Dear Davide,
As already pointed out, saying things like
The Chitarra italiana shown in many pictures has a lute bent pegbox
and not anymore the sickle shaped of the old quinterne
is rather begging the very question we are addressing in this thread.
regards
Martyn
---
By the way, for what it's worth, I've attempted to measure the string
length of the 4c instrument the boy is playing in the first image,
assuming a pupil separation of about 7cm. It comes out at something
like 55 - 60 cm. Not accurate, but a ballpark figure.
Bill
--
To get
Thank you Bill. Interesting - but what is it! Or, rather more to the
point, what did its player call it?
regards
Martyn
PS Alexander Batov has come up with some pretty convincing pics for
figure 8 Italian 4 course guitars.
--- On Tue, 29/1/13, William Samson
Dear Alexander,
Many thanks for these pretty convincing examples of 4 course Italian
guitars in figure8 shape from later 16th/early 17th century.
regards
Martyn
--- On Mon, 28/1/13, Alexander Batov
alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com wrote:
From: Alexander Batov
Further to the below, on reflection I may be mistaken to describe the
Teniers picture as an Italian representation - whilst he worked mainly
in a part of the Hapsburg dominions I think a link to Italy is a bit
too speculative. But the pilaster representation is very clearly
Dear Martyn,
we can discuss about which music they played on this lute shaped guitar and
which music was played on the figure-eight small renaissance guitar but not
about its name in Italy during the XVIIth century.
When the spanish 5 course guitar became well known in Italy there was no more
On 29/01/2013 09:45, William Samson wrote:
By the way, for what it's worth, I've attempted to measure the string
length of the 4c instrument the boy is playing in the first image,
assuming a pupil separation of about 7cm. It comes out at something
like 55 - 60 cm. Not accurate,
Well as regards the instrument illustrated - I'll set the cat among the
pigeons and suggest that it might be tuned in the same
way as the baroque guitar. It is very interesting that it is a lute-shaped
5-course instrument.
As Martyn has pointed out, the second section of Calvi's Intavolatura di
Hello Martyn,
I understand perfectly well that the Tenier's picture has nothing to do
with the 'Italian representation', and I'd never meant to represent it
that way. That particular set of the pictures, as well as the other one
further down the page ('anjo com viola' from Abrantes,
Another couple to ponder - the little lute-shaped instrument on top of
the Italian virginals has nine pegs I think - so another illustration
of a 5-courser.
[1]http://sdrv.ms/WcD8fZ
Then there's the famous engraving by Durer (1525) showing a lute. Up
until now I'd assumed it
Dear Monica,
Some of what you say about Calvi's collection makes sense - that the
intabulated pieces are different from anything else in the 5-course
repertoire.
But I'm puzzled why you object to translating 'chitarra' as 'guitar' in
the context of Calvi's collection which
Dear Alexander,
I certainly did not mean to give the impression that you had suggested
the Tenier picture had anything to do with Italian guitars of the
period - it was purely my mistake which I tried to correct. But clearly
clumsily and I'm sorry for not making it clearer.
How do you know that this instrument is a 4-course guitar. There is no way
of telling as far as I can see that is intended to be plucked rather than
played with a bow.
As ever
Monica
The only evidence that I'm aware of for the existence of figure-of-eight
shaped 4-course guitar in the
Contrary to what you suggest - we do know that chitarriglia is an Italian
term
for a small guitar. I understand that it is an Italianized version of the
Spanish
diminutive - guitarrilla. It is used to refer to the instrument in 5-course
guitar books fairly indiscrimately - i.e. without
How do I know? Well, because it would hardly ever occur to me that the
instrument with such a distinctive body and peg head shape, number of
strings, and in the place and time to be played with a bow. But if
that's not a problem for you, make of it what you will, it's entirely
your choice. I
On 29/01/2013 14:39, Monica Hall wrote:
How do you know that this instrument is a 4-course guitar. There is no way
of telling as far as I can see that is intended to be plucked rather than
played with a bow.
We know for three reasons:
1. The instrument has a flat fingerboard and a
Well thanks for the enlarged image - but it doesn't give us a clearer
picture of the instrument - for example we can't see the sound holes or the
bridge. In fact it is not entirely clear whether it is the front of back
view of the
instrument.
It also seems to bear very little resemblance to
Very pretty!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 29, 2013, at 11:37 AM, Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
Just to get us away from all the bickering...
[1]http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk
Rob
--
References
1. http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk
To get on or off this list see
Lovely - a soothing note to end the day on.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com
To: Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:37 PM
Subject: [LUTE] 6c guittar
Just to get us away from all the bickering...
What a gorgeous sound!
Now are you SURE it's a 'guittar'? Not a Gittariglia? Or a
Kitherone? Or a Banjino Scotsese? Or a Mandolele Giorgio Formbyana?
Or a Strattolino Hankus B. Marviniensis?. . .
Looking forward to hearing it in the flesh on Saturday at the Scottish
Lute
Thanks, all. Love the 'Banjino Scotsese'!
On 29 January 2013 18:11, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
What a gorgeous sound!
Now are you SURE it's a 'guittar'? Not a Gittariglia? Or a
Kitherone? Or a Banjino Scotsese? Or a Mandolele Giorgio Formbyana?
Or a
I certainly can't speak for Martyn, but don't detect any suppositions of
self-evident terminology in what he's written to this thread. I can speak
for me, and what Martyn has written does speak to my own skepticism. I
perceive a great difference between In spite of Meucci's article, I'm not
Surprised by your suggestion ...? I'm not quite sure how to describe it
if somebody would call a rat a guinea pig, that sort of surprise ...
Anyway, as regards to your interpretation, I've already said what I
wanted to say. I'm afraid I've got no time to carry on with it in your
vein of
On 29/01/2013 18:11, William Samson wrote:
What a gorgeous sound!
Now are you SURE it's a 'guittar'? Not a Gittariglia? Or a
Kitherone? Or a Banjino Scotsese? Or a Mandolele Giorgio Formbyana?
Or a Strattolino Hankus B. Marviniensis?. . .
I've just left a compliment to Rob
Hi Stuart,
Yes, the terms for plucked instruments are confusing all the time. Even
this day - if you say guitar, some people think of the electric, other
of the jazz, folk or even other instruments... However, I believe you
mixed up something in my argument. The English guit(t)ar I
Now this will be piss me off right royally if you nutters start turning my
video into an excuse for ranting about what an effing guitar is! Just listen to
the damn thing, and keep your mouth shut.
:-)
Rob
www.robmackillop.net
On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:59, Pieter Van Tichelen
Yep!
;-)
Lex
Op 29 jan 2013, om 21:40 heeft Rob MacKillop het volgende geschreven:
Now this will be piss me off right royally if you nutters start turning my
video into an excuse for ranting about what an effing guitar is! Just listen
to the damn thing, and keep your mouth shut.
:-)
[sheepishly] ok...
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Rob MacKillop
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:40 PM
To: pie...@vantichelen.name
Cc: Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c guittar
Now this will be piss me off right royally if
Well - you may not wish to discuss it further - but the more I look at the
instrument the odder it seems to be. In particular the ribs seem to curve
inwards so that the back is wider than the front/table and it has a very
shallow body. This is more characteristic of the violin. The violin does
B-b-but Tinctoris said
Sean
On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
Now this will be piss me off right royally if you nutters start turning my
video into an excuse for ranting about what an effing guitar is! Just listen to
the damn thing, and keep your mouth shut.
:-)
Rob
It's not a guitar anyway- just an ordinary Caledonian Cobza. Paleolithic
Pictish cave paintings depict it quite clearly, along with primitive
peat fired pot stills. The musical instrument was a developed from
paddles used for stirring the mash in the early Uisge Beatha
experiments. In
Oh dear - sorry if I have given the wrong impression about what Martyn was
saying.
We sometimes get at cross-purposes and get cross with one another but I
think we are on friendly enough terms not to take offense.
Apologies if you or he see it differently.
And now as Rob suggests - let's
Oh yes- that's a Dean Guitttar.
On 1/29/2013 1:16 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
It's not a guitar anyway- just an ordinary Caledonian Cobza.
Paleolithic Pictish cave paintings depict it quite clearly, along with
primitive peat fired pot stills. The musical instrument was a
developed from paddles
How about playing that ancient Ink Spot's tune, I love my banjo in
secret?
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:40:16 +
To: pie...@vantichelen.name
CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c guittar
Now this will be piss me off right
Excellent plan.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: Monica Hall [mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:16 PM
To: Braig, Eugene
Cc: Lutelist
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: 4 course guitar in Italy
Oh dear - sorry if I have given the wrong impression about what Martyn was
This ancient Flemish tune, I feel hurt inside, is arranged for lute
in a modern way, by Gilbert Isbin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8naohLJx6-gfeature=youtu.be
Stuart
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