TypePad failed to save, leaving me with a draft from 11 hours earlier.
I gritted my teeth and recreated it.
I hope it's not less coherent as a result, but probably.
On Mar 26, 10:22 pm, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:
Good stuff Bob.. hurry up with your blog.. its empty right now. ;)
Thanks. But it slipped my mind as I was writing it that immediately
deleting the new app is going to be a loser, because it'll refund your
payment.
You'll have to arrange to do that at another time. Or not, and live
with the clutter. Or simply use your .apk as the storage for your
characters.
I am sure they will but I wouldn't hold my breath on WHEN. There was a
lengthy thread going about two weeks ago on here about improving the market.
I just skimmed it to follow along but they wanted to do a petition and
everything. I am not sure what happened to that. I would bet money that
google
Yes I know. Warren brought that up. But the game changer was when I found
out that I can remove:
category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /
from the manifet.xml which hides the new app's from the user (hides the
clutter) and also doesn't allow the user to start it them on their
Got an idea for the deletion of add-on toons for you. Use a simple sqllite
db on the device... when your main app finds/installs a toon, log a little
date in the db (or some other way). Every time your main app starts up, just
scan for any rows.. if any are there, check the timestamps... if it's
Hmm.. just looked up google checkout.. turns out paypal and google checkout
charge .30 + 2.9%.. so you're still stuck losing 30% for a $1 fee.. actually
2.9% more. So what, .33 per toon. Still.. not a big deal if it's utilized..
making 67% or so is great, especially if more and more people buy
We must be on the same wave length because I am ready doing what you just
explained. :-)
When in install app (I started calling them modules in my code) is download
I check the db, if that character is there then it updates that character
in the DB if it is not then inserts the character info.
Good point Kevin
Although we can't just look at this from the coder implementation point of
view (my website, using paypal, market place etc). We have to think how
people buy crap.
If the highest chance that they will have an account with Market place then
that will makes a big difference for
Let me point out that the code that I posted doesn't delete without
user confirmation. It just takes the user to the system's delete this
application screen under Manage applications, where they can choose
to delete or not.
I don't know of a standard way to delete an application without user
You don't get notified BEFORE an uninstall, just after.
I think I may have a solution for you. I'm having trouble parsing this
thread; it may overlap with other suggestions here.
This suggestion is based on what I've done for the Free/Pro versions
of my SmartVolume app. (Only the Free is up at
Great discussion you have going on here. I've been following it from
the sidelines, but I do have a few things to add.
First, I had confirmation from a Google employee - informally, over
lunch at one of the Developer Lab events, but from a Googler
nonetheless - that it's absolutely OK to link
@Bob Kerns - thanks for the excellent post!
From what I understand, you set up a receiver so that the browser
starts up whenever the upgrade package is installed. But I thought
only services (not activities) should be started from receivers???
Sorry, I'm a bit rusty on this side of Android. And
On Mar 26, 9:50 am, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
From what I understand, you set up a receiver so that the browser
starts up whenever the upgrade package is installed. But I thought
only services (not activities) should be started from receivers???
Starting an Activity from an
On Mar 26, 11:54 am, String sterling.ud...@googlemail.com wrote:
If your add-on app doesn't have a LAUNCHER intent, the system won't
give the user the option to open it, from anywhere.
I thought using category INFO also allows the user to click Open in
the Market app once the downloaded app has
We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but that’s
great because
this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.
Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I admit I
had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few questions
I have a sort of twist idea to the market problem... not sure this can be
done, but I think it could be possible.
Imagine you have an app that allows for virtual goods. You have dozens of
goods for sale. Even better, you have an open-ended API that allows OTHER
developers/users to create goods
That is a great idea and out of the box (which is good) building a .apk
dynamically.
The Market place does not yet have the ability to search per app (which I
agree if add on's start to come more common that will be needed). The way I
am planning on getting around that (hopefully temporarily) is
Its within a day usually faster most of the time from what I have read
chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
That is a great idea and out of the box (which is good) building a .apk
dynamically.
The Market place does not yet have the ability to search per app (which I
agree if add on's start to
I believe most apps are available within a few hours to a day at most.. from
what I've read anyway. Not 100% sure tho. I am a little bummed that google
hasn't made any attempt to better the market app. There is sooo much I would
do to improve it. It could be far better than the iPhone market app.
My experience was, I published it, went to my device, located it, and
downloaded it.
But I don't know if they have a distributed infrastructure that may
impose delays before it reaches everyone. I've noticed that it can
take a while for comments I posted from the Market app to actually
appear.
I
Good stuff Bob.. hurry up with your blog.. its empty right now. ;)
I am happy to hear that at lest someone from google has acknowledged that it
is perfectly fine to do in-app virtual goods, etc. I plan to roll that
ability into my service soon as I figure out how to handle paypal, credit
cards
So has anyone found or used google checkout, or paypal, directly within your
app, as opposed to sending a user to a web page to log in to paypal and so
forth? I am curious how anyone has integrated checkout right into their app
without the user being taken away from the app itself. I haven't
I thought I'd briefly jump in on this discussion. I'm looking into providing
a virtual currency/in-app billing solution for ZappMarket. ZappMarket is
focused on paid app developers.
I'd like to talk with developers (either on-list or you can send me an
e-mail) about what your specific needs are
Shane
Kevin and I have been heavily involved in this because we both require
in-app billing for virtual items within our apps.
Actually this morning (as Kevin knows) I am trying to decide which way to
go.
I can either have my app access my website, require my users to enter
account information
Like Chris said, the main thing is the user experience. We all know a user
after 3 seconds of waiting for a page to show up, often goes somewhere else.
Most people are impatient. Having them fill in all that info they've already
filled out for their google checkout or paypal account, in a game or
Frank
Yes it was me that had the payment web page into your app but I am about
90% sure I am going to change to somehow use Market place.
For the main reason that I don't think I will get near as many people buying
my characters for my app if they have to enter their payment info into my
app at
Chris,
I see some potential problems with that approach. I think you need to
think out the process and make sure you have accounted for all the
details.
For instance, you can't charge a different amount for an app based on
what the user wants - can't charge twice as much for two characters.
You
Hi Chris,
One other problem that may occur is that users purchase additional APKs (or
virtual goods) and then after receiving them, simply ask for a refund on the
APK. This allows them to keep your installer and main app and get as many
add-ons and additional content as they want for free. There
Sure there is - when you load the saved game (or the app, or whatever) check
the content (characters, etc) against the installed applications.
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Chris,
One other problem that may occur is that users purchase
So.. would a gamer service that provides microtransaction support where a
user sets up a profile + credit/card/googlecheckout/paypal info.. once.. be
a better choice?
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.comwrote:
Sure there is - when you load the saved game (or the
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.comwrote:
Sure there is - when you load the saved game (or the app, or whatever)
check the content (characters, etc) against the installed applications.
Then you are back to the case of having a bunch of apks installed on the
Thank you for all the interest guys. Really it helps and it can help feature
developers down the road.
Shane it is tricky and I don't want to do against Googles blessing but their
lack of direction (or more like NO direction) on what developers should do
for virtual content has kind of backed us
*So I think I am in the ballpark, unless anyone sees anything I have
overlooked?*
I think you overlooked something big. You plan to leave the data on
the phone and uninstall the app. That works. But suppose I download
the a character app, install the character, then immediately refund?
Wouldn't
Will an uninstall trigger a refund? If so maybe I just don't do a refund? I
don't deal with it?
Is that an option? Can we do that?
I plan on only charging .99 for a character.
My main free app will contain two default characters (to get the user
hooked).
So if they really likes the app and
This is part of the problem that I originally outlined when I started
this thread. The Market policy allows refunds within the first so many
hours after installing. I can't remember if it's 24 or 48 hours.
I believe if a user uninstalls the app within that time frame the
charge is automatically
Chris, have you tried creating an account on ScoreLoop? Once logged in
they have a note at the bottom about their Android SDK. They are
making it available to a few developers and you can email them if you
are interested.
IMO, until Google builds an in-app payment system, the best bet is to
go
Warren
I think you are right. I think if I do an uninstall on the app before the 24
hour period then it refunds. Thanks for catching that.
Which leaves only one option.
The install app can have two buttons on it.
One to: Remove just the Install app
and another to: Remove the install app AND the
Maybe you could store the date you detected the new apk in the prefs
and say after refund period has expired you throw a dialog that tells
the user they can now uninstall the addon pack.
So for a few days (2 or 3 to be safe) your code checks that the apk is
still there, if not then remove the
Uninstall time is 48 hours for refund. I think it might have been 24 and
moved to 48.. not sure about that.
Chris, while I agree making it as seamless as possible is the goal, I think
we're up against a corner right now on Android. I think what you are doing
is admirable, but may be overly
I wonder if removing the .apks will bring up other issues, like updates? For
example, maybe not for your specific app, but what if a character .apk has a
bug in it.. you fix it.. but end users have uninstalled. Now they will have
to pay/reinstall again to get the updated toon even if they already
Thanks guys
Rob/Kevin
You guys are really give me some ideas here.
Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can user it
because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on other phones.
It’s not really a game.
So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked
I think there's an uninstall intent that you can hook into. If you go
this route, you should check into that, because there are other ways
to uninstall your app than through the interface you set up.
Here's an example of how this could go wrong (not trying to be overly
negative, just trying to
What is your specific reason for wanting to uninstall the character
apps?
You can make sure that they do not appear in the app drawer by using
the relevant intent filter. That would only leave them visible to the
user when they do something like Settings - Applications or look in
the Downloads of
Is there a way to be notified of uninstalls? I thought there wasnt?
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:51 PM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:
What is your specific reason for wanting to uninstall the character
apps?
You can make sure that they do not appear in the app drawer by using
the
Warren you comments are always welcome. Thank you
The way I am thinking of it is different.
If the user uninstalls the Install app within 48 it removes BOTH the install
app and the character and lets the server know that this user does not own
this character anymore.
So in your example the
westmeadboy
We are trying to find a way to make app's install virtual content via the
market. virtual content being movies, mp3 etc..
I didn't know that bout intent filter that is a big help thank you.
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:51 PM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:
What is your
I didn't know you could hide it from the app drawer. If that's the
case then loading additional apks from a master apk may be a nice
solution. Then you don't really need anything server-side either.
Do you happen to know which filter does it?
On Mar 25, 6:51 pm, westmeadboy
To exclude from the app drawer, I think this explains it:
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/c4ca26a240d7120b
BTW, looking at the payments (received) in Google Checkout the actual
payment goes through always between 24 and 36 hours after
authorisation. Most of the time its
So what we need is a faster process. :D I did forget that services, I think
paypal does this.. takes up to 5 days to clear for things like bank
transfers. I wonder how that will work outside of the market process.. if
you can't buy it immediately, you need some way to assure the user that the
westmeadboy
Thank you!
I think you sent me down the right track.
After much discussion on this I believe I found the best way to do this and
I think it will actually work and be transparent to the user. Meaning it
will be seen as one app and not a main and and a bunch of installer
app's.
Here
For your particular app.. that sounds pretty good. I don't know that I would
take this approach for say a game that had hundreds of different items you
could purchase.. that would flood the market with 100's of .apks.
Honestly, I would say your BIGGEST worry is flooding the market with tons of
I should add Chris, that if the .apk thing works now.. I would totally shelf
it for now.. knowing that it works, and do what I said above. If/when google
ever says anything, clarify with them your .apk route, and then reply to
this forum (and me via email if you wouldn't mind) and let us know the
Kevin
The main advantage like I stated before (and a BIG advantage in my mind) is
if I do the .apk route
1. Yes it complies with Google agreement.
but
2 and more importantly the user does not have to enter their finical info
again and if I state where they are browsing my characters that all
My interpretation, not to be confused with legal advice: Add-on
products purchased via an app do not qualify as products distributed
via the Market. However, something like a pro version of an app,
purchased via a lite version that was distributed via the Market,
would be subject to this part of
I hate to say it but I have to agree with Disconnect. I re-read the
agreement and it does say:
3.3 *All fees received* by Developers for Products *distributed* via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
To me that means any additional money that you make from any product
3.3 *All fees received* by Developers for Products *distributed* via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
To me that means any additional money that you make from any product (i.e.
app) that you distribute from the Market must go though the Market's Payment
I see your point. I can be read either way. The android tech guys on here
won't comment because it is a legal matter but it would be really really
great if they could at least point us in the direction of WHERE to ask this
question???
There is not a legal discussion forum to ask these things.
*
jfarringdon has posted an answer to the question In-App Purchasing for
Applications:
No you should not currently offer in app features that you charge for. It is
against the distribution agreement.
You could offer separate paid apps, and have your main app share these
resources (if you take good
I want to point out, because this has been part of the confusion the
whole time, that he says, No you should not currently offer in app
features that you charge for.
Did you get that? The you should not charge for features.
So suppose, as in Chris' case, you want to load extra character
models.
Here is where the discussion landed on the Market support forum.
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=3c47284987b99696hl=en
On Mar 24, 1:41 pm, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
I want to point out, because this has been part of the confusion the
whole time, that
Warren
That is correct. All the features for my app are always there, they never
change.
My app is just USED to load and run the characters (which are little modules
that my app uses that I want to charge for).
This is completely different than charging for an upgrade.
The same way you can put
Sorry Warren I didn't check over there. I will post the same response.
-Chris
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is where the discussion landed on the Market support forum.
Hey all,
read that thread and the rest of this one. I agree with TreKing. Just do it
Chris. The language to me, and everyone else here is quite clear. All apps
distributed thru the market MUST pay the market. Cool.. fair enough.. but
there is nothing at all that describes in-game transactions
I will post my response on both threads and I Kevin you are right we had two
threads going on this with no answer.
Thanks for the input TreKing
I agree I don't WANT to violate anything but when I can't get an answer I am
not sure what do to?
I have the basic skeleton structure for implementing
Kewl. I agree with you.. same thoughts.. if they are going to say don't do
it.. then they need to provide some clear cut examples and info on how to
provide such functionality. If it's thru the market, then for God's sake
please let's clean up the Market app so that virtual goods, addons etc are
No response from Google yet. I'm still hoping to get one.
Are Kevin Duffey and I the only ones interested in this? Does this
affect anyone else out there?
On Mar 17, 3:17 pm, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:
I am curious about this to, as micro transactions allow for addictive games
Hi,
I'm actually very interested as well.
I think if the Android Team doesn't answer it's just that it's not an
issue for them.
And as we say in France Qui ne dit mot, consent :D
I'm going to implement an in-app purchase in my next game.
I'm going to try to make it use Google checkout, this way
Too bad for you that the market agreement is -very- clear about it and
you've just publicly admitted any violation is willful and intentional. ISTR
the agreement says they can pull every dime you made from market if you do
that sort of thing...
Good luck though.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:25 AM,
Disconnect, I don't think the market agreement is clear on this.
It is clear that if you charge for apps, the payment has to go through
the Market processor.
I'm talking about something different. In this scenario, the app
doesn't change and all functionality is still available to all users.
Warren wrote:
I just want to get Google's take.
You're not likely to get Google's take on this list. The Googlers on
this list are engineers and are not in position to provide legal or
business advice.
--
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy
He doesn't want legal or business advice. He wants a clarification
of Google's policy regarding the implementation of a specific
feature.
That is not an unreasonable request, and if this is not the venue in
which to ask for such a clarification, then how exactly are developers
supposed to go
It comes up all the time, and every time it comes back to no, they
specifically said not to do that.
At first glance, section 3.3:
All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the Market must
be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
All fees. (And unless you have a weird
He is asking for someone to interpret a contract - that is legal advice.
Just like what router would you buy is technical advice - would you ask a
random lawyer that question?
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:36 AM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:
He doesn't want legal or business advice. He
polyclefsoftware wrote:
He doesn't want legal or business advice. He wants a clarification
of Google's policy regarding the implementation of a specific
feature.
That is legal or business advice compared to technical QA, which is
the purpose of this list and the role of the Googlers on it.
Hence, either you have the personal connections to ask the question of
an executive at a multi-billion-dollar firm, or you don't. If you do,
use them. If you don't, you either live without the answer or you find
some way to get those connections (e.g., form a cooperative with a
thousand other
Disconnect wrote:
At first glance, section 3.3:
All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must
be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
All fees. (And unless you have a weird contract with google
checkout, your
standard account is unlikely to do that 70/30
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:24 AM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:
Disconnect wrote:
At first glance, section 3.3:
All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must
be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
All fees. (And unless you have a weird
standard account is unlikely to do that 70/30 split, pay the carriers,
AGAIN !! This is driving me crazy !!!
Where did everybody get this info that the 30% goes to the carriers
and why would that be ?
I want, I demand, I beg for a link or something and an explanation as
to why a carrier would
Yahel wrote:
standard account is unlikely to do that 70/30 split, pay the carriers,
AGAIN !! This is driving me crazy !!!
Where did everybody get this info that the 30% goes to the carriers
and why would that be ?
I want, I demand, I beg for a link or something and an explanation as
to why
Ok.
I am REALLY trying to play ball here.
I will then ask a technical question on this issue.
If we have to go though the Android Market for people to purchase virtual
items though our app's (like a movie, or music) from a site then how do we
do that within our application technically - using
With one update: If the carrier doesn't get a cut (eg nexus one on
unsupported carrier) then that 30% goes to google. (Or at least, it goes
-somewhere- other than the developer - I'm not sure that they've ever
actually addressed that, so I could be wrong.)
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Mark
Interesting discussion.
3.3 - All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
One could argue that fees received by Developers for Products distributed
via the Market only applies to apps sold through the market. If you
Disconnect wrote:
Nice try, but you need to read the -whole- agreement:
Payment Processor(s): Any party authorized by Google to provide payment
processing services that enable Developers with optional Payment Accounts to
charge Device users for Products distributed via the Market.
Ad
I wonder how Amazon.com (Music Store/MP3 Store) interprets these rules/
contract...?
You can download music from Amazon.com on your Android phone without
going through Android Market for each song/album purchase.
You can buy movie tickeds from the Fandango application. Movie tickets
are not
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:56 AM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:
Disconnect wrote:
Nice try, but you need to read the -whole- agreement:
Payment Processor(s): Any party authorized by Google to provide payment
processing services that enable Developers with optional Payment
A technical fix in the Market would be wonderful!
There are a few problems with the way Gang Wars, et al do app
purchasing.
First, users can uninstall within 24 hours. That means you have to
prevent the app from using any new features until that time has
expired and you know it won't be
If you then
used your app to allow the user to buy stuff from your website, those fees
would not be for products distributed via the Market, they would be for
products distributed via your website and would not be subject to being
processed by the Payment Processor.
Thoughts?
This is
These guys seems to find a way to make it work.
Looks like they just add updates to their app though the market.
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/23/android-in-app-purchases-breached-by-ringz/
-Chris
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
If you then
used your
Not sure about any digital-downloads side of the amazon store, but mp3 store
has been an exception from the very beginning, back when there were -no-
paid downloads for android.
Movie tickets are physical items, the agreement seems focused on digital
items. (And fandango movie tickets don't
So, I am curious how a service like ScoreLoop is going to work? They provide
in-game tokens you buy with real many, or something like that. I apologize,
I haven't read up on it entirely. But a lot of android game developers are
looking to use ScoreLoop. ScoreLoop is already used a bit on iPhone,
On a different note... technically.. if Google does not provide the api to
handle this.. how are some of you thinking of actually implementing this?
Will you require the game player to enter credit card or paypal/google
checkout info into your game in order to charge them? I fear that if every
polyclefsoftware wrote:
Some other Google services provide this type of business contact.
Android does not. It should.
Agreed.
--
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy
Android App Developer Training: http://commonsware.com/training
--
You
I dont know that I agree Chris.. this issue is not resolved in my opinion.
There needs to be a definitive response from google, maybe not here, but
perhaps from a developer that has dealt with this issue.
The problem with using the market for updates.. is that it's going to flood
the market with
KevinYou just hit the nail on the head. Most of us are making applications
to make some extra money and if google is not going to allow developers to
do In-App Purchasing then we need a good alternate solution.
*PLEASE FOR THE ANDROID ENGINEERS ON HERE! *- If we can't do in-app
purchasing then
An in-app purchase API would be ideal for many reasons. It would spare
users from having to enter credit card information repeatedly. It
could also take advantage of carrier billing where it is available. It
could also provide more revenue for Google.
The question was asked about how else to do
Warren
My app is still in development but this is what I am doing. Within my app I
open a web browser to my site where I am using ZenCart.
http://www.zen-cart.com/
ZenCart handles all my store process and credit card processing. Once a user
selects an item and makes a payment (which are
Chris, as I said to Warren.. how many end users of your game are willing to
go through that extra long process to buy things? Why google/android would
NOT want to make almost free money by providing their google checkout as a
built in API and allow games/apps to use it in-game/app to offer goods,
Kevin
No. No
In my app they never leave the app. I use Webview within my app. So it's
seemless when it goes to the website. They click on New Characters button
and they where they can download new characters. Once they select a
character and pay for it then the app downloads and installs it for
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