[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Programming
Attempting to program a VXR-7000 using CE-27 (using factory cables software). No problems in the past. This time around, gives a read error invalid data receive. Also, flashes CL and ON repeatedly, along with CLN on the ANI display...can't remember if this occured last time or not. Any advice? Thanks.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Programming
Make sure you're on the right com port. Attempting to program a VXR-7000 using CE-27 (using factory cables software). No problems in the past. This time around, gives a read error invalid data receive. Also, flashes CL and ON repeatedly, along with CLN on the ANI display...can't remember if this occured last time or not. Any advice? Thanks.
[Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 Receiver Fine Tuning.
I don't have much experience with repeaters and tuning of the same but I would like to know how to tune mine to a fine reception, I do know a bit (not an expert) in how to work around the program CE27 but I don't have a clue in how to get a fine tune to the receiver, If anybody could help me with this, I will really appreciate it. Thanks Eli.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
Hi Rick -- I am new to the group so I have not seen all of the posts with regards to your problem on the 7000. However, one thing that you may want to check is whether the PL is feeding back into the RX from the TX, if the tones are the same. I have seen this several times in the past on different machines and it is always annoying. Don't assume that just because you can run PL in and out that it will be able to run the same tone. GL -- Rick NU7Z On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Doug Bade k...@thebades.net wrote: Rick; I think you need to isolate whether it is tx through the duplexer or something else bothering the rx and or squelch. It sounds like the tx signal fundamentally is clean from your analysis so far.. in order to isolate through the duplexer, connect the tx directly to a dummy load instead of it's side of the duplexer while injecting rx into the duplexer. if it does not cycle, the tx is sending something through the duplexer to the rxif it does cycle.. it is an internal issue as you suspect.. I would use the tx to duplexer cable in the dummy load path as you want to see if some radiation from it is part of the equation. I lean more to spurious on initial keyup... causing a noise burst maybe due to exciter tuning... but this test should tell you if it is conducted internally or passed through the duplexer. Doug KD8B At 05:04 PM 12/17/2008, you wrote: Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
At 12/18/2008 10:02, you wrote: Hi Rick -- I am new to the group so I have not seen all of the posts with regards to your problem on the 7000. However, one thing that you may want to check is whether the PL is feeding back into the RX from the TX, if the tones are the same. I have seen this several times in the past on different machines and it is always annoying. Don't assume that just because you can run PL in and out that it will be able to run the same tone. Why not? If something is mixing the output back to the input, normally you'd want to find eliminate it since it's necessarily causing desense. Running different or split tones, can serve to cover up the problem if it's external to your equipment and out of your control. However, most ham transceivers are not capable of split tone operation. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
Rick; I think you need to isolate whether it is tx through the duplexer or something else bothering the rx and or squelch. It sounds like the tx signal fundamentally is clean from your analysis so far.. in order to isolate through the duplexer, connect the tx directly to a dummy load instead of it's side of the duplexer while injecting rx into the duplexer. if it does not cycle, the tx is sending something through the duplexer to the rxif it does cycle.. it is an internal issue as you suspect.. I would use the tx to duplexer cable in the dummy load path as you want to see if some radiation from it is part of the equation. I lean more to spurious on initial keyup... causing a noise burst maybe due to exciter tuning... but this test should tell you if it is conducted internally or passed through the duplexer. Doug KD8B At 05:04 PM 12/17/2008, you wrote: Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
Rick, You might check to see if the internal jumpers inside the VXR-7000 cabinet are single-shielded. I had a VXR-5000 UHF repeater that had single-shield jumpers with gray jackets and no markings, and had a small amount of desense. Once I replaced all three jumpers with RG-400/U double-shielded cable, there was no trace of desense. Perhaps Vertex tried the same money-saving trick on the later model. Check to make sure that all shields and cover plates are installed, with no screws missing. I wonder if your duplexer has been mis-identified. A DB4026 is a UHF bandpass cavity filter, not a duplexer. You probably meant DB4062, which is a six-cavity VHF BpBr duplexer. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pontotochs Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
I don't know what type of service monitor you are using, but I tend to use an iso-tee to measure desense with the duplexer hooked to a dummy load through the iso-tee. It might be possible for the service monitor to contribute to some signal reflection if it is used as the power termination. Make sure the cables to the duplexer are double shielded, like RG-214, and inspect the connectors to make sure all the grounds are in good shape. Check the internal cables in the VXR-7000 for the same potential problems. I may be preaching to the choir and if so I apologize. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Wed, 12/17/08, pontotochs pontoto...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: pontotochs pontoto...@bellsouth.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 4:04 PM Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Progamming Software
I called the Vertex Standard HQ in California and was informed they cannot sell me the CE-27 programming software for for my VXR-7000 repeater unless I am an authorized dealer (what a crock). Can anyone help me locate a copy? Dave
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Progamming Software
See your personal mailbox, I sent it. Juan From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sent: Jueves, 24 de Julio de 2008 01:21 p.m. To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Progamming Software I called the Vertex Standard HQ in California and was informed they cannot sell me the CE-27 programming software for for my VXR-7000 repeater unless I am an authorized dealer (what a crock). Can anyone help me locate a copy? Dave
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Alan Cheers - Yep all set correct and handsets work OK with repeater (around 10km) so freq, etc programmed OK just pwr out is low. No worries James Thurlow _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2008 22:56 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 James, Make sure the repeater is programmed to the proper TX/RX/ pl/DPL etc. frequencies before attempting alignment as noted in previous post. Good Luck, Alan Rabin WA2AR Enlight Communications Inc. www.enlightcomm. http://www.enlightcomm.com com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] net To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: 7/13/2008 5:49:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 The software CE29 has a help feature press F1 to access it. The TX alignment must be done in base mode. In other words make sure the base/repeater light is off on the front panel when doing this and use a wattmeter and proper dummy load. good luck. Alan Rabin WA2AR Enlight Comm. Inc. - Original Message - From: james_thurlow2003 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: 7/13/2008 5:03:18 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Help - someone tell me I'm not going bonkers. OK to put this post in context I fumble around PMR radio for events I run, have all the licenses from OFCOM and in my time programmed radios (HF and VHF) for humanitarian aid programs around the world. I've purchased a VXR-7000 repeater (used, but in as new condition by appearence). Programmed it up and it works. However its only pumping out 10/12 watts and seeing as my license allows up to 25 I'm keen to maximise coverage. Following the instructions about installtion of a duplexer I get the to bit where you hold the accessory button for 2 secs and push the PTT (Po shows) but the up / down buttons don't do nothing in adjusting the power out. Has anyone any ideas. Look forard to your replies. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Help - someone tell me I'm not going bonkers. OK to put this post in context I fumble around PMR radio for events I run, have all the licenses from OFCOM and in my time programmed radios (HF and VHF) for humanitarian aid programs around the world. I've purchased a VXR-7000 repeater (used, but in as new condition by appearence). Programmed it up and it works. However its only pumping out 10/12 watts and seeing as my license allows up to 25 I'm keen to maximise coverage. Following the instructions about installtion of a duplexer I get the to bit where you hold the accessory button for 2 secs and push the PTT (Po shows) but the up / down buttons don't do nothing in adjusting the power out. Has anyone any ideas. Look forard to your replies.
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Help - someone tell me I'm not going bonkers. OK to put this post in context I fumble around PMR radio for events I run, have all the licenses from OFCOM and in my time programmed radios (HF and VHF) for humanitarian aid programs around the world. I've purchased a VXR-7000 repeater (used, but in as new condition by appearence). Programmed it up and it works. However its only pumping out 10/12 watts and seeing as my license allows up to 25 I'm keen to maximise coverage. Following the instructions about installtion of a duplexer I get the to bit where you hold the accessory button for 2 secs and push the PTT (Po shows) but the up / down buttons don't do nothing in adjusting the power out. Has anyone any ideas. Look forard to your replies.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
The software CE29 has a help feature press F1 to access it. The TX alignment must be done in base mode. In other words make sure the base/repeater light is off on the front panel when doing this and use a wattmeter and proper dummy load. good luck. Alan Rabin WA2AR Enlight Comm. Inc. - Original Message - From: james_thurlow2003 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 7/13/2008 5:03:18 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Help - someone tell me I'm not going bonkers. OK to put this post in context I fumble around PMR radio for events I run, have all the licenses from OFCOM and in my time programmed radios (HF and VHF) for humanitarian aid programs around the world. I've purchased a VXR-7000 repeater (used, but in as new condition by appearence). Programmed it up and it works. However its only pumping out 10/12 watts and seeing as my license allows up to 25 I'm keen to maximise coverage. Following the instructions about installtion of a duplexer I get the to bit where you hold the accessory button for 2 secs and push the PTT (Po shows) but the up / down buttons don't do nothing in adjusting the power out. Has anyone any ideas. Look forard to your replies. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
James, Make sure the repeater is programmed to the proper TX/RX/ pl/DPL etc. frequencies before attempting alignment as noted in previous post. Good Luck, Alan Rabin WA2AR Enlight Communications Inc. www.enlightcomm.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 7/13/2008 5:49:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 The software CE29 has a help feature press F1 to access it. The TX alignment must be done in base mode. In other words make sure the base/repeater light is off on the front panel when doing this and use a wattmeter and proper dummy load. good luck. Alan Rabin WA2AR Enlight Comm. Inc. - Original Message - From: james_thurlow2003 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 7/13/2008 5:03:18 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Help - someone tell me I'm not going bonkers. OK to put this post in context I fumble around PMR radio for events I run, have all the licenses from OFCOM and in my time programmed radios (HF and VHF) for humanitarian aid programs around the world. I've purchased a VXR-7000 repeater (used, but in as new condition by appearence). Programmed it up and it works. However its only pumping out 10/12 watts and seeing as my license allows up to 25 I'm keen to maximise coverage. Following the instructions about installtion of a duplexer I get the to bit where you hold the accessory button for 2 secs and push the PTT (Po shows) but the up / down buttons don't do nothing in adjusting the power out. Has anyone any ideas. Look forard to your replies. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Rear ACC Jack and Remote Function
I am trying to connect an RC-100 controller to the rear jack of my VXR- 7000. For some reason, when the remote switch is pressed and the LED is on, the repeater ignores the ACC jack and still acts the same as when the repeater is in local. Any ideas? I didn't program the repeater, but I have the software. Can you disable the remote mode in the software? HELP! Thanks in advance, Jerry K8CMI
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Troubles
Having some issues w/ a VXR-7000, email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you are familiar w/ this model and would be willing to help! **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15ncid=aolhom000301)
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Troubles
Hello All and KFD29 IMHO, if you pose your questions to the Groupyou may find a quicker and more knowledgeable response to your problems with the VXR-7000; rather than having individuals email you and ask you what is wrong! That is one of the reasons we share in a Group. You may even want to include your name if nothing else.. Happy Repeating! Charlie It is not the class of license the Amateur holds, but the class of the Amateur that holds the license. Charles Mumphrey Amateur Radio Station Kc5ozh Repeater System: Rowlett Main: 441.325 MHz + 162.2 Dallas: 441.950 MHz + 162.2 Rowlett II: 441.950 MHz + 110.9 Rowlett R.A.C.E.S. Unit 823 http://www.CharliesElectronics.com Original Message Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Troubles From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, March 27, 2008 7:44 pm To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Having some issues w/ a VXR-7000, email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you are familiar w/ this model and would be willing to help!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Brian wrote: Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. First off, just in case of a common mistake: If you replaced the cables going to the duplexer and didn't replace them with good quality double-shielded cable... stop and go do that right now. How much isolation is the Wacom providing, since you just had it tuned. Did the shop give you a report for what they really got out of it? Does the repeater desense into a dummy load, or only if the antenna is attached? Do you have a directional coupler and/or Iso-T that you can inject a weak signal into the repeater with in both scenarios so you can see if the antenna or feedline are part of the problem? Back to a previous thread - do you have an Isolator on it? Are there other high power transmitters near you that could be getting into your transmitter? What's the site like? Do you have any way to see if the transmitter is clean at your selected power output level both into the antenna system and into a dummy load? We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. I wouldn't have suspected the tuned cavity first - unless you dropped it and dented it or something. Cavity size and frequency are physical properties that don't really change much. Something else is more likely to have changed. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
As far as what has changedthe new piece of equipment(repeater) is by the specs more then twice as sensitive but on the bench it tested more like 3 times as sensitive as the old repeater. We are going up today to try some more testing and I will get back to this thread with the results. Brian wrote: Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. First off, just in case of a common mistake: If you replaced the cables going to the duplexer and didn't replace them with good quality double-shielded cable... stop and go do that right now. How much isolation is the Wacom providing, since you just had it tuned. Did the shop give you a report for what they really got out of it? Does the repeater desense into a dummy load, or only if the antenna is attached? Do you have a directional coupler and/or Iso-T that you can inject a weak signal into the repeater with in both scenarios so you can see if the antenna or feedline are part of the problem? Back to a previous thread - do you have an Isolator on it? Are there other high power transmitters near you that could be getting into your transmitter? What's the site like? Do you have any way to see if the transmitter is clean at your selected power output level both into the antenna system and into a dummy load? We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. I wouldn't have suspected the tuned cavity first - unless you dropped it and dented it or something. Cavity size and frequency are physical properties that don't really change much. Something else is more likely to have changed. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amateur Radio Callsign: KC0DWX WARN (Weather Amateur Radio Network) member Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Brian, As I stated eariler you have dense problem and think it is caused by 7000 tx not meeting specs. Could be duplexer, but if it worked with the 2410 it should be fine with 7000...only 8.5 db difference. There could be some desense due to higher power, but sounds like you have a lot more desense. Give me a GE or Motorola any day, hi. Even RCA or some, but few, others. For GE and Mot lots around for spare parts. 73, ron, n9ee/r Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Put a 50 ohm step attenuator in series with the receiver feedline---i.e. between the duplexer and the receiver antenna input. Add attenuation until all desense problems just go away. This is the additional attenuation you need from your duplexer due to the improved sensitivity of your new receiver and increased transmitter power if there is any. All things being good and assuming that you haven't added appreciable transmitter power, the repeater should work about as it did before with the attenuator in place. Improve the duplexer to enjoy the improved receiver performance that is a repeater that hears better than before. Scott, N6NXI - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 As far as what has changedthe new piece of equipment(repeater) is by the specs more then twice as sensitive but on the bench it tested more like 3 times as sensitive as the old repeater. We are going up today to try some more testing and I will get back to this thread with the results. Brian wrote: Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. First off, just in case of a common mistake: If you replaced the cables going to the duplexer and didn't replace them with good quality double-shielded cable... stop and go do that right now. How much isolation is the Wacom providing, since you just had it tuned. Did the shop give you a report for what they really got out of it? Does the repeater desense into a dummy load, or only if the antenna is attached? Do you have a directional coupler and/or Iso-T that you can inject a weak signal into the repeater with in both scenarios so you can see if the antenna or feedline are part of the problem? Back to a previous thread - do you have an Isolator on it? Are there other high power transmitters near you that could be getting into your transmitter? What's the site like? Do you have any way to see if the transmitter is clean at your selected power output level both into the antenna system and into a dummy load? We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. I wouldn't have suspected the tuned cavity first - unless you dropped it and dented it or something. Cavity size and frequency are physical properties that don't really change much. Something else is more likely to have changed. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amateur Radio Callsign: KC0DWX WARN (Weather Amateur Radio Network) member Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Scott Brian, Putting an attenuator in the rx line only attenuates the desired and desensing receive signal. Still the desired signal to desensing signal ratio will still be the same one should still see the desense with the attenuator, just require more desired signal to overcome it. Except for isolation cannot see whey the attenuator would help. If desense is caused by another RF path, such as bad cables, getting around the duplexer one would see the desense being worse due to rx signal reduced, but desense not reduced. If you replaced any of the cables including between duplexer and repeater, make damn sure the cable is NOT 9913. This will cause noise resulting in desense. The solution is to find out why you have desense and fix it. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron is the owner of Micro Computer Concepts, a manufacture of repeaters and repeater controllers since 1988. You may see our products at http://home.earthlink.net/~mccrpt or call at 727-376-6575. Contact me at 8849 Gum Tree Ave, New Port Richey, FL 34653 USA Owner of the 146.64 repeater, the highest repeater, 1175 ft HAAT, in the Tampa Bay area, Florida. The repeater also has ECHOLINK, node 79540. Pasco County Skywarn Coordinator Skywarn meets on 146.64 each Wednesday at 8 PM. Skywarn nets are activated on 146.64 when the National Weather Service broadcast a weather alert. see our web page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pascoskywarn/ All are welcome. [Original Message] From: Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/11/2005 10:03:32 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Put a 50 ohm step attenuator in series with the receiver feedline---i.e. between the duplexer and the receiver antenna input. Add attenuation until all desense problems just go away. This is the additional attenuation you need from your duplexer due to the improved sensitivity of your new receiver and increased transmitter power if there is any. All things being good and assuming that you haven't added appreciable transmitter power, the repeater should work about as it did before with the attenuator in place. Improve the duplexer to enjoy the improved receiver performance that is a repeater that hears better than before. Scott, N6NXI - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 As far as what has changedthe new piece of equipment(repeater) is by the specs more then twice as sensitive but on the bench it tested more like 3 times as sensitive as the old repeater. We are going up today to try some more testing and I will get back to this thread with the results. Brian wrote: Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. First off, just in case of a common mistake: If you replaced the cables going to the duplexer and didn't replace them with good quality double-shielded cable... stop and go do that right now. How much isolation is the Wacom providing, since you just had it tuned. Did the shop give you a report for what they really got out of it? Does the repeater desense into a dummy load, or only if the antenna is attached? Do you have a directional coupler and/or Iso-T that you can inject a weak signal into the repeater with in both scenarios so you can see if the antenna or feedline are part of the problem? Back to a previous thread - do you have an Isolator on it? Are there other high power transmitters near you that could be getting into your transmitter? What's the site like? Do you have any way to see if the transmitter is clean at your selected power output level both into the antenna system and into a dummy load? We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. I wouldn't have suspected the tuned cavity first - unless you dropped it and dented it or something. Cavity size and frequency are physical properties that don't really change much. Something else is more likely to have changed. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amateur Radio Callsign: KC0DWX WARN (Weather Amateur Radio Network) member Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
At 03:39 AM 7/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as what has changedthe new piece of equipment(repeater) is by the specs more then twice as sensitive but on the bench it tested more like 3 times as sensitive as the old repeater. We are going up today to try some more testing and I will get back to this thread with the results. Spec sensitivity is like a paper repeater. Anybody can write whatever they want. Bench sensitivity is with no noise or other signals - the receiver is operating in the best of all possible worlds. Real world sensitivity (normally called Effective Sensitivity) is what really counts. See Chris Boone's writeup at http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/effectivesens.html If you still have access to the old repeater it would be interesting to see an effective sensitivity number on it, then drop the new repeater into the EXACT same lashup - the same duplexer-to repeater jumpers, the same everything. More below. Nate Duehr WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. Please describe the entire system - is there a preamp? Is there an isolator/circulator, any cavities other than what is part of the duplexer, what type of antenna, etc. First off, just in case of a common mistake: If you replaced the cables going to the duplexer and didn't replace them with good quality double-shielded cable... stop and go do that right now. RG-142 or RG-400 are two possibilities. 142 has a steel core and can fracture if bent too much, 400 is preferred. See http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/double-shielded-coax.html Mike Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Ok, today we went out on the hill and did much testing. We ended up running the new repeater on 2 antennas as this seems to work and we are going to see how it goes for a bit. Several things were learned while testing things. 1. Our old machine was only putting out about 4 watts before the duplexers. We thought 10 to 12 watts. when we hooked up the new machine into the line with duplexers and all we noticed an odd thing. 2. The new machine took a couple of seconds to come to full power through the duplexers.key up needle on meter moved to about 15 watts kind of slowly and sporadiclly then boom suddenly jumped to full full power. We ended up through much swapping things around isolating this to one of the duplexer cans on the transmit side. Without that one can it keyed up instantly. Has anybody seen this and I assume it means that the can is bad or faulty This problem only showed up on the new repeater as the old one didn't put out enough power to seem to cause this problem. Anyway I really appreciate this list everyone here has been great. Brian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amateur Radio Callsign: KC0DWX WARN (Weather Amateur Radio Network) member Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. We are open to any ideas you all might have Thanks. Brian KC0DWX Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
--- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. We are open to any ideas you all might have Thanks. Brian KC0DWX Most likely it is the 4 cavity duplexer. Many times they do not seem to be good enough to work with some of the repeaters. The 4 cavity units are just barely good enough to work with some repeaters if everything is tuned up just right. YOu need to add some aditional selecitivity such as another cavity to each side. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
Brian, I've used the WACom 4 cavity duplexers with 100 watts and no problem...no desense. The 7000 has a spurious spec of 85 db or better, but I don't believe much the foreign companies say. With the Yeasu 5000 they say 50 watts, but for continuous duty must lower to 15 watts. This is in their spec and is one spec I believe. 7000 might have spurs or other noise not down 85 db and this can cause desense. A duplexer with 80 db isolation and repeater tx down another 85 db is what you need. If the spurious emission is a spur or just tx noise not on the tx freq, but somewhere else close to your rx and if only say 60 db down (typical for ham rigs) then you could have a problem. This same thing happens when some take a perfectly good tx and put ham PA on it. Looks good on that watt meter. This is why I prefer good old and new commercial Motorola or GE. They do what they say. Going from 10 watts with the 2410 to I think 70 watts with the 7000 (8.5 db) this is not much of a change for a duplexers. Sounds as if you have much more than 8.5 db desense. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron is the owner of Micro Computer Concepts, a manufacture of repeaters and repeater controllers since 1988. You may see our products at http://home.earthlink.net/~mccrpt or call at 727-376-6575. Contact me at 8849 Gum Tree Ave, New Port Richey, FL 34653 USA Owner of the 146.64 repeater, the highest repeater, 1175 ft HAAT, in the Tampa Bay area, Florida. The repeater also has ECHOLINK, node 79540. Pasco County Skywarn Coordinator Skywarn meets on 146.64 each Wednesday at 8 PM. Skywarn nets are activated on 146.64 when the National Weather Service broadcast a weather alert. see our web page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pascoskywarn/ All are welcome. [Original Message] From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/8/2005 5:17:56 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000 Our local club has been running a 10 Yausu 2410 2 meter repeater for many years. It is run through a Wacom wp-641 4 can duplexer. Great results from this unit and it hears excellentWe recently aquired a new vertex vxr-7000 do to some really nice friends locally. In hooking up the new machine we have terrible desense on lower signals that would still be full quieting into our old machine. We had a local shop retune the duplexer and still no luck. We have tried it both with and without the contorller hooked up and no luck. It hears and transmits great in base mode but falls apart in repeat. We are open to any ideas you all might have Thanks. Brian KC0DWX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VXR-7000
At 07:18 PM 7/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: The 7000 has a spurious spec of 85 db or better, but I don't believe much the foreign companies say. ---It's not spurs that are necessarily the problem. It's wideband garbaaage, otherwise known as plain ol' wideband noise. Solid state exciters/amps generally are much worse in this regard (some MUCH worse than others) and show on spectrum analyzers as grass. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html We offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
