Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 12 Jul 2017, at 04:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 12/07/2017 12:42 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:00:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: Well, if that is what it is supposed to imply, then John might well be right to have problems with it! As I have said before, there is

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 12/07/2017 12:42 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:00:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: Well, if that is what it is supposed to imply, then John might well be right to have problems with it! As I have said before, there is no analogy between step 3 and quantum many worlds

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:00:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > Well, if that is what it is supposed to imply, then John might well > be right to have problems with it! As I have said before, there is > no analogy between step 3 and quantum many worlds -- the differences > far outweigh any

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 12/07/2017 11:25 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 03:04:13PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 11/07/2017 2:12 pm, Russell Standish wrote: You're still missing the point. The quantum reality is a 1p thing, it is the observed phenomenal physics. Substrate independence is a 3p

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 03:04:13PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 11/07/2017 2:12 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >You're still missing the point. The quantum reality is a 1p thing, it > >is the observed phenomenal physics. Substrate independence is a 3p > >thing, and may be quantum, classical or

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 10 Jul 2017, at 14:29, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 10/07/2017 9:34 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Jul 2017, at 03:41, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 7:19 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2017, at 01:52, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 12:50 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Jul 2017,

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 11/07/2017 2:12 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:29:26PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: I don't think it is that simple. If we have substrate independence, the machine (the conscious person) cannot tell what substrate is supporting the computations, whether arithmetic, a

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:29:26PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > I don't think it is that simple. If we have substrate independence, > the machine (the conscious person) cannot tell what substrate is > supporting the computations, whether arithmetic, a quantum world, or > a classical Newtonian

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 10 Jul 2017, at 03:41, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 7:19 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2017, at 01:52, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 12:50 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Jul 2017, at 14:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: And assuming

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 10/07/2017 11:40 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Jul 07, 2017 at 10:56:27AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 10:40 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 10:22:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: No, position and momentum are dual in the sense I defined. The

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 7/07/2017 7:19 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2017, at 01:52, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 12:50 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Jul 2017, at 14:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: And assuming conscious classic digital machines, quantum

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Fri, Jul 07, 2017 at 10:56:27AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/07/2017 10:40 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 10:22:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > > >>No, position and momentum are dual in the sense I defined. The > >>observables are not compatible -- position

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 07 Jul 2017, at 01:52, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/07/2017 12:50 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Jul 2017, at 14:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: And assuming conscious classic digital machines, quantum phenomenology appears at the observed level - a

R: Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

Just 2 (old) references On quantum-mechanical automata -David Z. Albert Physics Letters A Volume 98, Issues 5–6, 24 October 1983, Pages 249-252 Abstract An automaton whose states are solutions of quantum-mechanical equations of motion is described, and the capacities of such an automaton to

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 7/07/2017 10:40 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 10:22:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: No, position and momentum are dual in the sense I defined. The observables are not compatible -- position and momentum are not simultaneously observable. I know what you mean by

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 10:22:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > No, position and momentum are dual in the sense I defined. The > observables are not compatible -- position and momentum are not > simultaneously observable. I know what you mean by "dual", although the conventional term is

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 7/07/2017 12:50 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Jul 2017, at 14:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: And assuming conscious classic digital machines, quantum phenomenology appears at the observed level - a result in line with Bruno Marchal's FPI result.

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 06 Jul 2017, at 14:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 04:18:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 2:33 pm, Russell Standish wrote: Establishing linearity is key. Yes, and you haven't made progress with that. All I ask

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 6/07/2017 5:55 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 04:18:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/07/2017 2:33 pm, Russell Standish wrote: Establishing linearity is key. Yes, and you haven't made progress with that. All I ask is to give me some more time on this. I have some

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 04:18:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 6/07/2017 2:33 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >Establishing linearity is key. > > Yes, and you haven't made progress with that. All I ask is to give me some more time on this. I have some further ideas in this regard, but need

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 6/07/2017 2:33 pm, Russell Standish wrote: Sorry for having gone dark, although maybe you relished the respite. I've been travelling, and its not been all that convenient to check and respond to emails. On Sat, Jul 01, 2017 at 02:56:58PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/07/2017 11:18 am,

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

Sorry for having gone dark, although maybe you relished the respite. I've been travelling, and its not been all that convenient to check and respond to emails. On Sat, Jul 01, 2017 at 02:56:58PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 1/07/2017 11:18 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >To summarise, you are

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 1/07/2017 11:18 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 04:57:00PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: In other words, observer moments are not vectors (or rays) in a linear vector space because a linear superposition of observer moments is not another observer moment: your derivation

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 04:57:00PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > In other words, observer moments are not vectors (or rays) in a > linear vector space because a linear superposition of observer > moments is not another observer moment: your derivation of Hilbert > space fails. > > Bruce >

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 30/06/2017 1:15 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:26:50AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/06/2017 5:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 03:19:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: That is where I must object. 3p, or 0p as I would prefer to refer to the

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 30/06/2017 1:15 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:26:50AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 29/06/2017 5:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: I haven't established this, because it is not needed to make contact with the regular set of axioms assumed in quantum theory. But to the

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:26:50AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 29/06/2017 5:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 03:19:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>On 28/06/2017 2:26 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >>>On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: >

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 29/06/2017 5:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 03:19:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 28/06/2017 2:26 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 27/06/2017 10:21 am, Russell Standish wrote: No, you are just dealing

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 26 Jun 2017, at 19:23, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Russell Standish wrote: ​> ​I've started with a different set of metaphysical assumptions,​ ​namely that we live in a Multiverse, ​Do you assume the number of universes are

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 03:19:40PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 28/06/2017 2:26 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>On 27/06/2017 10:21 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >>>No, you are just dealing with a function from whatever set the

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

hing-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 29, 2017 1:19 am Subject: Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?” On 28/06/2017 2:26 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On 27/06/2017 10:21 am, Russell Standish wrote:

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 28/06/2017 2:26 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 27/06/2017 10:21 am, Russell Standish wrote: No, you are just dealing with a function from whatever set the ψ and ψ_α are drawn from to that same set. There's never been an

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 05:09:49PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 27/06/2017 10:21 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >No, you are just dealing with a function from whatever set the ψ and ψ_α > >are drawn from to that same set. There's never been an assumption that > >ψ are numbers or functions, and

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 08:52:15AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 26/06/2017 3:57 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:50:45AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>That is not what is normally meant by the '+' symbol. You have > >>simply defined a conjunction to be a disjunction!

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

: Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?” On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote: ​> ​ I've started with a different set of metaphysical assumptions, ​ ​ namely that we live in a Multiverse, ​Do you assume the number

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 26/06/2017 3:57 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:50:45AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: That is not what is normally meant by the '+' symbol. You have simply defined a conjunction to be a disjunction! We are constructively defining +. I would not be so cruel as to use +

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 26 Jun 2017, at 03:50, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 26/06/2017 2:14 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: Keep in mind that to refute Mechanism (in cognitive science), it is not enough to show that a piece of matter is not Turing emulable. You need mainly to show that its behavior is not retrievable from

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Russell Standish wrote: ​> ​ > I've started with a different set of metaphysical assumptions, > ​ ​ > namely that we live in a Multiverse, ​Do you assume the number of universes are ​ denumerable ​? ​ > ​> ​ > and that observer moments

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:50:45AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > You mean your statement about the variation upon which anthropic > selection acts? Does this mean that the continuations that are > anthropically allowed are those the permit the observer's continued > existence? Or is something

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 25/06/2017 9:25 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 04:25:07PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 8:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: OK, it was possibly the

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 26/06/2017 2:14 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: Keep in mind that to refute Mechanism (in cognitive science), it is not enough to show that a piece of matter is not Turing emulable. You need mainly to show that its behavior is not retrievable from the statistics of the first person indeterminacy on

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 23 Jun 2017, at 03:20, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 22/06/2017 7:22 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jun 2017, at 01:31, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 10:12:20AM +0100, David Nyman wrote: > > > ​I always wondered about this aspect of your theory Russell. I assume that > you mean "describes under some interpretation". If so, the only available > interpretation (whether explicitly computationalist, a la UDA, or >

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 11:45:23PM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: > > There's a paper (actually several) by Sorkin which develops QM from > a measure on histories point of view that starts by the contrary of > the above equation; http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9401003v2 > Sounds interesting. I've

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 04:25:07PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 24/06/2017 8:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >> > >>OK, it was possibly the case that you gave arguments earlier

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 24 June 2017 at 11:36, Russell Standish wrote: > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > > > > OK, it was possibly the case that you gave arguments earlier in the > > book. But I was going on

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 6/24/2017 11:25 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 8:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: OK, it was possibly the case that you gave arguments earlier in the book. But I was going

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 24/06/2017 8:36 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: OK, it was possibly the case that you gave arguments earlier in the book. But I was going on the basis of the Appendix "Derivation of

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 06:29:54PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > > OK, it was possibly the case that you gave arguments earlier in the > book. But I was going on the basis of the Appendix "Derivation of > Quantum postulates". > > But the problems

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 24/06/2017 5:23 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 03:59:56PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: Well, I have just taken a quick look. What strikes me is that the first paragraph of Appendix D defines "Observer moments psi(t) are sets of possibilities consistent with what is known

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 03:59:56PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > Well, I have just taken a quick look. What strikes me is that the > first paragraph of Appendix D defines "Observer moments psi(t) are > sets of possibilities consistent with what is known at that point in > time, providing

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 24/06/2017 3:02 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 01:09:41PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 24/06/2017 11:20 am, Russell Standish wrote: The 3p is what is left after removing all personal baggage of each 1p view point. It is literally the view from nowhere (since location

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 01:09:41PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 24/06/2017 11:20 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >The 3p is what is left after removing all personal baggage of each 1p > >view point. It is literally the view from nowhere (since location is > >just such a baggage), and cannot be

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 24/06/2017 11:20 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 04:21:09PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: I know Scott wouldn't

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 04:21:09PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >>>I know Scott wouldn't go as far as me. For me, all such

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22/06/2017 7:22 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jun 2017, at 01:31, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22 Jun 2017, at 03:46, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 22/06/2017 10:32 am, David Nyman wrote: On 22 Jun 2017 00:31, "Bruce Kellett" wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22 Jun 2017, at 01:31, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22 Jun 2017 2:46 a.m., "Bruce Kellett" wrote: On 22/06/2017 10:32 am, David Nyman wrote: On 22 Jun 2017 00:31, "Bruce Kellett" < bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21,

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22/06/2017 10:32 am, David Nyman wrote: On 22 Jun 2017 00:31, "Bruce Kellett" > wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm,

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

ce Kellett <bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 21, 2017 7:31 pm Subject: Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?” On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22 Jun 2017 00:31, "Bruce Kellett" wrote: On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>>

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 22/06/2017 1:44 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: I know Scott wouldn't go as far as me. For

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 21 Jun 2017, at 08:21, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: I know Scott wouldn't go as far as me. For me, all such irreversible processes are

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: I know Scott wouldn't go as far

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 21/06/2017 4:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: I know Scott wouldn't go as far as me. For me, all such irreversible processes are related to conscious entities in some way. Whilst

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:15:31PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: > >I know Scott wouldn't go as far as me. For me, all such irreversible > >processes are related to conscious entities in some way. Whilst > >agreeing that Geiger counters are unlikely

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 19/06/2017 1:17 pm, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List wrote: On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Kim Jones wrote: > Jun 2017, at 12:15 pm, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > That

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 19/06/2017 12:35 pm, Kim Jones wrote: Jun 2017, at 12:15 pm, Bruce Kellett wrote: That sounds remarkably like the "many minds" interpretation of quantum mechanics. This is disfavoured by most scientists because it leaves the physics of the billions of years

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Kim Jones wrote: > Jun 2017, at 12:15 pm, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > That sounds remarkably like the "many minds" interpretation of quantum > mechanics. This is

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

> Jun 2017, at 12:15 pm, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > That sounds remarkably like the "many minds" interpretation of quantum > mechanics. This is disfavoured by most scientists because it leaves the > physics of the billions of years before the emergence of the first >

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 19/06/2017 10:23 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 12:48:51PM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: Here Scott Aaronson addresses the "pretty-hard problem of consciousness" http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1951 His idea of "participation in the Arrow of Time" is a narrower and

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 12:48:51PM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: > Here Scott Aaronson addresses the "pretty-hard problem of consciousness" > > http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1951 > > His idea of "participation in the Arrow of Time" is a narrower and > more technical version of my idea that

Re: “Could a Quantum Computer Have Subjective Experience?”

On 05 Jun 2017, at 21:48, Brent Meeker wrote: Here Scott Aaronson addresses the "pretty-hard problem of consciousness" http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1951 Not much time to read it all, but very interesting. But they miss the point. They still don't listen to the machine. I