Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption (Guido Witmond)

2013-08-12 Thread Guido Witmond
Thank you for your quick response. I'm not convinced by your arguements yet. I comment in between. On 08/12/13 04:13, Francisco Ruiz wrote: In your message, you wrote: 1. I have to *run* it to get the hash of the application from the help page. That is already a leap of faith to run

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread danimoth
On 11/08/13 at 09:37pm, Francisco Ruiz wrote: I still have to read through the references you supply, but I can already see a misconception. They refer to the dangers of carrying out cryptography with javascript-containing dynamic pages. My previous posting referred to _perfectly static_ pages

Re: [liberationtech] Lavabit, Silent Circle both shut down

2013-08-12 Thread Arjen Kamphuis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/11/2013 12:35 AM, h0ost wrote: Hi Arjen, May I ask what Swiss providers would you recommend? (disclaimer: I am normally very hesitant to 'advertise' for specific companies since as a consultant I do my very best to remain independent from

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Ximin Luo
On 11/08/13 22:28, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: On 2013-08-11, at 10:36 PM, danimoth danim...@cryptolab.net wrote: On 11/08/13 at 01:10pm, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Twice again, privacy has taken a hit across the land. Lavabit and Silent Mail are gone, and to quote Phil Zimmermann, “the writing is on

Re: [liberationtech] Lavabit and End-point Security

2013-08-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
- Forwarded message from coderman coder...@gmail.com - Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:28:53 -0700 From: coderman coder...@gmail.com To: cypherpu...@cpunks.org Subject: Re: Lavabit and End-point Security one last cautionary tale: some time back i used the techniques discussed to harden some

[liberationtech] nettime Interview with Lavabit's Ladar Levison

2013-08-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
- Forwarded message from nettime's secret court staffer nett...@kein.org - Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 23:26:02 +0200 From: nettime's secret court staffer nett...@kein.org To: nettim...@mx.kein.org Subject: nettime Interview with Lavabit's Ladar Levison Reply-To: a moderated mailing list for

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Arjen Kamphuis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/11/2013 08:10 PM, Francisco Ruiz wrote: There’s no legal action that can shut down PassLok because it consist of pure code, and pure code is speech, protected from government interference under the 1^st amendment to the US Constitution. For

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 01:46:26PM +0200, Arjen Kamphuis wrote: Client-side encryption means a Free Software code stack running on a machine that is physically under your control at all time. Anything else is BS. Indeed. And it can be argued that we even need open, fully inspectable hardware,

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Ximin Luo
On 12/08/13 14:02, Ben Laurie wrote: On 12 August 2013 06:14, Ximin Luo infini...@gmx.com wrote: How is it possible to defend against timing attacks in JS? Any language theoretically can be complied into anything, but the JS runtime does not give you much control in what the CPU actually

[liberationtech] Hayden on 'Internet Freedom' as State Dept. Money Laundering Against US Security Interests

2013-08-12 Thread Collin Anderson
Libtech, A friend passed along little noticed comments by Gen. Hayden in June, which I would suggest are the most direct elaboration on the differences between the American security apparatus and piracy development efforts. The actual interview is long, but there is one statement in particular

Re: [liberationtech] Hayden on 'Internet Freedom' as State Dept. Money Laundering Against US Security Interests

2013-08-12 Thread Jillian C. York
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Collin Anderson col...@averysmallbird.comwrote: Alright so on the one hand we're fighting anonymity on the other hand we're chucking products out there to protect anonymity on the net. I've been saying that for years. Except...backwards. -- *Note: *I am

Re: [liberationtech] Hayden on 'Internet Freedom' as State Dept. Money Laundering Against US Security Interests

2013-08-12 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-12, at 8:53 PM, Collin Anderson col...@averysmallbird.com wrote: Libtech, A friend passed along little noticed comments by Gen. Hayden in June, which I would suggest are the most direct elaboration on the differences between the American security apparatus and piracy

Re: [liberationtech] Hayden on 'Internet Freedom' as State Dept. Money Laundering Against US Security Interests

2013-08-12 Thread Griffin Boyce
Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Here's the thing: you ultimately have two types of software that the U.S. is interested in funding: *Software Type A:* Software that protects useful dissidents and anyone else from all governments (to an extent), including the U.S. government. *Software Type B:*

[liberationtech] Bangladeshi activist in trouble

2013-08-12 Thread Yosem Companys
From: Katsiaficas, George katsiafic...@wit.edu I write because my friend and enormously active Bangladeshi human rights lawyer Adilur Rahman Khan was picked up by unmarked cars/police and given 5 days remand in Dhaka—equivalent to 5 days torture. His arrest will no doubt have a chilling effect

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Francisco Ruiz
Thanks for a thoughtful and extensive reply. Let me see if I'm understanding your position correctly. Running crypto code in a browser is inherently insecure because we don't really know what the browser is doing with it, regardless of whether it is communicating with a server. Of course, we can't

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Francisco Ruiz
Hey Arjen, you make a huge point. Unfortunately the Netherlands aren't any better this way, are they? Looking around, it seems the only safe place for a crypto server these days would be Switzerland. I'm ready to move my stuff over there. Does anybody know of a good, cheap, SSL-enabled web host

[liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Francisco Ruiz
Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way to deliver that hash to the public, and thus assure the authenticity of a piece of code, a public key, or whatnot. The problem is that the

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Griffin Boyce
John Cusack comes to mind - he's on the board of Freedom of the Press Foundation. ~Griffin On 08/12/2013 04:32 PM, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way to

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Richard Brooks
Some idle thoughts: Edward Snowden Bradley Manning Julian Assange Gen. Hayden Jacob or Nadim On 08/12/2013 04:32 PM, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Jayne Cravens
On 2013-08-12 15:32, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Does any one know of a celebrity who cares enough about computer security to be persuaded to take one minute of his/her time to read a hash before a camera? Hugh Grant has made privacy issues the focus of his Twitter feed. However, he is more

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Sarah A. Downey
Ashton Kutcher has talked publicly multiple times about the value of privacy, both in his personal life and as an investor. On Aug 12, 2013 4:38 PM, Richard Brooks r...@acm.org wrote: Some idle thoughts: Edward Snowden Bradley Manning Julian Assange Gen. Hayden Jacob or Nadim On

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Parker Higgins
On 8/12/13 1:45 PM, Sarah A. Downey wrote: Ashton Kutcher has talked publicly multiple times about the value of privacy, both in his personal life and as an investor. He made some comments today that were sort of unfortunate in that area.

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread danimoth
On 12/08/13 at 02:58pm, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Thanks for a thoughtful and extensive reply. Let me see if I'm understanding your position correctly. [snip, snip, snip] So, trusting the OS but not trusting the browser seems to me a curious case of double standard. They are made by the same

[liberationtech] Shrimping with the NSA

2013-08-12 Thread James S. Tyre
Prior to XKeyscore, the work of the NSA analysts was comparable with Forrest Gump on his shrimping boat off the coast of Alabama, reads the report from Griesheim. From the ocean of data, the report reads, the analysts pulled in a boot, a toilet seat, seaweed, and, there they are . three shrimp!

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Guido Witmond
On 08/12/2013 04:32 PM, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way to deliver that hash to the public, and thus assure the authenticity of a piece of code, a

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Guido Witmond
Dear professor Ruiz. The real issue is to create an *easy* way to do hash validation correctly. Reading a hash on youtube is not going to make it. You use HTTPS without DNSSEC and DANE. Please use those first. It solves a lot of your server validation issues. At least it allows your users'

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Yishay Mor
Cory Doctorow - sent from my phone. On Aug 12, 2013 9:33 PM, Francisco Ruiz r...@iit.edu wrote: Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way to deliver that hash to the public,

[liberationtech] FW: [Dewayne-Net] Are Hackers the Next Bogeyman Used to Scare Americans Into Giving Up More Rights?

2013-08-12 Thread michael gurstein
-Original Message- From: dewayne-...@warpspeed.com [mailto:dewayne-...@warpspeed.com] On Behalf Of Dewayne Hendricks Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 4:32 AM To: Multiple recipients of Dewayne-Net Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Are Hackers the Next Bogeyman Used to Scare Americans Into Giving Up

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Ali-Reza Anghaie
I'm sorry but aren't we spending a lot of time conflating code quality, secure coding practices, software distribution, .. with ~JavaScript in a browser~? There are alternate pathways, signed and delivered as a Dashboard widget via the Apple App Store for example. I'm not proposing ~that~ as

[liberationtech] TechChange Online Certificate Course - Mobiles for Int'l Development (Sep 30-Oct 25)

2013-08-12 Thread Nancy Ngo
Online Certificate Course - TC105 : Mobiles for International Development When: September 30 - October 25, 2013 Can mobile technology transform international development? Mobile technology is everywhere and is being applied in different ways across the world from financial services, public

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Arjen Kamphuis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Francisco, On 08/12/2013 10:04 PM, Francisco Ruiz wrote: Hey Arjen, you make a huge point. Unfortunately the Netherlands aren't any better this way, are they? They are not, being a fully signed up member of the Coalition of the Killing. And

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Tom O
So re Germany bring the bastion of Internet freedom blah blah, are we all forgetting about the Staatstrojaner? Or have we forgiven them for that now? On Tuesday, August 13, 2013, Arjen Kamphuis wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Francisco, On 08/12/2013 10:04 PM,

[liberationtech] Can JavaScript cryptography be trusted? (was: In defense of client-side encryption)

2013-08-12 Thread Tony Arcieri
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie a...@packetknife.comwrote: I'm sorry but aren't we spending a lot of time conflating code quality, secure coding practices, software distribution, .. with ~JavaScript in a browser~? I think the title of the thread has a lot to do with that.

[liberationtech] rsync.net Warrant Canary

2013-08-12 Thread Moritz Bartl
Nice idea. I would use a trusted timestamp instead of a headline, but anyway. What do you think, should I do this for torservers.net/onion.to? http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt rsync.net will also make available, weekly, a warrant canary in the form of a cryptographically signed

[liberationtech] Petition Google over banning Servers on Google Fiber?

2013-08-12 Thread Moritz Bartl
Hi, Thank you EFF for the well-written reminder: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/google-fiber-continues-awful-isp-tradition-banning-servers [...] No ISP will come forward with a tighter definition of “server” because they want to give themselves leeway to ban users and technologies that

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Collin Anderson
The problem with occasionally looking at Huffington Post is that I'm subjected to such things... Matt Damon: *He broke up with me, the Elysium star said. There are a lot of things that I really question, you know: the legality of the drone strikes, and these NSA revelations they’re, you know,

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Arjen Kamphuis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/13/2013 12:48 AM, Tom O wrote: So re Germany bring the bastion of Internet freedom blah blah, are we all forgetting about the Staatstrojaner? No we are not. But the difference between Germany and many other countries is the outrage and

[liberationtech] Iran's Internet and the Politics of a New President

2013-08-12 Thread Collin Anderson
Libtech, Some of you might be interested in the latest Small Media Infrastructure report, which covers the time between election day and inauguration. Unlike the prior report, which was heavily technical, this iteration largely focuses on the vibrant policy discussion happening around the state

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Steve Weis
Francisco, you assume that all browsers will save a static version of the page identically. This is not the case. I ran a test using 'wget https://passlok.site44.com' and Chrome's Save As. The former will actually match the hash value you've posted, but the latter does not. I spotted at least 5

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Kyle Maxwell
I didn't know LibTech had become the PassLok development mailing list. On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Collin Anderson col...@averysmallbird.com wrote: The problem with occasionally looking at Huffington Post is that I'm subjected to such things... Matt Damon: He broke up with me, the

Re: [liberationtech] In defense of client-side encryption

2013-08-12 Thread Arjen Kamphuis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/13/2013 01:58 AM, Tom O wrote: That's not a good enough reason to trust Germany. And I don't. I trust the German people to stand up when it counts. Because they know the consequence of failing to do so. Ensuring privacy is not a requirement

Re: [liberationtech] Does anyone know a celebrity who feels strongly about privacy issues?

2013-08-12 Thread Tony Arcieri
Penn Jilette On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Francisco Ruiz r...@iit.edu wrote: Quick request. In comments to a recent post, people seemed to agree that publishing a video of someone reading a hash might be a fairly hard-to-hack way to deliver that hash to the public, and thus assure the

Re: [liberationtech] rsync.net Warrant Canary

2013-08-12 Thread adrelanos
Moritz Bartl: Nice idea. I would use a trusted timestamp instead of a headline, but anyway. What do you think, should I do this for torservers.net/onion.to? http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt rsync.net will also make available, weekly, a warrant canary in the form of a

Re: [liberationtech] rsync.net Warrant Canary

2013-08-12 Thread adrelanos
Moritz Bartl: Nice idea. I would use a trusted timestamp instead of a headline, but anyway. What do you think, should I do this for torservers.net/onion.to? http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt rsync.net will also make available, weekly, a warrant canary in the form of a

[liberationtech] Adam Curtis on the nature of espionage

2013-08-12 Thread Gregory Foster
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 BBC Blogs (Aug 8) - BUGGER: Maybe The Real State Secret Is That Spies Aren't Very Good At Their Jobs and Don't Know Very Much About The World by Adam Curtis: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER It's really nice to see Adam Curtis

[liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Percy Alpha
Spideroak claims to use client-side encryption for desktop client but doesn't not use zero-knowledge password proof for mobile Apps or website portal. In light of Lavabit, spideroak could also forced to intercept password if users ever use mobile Apps or website login while being gagged . Then

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Tom O
Percy From https://spideroak.com/mobile How Mobile Works with SpiderOak’s Zero Knowledge Policy Here's the deal: when accessing your data via the SpiderOak website or on a mobile device you must enter your password. The password will then exist in the SpiderOak server memory for the duration

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Percy Alpha
@Tom, For this amount of time your password is stored in encrypted memory but to actually use the key, the key has to be in plain-text form for sometime, during which it can be (forced to )intercepted. If they can force Lavabit to intercept users' emails, why can't they ask spideroak to secretly

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Percy Alpha
@Tony, they claim to use zero-knowledge password proof for desktop client, but not for mobile or website. I wonder why, not accepted by App Store? -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Patrick Mylund Nielsen
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Percy Alpha percyal...@gmail.com wrote: @Tom, For this amount of time your password is stored in encrypted memory but to actually use the key, the key has to be in plain-text form for sometime, during which it can be (forced to )intercepted. If they can force

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Tony Arcieri
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Percy Alpha percyal...@gmail.com wrote: @Tony, they claim to use zero-knowledge password proof for desktop client, but not for mobile or website. I wonder why, not accepted by App Store? Can you please link specifically to what you're talking about? Their

Re: [liberationtech] Is spideroak really zero-knowledge?

2013-08-12 Thread Tom O
I'm not saying they cant. I'm saying they acknowledge it, althought the way they do makes it seem as if its a non-issue. I don't think it is. I prefer tahoe-lafs On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Percy Alpha percyal...@gmail.com wrote: @Tom, For this amount of time your password is stored in