Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

Dude, that's so awesome. You are an inspiration.


Thanks for sharing that. :)


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) <g...@greglow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 1:52:03 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

A great example of the problem is that almost everyone that’s ever been on 
shows like “Biggest Loser” are now heavier than when they went on the show. 
Worse, most now have slower metabolisms and are worse off than if they’d never 
heard of the show. Yet that sort of caloric reduction and exercise is still 
what most medicos preach, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I’ve been type 2 for a few years. I know that if I’d followed what the diabetes 
educator told me, I’d still be on medication, probably moving towards insulin 
injections.

Instead, I removed the need for it within 6 months. Hope to never need it 
again. But carbs (and particularly sugar) were the culprit for me.

I recently had a specialist ask me what my HBA1C was like. I said “last time it 
was 5.8”. He asked me how I kept it down. I said “by modifying what I eat”. He 
said “I find that extremely hard to believe”. And I’m sure, based on what he’s 
been taught, that that’s what he expected. So he did another test and it was 
5.7.

The look on his face and his “that’s remarkable” comment was worth it.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> 
|http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 3:40 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends over 
this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its OT, its 
very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary life style.

There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of energy.  
The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is energy in 
(kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving, thinking, living).  
It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the energy is in. If you use 
more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.

I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing this, I 
was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little difficulty.  People 
mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This doesn't somehow override 
conservation of energy.  It just means you have to continually monitor how your 
weight is changing based on the kilojoules in/out.  As your body becomes more 
efficient at absorbing energy and more efficient at living, you will need to 
decrease the kilojoules in to compensate.

My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake 
(averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going down, I 
decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight again.  When I 
started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I was eating closer to 
1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I had decreased it to 6000 
kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate healthier and spent less money on 
food.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.


On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Nope.

If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have 
insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to 
lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to 
append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can never 
delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

Insulin = store only.

It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories were 
high carb/sugars. Try it.

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

Sure, you have to be careful. Ketosis is a natural state, you are born in 
Ketosis and you often wake up in Ketosis. Being an insulin dependent diabetic 
is probably not normal. (ie its a disease. Something isn't working right). But 
back before people had insulin to inject, the way to treat diabetes was through 
diet alone. Nowdays people don't want to change their precious delicious 
highcarb diets so the doctors give out insulin so they don't have to. It would 
be like giving a kid with a peanut alergy an Epipen and say here you go. heres 
a plate of peanuts, go crazy.


I have heard people with diabetes can iron out the volatile sugar spikes in 
their blood by going LCHF. A less reactive blood sugar levels has to be easier 
to keep right. Not being diabetic, I don't know first hand. It's true everyone 
are different. But we are all chemical machines.


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of mike smith <meski...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 1:36:18 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

Ketogenisis is too close to ketoaccidosis[1]  for someone with insulin 
dependent diabetes to want to try.  But if you don't, then sure :)


Vegan diets, I suspect work because you have to monitor what you eat to get a 
balanced diet.

Avoid sugar?  I do that.  Also 'empty carbs'   It's unlikely you can lose 
weight through exercise alone.If you're on this list, you're a coder, not a 
brickie/labourer. :)


Mike


[1] you even measure it the same way!!


On 20 Jun. 2017 2:33 pm, "Bec C" 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Nope.

If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have 
insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to 
lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to 
append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can never 
delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

Insulin = store only.

It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories were 
high carb/sugars. Try it.

On 20 Jun. 2017 12:01 pm, Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Never said a calorie is a calorie. Anyway try it, cut calories by like 300-500 
a day and you will lose weight.

Anyway this post was about sit stand desks...

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'

Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar Film, 
or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic 
biochemistry (which is well established) absolutely disagrees with this. Fat, 
glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for metabolism, which 
makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself accused of being an 
invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film (admittedly a sample size 
of one) he puts on significant weight without changing total calorific intake, 
by swapping fat for sugar (and explains why).

I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case Against 
Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The historical 
context is particularly damming.

On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read either. 
I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.

Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.

As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a whole 
different thing.

Anyway too off topic now

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans on 
this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy diets (due 
to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing inherent in veganism 
that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the vegan society pages 
confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. 
Plenty of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans on toast is 
packed with the stuff.

It's *not* about the calories. 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

OOTT= off off-topic topic

On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight, very 
hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wr

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

I understand conservation of energy, the problem here is that extrapolating
from that to weight loss strategy is a specious argument. If you reduce the
energy intake on a human you don't immediately start triggering fat
burning: you can also trigger reduced effort expended (both directly, and a
reduction in normal metabolic processes) as well as burning of muscle
tissue (which won't help either). If the person in question is actually
metabolically unable to burn their fat, then you will starve them to coma
and then death. The energy as stored fat has to be present *and available
for use* before they're going to get thin this way.

So *if* you can reduce their calorific intake and *if* you can maintain
their energy output, it still might not be *fat* that's being consumed for
the balance. Would you lose weight? Not necessarily: consider that the
starvation may even cause retention of a low-calorie item (eg water) that
could actually increase overall mass. Your body is not a fission reactor:
E=MC2 doesn't apply here.

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

6 months and he lost 80lb
>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>> from the outside.
>>
>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
>> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
>> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
>> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
>> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>> cheese.
>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>> elist. :)
>>
>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>> lose it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stephen
>> --
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on
>> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>
>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
>> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
>> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
>> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>
>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>
>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
>> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
>> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey folks
>>
>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
>> in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
>> good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
piers
more pedantry at http://piers7.blogspot.com/

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Richards]

I should point out the significant but possibly overlooked statement:
"kilojoules
_absorbed_ from food" as opposed to "consumed".  They are different.  The
path a particular chemical takes in our body ultimately doesn't matter.  If
the useful energy we ultimately get from everything we eat is greater than
what we use, we will gain weight. If it's less, we will lose weight.
There's no way around this.  If there was, you would be a perpetual motion
machine.

Of course, there are other considerations here. Namely health.  Eating
nothing but 8700 kJ of glucose every day will not end well.  I personally
found I was forced to eat much healthier to achieve my kilojoule targets
while still having a reasonable meal.  Food with high glucose made me
hungry quicker so I avoided it, etc.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 20 June 2017 at 15:48, Tony Wright  wrote:

> When I was a wee lad I remember doing science experiments that showed that
> not all compounds were equal, and some chemical reactions produced more
> energy than others. If you consume food that doesn't digest it might have
> lots of calories but you won't be consuming any of those calories. So this
> whole idea of calories consumed equalling calories stored or used doesn't
> actually make sense to me. It's the compounds that count and the chemical
> reactions on those compounds. Glucose gets metabolised all over the body,
> but fructose gets digested only in the liver. It's a totally different set
> of chemical reactions going on.
>
> On 20 Jun 2017 3:39 PM, "David Richards" 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends
>> over this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its
>> OT, its very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary
>> life style.
>>
>> There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of
>> energy.  The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is
>> energy in (kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving,
>> thinking, living).  It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the
>> energy is in. If you use more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.
>>
>> I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing
>> this, I was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little
>> difficulty.  People mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This
>> doesn't somehow override conservation of energy.  It just means you have to
>> continually monitor how your weight is changing based on the kilojoules
>> in/out.  As your body becomes more efficient at absorbing energy and more
>> efficient at living, you will need to decrease the kilojoules in to
>> compensate.
>>
>> My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule
>> intake (averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped
>> going down, I decrease my target daily average until I started losing
>> weight again.  When I started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before
>> that I was eating closer to 1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target
>> weight, I had decreased it to 6000 kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy,
>> ate healthier and spent less money on food.
>>
>> David
>>
>> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>>
>> On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Nope.

 If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will
 have insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode.
 Impossible to lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

 To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able
 to append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can
 never delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

 Insulin = store only.

 It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower
 calories were high carb/sugars. Try it.

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

As an ex-scientist, and generally fairly technical person, this is always
the argument I've previously believed. However, the problem with this
mindset is that it does assume that the body is just a store for energy,
and that all energy within that system is accessed equally and
symmetrically. Instead we have a range of different biochemical pathways
for different ways of burning energy, and they are *not* symmetric and
equal. You can burn sugar or fat from the bloodstream relatively easily,
but it's much harder to burn stored fat.

So if calorific intake is lower than energy expended, rather than getting
thinner, you get hungry and weak (prior to the point that you trigger
ketosis).

On 20 June 2017 at 13:39, David Richards 
wrote:

> I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends
> over this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its
> OT, its very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary
> life style.
>
> There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of
> energy.  The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is
> energy in (kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving,
> thinking, living).  It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the
> energy is in. If you use more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.
>
> I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing
> this, I was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little
> difficulty.  People mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This
> doesn't somehow override conservation of energy.  It just means you have to
> continually monitor how your weight is changing based on the kilojoules
> in/out.  As your body becomes more efficient at absorbing energy and more
> efficient at living, you will need to decrease the kilojoules in to
> compensate.
>
> My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake
> (averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going
> down, I decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight
> again.  When I started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I
> was eating closer to 1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I
> had decreased it to 6000 kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate
> healthier and spent less money on food.
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
> On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C  wrote:
>
>> I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have
>>> insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to
>>> lose ANY weight if you are only storing.
>>>
>>> To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able
>>> to append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can
>>> never delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.
>>>
>>> Insulin = store only.
>>>
>>> It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower
>>> calories were high carb/sugars. Try it.
>>>
>>>
>>>


-- 
piers
more pedantry at http://piers7.blogspot.com/

RE: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[罗格雷格博士]

Yep, it’s the same logic that got cholesterol in so much trouble. They assumed 
that eating cholesterol increased your cholesterol level. Never been true 
though yet it was widely promoted and stopped people eating eggs, etc. for 
decades.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> 
|http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 3:48 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

When I was a wee lad I remember doing science experiments that showed that not 
all compounds were equal, and some chemical reactions produced more energy than 
others. If you consume food that doesn't digest it might have lots of calories 
but you won't be consuming any of those calories. So this whole idea of 
calories consumed equalling calories stored or used doesn't actually make sense 
to me. It's the compounds that count and the chemical reactions on those 
compounds. Glucose gets metabolised all over the body, but fructose gets 
digested only in the liver. It's a totally different set of chemical reactions 
going on.

On 20 Jun 2017 3:39 PM, "David Richards" 
<ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com<mailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com>> wrote:
I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends over 
this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its OT, its 
very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary life style.

There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of energy.  
The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is energy in 
(kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving, thinking, living).  
It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the energy is in. If you use 
more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.

I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing this, I 
was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little difficulty.  People 
mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This doesn't somehow override 
conservation of energy.  It just means you have to continually monitor how your 
weight is changing based on the kilojoules in/out.  As your body becomes more 
efficient at absorbing energy and more efficient at living, you will need to 
decrease the kilojoules in to compensate.

My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake 
(averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going down, I 
decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight again.  When I 
started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I was eating closer to 
1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I had decreased it to 6000 
kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate healthier and spent less money on 
food.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.


On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Nope.

If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have 
insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to 
lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to 
append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can never 
delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

Insulin = store only.

It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories were 
high carb/sugars. Try it.

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

So the mechanism as I understand it is like this:

- high glucose in bloodstream causes insulin release
- insulin tells cells to burn glucose rather than fat for energy
consumption, but also triggers fat takeup (blood to storage)
- ergo fat + glucose in your blood will cause you to store fat
- sucrose is half glucose and half fructose
- fructose is metabolized only in the liver, and into fat. Fructose - it's
argued - was relatively rare in paleo times, so we don't really handle it
as well as glucose and fat
- ergo, if you consume sucrose (glucose+fructose), *half* of your calorific
intake (the fructose) will be converted into fat, because the other half
(glucose) is triggering insulin release

Now clearly if after you come down from your glucose high you starve
yourself into ketosis, then you'll burn the fat back off. But if it's not
that long till your next sucrose-laden meal, then that's not going to
happen - ketosis takes *three days* to kick in. And because all those
calories from the fat were mopped up out of the bloodstream, you only got
to burn half of your meal off. So you start feeling hungry.

Taubes makes the point that it's not that overeating causes obesity, but
that obesity causes overeating: fat and starving.

RE: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[罗格雷格博士]

A great example of the problem is that almost everyone that’s ever been on 
shows like “Biggest Loser” are now heavier than when they went on the show. 
Worse, most now have slower metabolisms and are worse off than if they’d never 
heard of the show. Yet that sort of caloric reduction and exercise is still 
what most medicos preach, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I’ve been type 2 for a few years. I know that if I’d followed what the diabetes 
educator told me, I’d still be on medication, probably moving towards insulin 
injections.

Instead, I removed the need for it within 6 months. Hope to never need it 
again. But carbs (and particularly sugar) were the culprit for me.

I recently had a specialist ask me what my HBA1C was like. I said “last time it 
was 5.8”. He asked me how I kept it down. I said “by modifying what I eat”. He 
said “I find that extremely hard to believe”. And I’m sure, based on what he’s 
been taught, that that’s what he expected. So he did another test and it was 
5.7.

The look on his face and his “that’s remarkable” comment was worth it.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> 
|http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 3:40 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends over 
this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its OT, its 
very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary life style.

There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of energy.  
The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is energy in 
(kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving, thinking, living).  
It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the energy is in. If you use 
more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.

I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing this, I 
was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little difficulty.  People 
mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This doesn't somehow override 
conservation of energy.  It just means you have to continually monitor how your 
weight is changing based on the kilojoules in/out.  As your body becomes more 
efficient at absorbing energy and more efficient at living, you will need to 
decrease the kilojoules in to compensate.

My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake 
(averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going down, I 
decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight again.  When I 
started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I was eating closer to 
1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I had decreased it to 6000 
kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate healthier and spent less money on 
food.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.


On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Nope.

If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have 
insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to 
lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to 
append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can never 
delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

Insulin = store only.

It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories were 
high carb/sugars. Try it.

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Tony Wright]

When I was a wee lad I remember doing science experiments that showed that
not all compounds were equal, and some chemical reactions produced more
energy than others. If you consume food that doesn't digest it might have
lots of calories but you won't be consuming any of those calories. So this
whole idea of calories consumed equalling calories stored or used doesn't
actually make sense to me. It's the compounds that count and the chemical
reactions on those compounds. Glucose gets metabolised all over the body,
but fructose gets digested only in the liver. It's a totally different set
of chemical reactions going on.

On 20 Jun 2017 3:39 PM, "David Richards" 
wrote:

> I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends
> over this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its
> OT, its very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary
> life style.
>
> There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of
> energy.  The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is
> energy in (kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving,
> thinking, living).  It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the
> energy is in. If you use more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.
>
> I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing
> this, I was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little
> difficulty.  People mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This
> doesn't somehow override conservation of energy.  It just means you have to
> continually monitor how your weight is changing based on the kilojoules
> in/out.  As your body becomes more efficient at absorbing energy and more
> efficient at living, you will need to decrease the kilojoules in to
> compensate.
>
> My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake
> (averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going
> down, I decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight
> again.  When I started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I
> was eating closer to 1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I
> had decreased it to 6000 kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate
> healthier and spent less money on food.
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
> On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C  wrote:
>
>> I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have
>>> insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to
>>> lose ANY weight if you are only storing.
>>>
>>> To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able
>>> to append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can
>>> never delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.
>>>
>>> Insulin = store only.
>>>
>>> It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower
>>> calories were high carb/sugars. Try it.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Richards]

I've been avoiding this conversation.  I've had arguments with friends over
this.  However, I decided to give my two kilojoules since, while its OT,
its very relevant to IT types that generally tend to have a sedentary life
style.

There is a fundamental law of physics at work here: Conservation of
energy.  The change in energy in a system (fat, glucose, protein, etc) is
energy in (kilojoules absorbed from food) minus energy out (moving,
thinking, living).  It doesn't matter what your body does or what form the
energy is in. If you use more energy than you absorb, you will lose weight.

I've counted kilojoules, tracked exercise and monitored weight.  Doing
this, I was able to lose weight quite successfully and with little
difficulty.  People mention hormones and starvation mode, etc.  This
doesn't somehow override conservation of energy.  It just means you have to
continually monitor how your weight is changing based on the kilojoules
in/out.  As your body becomes more efficient at absorbing energy and more
efficient at living, you will need to decrease the kilojoules in to
compensate.

My anecdotal example:  I would set a target average daily kilojoule intake
(averaged over each week) and monitor my weight.  When it stopped going
down, I decrease my target daily average until I started losing weight
again.  When I started, my daily target was around 8000 kJ (before that I
was eating closer to 1 kJ).  By the time I got to my target weight, I
had decreased it to 6000 kJ.  I was less hungry, had more energy, ate
healthier and spent less money on food.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 20 June 2017 at 14:32, Bec C  wrote:

> I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price  wrote:
>
>> Nope.
>>
>> If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have
>> insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to
>> lose ANY weight if you are only storing.
>>
>> To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able
>> to append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can
>> never delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.
>>
>> Insulin = store only.
>>
>> It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories
>> were high carb/sugars. Try it.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

is point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>>>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some 
>>>>>> .net
>>>>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com,
>>>>>> and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost
>>>>>> 80lb and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>>>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his
>>>>>> town keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. 
>>>>>> Will
>>>>>> be seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>>>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects
>>>>>> of too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be
>>>>>> seen from the outside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>>>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was 
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>>>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>>>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>>>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way.
>>>>>> Recently made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with
>>>>>> Parmesan cheese.
>>>>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on
>>>>>> this elist. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one
>>>>>> of those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not
>>>>>> losing weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that
>>>>>> regard.  You can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is 
>>>>>> important
>>>>>> for other reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use
>>>>>> it, you lose it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>
>>>>>> on behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>>>>>> *To:* ozDotNet
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand
>>>>>> desks. I sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the
>>>>>> health issues, but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable
>>>>>> quality converters (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I
>>>>>> just concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and
>>>>>> having all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to
>>>>>> read up on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating
>>>>>>> insulin properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was
>>>>>>> feeling unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem
>>>>>>>> for example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel
>>>>>>>>> that I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a
>>>>>>>>> while. I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey folks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was
>>>>>>>>>> interested in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried
>>>>>>>>>> standing get any good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or 
>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>> back to only sitting?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>


-- 
piers
more pedantry at http://piers7.blogspot.com/

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[mike smith]

le of weeks. Will be
>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>> from the outside.
>>
>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
>> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
>> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
>> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
>> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>> cheese.
>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>> elist. :)
>>
>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>> lose it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stephen
>> --
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on
>> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>
>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
>> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
>> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
>> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>
>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>
>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
>> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
>> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey folks
>>
>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
>> in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
>> good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

 Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
> cheese.
> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
> elist. :)
>
> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
> lose it.
>
> Cheers,
> Stephen
> ------------------
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on
> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>
> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>
> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tonyw...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','therut...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>
>
> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tonyw...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've
> been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not
> regretful for one second that I have the option.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','therut...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Hey folks
>
> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested in
> how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any good
> (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I sent 
a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues, but I 
think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters (Varidesk 
etc) that's really changed things.

I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just 
concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having all 
meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up on (and 
cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.

On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,

No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin 
properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling 
unwell/lethargic from sitting.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for example)? 
If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?


On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,

It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've been 
sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not 
regretful for one second that I have the option.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey folks

I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested in how 
people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any good (or 
bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?

Cheers

RE: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[罗格雷格博士]

Yep, agreed. And any of Gary Taub’s content.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> 
|http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Piers Williams
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 1:30 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'

Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar Film, 
or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic 
biochemistry (which is well established) absolutely disagrees with this. Fat, 
glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for metabolism, which 
makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself accused of being an 
invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film (admittedly a sample size 
of one) he puts on significant weight without changing total calorific intake, 
by swapping fat for sugar (and explains why).

I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case Against 
Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The historical 
context is particularly damming.

On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read either. 
I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.

Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.

As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a whole 
different thing.

Anyway too off topic now

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams 
<piers.willi...@gmail.com<mailto:piers.willi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans on 
this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy diets (due 
to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing inherent in veganism 
that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the vegan society pages 
confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. 
Plenty of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans on toast is 
packed with the stuff.

It's *not* about the calories. 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

OOTT= off off-topic topic

On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight, very 
hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost 6kg 
in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net people may 
know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com<http://2ketodudes.com>, 
and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb 
and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town keto 
for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be seeing the 
sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of too 
much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen from the 
outside.

One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget to 
eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit late. 
Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked right 
through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a drive from 
places to eat. Barely noticed.
Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently made 
deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan cheese.
So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this elist. :)

Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of those 
motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing weight. 
What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You can lose 
weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other reasons. I.e. 
Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Cheers,
Stephen

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
<ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>> on behalf 
of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com<mailto:piers.willi...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [O

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Never said a calorie is a calorie. Anyway try it, cut calories by like
300-500 a day and you will lose weight.

Anyway this post was about sit stand desks...

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'
>
> Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar
> Film, or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic
> biochemistry (which is well established) *absolutely* disagrees with
> this. Fat, glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for
> metabolism, which makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself
> accused of being an invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film
> (admittedly a sample size of one) he puts on significant weight without
> changing total calorific intake, by swapping fat for sugar (and explains
> why).
>
> I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case
> Against Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The
> historical context is particularly damming.
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
>> either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.
>>
>> Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.
>>
>> As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
>> whole different thing.
>>
>> Anyway too off topic now
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
>>> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
>>> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
>>> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
>>> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
>>> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
>>> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>>>
>>> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
>>> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lust
>>> ig-john-yudkin
>>>
>>> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>>>
>>> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>>>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some 
>>>>> .net
>>>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com,
>>>>> and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost
>>>>> 80lb and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his
>>>>> town keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. 
>>>>> Will
>>>>> be seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects
>>>>> of too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be
>>>>> seen from the outside.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was 
>>>>> running
>>>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>>>> cheese.
>>>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>>>> elist. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'

Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar
Film, or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic
biochemistry (which is well established) *absolutely* disagrees with this.
Fat, glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for metabolism,
which makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself accused of
being an invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film (admittedly a
sample size of one) he puts on significant weight without changing total
calorific intake, by swapping fat for sugar (and explains why).

I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case
Against Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The
historical context is particularly damming.

On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
> either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.
>
> Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.
>
> As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
> whole different thing.
>
> Anyway too off topic now
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
>> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
>> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
>> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
>> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
>> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
>> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>>
>> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
>> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lust
>> ig-john-yudkin
>>
>> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>>
>> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his
>>>> town keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will
>>>> be seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>>> from the outside.
>>>>
>>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>>> cheese.
>>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>>> elist. :)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>>>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>>>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>>>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>>>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>>>> lose it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Stephen
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>
>>>> on behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Connors]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 11:18 Stephen Price 
wrote:

> Shall we try to bring religion, politics and favourite operating systems
> into the thread next? :)
>

[image: pasted1]
-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Fake news by Stephen

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> OOOTT:
> Controlling calories has no effect on weight loss. The simple reason for
> this is that the body adapts its energy usage based on the calories in. Not
> the other way around.
> Eat more calories and your body will waste more. Eat less and it will go
> into low power mode. If your body energy consumption did not change then
> yes, calories in would be a good way of controlling your weight. It
> doesn't.
> Confirmed through science experiments with mice. Feed them more, and they
> run around lots. Feed them less and they will become lethargic and not move
> much.
>
> Chris, I've been toying with that idea on occasionally carbing it up, as
> well as the occasional fasting. There's a guy named Dave Feldman (
> http://cholesterolcode.com/) who's essentially an IT guy who went keto
> and found his cholesterol blood test shot through the roof. Being a data
> guy (like many of us are) he proceeded to start collecting data to see the
> bigger picture. 150+ blood tests later (in 18 month period!) he found that
> altering your calories in would modify what your liver produced in a three
> day sliding window. Fascinating to read.
> I actually found the same thing. My doctor freaked out when my cholesterol
> shot up, so I did this experiment and ate 20,000 kilojoules per day for
> three days (it was a challenge!!) then had another blood test. My
> cholesterol dropped 13% from my blood test a week earlier. Not as much as
> I'd have liked but still proved the body is way more complicated and agile
> than people think. It adapts.
> Had a heart scan just to be sure and calcium score was zero, all normal.
>
> Shall we try to bring religion, politics and favourite operating systems
> into the thread next? :)
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on
> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 June 2017 8:23:29 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>
> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>
> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','step...@lythixdesigns.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>> from the outside.
>>>
>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>&g

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

OOOTT:
Controlling calories has no effect on weight loss. The simple reason for this 
is that the body adapts its energy usage based on the calories in. Not the 
other way around.
Eat more calories and your body will waste more. Eat less and it will go into 
low power mode. If your body energy consumption did not change then yes, 
calories in would be a good way of controlling your weight. It doesn't.
Confirmed through science experiments with mice. Feed them more, and they run 
around lots. Feed them less and they will become lethargic and not move much.

Chris, I've been toying with that idea on occasionally carbing it up, as well 
as the occasional fasting. There's a guy named Dave Feldman 
(http://cholesterolcode.com/) who's essentially an IT guy who went keto and 
found his cholesterol blood test shot through the roof. Being a data guy (like 
many of us are) he proceeded to start collecting data to see the bigger 
picture. 150+ blood tests later (in 18 month period!) he found that altering 
your calories in would modify what your liver produced in a three day sliding 
window. Fascinating to read.
I actually found the same thing. My doctor freaked out when my cholesterol shot 
up, so I did this experiment and ate 20,000 kilojoules per day for three days 
(it was a challenge!!) then had another blood test. My cholesterol dropped 13% 
from my blood test a week earlier. Not as much as I'd have liked but still 
proved the body is way more complicated and agile than people think. It adapts.
Had a heart scan just to be sure and calcium score was zero, all normal.

Shall we try to bring religion, politics and favourite operating systems into 
the thread next? :)

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 8:23:29 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans on 
this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy diets (due 
to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing inherent in veganism 
that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the vegan society pages 
confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. 
Plenty of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans on toast is 
packed with the stuff.

It's *not* about the calories. 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

OOTT= off off-topic topic

On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight, very 
hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost 6kg 
in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net people may 
know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com<http://2ketodudes.com>, 
and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb 
and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town keto 
for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be seeing the 
sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of too 
much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen from the 
outside.

One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget to 
eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit late. 
Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked right 
through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a drive from 
places to eat. Barely noticed.
Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently made 
deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan cheese.
So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this elist. :)

Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of those 
motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing weight. 
What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You can lose 
weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other reasons. I.e. 
Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Cheers,
Stephen

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand de

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Andrew Tobin]

Actually, if you read /r/keto they'll tell you to "keep calm and keto on" -
I lost 20kg on keto, and plateaued many times doing that.  Just keep doing
what you're doing, your body will adjust and adapt and it'll go down
again.  It's common.

Drink a lot of water.

I hopped off Keto for a bit for Christmas 18 months ago, and never hopped
back on, and put it all back on and more. *shrug*  I didn't learn anything
I guess.

Anyway, great diet, but you really have to change your lifestyle - and I'll
have to get back on it.

Standing desk? Co-worker wasn't using theirs, so I borrowed it, used it a
bit for the first few weeks, went on holidays, came back and haven't used
it in two months now.

Apparently gimmicks can't overcome laziness :)

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Chris F <psylen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stephen -
>
> Off topic too - but if you've found you've stalled on the keto diet have
> you tried carbing up?
>
> Especially if you're lifting weights. One meal on a Saturday night once a
> week or fortnight is great.
>
> Doesn't have to be clean either, I found I'd eat an entire large pizza and
> within a day my weight would drop a significant amount once everything
> flushed through.
>
> Depending on how long you've been on it, you'll kick back into ketosis
> either Sunday afternoon or Monday and it'll give you a bit more energy for
> lifting weights for the week to come. Also gives you a bit of an
> psychological break too.
>
>
> On 20 June 2017 at 02:22, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
>> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>> from the outside.
>>
>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
>> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
>> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
>> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
>> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>> cheese.
>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>> elist. :)
>>
>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>> lose it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stephen
>> --
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on
>> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>
>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
>> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
>> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
>> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>
>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>
>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating
>>> insulin properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was
>>> feeling unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 20

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Connors]

I'm a vegan. I just choose to run my vegetables through a cow first.

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 10:53 Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
> either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.
>
> Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.
>
> As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
> whole different thing.
>
> Anyway too off topic now
>
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
>> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
>> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
>> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
>> vegan society pages confirms:
>> https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty
>> of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans on toast is
>> packed with the stuff.
>>
>> It's *not* about the calories.
>> https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>>
>> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>>
>> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his
>>>> town keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will
>>>> be seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>>> from the outside.
>>>>
>>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>>> cheese.
>>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>>> elist. :)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>>>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>>>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>>>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>>>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>>>> lose it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Stephen
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>
>>>> on behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>>>> *To:* ozDotNet
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>>>
>>>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks.
>>>> I sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health
>>>> issues, but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality
>>>> converters (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>>>
>>>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>>>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>>>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>>>> on (a

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.

Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.

As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
whole different thing.

Anyway too off topic now

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>
> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>
> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','step...@lythixdesigns.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>> from the outside.
>>>
>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>> cheese.
>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>> elist. :)
>>>
>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>>> lose it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Stephen
>>> --
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>
>>> on behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>>> *To:* ozDotNet
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>>
>>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks.
>>> I sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health
>>> issues, but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality
>>> converters (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>>
>>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>>
>>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating
>>>> insulin properly after 4

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Chris F]

Stephen -

Off topic too - but if you've found you've stalled on the keto diet have
you tried carbing up?

Especially if you're lifting weights. One meal on a Saturday night once a
week or fortnight is great.

Doesn't have to be clean either, I found I'd eat an entire large pizza and
within a day my weight would drop a significant amount once everything
flushed through.

Depending on how long you've been on it, you'll kick back into ketosis
either Sunday afternoon or Monday and it'll give you a bit more energy for
lifting weights for the week to come. Also gives you a bit of an
psychological break too.

On 20 June 2017 at 02:22, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
> from the outside.
>
> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
> cheese.
> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
> elist. :)
>
> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
> lose it.
>
> Cheers,
> Stephen
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on
> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>
> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>
> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
>> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
>> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey folks
>>>>>
>>>>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was
>>>>> interested in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried
>>>>> standing get any good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went
>>>>> back to only sitting?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans on
this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy diets
(due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing inherent in
veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the vegan society
pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-
drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans
on toast is packed with the stuff.

It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/
apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

OOTT= off off-topic topic

On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
>> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>> from the outside.
>>
>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
>> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
>> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
>> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
>> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>> cheese.
>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>> elist. :)
>>
>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>> lose it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stephen
>> ----------------------
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on
>> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>
>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
>> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
>> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
>> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>
>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>
>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating
>>> insulin properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was
>>> feeling unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>>>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey folks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was
>>>>>> interested in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried
>>>>>> standing get any good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went
>>>>>> back to only sitting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Connors]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 09:15 Bec C  wrote:

> Fine. Bloody sociopaths ruined the vegan diet for everyone


You seem very alkaline today Bec.

David.

-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Fine. Bloody sociopaths ruined the vegan diet for everyone

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price  wrote:

> Rofl
> I think he finished something, not started it
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 7:03 am, Bec C  > wrote:
>
> Lol don't start something
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors  > wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C  wrote:
>
> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com 
>  | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

Rofl
I think he finished something, not started it

On 20 Jun. 2017 7:03 am, Bec C  wrote:
Lol don't start something

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors 
> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C  wrote:
Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight, very 
hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8


--
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Connors]

Stop eating my food's food.

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 09:03 Bec C  wrote:

> Lol don't start something
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C  wrote:
>>
>>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Connors
>> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>>
> --
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Lol don't start something

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors  wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C  > wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[David Connors]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C  wrote:

> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8


-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
> from the outside.
>
> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
> cheese.
> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
> elist. :)
>
> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
> lose it.
>
> Cheers,
> Stephen
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on
> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>
> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>
> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tonyw...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
>> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
>> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','therut...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tonyw...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey folks
>>>>>
>>>>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was
>>>>> interested in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried
>>>>> standing get any good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went
>>>>> back to only sitting?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Stephen Price]

Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost 6kg 
in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net people may 
know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com<http://2ketodudes.com>, 
and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb 
and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town keto 
for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be seeing the 
sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of too 
much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen from the 
outside.

One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget to 
eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit late. 
Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked right 
through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a drive from 
places to eat. Barely noticed.
Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently made 
deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan cheese.
So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this elist. :)

Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of those 
motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing weight. 
What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You can lose 
weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other reasons. I.e. 
Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Cheers,
Stephen

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I sent 
a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues, but I 
think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters (Varidesk 
etc) that's really changed things.

I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just 
concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having all 
meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up on (and 
cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.

On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" 
<tonyw...@gmail.com<mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,

No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin 
properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling 
unwell/lethargic from sitting.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter 
<therut...@gmail.com<mailto:therut...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for example)? 
If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?


On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright 
<tonyw...@gmail.com<mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,

It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've been 
sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not 
regretful for one second that I have the option.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey folks

I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested in how 
people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any good (or 
bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?

Cheers

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Piers Williams]

There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
(Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.

I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.

On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright"  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>
>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>>>
 Hey folks

 I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
 in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
 good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only 
 sitting?

 Cheers

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[mike smith]

Do they?  As a diabetic, I oughta look at this.  OTOH being on my feet is a
bit contraindicated

On 19 Jun. 2017 16:33, "Tony Wright"  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>
>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>>>
 Hey folks

 I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
 in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
 good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only 
 sitting?

 Cheers

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Preet Sangha]

Hey Tom.

No I decided to try it when I joined a new company. I've been itching to
try it (and didn't bother when working from home - laziness). I didn't do
it for health reasons other that the nebulous "it's better for you to not
sit all day". I'm overweight and I was hoping it would make me lose weight
more quickly too (Spoiler - not in the slightest :=)

However I will say this, being overweight I don't get any backache now that
I can recall. I feel my posture has improved and this has had some benefit
on my overall all back strength. I don't recall getting back ache when I
sat but perhaps that was posture too.

What I can say is that perhaps it's worth a try. For me it was a month
before I truly felt OK - not comfortable, OK. Now it's very comfortable to
sit or stand (though my desk doesn't change - so I move to a sitting desk
very very occasionally for a few mins to do sitting down stuff like reading
paper or meetings.


regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ


On 19 June 2017 at 18:33, Tony Wright  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>
>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>>>
 Hey folks

 I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
 in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
 good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only 
 sitting?

 Cheers

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tom,

No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
unwell/lethargic from sitting.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:

> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>
>
> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright  wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
>> I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
>> I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey folks
>>>
>>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
>>> in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
>>> good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Tom Rutter]

Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?

On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've
> been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not
> regretful for one second that I have the option.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  > wrote:
>
>> Hey folks
>>
>> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested
>> in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any
>> good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tom,

It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've
been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not
regretful for one second that I have the option.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:

> Hey folks
>
> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested in
> how people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any good
> (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?
>
> Cheers
>