Title: more effecient jess debuging
Question: Will jdb or some of the other shareware
(freeware) debugging tools work with Jess. I havent tried them yet but I know that
there are some that will work with other rulebased systems out there. Just wondered if anyone
else had tried any of
Excellent! As usual, Ernest cuts to the heart of the matter. GIGO
means just that. :-) Dr. Albert Einstein once said something to the
effect that if you can't explain your theory to a five-year-old then
your explanation is too complicated or you don't understand it yourself.
Another :-)
Hmmm lets see. Started in 2000.
Had two meetings. The link to the original document has
either expired or been deleted or is on another server somewhere. Last version was Jan of 2001. No concrete evidence of anything that I
can see on this link. Im not
sure how we can map an unknown
My only experience with JUnit was a bit of a disappointment. JUnit is
designed for testing procedural code, not declarative statements. The
JUnit tests that we ended up writing were hand-coded.
I guess that the thing is that JUnit is part of the XP concept. This
means that after you gather
: Re: JESS: more efficient jess debugging
I think James Owen wrote:
My only experience with JUnit was a bit of a disappointment. JUnit is
designed for testing procedural code, not declarative statements. The
JUnit tests that we ended up writing were hand-coded.
JUnit is definitely for testing
Without being too... hmm... can't think of the right softener for this
so I guess I'll just have to say it and get it over with. The GUI
debugging tool that comes with JRules is really quite excellent. You
can step through the rules, assign break points, watch the value of
variables, etc., much
Just to add fuel to the fire. :-) Jess (et. al.) are (as has been
stated here earlier) a declarative language, not a procedural language.
Back in 1999 I had a friend who was trying to write a program for a
lawyer to do jury selection. His problem with using Java was that he
was trying to do an
w.r.t. the statement below,
[Don't think there's such a thing as The Refraction Principle; Jess
has a particular behavior w.r.t. refraction, and other such behaviors
have been proposed.]
Hmmm... This is something that I had not realized until now. However,
section 2.8.1.3 of the Jess manual
Just to amplify what Ernest said below, let's assume that you are
checking to see if something does not exist. For example, we are asking
if there are NO red sports cars in the lot that have a 300hp or greater
motor. If there are no red sports cars like that, does the car have a
radio? Or, if
Well, a month later someone reads his back email and replies. (moi)
Never having used IDEA (but having used many, many other IDE programs
and editors) I found that paying $500 for some of these just to throw
them away a couple of years later OR to not be able to use them on the
next job because
PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Brad Cox, Ph.D.
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: JESS: Newbie needs help
On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 11:43, James Owen wrote:
As one who has used JUnit to test rules in a production environment:
Yes, you can write JUnit classes for testing
Well, one final bleat and then I'm going back to work. :-)
Being an advocate of vi on Unix and Slick Edit on WinDoze, I was
forced (almost at gun point) to use Eclipse the first time. I hated
it so much that I refused to find anything good about for the first two
or three weeks. Constantly
Excuse my buttinsky but I haven't responded to a Jess email in a really
long time and I was having withdrawal symptoms. ;-) Anyway, it would
seem that a rulebase is the wrong tool to use for your problem UNLESS
you just want to prove your point. (I once had a friend who wrote a
word processor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Instead of using java.util.Date, you might try java.util.Calendar.
Calendar allows after(), before() or equals(), all of which return a
boolean. Calendar also has returns Date getTime() and
setTime(Date) if those are already in your code somewhere.
I am going to storm this mailing list with questions. Please don't.
RTFM (Read the Fabulous Manual) first. Got through some old emails.
Hire a tutor. Anything but a firestorm of newbie questions that have
been answered already. Look here first for the answer
I'm thinking that this isn't declarative programming but more of a
procedural approach to problem solving. In declarative programming,
theoretically anyway, each rule should be incrementally independent as
much as possible. By putting the rules in a situation like that shown
below usually shows
- Original Message -
From: James Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Aspects and rules (was RE: JESS: Jason Morris interview)
I stands all I can stands and I can't stands no more! (Popeye the
Sailor Man)
As most of you may
and rules (was RE: JESS: Jason Morris interview)
I think James Owen wrote:
... But, back to the original supposition (Same
data, same rules, same engine) if you don't get the same result then
you have a real problem.
Only if time is part of the data. In a multithreaded environment
(a.k.a
Title: Message
I know
that we've beaten this to death, so I'm going to send this and I will NOT reply
to any more email on the subject..
Is it not true that a rules-based system (while even running the same rules and the same data) can have the facts
(data) asserted in a different order
Or, maybe you can intern() the String(s) that you created you can
probably find the problem. Maybe.
SDG
jco
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: JESS:
Not to be a nit-picker, but the Ph.D. dissertation was 1979. The 1982 reference is a four-pager in AI
magazine that had, basically, the same title.
Since then, to my knowledge, Dr. Forgy has not published anything on the
subject of the Rete algorithm.
SDG
jco
-Original
First, my deepest and most humble apologies to Ernest. You know how you
always mean to do something but you keep putting it on the back burner
because it doesn't produce income and has very few repercussions if you
don't do it? Well, that's what happened when Ernest and I were
discussing the
Jason, Rich and Ernest:
Actually, quite a bit of work has been done in this area. It followed
shortly after all of the speech-pattern-recognition stuff started. A
fellow named Sankar K. Pal started a program named MyPal wherein he
would be able to retrieve sense from nonsense typed in from the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of James Owen
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: JESS: Re: Restricted Language Query/ Natural Language
Parsing in Jess
Jason, Rich and Ernest:
Actually, quite a bit
Try a goal-driven approach. Group the rules into what you would ask if
you had this goal or that goal or another goal.
In your short example the goals might be
Determine Food Types (Tofu, meat, fish, veggies only)
Determine Tofu Types (meat simulations, non-meat simulations)
Determine Meat
Not to be a name-dropper (don't you just hate those guys?) but when
working with a large bank in England (OK, it was Lloyds) we ran 65,000
test cases against about 785 rules that dealt with pricing. Also, at a
major insurance company, I ran about 5,500 test cases against less than
10,000 rules
As I recall, salience in rulebased programming is akin to goto
statements in BASIC; a crutch for poor programing. In several books on
the subject (JIA ?) the comment usually is that while salience is
sometimes necessary more than three levels of salience should have a
really, really good
Just a side note here: It is most refreshing to see the big guns
weigh in with their thoughts and references. While some of it may be
extraneous rabbit trails it is, nevertheless, enlightening. I realize
that the Jess email list is supposed to be dedicated to solving the
so-called real
Ernest:
If you have even a pre-alpha version of the Eclipse plug-in for Jess
and would put it out for the group, I would re-name my first-born from
James C. Owen, II to Ernest Friedman-Hill-Owen. Maybe :-)
SDG
jco
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Michael Knapik wrote:
Wouldn't this be a perfect example of when NOT to use a rulebased
system? Meaning, that this is nothing more than a mathematical
calculation, get a user input, calculate and answer, display the
output. Static. No "real" intelligence? It "can" be done this way
but "should" it be done this way?
Ernest would not say this. Read The Fabulous Manual. Read "Jess In
Action" - commonly known as JIA. Try the examples. Read another book
or two. Honestly, all of this is explained in exquisite detail in both
the manual that comes with Jess and in JIA. Your thinking must be
changed such that you
Something that I've found that works for long (time wise, that is)
problems is to just physically watch memory. On "some" Unix systems
you can watch memory load, CPU load, etc., etc. as it is happening
since it uses some low level routines and presents them graphically. I
know that you can on
I did that once. Long, long ago in a land far, far away. A place
called VEA at FedEx. Virtual Enterprise Architecture. A time before
J2EE. J2EE solved the problem that I had solved way back then using
the pre-alpha version of Advisor, now called Blaze Advisor. By the
time you get through with
hat really IS what I meant in the earlier email.
Thanks for keeping me "straight."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think James Owen wrote:
One other thing, something that most "old timers" even forget. :-) If
you re-write equals for a class that already exists or
Steven:
Some BRMS (Business Rule Management System - fancy way to say rulebase)
use rulebase documentation much like JavaDoc and export to XML - MS
Word - etc. It shouldn't be too terribly difficult to write a Perl
script to go through the rules, pick out the /** begin and */ end
commands to
I think that one of the older emails (about November 2005) said that
we could NOT integrate Jess with Java. Is that correct and does it
still apply to the latest editions. That one is kind of giving me fits
right now. I thought it was my mistake until one of my co-workers
pointed out the
friedman_hill ernest j wrote:
I think James Owen wrote:
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
I "think" that one of the older emails (about November 2005) said that
we could NOT integrate Jess with Java. Is that correct and does it
still apply to the lates
Greetings:
Just a reminder that if you want to attend the October Rules Fest (ORF) on
the 22nd - 24th of October in Dallas, you might should make your reservation
now if you have not done so already. The students from the DFW area (10
major universities plus lots of colleges) will find out in
(a five-star - three Michelin stars - restaurant).
BTW, the trolley runs down the street of the hotel and connects to off-
site parking so you don't have to negotiate downtown traffic. And
there is a shuttle from the airport to the hotel.
SDG
James Owen
Senior Consultant / Architect
http://www.kbsc.com
-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/hamlet/hamlet.1.3.html
On May 28, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Jason Morris wrote:
BTW -- what are you going to do if you get more than 170 people
wanting to sign up?
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 3:25 PM, James Owen jco2...@att.net wrote:
Greetings to the Jess Users Group:
To those who
Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
902 Battelle Boulevard
P.O. Box 999, MSIN K7-90
Richland, WA 99352 USA
Office: 509-372-6568
Email: ronald.tay...@pnl.gov
www.pnl.gov
From: owner-jess-us...@sandia.gov [mailto:owner-jess-
us...@sandia.gov] On Behalf Of James Owen
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:26
the Application Code II
3 Attaching a User Interface
4 Question and Answers
If you have any problems with registering for JBC, ORF 2009 or getting
registered at the hotel, please let Chelanine or me know right away.
SDG
James Owen
Founder October Rules Fest
Senior Consultant
, the Agenda matching table, to see if the
engine can handle overloads such as this.
Check to see which rule is firing the most and you will probably find
your problem child somewhere in that general area.
SDG
James Owen
Founder October Rules Fest
Senior Consultant / Architect KBSC
http
[With Permission, of course]Greetings:This will be our penultimate email about October Rules Fest 2009 - but, even though it follows closely on the heels of the previous email, it's necessary. And it's a goodie. OurKeynote Speakerfor ORF 2009 isTom Cooper, co-author of "Rule-Based Programming in
Edson et al:
I rarely get involved with this kind of thing but since there are more than 10
emails on the same subject and since Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli and Dr.
Friedman-Hill really shouldn't be drawn into the discussion due to a conflict
of interest matter, and my friend and fellow
Ernest et al:
Sorry for the confusion on my part - which is why I included all of the email
lists. However, at one time (unless I have a really faulty memory chip)
programmers outside of the USA used to complain because they could not get the
source code (and sometimes the binary) because of
Although most folks won't complain, my only comment here is that the logic is
all contained in the action side (RHS) of the rule in the form of if-then-else
statements (basic Java) followed by more if-then-else (more basic Java)
statements. This is basically procedural code put into a rulebase
Attached... I ran these quite some time ago for most rulebased Java
engines.
Kochhar, Gaurav wrote:
Hi,
I am trying to create a Benchmark for finalizing a Rule Engine in
our Company. We need rule engine for a J2EE based application. I already
ran the pumps application in Jess examples.
http://herzberg.ca.sandia.gov/jess/user.shtml
sivan k wrote:
Hello
I would like to know where I can get JessWin.
Thanks
Jenny
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Has anyone ever thought about using the Sting.intern() method? It's
been used with other rulebased systems to ensure string location. I
have an example somewhere that I'll try and look up when I get back
from supper. If I don't do it tonight, someone remind me. Terrible
memory problems at my
thanks --- I do know that it does ensure the proper String object when
used in a rulebase. Do you have any idea about what kind of
performance hit you get compared to a Hashtable lookup?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think James Owen jco wrote:
Has anyone ever thought about using
Best answer is always the easiest. But one other heuristic that I like
to follow is to always express things in a positive manner rather than a
negated manner. If it works in the positive manner, reversing can lead
to incredibly long and complicated errors in logic. The other answer
about a
Normally I don't get into long-winded discussions on the Jess group
because it is, and should be, devoted to answering questions about
Jess. After all, it is the Jess User's Group, not the
Long-Winded-Rambling-What-About-That Group. However, Mitch wanted to
open up the following to
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