Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
Bug reports need to be thorough. If they do not provide enough information to reproduce a bug, or at least explain exactly what is going on, then it is hard for the developers and bug squashers to do anything about it. Sometimes, as the reported, you miss some important things. Okay. Then the wrangler (or whom else works onthr bug) simply should ask for more information. But if your bugs are always marked as invalid, you loose any motiviation for further contributions. Bug reports are also contribution. Imo, provide as much information as possible, describe all paths of logic, dont assume bugwranglers are psychic. Verbosity can be your friend. If its marked invalid, then either they've given a damn good reason, or you've not given them a better one not to mark it invalid. In either case, if its invalid, keep posting as much information as possible on the subject, not just the what, but the why. I'm still at a loss why theres any need for symlinks to the coda FS when you could just tell firefox to build a profile /directly/ on that coda-fs. Im not saying there is no valid reason, just there has yet to be a good explanation as to why. If you can't on your own convince a dev to change a bugs status, find other people with similar problems to increase the validity of your claim. Bugs can be like a court room. No witnesses no good evidence, a poor testimony, and you end up in jail. So you get all the evidence you can, get your witnesses, make a nice logical argument, and with any luck, the wrangler might reinstate its free status ( cos being invalid dosn't mean that the CC list will suddenly stop working afaik ) I can't really argue that one. I would also admit that I personally tend to be a lot more patient in weedling information out of an end user. Comes from tech support training. Do remember though that a lot of techies are not people persons (I know that is not a great excuse, or even good grammar). The founders of the open source movement were notorious jerks. :P It is a matter of recorded fact. They Focused more on the software and let their friends handle the people. I sympathize with them. The reason devs often tend to be jerks, is because people of lesser understanding often be as big a jerk when they envisage a problem which is really a case of problem exists between keyboard and chair or a case of its not our fault, its somebody elses, and sadly for devs, there are an awful lot of people who know very little yet profess to know very much. ( Evidence? in high school i had one teacher tell me off for doing on a computer something another teacher had told me to do, because the one of lesser understanding didn't obviously have a clue what i was doing, and thus made drastic assumptions that i was 'writing viruses and hacking' and that was before I ever did any /real/ programming work :/ ... work in a company where you have customers, you'll probably find complications with 'customer doesn't understand, and thus we have to start again to fix a non-problem' ) if the idea of creating a new profile would not work for you, then recreating your firefox directory, with physical copies of the symlinked files would do the trick as well. Not really. The symlinks are no problem for FF, it works perfectly well. And I *need* them to store temporary stuff locally. It's mozilla-launcher which artificially breaks if it *thinks* something could be wrong. Personally, I don't realy know WHAT mozilla-launcher is I think. :P I have always just created shortcuts to firefox directly, and let it handle everything itself. Imagine if you just sunk three years into a project, and suddenly someone started attacking you because it didn't work perfectly on their system. Well, I'm working on lots of OSS projects for many many years. But I never ever felt being attacked by an bug report. It is not the bug report that is the attack. It is the angry declarations of incompetense. The insistance that because you do not agree, that something must be wrong with the developers. The fact that in just a handful of hours working with a complicated issue, you declared the community at large to be hostile and ignorant. Community is developer oriented, and thus, nasties and arrogance will abound =). Just look in -dev for your daily dose of flame war/soap opera. ( if your going to have a 100+ message flamewar that started from somebody complaining and missunderstanding an 'inside' joke, it looks kinda evident that some devs love arguing for the sake of it... so with that in mind, play safe, be nice :) ) That is just what I have seen from this situation. It is not the fact that you submit bugs, it is the way in which you do it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list In favour of what Enrico did, although for all the world it seems like he fought a bit and went against advice, he found a problem, and provided the means for a solution, and placed it in bugzilla. Despite it
[gentoo-user] Re: Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes it seems, certain wranglers are for killing bugs of specific persons ;-O I don't know. I think it's just Jakub. He's REALLY quick to kill a bug, especially if he doesn't completely understand what the bug is about. This also pisses me off from time to time... Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, Jakub is very fast closing bugs - and sometimes he closes them too fast... this is nothing new - and arguing with him in a civil manner usually solves that. I'm some bit confused that the wranglers should do such decisions at all (if they're not also involved in the affected package). If you disagree with his decision, simply reopen the bug. And do so over and over again. Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] xsane and sane compile error
Hi, I'm doing my regular updates and got a strange error that looks like some dependency got missed somehow. This is the error I got: checking for stpcpy... yes checking for LC_MESSAGES... yes checking whether NLS is requested... no checking for sane-config... /usr/bin/sane-config checking for SANE - version = 1.0.0... no *** Could not run SANE test program, checking why... checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config checking for GIMP - version = 1.3.23... yes (version 2.2.14) checking png.h usability... yes checking png.h presence... yes checking for png.h... yes checking for png_create_info_struct in -lpng... yes ERROR: SANE-1.0.0 or newer is needed for compiling xsane - if you installed SANE as rpm make sure you also included sane-devel make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. !!! ERROR: media-gfx/xsane-0.994 failed. Call stack: ebuild.sh, line 1621: Called dyn_compile ebuild.sh, line 973: Called qa_call 'src_compile' ebuild.sh, line 44: Called src_compile xsane-0.994.ebuild, line 49: Called die !!! (no error message) !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. !!! A complete build log is located at '/var/log/portage/media-gfx:xsane-0.994:20070607-085535.log'. [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # This is a equery list of all the sane stuff installed and available: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # equery list -p sane [ Searching for package 'sane' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ ] media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.18-r2 (0) [I--] [ ] media-gfx/xsane-0.991 (0) * Portage tree (/usr/portage) [-P-] [ ] games-arcade/insaneodyssey-000311 (0) [-P-] [ ] media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.17 (0) [-P-] [ ] media-gfx/sane-frontends-1.0.13 (0) [-P-] [ ] media-gfx/sane-frontends-1.0.14 (0) [-P-] [ ] media-gfx/xsane-0.994 (0) [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # I don't see a sane-1.0.0 available except for the backends package which it shows as installed already. Is this a bug or am I missing something? Thanks Dale :-) :-) :-) Oh, emerge --info just in case: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # emerge --info Portage 2.1.2.9 (default-linux/x86/2006.1/desktop, gcc-4.1.2, glibc-2.5-r3, 2.6.18-gentoo-r6 i686) = System uname: 2.6.18-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ Gentoo Base System release 1.12.9 Timestamp of tree: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 06:50:01 + distcc 2.18.3 i686-pc-linux-gnu (protocols 1 and 2) (default port 3632) [disabled] ccache version 2.4 [enabled] dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7, 2.0.32 dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r4 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r5 dev-util/ccache: 2.4-r7 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.17 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10 sys-devel/binutils: 2.16.1-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.3.16 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.22 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.17-r2 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=x86 AUTOCLEAN=yes CBUILD=i686-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -O2 -momit-leaf-frame-pointer CHOST=i686-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/share/config CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/gconf /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c CXXFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -O2 -momit-leaf-frame-pointer DISTDIR=/usr/portage/distfiles FEATURES=buildpkg ccache distlocks fixpackages metadata-transfer parallel-fetch sandbox sfperms strict GENTOO_MIRRORS= SNIP LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,now LINGUAS=en MAKEOPTS=-j3 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS=--timeout=600 PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --filter=H_**/files/digest-* PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp PORTDIR=/usr/portage SYNC=rsync://rsync.namerica.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage USE=3dnow X acl acpi alsa amd arts artswrappersuid automount berkdb bitmap-fonts browserplugin bzip2 cairo cddb cdr chroot cli cracklib crypt cups dbus doc dri dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss encode esd exif fam fdftk fortran gaim gcj gdbm gif gimp gimpprint gkrellm gphoto2 gpm gstreamer gtk hal hbci iconv ipv6 isdnlog java javascript jbig jpeg jpeg2k justify kde ldap libg++ logrotate mad midi mikmod mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap ncurses nptl nptlonly nsplugin offensive ofx ogg opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt4 quicktime readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl seamonkey session spell spl sqlite sse ssl syslog tcl tcpd tiff tk truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts udev unicode usb vorbis win32codecs wma wmf wmp x86 xml xorg xprint xv yahoo zlib ALSA_CARDS=emu10k1 ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm
[gentoo-user] Somehow my local portage tree is out of sync
Hi, I've had this issue for a few days now... `emerge -pvuDN world` tells me that x11-libs/libwnck-2.16.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword). But when looking inside /usr/portage/x11-libs/libwnck/libwnck-2.16.3.ebuild I see KEYWORDS=alpha amd64 ~arm hppa ia64 ppc ppc64 ~sh sparc x86 ~x86-fbsd. I've done `emerge --sync` and `emerge --metadata`, but still this persists. I've never come across such a situation before. How do I fix this? `rm -rf /usr/portage/x11-libs emerge --sync`, perhaps? Thanks! Mike -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Somehow my local portage tree is out of sync
OIMELONG Mike Mazur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hi, I've had this issue for a few days now... `emerge -pvuDN world` tells me that x11-libs/libwnck-2.16.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword). But when looking inside /usr/portage/x11-libs/libwnck/libwnck-2.16.3.ebuild I see KEYWORDS=alpha amd64 ~arm hppa ia64 ppc ppc64 ~sh sparc x86 ~x86-fbsd. I've done `emerge --sync` and `emerge --metadata`, but still this persists. I've never come across such a situation before. How do I fix this? `rm -rf /usr/portage/x11-libs emerge --sync`, perhaps? Try running your emerge -pvuDN world as this : ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge -pvuDN world or add ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 to your /etc/make.conf . If this not works, can you post the output of emmerge --info ? Thanks! Regards. Mike -- Xavier Parizet [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxant.fr signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somehow my local portage tree is out of sync
Hi, On 6/7/07, Xavier Parizet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try running your emerge -pvuDN world as this : ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge -pvuDN world or add ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 to your /etc/make.conf . Sure, adding '=x11-libs/libwnck-2.16.3 ~x86' to my /etc/packages/package.keywords allows me to update, no problems there. What I don't understand is that libwnck-2.16.3 is not marked ~x86 in portage: http://packages.gentoo.org/ebuilds/?libwnck-2.16.3 Also, the ebuild on my system claims that libwnck2.16.3 is stable on my system: # cat /usr/portage/x11-libs/libwnck/libwnck-2.16.3.ebuild | grep KEYWORDSKEYWORDS=alpha amd64 ~arm hppa ia64 ppc ppc64 ~sh sparc x86 ~x86-fbsd But yet somehow portage thinks that libwnck-2.16.3 is masked by the ~x86 keyword. Still puzzled, Mike -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Cups blockers . . .
Mick, On 07/06/07, Mick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 15:49, Naga wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 16:25:51 Mick wrote: # emerge -C net-print/foomatic-filters-ppds-20070501 --- Couldn't find 'net-print/foomatic-filters-ppds-20070501' to unmerge. Is this the version you have? That's the version that I had before I uninstalled it because it was reported as a blocker. I fixed it now - please see my other message on this thread. I had the same problem, but just did a fresh emerge --sync and the problem is no longer there. Cups is no longer asking for an upgrade. Like Bo Ørsted Andresen said, probably a bad add to the main tree...? Dunno... ...Ric -- Ric de France Ph: +61412945554 (international) or 0412945554 (Australia) == Do you, uh... Gentoo? Gent-hooo!! == == http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml == -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Changing primary monitor on dual-monitor X.org setup
On Wednesday 06 June 2007 22:40, Florian Philipp wrote: Am Mittwoch 06 Juni 2007 20:46 schrieb Aleksey Kunitskiy: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 21:10, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Or, just switch the Device lines. Each device is a single DVI port (at least on my NVidia setup). Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Card1 MonitorMonitor0 DefaultDepth24 SubSection Display Modes 1280x1024 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen1 Device Card0 MonitorMonitor1 DefaultDepth24 SubSection Display Modes 1280x1024 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection Nothing changed. Where I am mistaken ? :( -- best regards, Aleksey V. Kunitskiy You could try to change the entry 'screen' in 'Section Device' I tried to change Screen parameter in section Device and Device param in section Screen - none of these two variants work for me :( -- best regards, Aleksey V. Kunitskiy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
* Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm some bit confused that the wranglers should do such decisions at all (if they're not also involved in the affected package). because it is their job to filter out noise so 'real' devs can concentrate on the 'real' bugs. They are the first line of defence. Oh, funny, devs have to be defended from users ? This really reminds me on the behaviour of some great German Telco. They defend their techs (who often are really good folks) by stupid callcenter people who can do almost nothing. The new management has recognized that such extreamly bad service had cost about a million of customers and so changes that. (yeah, I didn't belive it first, but they're now really trying to do good service) ... And since bug wranglers are humans, they can't know everything and sometimes they make a mistake. Of course. And I don't blame them for doing some mistake. The problem is that it happens virtually everytime. I don't know if it only affects my bugs which are declared invalid per default. It would be really okay, if the wrangler says: please provide more information or the patch makes trouble with [...] etc. And if some makes an error, could simply say one word: sorry. This would be an normal discussion, as civilized people used to do. Bug wranglers are the first filter, if the bug is not assigned to a team. And sometimes, they filter things, that should not be filtered out. Stay calm, explain the situation - Once, I did. But that did not work. I was titled stupid, my issues were declared invalid and I was told to go away. But having a fit on this ml does not help anybody - For me, it helps. I just want to tell the public what's going on. After that I feel better. If anything changes then is unimportant at this point ;-P And of course I inform people of my fixes. If they're interested, they can pick 'em, otherwise simply ignore me. it just looks bad. And it makes YOU look bad. I dont care. It totally irrelevant to me, if I look good or bad in such an unimportant area like b.g.o. All that matters is that I get my problems solved as quick and easy as possible. And of course I like to give my works on OSS back to the community. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xsane and sane compile error
On Thursday 07 June 2007, Dale wrote: I'm doing my regular updates and got a strange error that looks like some dependency got missed somehow. This is the error I got: checking for stpcpy... yes checking for LC_MESSAGES... yes checking whether NLS is requested... no checking for sane-config... /usr/bin/sane-config checking for SANE - version = 1.0.0... no Odd. sane-config belongs to sane-backends, try re-emerge that one first, then emerge xsane. What's the output of sane-config --version? (the thing may have gotten deleted/trashed meanwhile by the elves/spooks/aliens/whathaveyou) alan -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
Hi, On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 00:03:52 +0200 Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since your awesome efforts last time, everyone here already knows you're the most polite bug reporter, absolutely fair and I'm really tired of your boring personal attacks. In fact, it was the first one. I never replied to any of your harsh, unfriendly postings before. I really regret I did this time (not because I didn't mean it the way I've put it). And BTW: I *did* reply to nice and civilized postings of yours in the past. Your solution to that bug was charming and short: Dump what you didn't see making sense In fact: yes. It doesn't make sense to me that startup is refused if the files do not seem to be owned by the current user. Eons ago it had been okay, but today (with ACLs) this is really no reliable source on permissions. This certainly is a matter for discussion. And to go further, even the references to earlier bugs in that section don't seem to have to do with the problem. I think you're absolutely right in that there shouldn't be a check at all, because it would be not really gentoo-like to react over-jealous to users who want to shoot themselves in their knees. So, yes, my feeling is the same: It's a stupid check. However: That wasn't the point you made in your posting and neither in the bug report. You stated instead that it breaks on symlinks and that this specifically is the problem. Your fix was too general for what it stated to fix. It removed the functionality that it claimed to fix. Without explanation and reasoning, I'm really happy that such bugs are not blindly accepted, i.e. at least regarding the fix. (is that what you said about things being invalid ?) NO. The bug, so the whole issue (not my patch), was declared invalid. This means nothing else that there is no problem. And you really read the according notice, right? That you should reopen it if it isn't fixed for you, yes? Well, I've definately seen some more harsh bug closures. Why wasn't you solution just said in the bug, as response of mine ? Then I just would have tried it and we had seen if worked. I better leave the reasoning w/ Jakub to you. I think that's a nice exercise in working out some personal problems with him expressed in your answers to that bug report. I really didn't feel like putting my ideas below *that* kind of text. In fact, I would be more likely opening a new bug, if it ever bites me. -hwh -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Somehow my local portage tree is out of sync
On Thursday 07 June 2007 11:19:30 Mike Mazur wrote: I've had this issue for a few days now... `emerge -pvuDN world` tells me that x11-libs/libwnck-2.16.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword). But when looking inside /usr/portage/x11-libs/libwnck/libwnck-2.16.3.ebuild I see KEYWORDS=alpha amd64 ~arm hppa ia64 ppc ppc64 ~sh sparc x86 ~x86-fbsd. I've done `emerge --sync` and `emerge --metadata`, but still this persists. I've never come across such a situation before. How do I fix this? `rm -rf /usr/portage/x11-libs emerge --sync`, perhaps? An overlay? emerge --info ? -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Somehow my local portage tree is out of sync
Hi, On 6/7/07, Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An overlay? Yep, that was it. Feeling pretty silly right now. Thanks a lot! Mike -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
On Donnerstag, 7. Juni 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: * Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm some bit confused that the wranglers should do such decisions at all (if they're not also involved in the affected package). because it is their job to filter out noise so 'real' devs can concentrate on the 'real' bugs. They are the first line of defence. Oh, funny, devs have to be defended from users ? from abusive users? yes also from mediocre bug reports, and bugs where the problem is PEBCAC. Because their time is limited. So they need people who filter out the junk. This really reminds me on the behaviour of some great German Telco. They defend their techs (who often are really good folks) by stupid callcenter people who can do almost nothing. The new management has recognized that such extreamly bad service had cost about a million of customers and so changes that. (yeah, I didn't belive it first, but they're now really trying to do good service) ... Telekom? Telekom had always bad service, they have bad service, they will have bad service. But you can't compare a multi-billion euro business with a VOLUNTEER project. And since bug wranglers are humans, they can't know everything and sometimes they make a mistake. Of course. And I don't blame them for doing some mistake. The problem is that it happens virtually everytime. I don't know if it only affects my bugs which are declared invalid per default. and strangely it only happened once for me. Maybe it is the quality and tone of your bug reports? It would be really okay, if the wrangler says: please provide more information or the patch makes trouble with [...] etc. And if some makes an error, could simply say one word: sorry. This would be an normal discussion, as civilized people used to do. and strangely, that is the usual way. Except with Jakub - but that is a completly different problem. Bug wranglers are the first filter, if the bug is not assigned to a team. And sometimes, they filter things, that should not be filtered out. Stay calm, explain the situation - Once, I did. But that did not work. I was titled stupid, my issues were declared invalid and I was told to go away. and you did? I stayed and after the third or fourth comment someone with the knowledge came in and ended it. If your bug is valid, stay there. Explain your problem. Maybe cc the correct teams/devs. As I said, the bug wranglers are just human (and one of them is pretty... harsh). But having a fit on this ml does not help anybody - For me, it helps. I just want to tell the public what's going on. After that I feel better. If anything changes then is unimportant at this point ;-P but nothing changes because the people responsible for your anger do not read this. And of course I inform people of my fixes. If they're interested, they can pick 'em, otherwise simply ignore me. and what about the people not subscribed to the ml? it just looks bad. And it makes YOU look bad. I dont care. It totally irrelevant to me, if I look good or bad in such an unimportant area like b.g.o. for an unimportant area you make a lot of fuss about it. All that matters is that I get my problems solved as quick and easy as possible. And of course I like to give my works on OSS back to the community. but complaining on the ml, instead to the devs, userrel oder devrel, won't solve your problem. If you feel abused, talk to userrel/devrel. It is their JOB to resolve the situation. And the last time a certain bugwrangler was too abusive, he got hit with the cluehammer 40 000. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why multiple versions of java-config, automake, and autoconf?
On Thursday 07 June 2007 01:44:39 Enrico Weigelt wrote: Now... Why are there multiple versions of java-config, autoconf, and automake shown on my system? These are packages totally incompatible and so different packages under the same name. They're sometimes necessary, since certain projects still require very old version, even if upgrade wouldn't be such a problem and has already been done by contributors (ie. mozilla). Well, they still are different versions under the same packages from the same projects. Gentoo has an strange magic for handling that, called Slots. They deeply break the linear version space. This makes handling very tricky and requires much additional complexity. Some of the other replies should make clear some prolems ... I have no idea what breaking 'the linear version space' means. And I don't see how having automake in 7 different packages instead of seven slots under the same package makes it any less complex. How is having a depend on =sys-devel/automake-1.4* or sys-devel/automake:1.4 any more complex than a depend on a separate packages named sys-devel/automake-1.4 ? There are actuallly packages in the tree that don't care which version of automake is in use (at least according to there ebuilds). Now they just depend on sys-devel/automake. With your brilliant solution they would have to depend on || ( sys-devel/automake-1.4 sys-devel/automake-1.5 ... ). No idea, why the responsible Gentoo-devs didn't just give those incompatible packages different names, especially on their own packages. AFAIK, java-config is made by Gentoo. It would be trivial, just to call the 2.x version something like java-config-2 ... perhaps too simple for them ? It still doesn't change the problem that if they have different files with the same name they need to install it in different places. That problem is just the same whether in slots or separate packages. [SNIP] As someone else already that: one of the problems with slots. They don't work well on cleanup. I wonder if anybody ever thought about that when slots were introduced. --depclean does actually remove unneeded slots now for packages not in system or world. By removing slotting you take away flexibility and make things in a source distribution harder. Not easier. Yes, it sucks that our current EAPI doesn't support that flexibility properly (by allowing slot deps) and that our current package manager doesn't support the flexibility that use deps would provide (hence dying in pkg_setup when a use flag was required). But the long term solution is not to remove the flexibility that these concepts provide but rather to support it properly in the package manager and EAPI. -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Wha' hoppen to firestarter?
Mick wrote: packages, and no really good idea which ones will be the best for a personal firewall, let alone which ones are best supported upstream so this doesn't happen to me again. So I'm interested in recommendations. What did you switch to? I switched to shorewall and have been very pleased with it's performance. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xsane and sane compile error
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 07 June 2007, Dale wrote: I'm doing my regular updates and got a strange error that looks like some dependency got missed somehow. This is the error I got: checking for stpcpy... yes checking for LC_MESSAGES... yes checking whether NLS is requested... no checking for sane-config... /usr/bin/sane-config checking for SANE - version = 1.0.0... no Odd. sane-config belongs to sane-backends, try re-emerge that one first, then emerge xsane. What's the output of sane-config --version? (the thing may have gotten deleted/trashed meanwhile by the elves/spooks/aliens/whathaveyou) alan Yea, I thought it was weird when I searched the forums and no one else had this error. Here is the info you requested: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # sane-config --version 1.0.18 [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # I'll do some re-emerging and see what happens. Thanks Dale :-) :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Touch screen
* Rodrigo Forlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone point me a touch screen monitor that works under console? I bought a Touchscreen from some car-tuning guy on ebay. The touchscreen is detected as an eGalax compatible unit and works using the usbtouchscreen-module of the linux-kernel (using 2.6.19-gentoo-?). Works as in the cursor moves when I touch it. I had to patch the kernel to add some sysfs-entries to be able to calibrate it without X. I sent the patch to the maintainer some days ago, who has not repiled yet. If anybody is interested in the patch, please ask. I develop programs under console using framebuffer so i need also a nice api to make my programs work with touchscreen. I use pygame with the fbcon SDL-Driver, that works without any problems. Some rough project overview and screenshots can be found at http://www.spida.net/projects/pympdtouchgui/, code will follow. HTH, if you want more details, feel free to ask. Timo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xsane and sane compile error
Dale wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 07 June 2007, Dale wrote: I'm doing my regular updates and got a strange error that looks like some dependency got missed somehow. This is the error I got: checking for stpcpy... yes checking for LC_MESSAGES... yes checking whether NLS is requested... no checking for sane-config... /usr/bin/sane-config checking for SANE - version = 1.0.0... no Odd. sane-config belongs to sane-backends, try re-emerge that one first, then emerge xsane. What's the output of sane-config --version? (the thing may have gotten deleted/trashed meanwhile by the elves/spooks/aliens/whathaveyou) alan Yea, I thought it was weird when I searched the forums and no one else had this error. Here is the info you requested: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # sane-config --version 1.0.18 [EMAIL PROTECTED] / # I'll do some re-emerging and see what happens. Thanks Dale :-) :-) :-) OK, update. I did a emerge sane-backends and then it has some config files that needed updating and I did that. After that, the updates ran fine. Maybe it just had to much to drink and got confused for a bit. I did check the version above before I did the re-emerge though. So it had a good version but just didn't seem to know it yet. Thanks for the help. Dale :-) :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] startup woes with sshd, rsyncd, nfs, portmap
Hi, All, After a long period of not updating one of my machines, I recently did a fairly large emerge -DuNv world. And now things don't work quite as they used to. Symptoms: sshd doesn't start nfs doesn't start rsyncd doesn't start system sometimes hangs on shutdown when it tries to unmount remote filesystems. There are no complaints in /var/log/messages. I can start all of these daemons by hand without a problem and all are in the default rc level. Starting nfs is a bit different from starting the others: I have to start portmap first Any ideas on where to look for problems? John Blinka
Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Complaining TWICE worked. Is it so bad? I'd say complaining ten times would be bad, but twice seems a reasonable number of attempts. The problem I complained about shouldn't have happened in the first place; someonex fixed something that wasn't broken and made it broken. Bugs! What an awkward occurrence in the world of programming! And, even more unusual, people who should improve programs... introduce new bugs too! Alas! They even have a word for these incredibly rare kind of bugs: regressions. They are as common as shit, my friend. I just discovered two of them, today, in the data analysis software I code in my lab :) Probably someone fixed something that WAS broken but, doing that, also unfixed something else. In programming, often, tightening a string somewhere looses it somewhere else. Bug fixing is harder than programming itself. Your response is absolutely typical of my problem with the gentoo dev community. You misstate a complaint, overreact to it, and apparently feel pretty smug about your accomplishment. Where did I misstate (?) a complaint? Where did I overreact? And where did I feel smug about it? You had perfectly legit complaints. I (we) just told you what the correct procedure to get solved is. Note:maybe it won't get them solved, I agree. But ranting is not a way either. All you can logically do is try again to follow the procedure, or fix them yourself. There's nothing else you can do. Really. No one will admit to the two screwups (first breaking a working ebuild, second incorrectly closing a bug on it). Instead you lash out at those who point out problems. I fully, completely admit the screwups! What you fail to understand is that they're common everyday problems that will always occur on a large project like an operating system distribution, and that there are methods to fix them most of the time. Yes, I had the wrong program when I compalined about the color problem. But the gentoo community response then as now was to lash out, scream and shout, not to actually investigate. What there was to investigate? First, we are NOT the community that must investigate, since we're users, not devels. Ask devels to investigate. Second, your problem was not something like, say, X freezing, no error messages, where could I look?, but more like colours ugly as hell, wtf why don't they change them. What is there to investigate about that? Everyone not colour-blind on this list knows what colours has emerge: investigation finished. Third, you actually already did all the investigation possible. You, IIRC: -looked at emerge code -didn't like that (probably rightly so) -told yourself they're too dumb to even understand a complain (not rightly so, IMHO) -rant on gentoo-users Really, what should have we done? It is not a rhetoric question: I just don't understand. If you can tell me an example of what should we have done, I'm really and sincerely happy to hear it. And when I finally left the thread alone, you geniuses were still ranting about it three days later when I next checked. That's a good point. We can't resist flamebaits, that's all. :) But so, what has it to do with the problem? You folks may think you have a cool system, and it is in some ways and could be in many others. But I know many people who tried gentoo and bailed precisely because of the shoot the messenger mentality so pervasive here; the self-selected sample you see is meaningless. Well, I tell you a secret: even with all its quirks and defects, Gentoo has one of the more friendly and helpful communities in the OSS world. Try have a look at the Debian, OpenBSD or Slackware forums/ml/IRC channels, and you'll understand. Go ahead, have another three days' fun. Maybe I'll spark some more tinders in a month or two. I wouldn't want to deprive you of your fun. I can't understand your sarcasm. It's you that put flamebaits in the forests -how can you blame us for the fire? :) m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid
Enrico Weigelt ha scritto: No, I'm not the one who teaches anyody. I go my way, if you like it, feel free to follow me, if you don't like it, go you own but leave me alone. So don't expect anyone to like you, if you don't teach anyone what do you think and...-- I've shown several problems and concepts, but I was immediately attacked. So the message is clear: I'm unwelcomed. -- you don't defend it seriously. Really. If you think there's a problem, explain it. You get attacked? Insist. Prove them they are wrong. Do your best, politely but firmly. Accept the fact you are discussing -people maybe attack you simply because they don't understand at first time and, guess what, this could be also your fault, not only them. If you don't insist and make no further attemps, how do you expect people understand? Do you think we can read your mind? I don't see any reason for wasting more time on those folks. That's the reason why I usually don't post on -dev anymore. I still post on -users for those people who still might be interested. If that's your attitude, you can even unsubscribe users, and leave us alone. I hope you change your mind (I doubt it but...) m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] startup woes with sshd, rsyncd, nfs, portmap
Hi, On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:55:45 -0400 John Blinka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sshd doesn't start nfs doesn't start rsyncd doesn't start Are those being started (i.e. tried to) at boot? Is it just fail then for you? There should at least be a bit of debug info in the output at startup... You might also try the interactive boot up (hit I) and see what happens. You _did_ run etc-update (or its siblings) in order to get the new files in /etc/init.d/ activated? You're sure you have the new versions of those files installed? Since all of those daemons depend on network: Are there network settings for interfaces that fail on boot up? -hwh -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] gnome-2.16.3 - problems with the desktop not painting - no icons or wallpaper
Hi, I originally posted this on the AMD64 list when it happened to my desktop machine. I've updated my son's machine to gnome-2.16.3 and now have the same problem there. I've searched the forums to no avail. Same with Bugzilla. The symptom is that when logging in the Gnome splash panel comes up and says 3 things, the last being 'Nautilus' where the splash panel hangs. The Gnome panel then comes up but the desktop doesn't paint so you don't have icons or access to files left on the desktop. The machine is otherwise functional. The menus work as does Ethernet, etc., so I could call up Firefox and write this email. On my AMD64 machine I went back to 2.16.2 which didn't fix it so I removed everything with gnome in the name and did an emerge -e world. After that I emerged Gnome again and 2.16.2 is working. I am not anxious to go thought that again on my son's machine so before I start that process I figured I might write and see if anyone has some ideas where to look. I don't see anything very strange in top while the splash panel is up. Somewhere along the way the panel finishes waiting for whatever it's waiting for, I see a flashing dialog window that cannot be read, and then I have the desktop with nothing on it. Just the panel at the bottom. Has anyone reading this list had a problem like this? Any solutions or ideas where to look? Thanks, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-2.16.3 - problems with the desktop not painting - no icons or wallpaper
On 6/7/07, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, snip The symptom is that when logging in the Gnome splash panel comes up and says 3 things, the last being 'Nautilus' where the splash panel hangs. The Gnome panel then comes up but the desktop doesn't paint so you don't have icons or access to files left on the desktop. The machine is otherwise functional. The menus work as does Ethernet, etc., so I could call up Firefox and write this email. Hmm - sounds like Nautilus isn't starting properly - what happens if you open a gnome-terminal window, and just try to run nautilus by itself? Do you get your desktop (plus a nautilus window)? -James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Courier-imap - can't connect
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:53:43 +0200 Johannes Skov Frandsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I have finally installed postfix which seems to provide the basic functionality of sending a mail. after trying to send a mail to my self using telnet, a file with the following content appears in my maildir (/home/joe/.maildir/new): Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by home.mindfield.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AAFE520022 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:18:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject:this is a test Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:18:58 +0200 (CEST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients:; This is a test. So I guess both the sending part and the reciving part went ok... Question: how do I check my mail by using a mail klient I have tried setting thunderbird to use the following info: imap: home.mindfield.dk user: joe When I try to access my inbox Thunderbird asks for password (a good thing of course) and I supply my linux account password. This is where the trouble starts Thunderbird claims it's not the valid password, but as I havent setup any other password when I installed Courier-imap what password dos it want? Any help appreciated. As I recall thunderbird doesn't like courier-imap very much. Have you experimented with different SSL/TLS settings? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-2.16.3 - problems with the desktop not painting - no icons or wallpaper
Mark Knecht wrote: I don't see anything very strange in top while the splash panel is up. Somewhere along the way the panel finishes waiting for whatever it's waiting for, I see a flashing dialog window that cannot be read, and then I have the desktop with nothing on it. Just the panel at the bottom. I got behavior like this recently when I updated libexif and failed to do a revdep-rebuild... is that possible? -- C. Lee Davis Fantasy Geographic Society http://fantasy.geographic.net/ GCB for GURPS 4e http://fantasy.geographic.net/project/4eGURPS -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-2.16.3 - problems with the desktop not painting - no icons or wallpaper
On 6/7/07, C Lee Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: I don't see anything very strange in top while the splash panel is up. Somewhere along the way the panel finishes waiting for whatever it's waiting for, I see a flashing dialog window that cannot be read, and then I have the desktop with nothing on it. Just the panel at the bottom. I got behavior like this recently when I updated libexif and failed to do a revdep-rebuild... is that possible? -- C. Lee Davis This is in fact exactly what happened. I don't know why I didn't see this. I was sure I had done a revdep-rebuild on that machine. I must have been wrong. Using the idea from James the terminal reported libexif wasn't installed. Emerging it solved the problems. Thanks to James and you for answering. Cheers, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-2.16.3 - problems with the desktop not painting - no icons or wallpaper
I had the same problem. And I have fixed it by remerging nautilus. -- Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] equery d problem
In my system, executing equery d package produces the following message !!! A file listed in the Manifest could not be found: /usr/portage/x11-plugins/noscript/noscript-1.1.4.8.070523.ebuild Any help? -- Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Switching to Bellsouth dial-up, trying to anyway. :-(
Dale wrote: maxim wexler wrote: Scuse me for jumping in mid-thread. I use old USR serial modems for dialup. I get em at the local thrift store for 5 bucks. Never had a problem. The lights _are_ useful. The switches on the back are set like this: HHLHLHHL 12345678 Don't use wvdial. Don't use kppp. Use pppconfig. HTH Maxim You're excused. LOLI suspect mine is a lot older than the USR you have. Bell South is looking for a v.90 or a v.92 compatible modem and mine is neither of these. Mine is likely about 20 years old, both from the features it has and the looks of it. LOL I did try wvdial, kppp and pppconfig. All did the same thing. I may give pppconfig a go with the other spare modem though, just to see if it will do something. My dip switch has 10 switches instead of 8 so yours is different. Thanks for the info. Dale :-) :-) :-) OK. Here is the update. I also updated the thread on the forums a bit ago. I got my new modem. All $17.55 worth. LOL Love that froogle. Anyway, it connected a lot better but still gave me a user name / password error. So, I called and checked with Bell South and they reset my password. After that, it connected and has worked fine. Please note, it did try to send my user name and password where before it did not. The modem was part of the problem but they had something messed up on their end too. I am getting the same error for my email and I plan to call them on that next. So, thanks to everyone for the replies and their help. We got it figured out and I am up and running. I'm still keeping a eye on the new phone box up the road. I am hoping to get DSL soon. They got the concrete slab poured. thumbs up Thanks everyone. Dale :-) :-) :-)
