disputes.
Providing some mechanized intelligence is a service and a hope for mankind's
future sanity, and the only threat that I see is that some true believers
in the truly absurd will truly get ground under AGI's wheels, as they truly
should.
Any thoughts on all this?
Steve Richfield
Stephen,
On 4/10/08, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message
From: Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:58:09 PM
Subject: [agi] Comments from a lurker...
[snip] BTW, the principles behind Dr. Eliza
on
what the perfect AI programming language would be like, but that is a
different subject...
Steve Richfield
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, when the tools are in place to fully
utilize the sorts of things that you are looking to develop.
Steve Richfield
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exclusional reasons include:
1. Where are your paying customers?
2. What prior University research is this built upon?
3. Where is your intellectual property protection?
4. Where am I going to find other investors with whom to share the risk?
Steve Richfield
Josh,
On 4/12/08, J Storrs Hall, PhD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Friday 11 April 2008 03:17:21 pm, Steve Richfield wrote:
Steve: If you're saying that your system builds a model of its world
of
discourse as a set of non-linear ODEs (which is what Systems Dynamics
is
bout) then I
that extraction) and we certainly don't
need any more here, on what should be a safe forum to express our ideas.
Ben Goertzel, are you awake here? This one is in YOUR court.
Steve Richfield
-- Original Message -
*From:* Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* agi@v2.listbox.com
when
you finally wake up as discussed above.
Steve Richfield
==
- Original Message -
*From:* Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* agi@v2.listbox.com
*Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:42 PM
*Subject:* Re: [agi] Comments from a lurker...
Mike,
On 4/12/08, Mike
and a high cholesterol
you probably wouldn't have lived much longer anyway, so why should they pay
for any lost income? Only a month ago I saw this sort of crap happen to a
severely injured lady I know (different details, same idea) - and it
probably cost her several hundred thousand dollars!
Steve
Josh,
On 4/15/08, J Storrs Hall, PhD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Monday 14 April 2008 04:56:18 am, Steve Richfield wrote:
... My present
efforts are now directed toward a new computer architecture that may be
more
of interest to AGI types here than Dr. Eliza. This new architecture
applications.
Steve Richfield
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of absolute
brilliance.
Thanks for your comment.
Steve Richfield
==
On 4/15/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I kind of disagree with this attitude, too conformist and over assuming.
I've seen too many flaked out freakazoids have tiny grains of absolute
brilliance sprinkled
Ben,
On 4/16/08, Benjamin Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield said (regarding his Dr Eliza system):
I cannot see ANY argument that it is NOT novel AI. Certainly no one
expressed any such doubts at the WORLDCOMP conferences where it was
presented and demonstrated.
Maybe
Josh,
On 4/15/08, J Storrs Hall, PhD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tuesday 15 April 2008 07:36:56 pm, Steve Richfield wrote:
As I understand things, speed requires low capacitance, which DRAM
requires
higher capacitance, depending on how often you intend to refresh.
However,
refresh
requirements may be well short
of a petaflop.
Of course, this makes a LOT of assumptions that no one has yet bothered to
confirm in the laboratory, and I do NOT want to ignite an estimates war,
so I invite constructive comments from anyone with more recent data than I
have.
Steve Richfield
is a LOT easier. Note that there
are NO expert-entered percentages in the Knowledge.mdb, which seems to
result in BETTER operation because experts almost as often lead things
astray with myths as guide things with overriding wisdom.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
Derek
On 4/16/08, Derek Zahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield, writing about J Storrs Hall:
You sound like the sort that once the things is sort of
roughed out, likes to polish it up and make it as good as possible.
I don't believe your characterization is accurate. You could
they are clicked on. Who the heck uses POP3 with dialup?
Steve Richfield
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lacked for SO long. Hence, view these efforts as a sort of atom-smasher for
understanding reality, rather than just relying on unsupported words in old
dusty books.
Steve Richfield
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that there must be a few poor
souls out there (besides us) who just haven't woke up yet to this very sad
current state of affairs.
Steve Richfield
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wrong.
Have I missed something here?
Steve Richfield
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to
be separately defined in terms that are conducive to implementation.
Steve Richfield
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approximation to what should be expected from evolution.
Steve Richfield
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here who better understands these other groups (you or
Samsonovich?) could provide a paragraph (and hyperlink) about each to aid is
this triage.
Thanks for the info.
Steve Richfield
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Vladimir,
On 4/24/08, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, some situations are more prone to superstitious learning than
others. Religious explanations are a beautiful example of this - where
, but this will probably never be a one
pill fixes all sort of thing. Obviously, as with all things broken, you
must fix whatever is actually broken.
Steve Richfield
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Vladimir,
On 4/24/08, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I agree with you that you can't just consider something to be true or
false based on a few observations, but you DO have to make binary
decisions
(currently rare for RD efforts) to more accurately target the
future market that our competitors will be doomed to miss because of their
lack of research.
Is this the sort of message that you think needs to be conveyed?
Steve Richfield
---
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Archives: http
as novices, making unusual
and apparently stupid moves that I can't quite capitalize on, only to pull
things together later on and soundly beat me. While retrospective
analysis would show them to be brilliant, that would not be my evaluation
early in these games.
Steve Richfield
Matt,
On 5/6/08, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have played tournament chess. However, when faced with a REALLY
GREAT
chess player (e.g. national champion), as I have had the pleasure of
on a
couple of occasions, they at first
component. What is
a LOGICAL goal?!
Steve Richfield
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just as logical
(if not more so)than atheism. Do you agree?
Thank you.
Steve Richfield
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Matt,
On 5/8/08, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/7/08, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/newcombs-proble.html
After many postings on this subject, I still assert that
ANY
this, but which don't work properly with control characters,
UNICODE characters that should be considered to be whitespace (e.g. long
spaces), etc. Clearly, some intelligent humans haven't yet mastered this
algorithm, and ordinary software testing methods have failed to disclose the
remaining bugs.
Steve
fine - and that it is ME who needs debugging.
I wonder how a super duper AGI will even get debugged, once the operation of
the program goes beyond its all-too-human programmers.
Steve Richfield
---
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it would doom the drug companies that now so completely
control all current medical research.
If you know anyone with a lot of money and who wants to do some REAL
research, then please send them my way.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
Archives: http
16th birthday from one of
my patients. I precede any (rare) prescriptions with words like please
request that your medical doctor prescribe the following: knowing that they
will probably just order it over the Internet, etc.
Steve Richfield
==
Steve:
I am right now up against
fixing when there is only one.
Is the above discussion what you were looking for?
Steve Richfield
=
Mike,
On 5/14/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is more or less where I came into this group. You've picked a, if
not the, classic AGI problem. The problem
not perfect (it would have been nice to lance the
abscess), was sufficiently successful to save its life. This serves to
highlight the value of incorrect theories, that they often provide the right
answers in a timely manner, even when for the wrong reasons.
Steve Richfield
. Wouldn't medical insurers have the greatest interest of all in
establishing a super-medical-wiki?
Kaiser would seem to be the PERFECT user for this. However, the present
medical paradigm is SO ingrained in their very structure that I haven (yet)
seen a way past the barriers.
Steve Richfield
.
Thanks.
Steve Richfield
*From:* Steve Richfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2008 9:38 PM
*To:* agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* [agi] Pattern extrapolation as a method requiring limited
intelligence
Hi y'all,
I can still remember an incident when I was just 13
Richard,
On 5/18/08, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield wrote:
I have a headache. I missed my morning coffee.
From this, Dr. Eliza will see a present-tense headache, a present-tense
negated (presumed consumption) of coffee. A link definition would look
Richard,
On 5/18/08, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield wrote:
large snip
With luck we can wring things out at this level. With a little less luck,
a couple of weeks of attempted high-level design will lead you to these same
conclusions. With no luck at all, you
to
process.
Has anyone else done this sort of homework?
Steve Richfield
=
On 5/18/08, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield wrote:
Richard,
On 5/18/08, *Richard Loosemore* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield wrote
open to arguments that I
might not have heard or considered.
Steve Richfield
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Joseph,
On 5/20/08, Joseph Gentle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now, decades later, come the present discussions about patterns,
apparently
advanced along with the same lines of thought that was behind that IQ
test
so
should look at a
common design?
- Keyboard, mouse and display virtual devices as well as extensible
models for people to build their own
I'd be more interested in speech, tactile, and/or genuine 3-D I/O.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
Archives: http
can debug the
disconnect? I will (attempt to) clarify, not to argue my points (again), but
more to explain that I was really saying something different than you
apparently read.
On 5/27/08, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Richfield said:
A useful AGI must be able to rise above its own
by the *true* AGI
believers here.
Does anyone here want to throw a virtual stone?
Steve Richfield
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William,
On 5/27/08, William Pearson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/5/27 Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Systems now crash NOT because of the lack of some whiz-bang technology,
but
because architectural development has been in a state of arrested
development for the last ~35 years
some reason to expect a breakthrough?
Steve Richfield
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.
???
Steve Richfield
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that even if the most minimal goals are achieved,
that an investment here would at minimum produce some VERY valuable lab
equipment. In short, this should be a moneymaker, even if it proves to be a
complete failure for AGI.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
Archives
with adequate funding. By that time, process
improvements would probably allow us to make such systems on single wafers,
at a manufacturing cost of just a few thousand dollars.
Steve Richfield
---
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Vladimir,
On 6/3/08, Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Note that modern processors are ~3 orders of magnitude faster than a
KA10,
and my 10K architecture would provide another 4 orders of magnitude
in their operation, and you probably need to figure out
substantially all ~200 of those tricks to achieve human intelligence. If I
were an investor, this would sure sound pretty scary to me without SOME sort
of insurance like scanning capability, and maybe some simulations.
Steve Richfield
it would have already
evolved during the last ~200 million years, instead of evolving the highly
complex creatures that we now are.
That having been said, I will comment on your posting...
On 6/4/08, J Storrs Hall, PhD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tuesday 03 June 2008 09:54:53 pm, Steve Richfield
can do a perfect job without
such debugging, but having been in the computer business just as long as you
have, I have seen WAY too many problems to ever believe in such miracles.
Steve Richfield
===
On Wednesday 04 June 2008 03:15:36 pm, Steve Richfield wrote:
Josh,
I apparently
operation is
probably NOT enough to design a human-scale AGI from, ESPECIALLY when
paradigm shifting is being done that effectively hides our actual operation.
I believe that more information is necessary, though hopefully not an entire
readout of a brain.
Steve Richfield
on identical twin lab mice showed.
Steve Richfield
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with some gray hair and/or bald spots, WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU
THINKING?
Steve Richfield
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into code. Hence, I am NOT
rejecting the idea of code being intelligent, just the idea of us mere
mortals ever writing and maintaining such code, at least with our present
tools.
Steve Richfield
===
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mike
codes.
Perhaps you could better define what you mean by complexity to obviate my
questions?
Steve Richfield
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doubt the future of any AGI system.
In short, I have produced my demo and presented it to International
audiences at AI conferences, and hereby return this particular ball to your
court.
Steve Richfield
---
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some of
the more valuable goals, but has yet to raise any money, shows that the
world is NOT looking to beat a path to this better mousetrap.
Steve Richfield
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on the author's computer.
Steve Richfield
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provides many
touch points for capability to show whether an AGI is working anything at
all like us.
So yes, cognitive science is alive and well, but probably unusable to
provide a basis for AGI development.
Steve Richfield
---
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information for AGI folks. All I was
saying is that somehow, someone needs to do this work.
Steve Richfield
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of detailed goals. In Iraq there was
near-peace under Saddam Hussein, but we didn't like his methods. I suspect
that reasonable improvements to his methods would have produced far better
results than the U.S. military can ever hope to produce there, given
anything like its present goals.
Steve Richfield
manipulation by AGIs, and hence
new logic will be needed, e.g. reverse reductio ad absurdum. This distorts
the entire optimality discussion.
Steve Richfield
===
On 6/11/08, J. Andrew Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 11, 2008, at 5:56 AM, Mark Waser wrote:
It is an open question
appetizers with their lobster
tail dinners.
Steve Richfield
=
On 6/11/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/science/10plant.html?pagewanted=2_r=1ei=5087emen=484cb
A really interesting article about plant sensing. A bit O/T here but I'm
in attendance. This of course was an
illustration of the military fire control issue.
Am I missing something here?
Steve Richfield
=
On 6/12/08, Jiri Jelinek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:36 AM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... and here we have
World Order, rather than
simply negotiating reasonable resolutions.
Steve Richfield
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, on the other hand, would
probably be your ideal customer. Maybe I could trade a repaired AGI for one
of Dave's old cars? However, I can't see dedicating my life to making Dave
happy in his indolence.
Steve Richfield
---
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those win-sin solutions.
Statement 2 though has promise...
Yes - once you drill down into religious disputes, they pretty much fall
apart.
Steve Richfield
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intelligence will resolve all (as many/most here seem to
believe) IMHO is a rookie error that leads nowhere useful.
Steve Richfield
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of the
code goes to support speech I/O, the USENET interface, etc., and NOT its
core problem solving ability.
Steve Richfield
===
On 6/21/08, Abram Demski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To be honest, I am not completely satisfied with my conclusion on the
post you refer to. I'm not so sure now
useful.
Steve Richfield
---
I don't think that most people in this group think that machine
intelligence will resolve all the remaining problems in designing artificial
intelligence, although I have talked to people who feel that way, and the
lack of discussion
empirical evidence because of lack of proof or political
incorrectness?
Steve Richfield
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are correct. Also, I had many fewer employers, as I had a LOT of repeat
business. These would sometimes bring me in for a couple of weeks of shock
treatment when they felt it was needed.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303
already been written about, it would
sure be nice to fast-forward over past writings.
Steve Richfield
=
- Original Message
From: Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:53:07 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Approximations
might drop
in and request a copy of the software and post it here.
Steve Richfield
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in mind. Of course,
future AGIs are doomed to fail at such efforts, just as people have failed
for the last million years or so.
Steve Richfield
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now have
access to, because of this multiplicative effect.
IMHO, illogical researchers were looking for an illogical (to them)
phenomenon that was in fact completely logical.
Jim's God
Steve Richfield
===
On 6/27/08, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jim's God was obviously
as on this forum, presume that more intelligence is needed to
solve more difficult problems, when relatively simple programs can exceed
any potential unguided intelligence, at least in some/many interesting
domains (e.g. health/medicine).
Steve Richfield
---
agi
not be
familiar with, e.g. the type of cause-and-effect chain link that the
described phenomenon represents.
This would all be SO simple to do...
Steve Richfield
---
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of things that are VERY applicable to our present
economy. Summarizing: The U.S. won't be around very much longer, so there is
little reason for Al Queda to waste any more martyrs attacking it.
Steve Richfield
===
Isn't this sort of behavior completely logical? If you try something new
).
However, the advanced methods that I advocate have only been in existence
for a few years, and apparently no State Department employees understand
them yet. Hence, Reverse Reductio ad Absurdum has yet to be tested.
Steve Richfield
Mike,
WOW, you covered a LOT of territory
to really start this discussion?
Steve Richfield
===
On 7/3/08, William Pearson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry about the long thread jack
2008/7/3 Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:05 PM, William Pearson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Because it is dealing
Hi All,
Is anyone else here going to WORLDCOMP08? That is in Las Vegas from July
14-17. It would sure be nice to discuss things at talking speed rather than
typing speed.
Steve Richfield
---
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at this thing all
wrong. Can anyone here help?
Steve Richfield
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by various theories, and with producing physical diagrams of
brains to guide theoretical efforts.
At present, there is not one dollar of funding for either of these efforts,
so I expect to stay at the 2 micron point for the foreseeable future.
Steve Richfield
On 7/8/08, Mike Tintner
belong on this
list?
Steve Richfield
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William,
On 7/7/08, William Pearson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/7/3 Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
William and Vladimir,
IMHO this discussion is based entirely on the absence of any sort of
interface spec. Such a spec is absolutely necessary for a large AGI
project
to ever
quantitative analysis, which in
turn awaits improved laboratory equipment and methods.
Steve Richfield
On 7/9/08, Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mike, et al,
When you look at the actual experiments upon which what we think we know
is based, the information is SO thin
was my
situation. Having now helped several others through this, using successively
improving methods, I have learned to control the risks to health to a
reasonably acceptable level.
Steve Richfield
---
agi
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Thanks a LOT for your thoughts here.
Steve Richfield
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agi
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this, and the retired math professor would have a better idea as to
exactly what needed to be optimized.
Steve Richfield
=
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben,
On 7/22/08, Benjamin Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You
PC-like analysis.
Steve Richfield
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Abram,
On 7/22/08, Abram Demski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Problem Statement: What are the optimal functions, derived from
real-world observations of past
Abram,
All good points. Detailed comments follow. First I must take a LONG drag,
because I must now blow a lot of smoke...
On 7/22/08, Abram Demski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Steve Richfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Abram,
On 7/22/08, Abram Demski [EMAIL
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