In fact it's
pretty restrictive which can make it a pain for keyboard users. At the
moment I'm doing a major rewrite (called Muse2) which is aimed at
1. Choral singers (better control over playback - done)
2. Keyboard players (live
Laurie wrote:
| ... In fixing the restrictions on within-staff,
| within-voice polyphony - and in particular in trying to type in various
| keyboard parts (The Messiah being the biggest) I found that the rule that
| seemed to work was shortest note wins. So that is the rule used within
| the
Jack Campin wrote:
Or did I get the semantics wrong? I'd expect [d6z2]2 to mean the same
as [d12z4] (whatever *that* meant)
Sorry, you are wrong. If the ]2 is just multiplied to the length
of the notes inside the chord, there would be no benefit of the [..]2
notation.
You can write better the
John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Starling wrote -
: is about. Look at the Subject line. The topic is abc bracketed chord
: notation. The melody note in a chord is the one that a monphonic
: player plays. There's nothing deeper than that.
Alright, I just wanted to get that clear.
Or did I get the semantics wrong? I'd expect [d6z2]2 to mean the same
as [d12z4] (whatever *that* meant)
Sorry, you are wrong. If the ]2 is just multiplied to the length
of the notes inside the chord, there would be no benefit of the [..]2
notation.
There is a considerable benefit:
I really think we're wasting a lot of time on this.
The only use for it is to notate an odd chord or brief passage
of double-stopping in a piece which is otherwise monophonic.
Anything more complex than this should always be notated using
multivoice abc, which lets you define absolutely any
Bryan wrote I know you've been away Laurie but this has been discussed at
some length for
over a week now. A variety of people have given their reasons and examples.
Perhaps if you would care to read the whole thread you could come up with
specific reasons why you disagree and why you think
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Starling wrote -
:
: I'm afraid that you have come in part way through this discussion. The
: proposal is that each individual note should have its specified duration
: which left the question open as to what defined the overall length of the
: chord, i.e. time
Laurie wrote:
I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah. The voices are of course
monophonic, but piano accompaniments have all sorts of nasties. I have
found that shortest note determines when next note starts works well. You
can always add a rest or two if that's not what you wanted.
Starling wrote:
Almost. I had one question. What is a melody note? I have always
known melodies as defined by context, and subject to much
interpretation, rather than being defined by a specific type of
notation. Two different people can call a section of music melody or
accompaniment, and
Laurie:
I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah.
Phil:
If you're doing something that complicated you have to be using multiple
voices anyway...to represent the two hands unambiguously.
Well Muse has a serious problem in using multiple voices for a piano part.
(I would guess Bryan's
Laurie wrote:
Well Muse has a serious problem in using multiple voices for a piano part.
(I would guess Bryan's Noteworthy to ABC converter would have the same
problem). The problem is how do you decide what counts as a voice? This
is from near the end of His Yoke is easy and his Burthen is
On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Phil Taylor wrote:
Starling wrote:
Almost. I had one question. What is a melody note? I have always
known melodies as defined by context, and subject to much
interpretation, rather than being defined by a specific type of
notation. Two different people can call a
Starling wrote -
| ... I had one question. What is a melody note? I have always
| known melodies as defined by context, and subject to much
| interpretation, rather than being defined by a specific type of
| notation. Two different people can call a section of music melody or
| accompaniment,
Starling wrote -
... I had one question. What is a melody note? I have always
known melodies as defined by context, and subject to much
interpretation, rather than being defined by a specific type of
notation. Two different people can call a section of music melody or
accompaniment, and
Is it legal abc to have a rest in a chord?
For instance:
X:0
T:Example
L:1/8
M:4/2
K:G
[zG8 B8 d8]gfe dcBA G8
Failing that we really do need the number on the end like
X:1
T:Example
L:1/8
M:4/2
K:G
[G8 B8 d8]1gfe dcBA G8
Note that one might need single note chords with a length.
This leads
- Original Message -
From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Bryan Creer wrote:
Henrik Norbeck wrote -
The alternatives highest note and first-listed note will cause
problems
Bryan Creer wrote:
However, I am a bit confused by -
So if you need the A4 as first listed note in the chord
for some other reason (e.g. to indicate the melody),
you can give the chord an other length whith ]2
I had assumed the number after the chord was intended to
represent its
Starling (?) wrote -
It might be better to have the duration of the chord
equal to the shortest duration within the chord. That way
[L:1/4][A4G2E2] is implicitly equal to a half note, just as in
keyboard music the shortest note in the chord is considered the length
before the next note begins.
Bryan Creer wrote:
| Starling (?) wrote -
|
| It might be better to have the duration of the chord
| equal to the shortest duration within the chord. That way
| [L:1/4][A4G2E2] is implicitly equal to a half note, just as in
| keyboard music the shortest note in the chord is considered the length
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Starling (?) wrote -
:
: Whoops! Back to the dawing board.
Well that'll teach me for jumping in the middle of a discussion. :)
I was going to bring up the subject anyway, so I figured what the
heck? I'll just hop in here. Go easy on me though, I have no idea
Starling wrote -
We should probably establish that there is a difference between
[G2A4E2] and [G2A2E2] if we're going to standardize by the rule first
listed note = melody note. Something like The melody note in a
chord determines the default duration, but durations specified
within the chord
John Chambers wrote -
Well, I can think of a simple example of how one might use this:
[A4G2E2]2[F2D2]
This would have a 4-count melody note above the [G2E2][F2D2] chord
change. With L:1/8, the first chord could be drawn on a single stem,
with an open oval for the A4 note and filled ovals
John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Well, I can think of a simple example of how one might use this:
: [A4G2E2]2[F2D2]
: This would have a 4-count melody note above the [G2E2][F2D2] chord
: change. With L:1/8, the first chord could be drawn on a single stem,
: with an open oval for
Bryan Creer :
I've gone for highest note prevails in the counting of the times
so you
can do things like -
X:1
T:The Cotillion
C:Trad (Bosham Band)
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
[G4D4][d4B,4]|[B2D4]AB [G2B,4]AB|[c2E4]B2[A2D4]G2|[FD4]GAF
[D3A,3]D|
I've seen that Skink happily supports this notation too.
Bryan Creer :
I've gone for highest note prevails in the counting of the times
so you
can do things like -
X:1
T:The Cotillion
C:Trad (Bosham Band)
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
[G4D4][d4B,4]|[B2D4]AB [G2B,4]AB|[c2E4]B2[A2D4]G2|[FD4]GAF
[D3A,3]D|
The trouble with this is that there are an awful lot of
Phil Taylor wrote -
BarFly handles chords with notes of unequal
length by padding out the shorter notes with rests when playing,
so it's longest note prevails.
But Jack Campin (a BarFly user) had said -
but the semantics I'd need in every instance
where I've wanted it would be that the
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