11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I just got it. The less we hold people accountable for there own actions,
the more we can blame the administration for all their troubles. Makes
perfect sense to me.
Jeff
Dear Hakan,
I hold no brief for the second Gulf war and am totally disgusted with
George Bush and was so before it became cool to be disgusted with George
Bush. However, this assertion about the US led blockade has always
seemed to me grossly unfair. Large numbers of children (and adults
Oh dear... you sure have some homework to do Rick, on just about all
counts. I suggest you do so before you argue any further about it, on
just how that half-million-odd children died and why (Hakan didn't
say they starved), on the Iraq food program under Saddam Hussein
(very few people
Greetings Keith and Hakan,
I am not ignoring you or refusing to answer. My AC went down and my
computer does not like to work in 90F+. I have to use the cool of the day
to get the farm chores done. I will be back.
Bright Blessings,
Kim
At 07:15 PM 9/2/2005, you wrote:
Kim,
During the years
Look how well the US embargo of Cuba has worked. If it's such a good
idea to embargo Communist countries,
let's embargo China. We can't of course, they could destroy our
country's currency at the drop of a hat.
Personally, if we want to get rid of Castro, probably the best thing
we could
I, on the other hand, am purposefully ignoring both Keith and Hakan and
am kind of hurt that neither one has even noticed.
Hakan and Keith, please ignore this post.
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings Keith and Hakan,
I am not ignoring you or refusing to answer. My AC went down and my
computer
I, on the other hand, am purposefully ignoring both Keith and Hakan and
am kind of hurt that neither one has even noticed.
Hakan and Keith, please ignore this post.
What post?
Keith
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings Keith and Hakan,
I am not ignoring you or refusing to answer. My AC went
.
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 20:03
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I want to build my 2 million dollar dreamhouse on the beach and make the
taxpayers foot
: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:27
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
You know Greg,
Sometimes doing nothing is the best that anyone can do. I guess it's
been a long time since you've been at the bottom of the heap, having few
or no options and nothing much else
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:37:35 -0500
From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is
There Blame?
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You can either shrug it off
wrong?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:37
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
You can either shrug it off or have compassion for a fellow human being
In a message dated 9/1/2005 5:16:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm sure that there is a percentage of people who have exercised poor
judgment. Who hasn't exercised poor judgment?The irony here ishow
youexpress less sympathy as the suffering from those
.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From:
Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005
14:54
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New
Orleans. Is There Blame?
Whatever happened to "From Each According To His Abilities, To Ea
Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Greetings,
I am wondering, are Greg and I the only ones that feel frustration
with
people who don't care about their lives
France must be punished
Condie RICE
:-)
frantz
On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
OK .. well .. history
New Orleans, as was the rest of Louisiana (remember something called
the
Louisiana Purchase) owned by the French and was an important port of
trade.
Greetings,
I am sorry if I took your comment the wrong way. I am just trying to share
alternatives. You are correct, there is no one size fits all in the health
department, since our genealogy has lots to do with what will work for us
At 06:47 PM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
Kim , my apologies if my
Greetings,
No one but you has brought up any stereo types. If you honestly believe
that everyone who has been injured by this storm is an innocent bystander,
then enjoy your rose colored glasses. Most of us feel anger that children
died because their parents would not heed warnings. We never
"Preparations can be made if you make the effort."
This thread is beginning to take on a "they" flavor. They were unprepared, lazy, foolish, etc.
I do everything I can to resist the urge to judge people. However, I exercise every freedom to judge other people's opinions and philosophies with
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings,
No one but you has brought up any stereo types.
I prefer Blaupunkt over Pioneer, but my friend prefers Aiwa. Anything is
better than Sony.
Oh wait... nevermind.
;)
jh
___
Biofuel mailing list
"We never said that every child's death was it's parents fault, or anything like that. However, in the world I live in, there are people who expect others to do for them, what they should be doing for themselves."
Being apologetic doesn't change the fact that these kinds of
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 03:02:27 -0400
From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is
There Blame?
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed
In captions on news photos
Why not Sony?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:56
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I prefer Blaupunkt over Pioneer, but my friend prefers Aiwa
Greetings,
If it is discriminatory to call a thief a thief, then I discriminate. If
it is discrimination to call a liar a liar, then I do discriminate. Could
you please tell me how things can get better by letting people get away
with whatever they feel like? No one held accountable, is
Go back and read your own words Kim.
Their all-inclusiveness painted everyone with the same broad brush. No
different than Greg, you imply that everyone who remained is of the same
mindset/mentality, and then you both progress and attempt to convict all
who stayed as having the same criminal
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings,
If it is discriminatory to call a thief a thief, then I discriminate. If
it is discrimination to call a liar a liar, then I do discriminate. Could
you please tell me how things can get better by letting people get away
with whatever they feel like? No
You say that it's not that simple yet, you generalize by pointing to a mixed group of people and take a position against"them", saying that "they" don't help themselves andshoot at rescue workers.
Oversimplified - Hell Yes!
Who are "they" and how do you know the circumstances of each person and
OK, when you're done celebrating, you still have to figure out who "they" are. So far, you've done the equivalent of pointing at a crowd of people and calling "them" thieves because you spotted one walking out of a store with a TV.
Oh how easy it must be to live in your world!
MikeJoe Street
Greetings Joe,
Thank you. Yes, fence riding is a Canadian hobby, isn't it? It is easy to
understand why, when you read stuff like Todd is sending.
I have had friends look at me startled and say: You are judging me. and
I reply, If I don't judge you and find you worthy, how can I call your
Yeah, let's get Mel Gibson to spank 'em
Frantz DESPREZ wrote:
France must be punished
Condie RICE
:-)
frantz
On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
OK .. well .. history
New Orleans, as was the rest of Louisiana (remember something called
the
Louisiana
It's the same world you live in Mike but some people just have the
blinders off;
Ok in a disaster of that scale how high on a list of needs is a TV
set? What would YOU call the person walking out a storefront with one?
There is a difference between compassion and blindness. If you had a
long
blame Canada (terrance and phillip)
Frantz DESPREZ wrote:
France must be punished
Condie RICE
:-)
frantz
On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
OK .. well .. history
New Orleans, as was the rest of Louisiana (remember something called
the
I have a lot of friends in Canada who don't think like your posts suggest and I'm grateful. I often see Canadian culture as nurturing the voice of reason (what you call fence riding).
The UShas a long history of judging people. Pearl Harbor (for example) gets bombed by Japan and
Michael Redler wrote:
I have a lot of friends in Canada who don't think like your posts
suggest and I'm grateful. I often see Canadian culture as nurturing the
voice of reason (what you call fence riding).
Many Canadians DO think of themselves as a voice of reason. Kim has
pointed
Hi Kim;
I always enjoy reading your posts. I wish you didn't live so far
away. I think you are in West Texas or New Mexico? Sounds like your
place would be a marvel to visit and if I ever get down that way again
I would defininitely like to meet you and Garth. I know exactly what
you mean
OK Joe, here we go.
"I asume you are writing from your laptop enroute to the damage zone to 'walk the walk' and not just talk the talk."
You've given me an exellent example to prove my point.
This reaction from you implies that either:
a.) Ifalsely statedthat I'm involved in the rescue effort
I just got it. The less we hold people accountable for there own actions, the
more we can blame the administration for all their troubles. Makes perfect
sense to me.
Jeff
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
, to start
cleaning up the mess or handing out supplies,thus helping the people to
help themselves?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From:
Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005
7:04
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New
Ok well for what it's worh your statment at a) is wrong;
I didn't judge that you stated you were involved or not involved. What
I said was if you have such unconditional compassion you SHOULD be
going to do something otherwise what does that make you?
And your statement at b) is wrong;
The
You not only didn't read what I wrote Kim, you completely sidestep,
ignore and jump over your own all-encompassing statements and the
singular stewpot that you place everyone in who doesn't measure up to
your judgemental standards.
And yet you continue to pass judgement on others in the midst
.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:27
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
You know Greg,
Sometimes doing nothing is the best that anyone can do. I
"What I said was if you have such unconditional compassion you SHOULD be going to do something otherwise what does that make you?"
...passing judgment to the very end, and still as baseless and convoluted as ever. My argument has been focused on passing judgment and "accountability". Where
someone could claim I'm making it up, and how
would I prove a negative wrong?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:37
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame
Greetings Joe,
Actually we are in SE Texas. That is why we caught the very edge of
Katrina. I have been talking to people from New Orleans that left
as the evacuation was happening. This is how I could state, that as
far as I have been able to find out, there were no hitchhikers on
the exits
Kim,
During the years between the first and the second Gulf war, a very
large number of children died each year, something that Galloway
picked up in his part of the US oil for food hearings. ..- who died
only because the fact that they were born in Iraq at the wrong time.
Many 1,000's more than
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings Joe,
Actually we are in SE Texas. That is why we caught the very edge of
Katrina. I have been talking to people from New Orleans that left as
the evacuation was happening. This is how I could state, that as far
as I have been able to find out, there
Message -
From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Would you feel the same way if people died in quakes in Japan or
California? What about Sri Lanka
Climate scientists have predicted that our oceans will rise because of
Global Warming. Many people living near sea level will have to re- locate,
some day, onto higher land. Already the Pacific island of Tuvula is being
evacuated because of the sea level rise. About 11,000 people live on this
Message -
From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:12
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
SNIP
I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking only of the feds. When I said
governments did
.
- Original Message -
From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:17
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Howdy Greg, you seem a little hard on those who didn't evacuate. I can
think a couple reasons
Hi Greg
you writeI am on a budget, yet I still managed to put together three
55 gal plastic
drums of water, and a few hundred pounds of wheat, beans, powdered milk,
butter powder, white and brown sugar, honey, dry fruit, vitamins.I
have used salvaged building materials ( most of which didn't
PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg and
April
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:57 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
They are culpable, if they continue their parents mistakes.Indeed
they
should have a better
] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:37 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Hi Greg
you writeI am on a budget, yet I still managed to put together three
55 gal plastic
drums of water, and a few hundred pounds
Thanks for the info Emil.
I remember now reading of the silver coin in water from another thread.
Somehow I think it sounds kind of weird though.
We use untreated well water and I could stand a bit of chlorine in an emergency.
Usually we have some water supply interruption during Winter.
It is
Were you inquiring 'bad' as in micro-organisms or 'bad' as to taste?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:51
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Thanks
together, during an
emergency, so do it before it occurs.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Would you feel the same
of death by dehydration.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:36
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
SNIP
How do you keep stored water fresh?
Brian
]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Would you feel the same way if people died in quakes in Japan or
California? What about Sri Lanka? How about a plane crash, dam breech,
eruption or tornado? Some
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg and
April
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:47 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Yes.
If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous natural
TED] On Behalf Of Greg andAprilSent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:47 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans.
Is There Blame?Yes.If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous naturaloccurrences ( quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, bl
Greetings,
Actually, I prefer hydrogen peroxide to chlorine for keep my water
fresh. It does not have the toxic effects, especially for young girls and
child bearing aged women. Sorry, but chlorine is not safe.
Bright Blessings,
Kim
At 12:51 PM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
Thanks for the info Emil.
I
at what concentration is hydrogen peroxide safe? At what concentration is
chlorine bleach unsafe?
also at what concentration is H2O2 effective and at what concentration is
chlorine ineffective
against what organisms? viruses? bacteria? cryptosporidium? giradia? amoeba?
nematodes? etc.
darn,
Greetings,
I was suggesting an alternative for those whose health is of vital
importance, to them. I am fighting hard to prevent myself from becoming
totally chemically sensitive, so I can still have a life. Many of the
things our government says are safe are responsible for people becoming
Ok great thank you bright blessings Kim.
With all of this information coming in, sometimes it seems like
somebody can find something wrong with every remedy. I was hoping for
something a bit more... fun and less fearful than chlorine. I thought
the silver coin idea was a wives tale that some
on the safety of hydrogen peroxide, from the msds:
note at the bottom, ...may cause... death.
http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSHydPeroxide.html
Potential Health Effects
Eye:
Causes eye burns. Produces irritation, characterized by a burning sensation,
redness, tearing,
inflammation,
Greetings,
I am wondering, are Greg and I the only ones that feel frustration with
people who don't care about their lives, then expect someone else to pick
up the pieces?
Greg has not condemned anyone who tried to help themselves, just those who
don't. I can remember my parents being irate
i think a few cases of bottled water and or jugs of distiled water from
the supermarket will last a few years
lol ...
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings,
I was suggesting an alternative for those whose health is of vital
importance, to them. I am fighting hard to prevent myself
Kim , my apologies if my position was taken as ridicule, there was no such
intent. All I am trying
to do is point out all the variables in any health decision, particularly when
someone makes a
blanket statement such as A is good, B is bad.
arth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings,
I was
Kim,
"I don't see that a rant against people who have endangered themselves and others is out of line."
I have no problem voicing my opposition towhat I feel is a baddecision. If I knew that an individual wasaware ofthe advanced warning and ignored it, I'd have no problem telling him/her
Sounds more like the parable of the ant and the grasshopper.
Michael Redler wrote:
Kim,
I don't see that a rant against people who have endangered themselves
and others is out of line.
I have no problem voicing my opposition to what I feel is a
bad decision. If I knew that an
30% H2O2 is ridiculously expensive as well. $230.00 per gallon in
Canada.
It is hell on wheels though for cleaning silicon pretty near to the
atomic level when mixed 50/50 with concentrated sulfuric.
Don't try this at home kids.
Joe
bob allen wrote:
on the safety of hydrogen peroxide,
] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Would you feel the same way if people died in quakes in Japan or
California? What about Sri Lanka? How about a plane crash, dam breech,
eruption or tornado? Some empathy here would be nice. No one is perfect.
No one can predict the future.
Regards
Greg has not condemned anyone who tried to
help themselves, just those who don't.
And precisely who's position is it to condemn anyone? And what right is
it of their's to say that those whom they condemn or denigrate didn't do
all they could within their means?
An estimated 112,000 homes
: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Greetings,
I am wondering, are Greg and I the only ones that feel frustration with
people who don't care about their lives, then expect someone else to pick
up the pieces?
Greg has not condemned anyone who tried to help themselves, just those
We do the same things with barriar islands up here then get all upset
when they blow away.
TarynToo wrote:
I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and
gave my neighborhood a little slap, on her way out to the warm gulf
waters, where she organized into a cat 5
Very true. My home is on the edge of a pine forest and has been here
since before it was fashionable to build in the forest. I don't cary
nearly the concern for humanity that many others do. It is my opinion
that the old Toyota slogan says it all, You asked for it, you got
it!
Many people have
People, were there first and form there own local governments before the
feds showed up.
besides aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves or do you want
the feds or corporate bigwigs telling you where you should live.
I live in South Florida also where is this High(ish) ground you
I sorry as all get out for the folks in New Orleans.
But
New Orleans is a city that should have never been built.
I'll disagree with one point, that the government was responsible for all
the problems.
I believe it's the folks of New Orleans, that started the canals and
drainage ditches ( and
TarynToo wrote:
Snip
But you can't expect to live on a flood plain, or a sand bar, or a
muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, and be safe. Should governments
issue building permits in swamps? Should insurance companies write fire
policies on wooden houses in pine forests? Flood policies on
Hi, Juan and Greg
On Aug 31, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Juan Gutierrez wrote:
People, were there first and form there own local governments before
the feds showed up.
besides aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves or do you
want the feds or corporate bigwigs telling you where you
, 2005 1:12 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Hi, Juan and Greg
On Aug 31, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Juan Gutierrez wrote:
People, were there first and form there own local governments before
the feds showed up.
besides aren't people
31, 2005 11:24 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
TarynToo wrote:
Snip
But you can't expect to live on a flood plain, or a sand bar, or a
muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, and be safe. Should governments
issue building
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:41
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I think they live below sea-level in the Netherlands too? People have to
live somewhere. We do the best we can with the tools we have. OK, back
to finding energy
-Original Message
. Homeopathy .
Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel
The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans
Orleans does ,
after all, the estimated population, in 2003, is less than 1000.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:12
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
SNIP
I'm
Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:36:29 -0600
I sorry as all
: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:12
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
SNIP
I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking only of the feds. When I said
governments did this or that, I was speaking of all
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