Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: Import of OpenGeoDB to OSM
On 12 Jan 2008, at 19:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: responds to a question by Joerg Ostertag (who would have thought of that!) ?? have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wales Mapping Weekend, 12-15th September
sorry, 12th to 15th that is On 15 Jan 2008, at 17:25, SteveC wrote: Following discussion on talk-gb and the IoW party in 2006, help get Wales mapped and meet other mad mappers http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Welsh_Mapping_Party_Weekend *Grade II listed cottage, beds for 14 people *12th-14th September 2008 *£55 quid for entire weekend *Reserve your space NOW All invited, including those overseas where I'm sure those going past various airports can pick you up. If we get over-subscribed I'll book another cottage. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] TIGER has only a week to go
On 15 Jan 2008, at 20:25, J.D. Schmidt wrote: Andy Allan skrev: On Jan 15, 2008 6:01 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~daveh/tiger/stats.html TIGER imports will be finished in a weeks time! Should we celebrate somehow? Perhaps a press release? (Maybe give it another week so that Mapnik has all the new data) You obviously don't watch enough action movies. It'll get to 1 second remaining, and SteveC will cut the blue wire... Cheers, Andy As usual when watching action movies, I fell asleep midway. Could you please tell me, now that I am awake, is SteveC the Good Guy or the Bad Guy in this movie ?? Good. Fake SteveC is Bad. ;) Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Logo
All Simon sent me this nice logo http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Logo which I think of as a sort of freshening of the existing one. Is anyone interested in freshening up the OSM logo? The original designer (Matt, cc'd) isn't involved in OSM much but the SVG is in svn. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Logo
On 16 Jan 2008, at 08:21, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: SteveC wrote: Sent: 16 January 2008 12:16 AM To: Talk Openstreetmap Cc: Simon Pascal Klein; Matt Amos Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM Logo All Simon sent me this nice logo http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Logo which I think of as a sort of freshening of the existing one. Is anyone interested in freshening up the OSM logo? The original designer (Matt, cc'd) isn't involved in OSM much but the SVG is in svn. It's great to see new ideas but in this instance I don't think it's strong oh I didn't mean that, yes it needs evolution enough (especially when reduced in size which it has to be for some press stuff etc) to really stand out. The one thing I would like to see sometime is inclusion of an optional OpenStreetMap.org on the icon itself somehow. My personal view only however. Cheers Andy have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] www based IRC
On 18 Jan 2008, at 15:27, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 SteveC wrote: | TomH kindly set up | | http://irc.openstreetmap.org/ | | So that people can use #osm IRC from the web. This is useful for new | users to immediately get help and so on. Any chance this could require login and give users the same IRC name as OSM login name, rather than give people names like CGI543? /me waits for anonymity crowd to shout Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHkMVLz+aYVHdncI0RAhMWAKDrAsVIYlUnSsjU6kAIBWSTkWH/NACfX4ZA ooOoBLpOoFxaBFiN7PEUzsw= =FQTt -END PGP SIGNATURE- have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] www based IRC
TomH kindly set up http://irc.openstreetmap.org/ So that people can use #osm IRC from the web. This is useful for new users to immediately get help and so on. Please help by linking to it from the right places in the wiki. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map rectifier
On 22 Jan 2008, at 16:43, Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:26:06PM +, Steve Chilton wrote: Is the map rectifier working: http://labs.metacarta.com/rectifier/ Nope. To save even more typing, next time just use 1 for yes and 0 for no... have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch on talk-de
Wow they really like potlatch over in talk-de. English 'translation': http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftalk-de%2F2008-January%2F006758.htmllangpair=de%7Cenhl=enie=UTF-8 from thread beginning here (and it's a big thread): http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2008-January/006758.html Reminds me of the good old days of flame wars on this list. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SOTM08 - Ireland
All Having considered many great proposals, Ireland has been chosen for SOTM08 More here: http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=273 Book yer flights now. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Closed Ways all Opened in Luxembourg
I'm very much of the school... that someone should say what was 4 times slower and why? :-) On 3 Feb 2008, at 16:52, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Patrick Weber wrote: Hi Noticed something very strange just now. Looked at Luxembourg-City in Potlatch, and all closed ways (roundabouts, parking lots ... ) had been opened . By that I mean the last node had been deleted so that that there was a gap and the line wasnt closed anymore. Now this doesnt seem to have been a manual error, I found dozens of errors!! example : http://www.openstreetmap.org/? lat=49.60003lon=6.10759zoom=17layers=B0FT Go into Potlatch, and the roundabout, the parking lot, the graveyard are all not closed anymore (they obviously were before, as Mapnik render shows). Whats goind on ? Short version: An unintended side-effect of a change to the server code deployed about one minute before you sent your message. Spotted instantly and now fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience. Long version: Since the dawn of time, Potlatch has accessed the database directly using SQL statements, rather than the Rails object model that the rest of the site uses. This is principally because I understand a bit of SQL but not any Rails. (But also because, especially in the old API 0.4 days, Potlatch abstracted a lot of stuff away from the user - particularly segments - and that wasn't easily mappable to Rails objects. Well, not easily for a n00b like me.) I'm very much of the school that it doesn't matter if it's written in Fortran as long as it works. Not everyone else is, and that's fair enough, they have their own reasons and I'm not going to say who's right and who's wrong. Anyway, one of those who takes the opposite view s Steve, and again given that most of the Rails code is his he's got the right to say that. So as part of ZXV's Week of OSM, Steve rewrote some of the SQL in Rails. Now this is all great and means that Rails developers can understand the code. _But_ unfortunately it was a full four times slower than the old SQL. Hence why Potlatch has been running slowly for the last week. So today, Tom did a bit of work to improve this. Tom's improved Rails code was just over twice as fast as this, which is clearly a win (i.e. 1.9x slower than original Potlatch SQL). Unfortunately, AIUI due to peculiarities of Rails, this meant that any node would only be returned once for a way... which broke circular ways. Tom deployed this, 30 seconds later I spotted the problem, two minutes later Tom had deployed a fix... it's just bad luck that you were editing in the intervening 2 minutes. :) Anyway, more usefully, Potlatch now automatically resizes itself to your browser window. Still a couple of rough edges to iron out (particularly with the Yahoo imagery) but hope you like it! cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Progressing OSM to a new data Licence regime
Dear all The OSMF has been actively investigating the license situation, in that there are many problems with CCBYSAs application to data. We think we have found a solution in the form of the Open Database Licence [http://www.opencontentlawyer.com/open-data/open-database-licence/ ]. This license is similar in many respects to the theme and goals of our existing license but has the added benefit of being applicable to our situation. One way to think of it is CCBYSA for databases. It is early days in data licensing (as opposed to Free/Open software or creative work licensing). The OSMF feel that the ODL license is the way forward for our project and reject the Public Domain Dedication [http://www.opendatacommons.org/odc-public-domain-dedication-and-licence/ ] because it offers no 'viral' (share alike) protection to the data. Whilst the license is almost complete, the OSMF have communicated with the authors and have noted a few improvements we would like to make before releasing it (detailed in the FAQ). The FAQ is as of writing not complete on purpose - we foresee questions and so on arising as a result of this email and the FAQ to build on them. You are encouraged to read the relevant licenses and contribute to the legal-talk mailing list and FAQ. The plan, essentially, is to switch license from CCBYSA 2.0 to the Open Database Licence in 4 stages. • Stage 1 - Get suggestions for any changes required in addition to those identified by the OSMF • Stage 2 - Engage the licenses author to amend the license as required • Stage 3 - Email all OSM users who have contributed data with the option of re-licensing their data • Stage 4 - Remove all data from those who do not respond or respond negatively (the hard bit) These stages require patience, understanding, legal and technical knowledge and represent an important change in OpenStreetMap. This license is not the final decision, but a beginning. We won't find a perfect license (indeed, many disagree on todays license) or one we can all 100% agree on, but it's hoped that we can find the best approach we can and the best way forward for OpenStreetMap. PS Please remember to reply to legal-talk [http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk ] FAQ etc on wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Open_Data_License http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Open_Data_License_FAQ Steve Coast, Chairman of the OSMF With thanks to Richard Fairhurst and Andy Robinson for direct involvement and the whole OSMF board for support. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crazy ways after editing
David, There is also a talk-us list which may be of help in future. On 5 Feb 2008, at 18:46, David Muir Sharnoff wrote: The area of Oakland, California I've been editing (with Potlatch) suddenly changed in a very bad way. There are a whole bunch of ways (at least 50, perhaps a lot more) that have had one or more of their points move several miles south-east. A major street, Park Ave, seems to have disappeared entirely. Or, at least, I can't find it any more. Edit at this location to see: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.81886lon=-122.21229zoom=16layers=B0FT Some example ways that are messed up: 6403309, Saint James Dr. 6380125, Somerset Rd 6365079, Pershing Dr 6391271, Indian Rd 6381464, Hampton Rd 6374990, Excelsior Ave 6359191, E 33rd St 6390297, Everett Ave Does anyone have any idea what happened or how to fix it? Thanks, -Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Progressing OSM to a new dataLicence regime
On 6 Feb 2008, at 11:59, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 11:52:24AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Let us drop all this nonsense and concentrate on drawing up the moral guidelines - saying what we consider ok and what not - instead of fantasizing about having legal powers to enforce anything. I don't get it : you go on about how license such and such is possibly unenforceable and then you propose moral guidelines that are 100% guaranteed not enforceable. I fail to see progress. Well my position is the enlightened one: We can't enforce anything, Why do you think we can't enforce anything? Someone brought up 80n's example of how in [EMAIL PROTECTED], we actually use a big PNG image with one pixel for each Level-12 tile as a database, telling us which tiles are land tiles and which are sea tiles. So there's a database for you; at the same time, we say that images created from OSM data (mashups etc) are not databases in the sense of the license. This is one of, I'm sure, many points that will never be solved clearly and properly. That's what we have case law for though? have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Hack day 23rd Feb
Details now done: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_Hack_Day On 12 Feb 2008, at 20:51, SteveC wrote: Hi The cycle maps guys and Nick and I think we should have a hack day again. Bearing in mind it conflicts with Richards Worcester party, we've set it for the 23rd of this month in London. Details to follow. It's going to be awesome. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Screencasts
I've done two screencast intros to OSM, one general and one potlatch. http://showmedo.com/videos/series?name=mS2P1ZqS6 I'll add some more if there is a positive response. I'm guessing they'll be useful to newbies. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] License
Dear all It's been a fun discussion and I, Richard, Andy and OSMF appreciate all the input. If you have anything further to add then please raise it on this list before midnight on Friday 22nd. We will then update the FAQ and so on, and make a decision where to go from there. Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Attempt to clarify
On 20 Feb 2008, at 22:01, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I might therefore conclude (and stop me if my logic is faulty) that the only reason for someone to propose Option 1 over Option 2 on the basis of it won't work is because they actually have a principled objection to the share-alike part of Option 2, and are using it won't work as an excuse. Well. Option 1 would be a honest PD. Option 2a would be a well we wanted something else and we got this PD. Sounds like losing face to me. (long time readers of legal-talk just stop here, the following is well-known to you.) But personally, I *do* have a principled objection to share-alike. I think it is the choice of the petty-minded, of people who can't let go, who praise themselves as giving something away when in fact they're just laying out a bait; people who really want to control and enforce and sue and compel; people who would not hesitate one second to employ DRM and stuff if it could be used to further their goals. people who would kill kittens and scare old ladies in the street, people who play loud music late at night and rob banks... This is a bit extreme, supporting share-alike is not supporting terrorism. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Mapping Effort: Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Is there a need for a canadian mailing list? On 27 Feb 2008, at 19:21, Blake Crosby wrote: Hello, This is just a note to let any interested parties in a new mapping effort that is being organized by me. There is a lack of data for the York Region area of southern Ontario. I figured we could start in Aurora, since is where I live. I have details outlined at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Aurora Anyone who can help contribute should contact me. Thanks! Blake ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ideas for Potlatch
On 27 Feb 2008, at 10:58, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Lauri Hahne wrote: [autocomplete] Tab works in JOSM and Excel. I'll take your word for it on JOSM, I don't use it - though people got cross enough when JOSM borrowed modeless operation from Potlatch that I'm a bit wary of UI cross-fertilisation. ;) Excel's not the same. Excel doesn't autocomplete at all (at least on the OS X 2001 version) unless you press the cursor keys to select from What, you don't use Numbers? the menu first: if you just press Tab it doesn't autocomplete on the first entry. Effectively, in Excel, the cursor keys do the autocomplete (as they do in Potlatch). The difference is that Potlatch _also_ autocompletes on Enter. To echo Excel's behaviour in Potlatch, this would have to be removed, therefore requiring an extra keypress to autocomplete the default entry - a retrograde step IMO. [...] I don't know what server JOSM uses for its Landsat though it probably is in UTM. I believe the JOSM plugin talks to a WMS server. I don't have any plans to add WMS client capability to Potlatch - it's an old technology on its way out and there's things I'd rather spend my time on. Of course, that doesn't stop anyone else doing so. What about the other ideas? All sensible, didn't feel they needed debating. :) cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Mapping Effort: Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Anyone want to volunteer to maintain it? Tom would you mind doing the honours when someone volunteers? On 27 Feb 2008, at 23:01, Blake Crosby wrote: Steve, I think so. --Original Message-- From: SteveC To: Blake Crosby Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Feb 27, 2008 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] New Mapping Effort: Aurora, Ontario, Canada Is there a need for a canadian mailing list? On 27 Feb 2008, at 19:21, Blake Crosby wrote: Hello, This is just a note to let any interested parties in a new mapping effort that is being organized by me. There is a lack of data for the York Region area of southern Ontario. I figured we could start in Aurora, since is where I live. I have details outlined at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Aurora Anyone who can help contribute should contact me. Thanks! Blake ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Stares
Has anyone else noticed the number of stares going up? I had about 5 in my hour or so of mapping. I waved at 3 of them and got one wave back. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Stares
On 9 Mar 2008, at 20:33, 80n wrote: I think this might be the cause: http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/counter_terrorism/ ct_camera_2008.pdf Fight back with http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/05/remixing-the-london.html More details: http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/campaign_ct_2008.htm 80n On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 7:52 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SteveC wrote: Has anyone else noticed the number of stares going up? I had about 5 in my hour or so of mapping. I waved at 3 of them and got one wave back. No, but I'm definitely noticing an increase in the number of agressive dogs :-( Graham SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Stares
On 10 Mar 2008, at 13:34, Mikel Maron wrote: P.S. Schuyler, and Mikel nearly got arrested while mapping Ludhiana in India. No no not at all. We simply got asked a series of rapid, intense, probing questions from a representative of Ludhiana's police department. I'm sure she was just curious about OSM. did you judge her dancing ability? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SOTM 08 Call for papers now open!
[Message to multi-lingual list members - please translate and repost to local lists!] All Call for papers, blog, venue info etc all now live: http://www.stateofthemap.org/ Limerick, Ireland 12-13 July 2008 Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Grants
Dear All Cloud Made would like to sponsor mapping and coding in OSM. We'd like to pick up where others have left off and we want to offer grants to anyone with good ideas, and we want it to be as simple as possible: http://blog.cloudmade.com/2008/03/17/openstreetmap-grants/ * £100-1000 * Mapping _or_ coding * [EMAIL PROTECTED] We're not going to make you jump through a selection process, but our rough guidelines are that mapping parties should run as they're recommended to in the wiki, coding should be open source, and everything should of course stick to the license and ethic of OSM. We'll give feedback if we can and will also bounce non-obvious ideas off this mailing lists for input from the wider community (we don't want to spam the list with every mapping party request). -- Best Steve | We're hiring! - http://blog.cloudmade.com/2008/03/03/were-hiring/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Article
Dear Florian Fischer Thank you for the article on OpenStreetMap - it's great to see us mentioned in geoinformatics. Unfortunately there is one small error: The infrastructure of OpenStreetMap is based on Geoserver (based on GeoTools) and many pieces of free software that have been developed by OSM enthusiasts. ... We specifically do not use geoserver or WFS-T. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] License update
Richard, Andy and I just had a conference call to review where we are with the license. Progress is going well. We've engaged Jordan and sent off the changes we suggested to him, he is integrating them and will be releasing a new version. Once released he will consult with other interested parties on it and you will get the opportunity to do the same. This could take a little while, so we're thinking of changing the language of _new_ user signups to instead of releasing their work as CC, but as CC _or_ the ODL if the rest of the community vote on it. A link will be given showing that there is an ongoing license change discussion. Why are we thinking this? Because there are so many users signing up that every day it gets harder to go back and pull out data if a change is made. Comments on language to use etc warmly received. If there aren't any glaring problems then the change to the user signup page will be discussed at the OSMF board meeting on Thursday and put in to effect. Please follow up to legal-talk. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM server down
db went down for some reason, restarted On 21 Mar 2008, at 07:57, Mike Collinson wrote: Both http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and attempted JOSM download give 500 Internal Server Error ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Label placement. Sometimes the 'wrong' label gets precedent and one is hidden. Use spring-force placement on the labels to jiggle them until a fit is found. Anchor a virtual spring to the lat/lng of a node with place:city, name:Foo. The other end on to the label itself. Repeat with all the floating labels (ref: tags etc). Make all the nodes electorstatically repulsive, add friction and simulate a few iterations. Play about with values for the spring constant and repulsion coefficient until you find 'nice' values. For bonus points write a GA to find the nice values for you. For all I know mapnik already does something like this. For super bonus points, do all this in XSLT. On 21 Mar 2008, at 11:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I've been approached by a student of Geoinformatics who wants to write her Master's Thesis about something OSM related. I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering, can they be solved by simply improving the renderer(s) or will they need additional input from mappers in the form of hints or extra data, or are they maybe completely unsolvable for computers. I recognize this is more a general cartography topic than an OSM specific one, but our crowdsourcing powers might come in if it turns out that there are certain areas where map rendering could be improved dramatically if mappers did enter a few extra hints; nobody else could achieve that on a global scale but us. I'm sure each of you must have some pet peeve with our map rendering, some area you have mapped but which never looks right, some place where you're always tempted to edit the map tile with the GIMP before uploading it ;-) I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Teleatlas file format
yes its just shapefiles with a specific ontology afair. there are specs on the web On 21 Mar 2008, at 11:54, Alilo wrote: Hi, Does any one know what file format or database Teleatlas/navteq uses for the maps they are selling to their clients? Is there a sample file somwhere? I searched and didn't find any. Alilo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM poll
See the poll at the bottom right hand corner, and vote OSM: http://www.directionsmag.com/ :-) have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSMF announcement: Copyright Easter Eggs
http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=287 Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On 7 Apr 2008, at 12:24, Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/7 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: stumbled across a quote by David D Clark (of Internet architecture fame) today. He said: We reject: kings, presidents and voting. We believe in: rough consensus and running code. maybe someone should tell the government? apparently we're all wasting our time voting for them, and 'rough consensus' should be used to decide who's in power. Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? did he have any basis for it, or was it just a nice pseudo-anarchic sound bite? Not that I'm into gurus and such but it's nice to see that I am not the only sane person on earth who doubts that formal voting processes are not necessarily the best thing to have ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
On 9 Apr 2008, at 13:23, John McKerrell wrote: Just listened, great interview (apart from the strange tunnel discussion at the beginning ;-) Does make me think I should get another Liverpool party arranged and perhaps get on the radio to publicise it. yes! Thanks for the multimap mention too :-) On 9 Apr 2008, at 06:25, Nick Black wrote: Great interview! On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers Steve, It was fun. Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those that missed the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35 Cheers Andy Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
On 8 Apr 2008, at 17:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. You're right, there's a move link there which I had overlooked. Nonetheless, apart from the geo location of the city I get tons of other info that could not possibly come from Google... I understand a certain desire to say we are cooler than other mapping project but we should make an attempt to do so without slander. As you know there are ways and tools to create OSM data that is derived from Google Earth or Google Maps, Like what? No-one should be entering data into OSM that is derived from a proprietary source. I know that nobody should, and I won't give you a run-down of ways for people to do it nonetheless. I'm just saying that if someone was bent on demonstrating how easy Google data could find its way into OSM, then he wouldn't have to work very hard. *cough* http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=mapniklon=-0.343705lat=39.48158z=17 *cough* Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap State Of The Map 2008 conference early-bird registration
On 26 Apr 2008, at 17:03, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, There's just over a week to go for early bird registration for OpenStreetMap's second international conference in Limerick, Ireland on the weekend of 12-13 July 2008. It is a great opportunity to meet your fellow mappers from all over the world. I can't help noticing that the registration fee has doubled from £25 last year to £50 this year (and that's comparing last year's normal price to this year's early bird). What is the reason behind that? Is Limerick so much more expensive than Manchester? Have we doubled the amount of food available per person? Has this year's conference attracted significantly less sponsor money than last year's? Has last year's conference ended in a financial disaster for the organisers? Or wishful_thinkingare we now paying our speakers?/wishful_thinking My consulting fee has doubled. Can I put you down to help organise next year then? :-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The future of Potlatch
Richard I'm sorry you think informal private chats are now in the public domain, I'll keep it in mind. All This is not quite what happened. For a start, this doesn't really have anything to do with CloudMade, it started a long time before that. It's about the maintainability and quality of potlatch. Some time ago when Nick and I decided to spend a week of our company time (as a consultancy as it was then, it was a strain on our time) I discovered how bad Richards API was. As a bit of background, there is the main API and Richard doesn't want to write against it so he wrote an entire Flash API in the Rails server which doesn't reuse any code, doesn't use any of the object models, writes raw SQL and is basically flawed. I, and any sane coder, thinks Potlatch should be using the main API. I thought I'd do what I know quite a bit about - the rails backend. I found it quite difficult to improve any of it and after a week I think I'd improved one or two things but not made much headway. Richard felt pretty personal about it and left IRC a few times. After that I tried to get other people interested in solving it, either the backend or potlatch itself. I found it very difficult to get anyone interested in the rails bit which is why I used to do all that boring stuff in the first place. As for the frontend, there was a fair amount of interest in hacking it until those I spoke to found out it is in an ancient version of ActionScript, doesn't use the API and requires a pile of bizarre libraries to compile it. Faced with not being able to interest anyone in the problems, I tried to solve them with Richard. I, personally, and with company funds offered basically everything I can think of under the sun to get him to let go of the stranglehold on the codebase and help others contribute to it. I offered to buy a copy of the latest flash compiler suit, whatever it is called. I offered to buy the books. I personally offered to ship him the rails books to learn how to write good backend code. I offered to send him on a course (so I'm disappointed how he's phrased wanting to now get a grant, as if this was never talked about). I offered to let him manage paid coders to improve it. I even offered to fly him out to california and meet people (there seem to be lots of good flash and interaction designers out there). Basically, Richard said no to all of it. All of this is just to improve potlatch (which most people I've spoken to think should be a complete rewrite). I tried very hard. Forgetting about all of that for a second - think about what happens if Richard loses interest or gets run over by a bus. Basically we're screwed as nobody else knows how to code against it. That's not true of the rails port - and the rails port was done for exactly that reason and has been moderately successful. If I or Tom get run over by busses, all is not lost. Faced with him being so stubborn, I talked to more people about what to do and figured that meeting in person might be helpful. So I travelled up to north of birmingham in my own time, bought the food and tried all of the above points. Andy Robinson came along as well. I got nowhere, Richard still feels aggrieved and stubborn. On a more positive note, all I'm trying to do is get more people coding potlatch and hence make it better. I'm also trying to get it to use a clean API. Potlatch is great, it's improved way beyond the applets that tom and I wrote, but it needs to get better. I've tried pretty hard every way I can think and the roadblock is Richard. We've now reached the point where Richard has rebuffed all offers of help, doesn't see the issues and wants to appeal to the community for support by taking private conversations public without warning and misrepresenting what I've been trying to do. So I'm open to any advice on what to do next. On 1 May 2008, at 18:35, Richard Fairhurst wrote: [warning - long ponderous e-mail follows!] Hi all, A fairly weighty issue concerning the future of Potlatch has arisen, and I'm completely baffled as to what to do - so I thought I'd ask the community for thoughts and advice. CloudMade (Steve and Nick's VC-funded company set up to commercialise OSM data, www.cloudmade.com) wants to commission a new online Flash editor for OSM. It would, I believe, probably be written by developers from Stamen Design (www.stamen.com): some of you will remember that Stamen's Tom Carden wrote OSM's early Java editing applet, and they've also written a slippy map in Flash called Modest Maps. As you can imagine, this has taken me aback a bit. As I understand it, their main issue is a technical one. Potlatch is written in ActionScript 1, which is the same language as JavaScript, but for Flash. The latest version is ActionScript 3, which is much more like Java for Flash. The end user doesn't notice a difference, but the
Re: [OSM-talk] Hi-vis vest with OpenStreetMap Logo Surveyor Text
just give me a bank account and the amount to transfer and I'm in On 2 May 2008, at 17:59, Graham Smith wrote: Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: Graham Smith Sent: 02 May 2008 4:50 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Hi-vis vest with OpenStreetMap Logo Surveyor Text Hi folks, I'm in the process of getting a custom high-visibility safety vest printed for myself, for OSM surveying work, as I do most of my surveying on-foot and sometimes find myself near busy roads, etc. I had the same request out to the mailing list a couple of months ago and got quite a big response from various around the world. I just haven't had time to co-ordinate getting a batch printed up. Would be keen to share the workload if you are interested in doing something on this. The original thread is at: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-February/023770.html Cheers Andy Sorry Andy, I didn't realise you had already kicked something off in this respect! I'll see what the response is like for the design I've put forward. I might not have any choice but to share the workload depending on how things go! :) :) I take it you're based in the UK too? Cheers, Graham ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] failed to build mapnik with postgres support
guys the dev list is that way - as is the mapnik list? On 3 May 2008, at 23:30, Hanno Böck wrote: Hi, I'm trying to compile mapnik on gentoo with postgis support. scons always says: Checking for C library proj... yes Checking for C library iconv... no Checking for C library pq... no So it seems it doesn't find the pq library. -- Hanno BöckBlog: http://www.hboeck.de/ GPG: 3DBD3B20 Jabber/Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging and rendering
On 9 May 2008, at 03:30, elvin ibbotson wrote: On 9 May 2008, at 11:05, Dave Stubbs wrote: As far as I see it there is no difference between mapping 11=autobahn, and mapping motorway=autobahn. I think you missed the point. At present we have highway=motorway and I believe a German user would need to use these words. What I suggest but what you're suggesting is that we make it crap for everybody, not just germans more logical might be to have everything in mandarin or spanish or whatever the most spoken language is Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Missing Openaerial map from Potlatch
I discovered that people are just rectifying using google aerial and stuff, which breaks our paranoid/cautious stance on accepting copyright derived work. On 21 May 2008, at 21:55, Tomáš Tichý wrote: What happened to Openaerialmap layer in Potlatch? I see only - signs on the place where it was in menu. Tomas Tichy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] simplifying mapnik layout definition
On 27 May 2008, at 18:29, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andy Allan wrote: | Now, if someone is volunteering to make a concise definition format | that can be pre-processed into the mapnik XML format (or mapnik python | code, or even just read by a modified mapnik directly, or whatever) | then I'd absolutely love to SEE THE WORKING CODE. That osm.xml is an | unwieldy beast isn't in question, nor are the myriad of possibilities | to improve it - what is lacking is working alternative. IMHO in this case, the code is the easy part - it's designing a good Ah, we just have to solve the much smaller problem - the definition of 'good'. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] noname streets
I didn't find much on the wiki, has anyone looked at defining streets without names? I'd like to define some roads that really don't have a name so that they drop off the noname map. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/no-names/ I've been adding noname:yes but I can see that might not be optimal. Maybe name:__none__. Or something. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] noname streets
coz it makes me think of no=yes and that would just be silly On 9 Jun 2008, at 12:43, 80n wrote: noname=yes seems like a perfectly good solution. Why do you think it might not be optimal? On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:25 AM, SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't find much on the wiki, has anyone looked at defining streets without names? I'd like to define some roads that really don't have a name so that they drop off the noname map. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/no-names/ I've been adding noname:yes but I can see that might not be optimal. Maybe name:__none__. Or something. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] noname streets
On 9 Jun 2008, at 19:22, Alex Mauer wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: That statement is just... wrong. Really, really flabbergastingly wrong. Well, it's my opinion. You're going to have to revisit the route anyway to find out the road names, so why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Why do you think Richard 'has' to revisit it? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] noname streets
On 9 Jun 2008, at 19:40, Alex Mauer wrote: SteveC wrote: Why do you think Richard 'has' to revisit it? He personally doesn't, but if a road has a name, and that name is to be in the database, someone has to go there and find out what it is. Yes, but that's not what you said. And, some data is better than no data. -Alex Mauer hawke ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm talk at local LUG
On 10 Jun 2008, at 10:09, Steve Hill wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: From my experience you get lots of questions so best keep the presentation simple and allow enough time to answer stuff. You might also find you get questions regarding the free aspect of the project and the licence. Yes, be prepared for the usual why not just use Google? questions. I did a short lightning talk on OSM at my local LUG a few months ago and being able to cite uses of the data other than the plain slippymap was quite good (such as the Welsh language version (as I am in Wales :), the cyclemap, the pistemap, the ability to use the data for satnav projects, etc.). Isn't it easier with such a group to ask 'why not use windows?' The level of interest seemed quite high at the time, but sadly I don't think we've got any new mappers from that group. :( I shall try and dig out the slides I wrote, but basically I briefly talked out the benefits of the project over commercial maps and how the surveying is actually done. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] pronunciation tag
So it would be nice if we could tag how things sound as well as what they're called. GPS devices are starting to try (badly) at speaking out the names of things. Now there are some ways of marking this up already, but they look awful and require a degree in linguistics, viz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious (pronounced /ˌsuːpɚˌkælɪˌfrædʒəlˌɪstɪkˌɛkspiːˌælɪ ˈdoʊʃəs/) One of the badly pronounced streets in San Francisco is Divisadero. So, I propose that we do something like pronounce=deevisadeero or something similar readable by humans and flying computers that talk. Thoughts? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag
On 23 Jun 2008, at 18:52, Lauri Hahne wrote: I think some standard form should be used if we ever want to do something like this. Although IPA is the official standard, it isn't very computer or user friendly. Therefore I think something like SAMPA, MRPA or X-SAMPA should be used. These are used to some extend among linguistics and are all based on ASCII. These would also relieve the pain of trying to figure out what something would be in phonetic pseudo-english. can you summarise these with examples? 2008/6/24 SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So it would be nice if we could tag how things sound as well as what they're called. GPS devices are starting to try (badly) at speaking out the names of things. Now there are some ways of marking this up already, but they look awful and require a degree in linguistics, viz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious (pronounced /ˌsuːpɚˌkælɪˌfrædʒəlˌɪstɪkˌɛkspiːˌælɪ ˈdoʊʃəs/) One of the badly pronounced streets in San Francisco is Divisadero. So, I propose that we do something like pronounce=deevisadeero or something similar readable by humans and flying computers that talk. Thoughts? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Lauri Hahne Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?
On 23 Jun 2008, at 19:08, Gregory wrote: You need to get over the sea from here to there. An alternative to swimming is to go in a plane, and unless you have a private jet you may be required to show your passport to someone. I think Ryan Air's policy requires you to have a passport. I've never needed a passport flying to Ireland on Ryanair from the UK. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker
Hum: http://blogs.s60.com/browser/images/seriouslyIBM_l.jpg On 24 Jun 2008, at 09:54, X wrote: http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html Ready ... Fight ! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?
On 25 Jun 2008, at 08:46, Barnett, Phillip wrote: Weirdly, on the way back, after disembarking at Stansted, and before customs/passport control, an officious looking woman was inspecting _boarding_ cards. She was backed up by half a dozen serious looking men, so she meant business. I have no idea what that was about, but luckily I'd kept mine. It's not beyond possibility that I'd have thrown mine away at some point, as I'd never thought I'd have to produce one AFTER a flight. Any ideas? They were looking for illegal immigrants and specific individuals. I've had that a few times landing with EZ flights and the cabin crew warned us before leaving the aircraft. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] State of the Map 2008: Mission Accomplished
A very big thanks to all who attended and made it a wonderful event. Thanks to the volunteer organisers who did all the dredge work and sat around behind cameras all day, ordered t-shirts and all the rest: AndyR, Gareth, Christian, NickB, Etienne, Mike Collinson and, er, me. I think despite it being volunteer run, and only our second conference it was overall more professional than many professional conferences. The quality of talks and conversation was just brilliant. Thanks to our sponsors also for without them, no BBQ or low, low price of entry: CloudMade, ITO!, AND, geocommons, multimap, nestoria and mapufacture. Please post your feedback http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/State_Of_The_Map_2008/Feedback and reports http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/SOTM_08_Reports and personally, I'd like to see more photos on flickr or wherever. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Welsh residential mapping weekend
A few people have mentioned that they want to go to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Welsh_Mapping_Party_Weekend (cottage, Wales, 12-15 Sept) but that it's booked out. I did all the work for that cottage, I strongly suggest someone sets up another nearby or something and looks for people on this list who want to go. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] poster things
anyone have any photos with those poster stand things that were at SOTM that looked like they were for conference booths? there was one to the right of the projector screen the whole time Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] suggestion for SOTM09
On 15 Jul 2008, at 08:08, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Daniel Glassey wrote: fwiw location-wise I would prefer somewhere more easily and cheaply accessible by most people that would like to come than I expect GC would be. Being a bit of a tree-hugger at heart, I'd prefer somewhere in mainland Europe easily accessible by train. ...so you can skip it again? :-P cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM maps in 3D
On 18 Jul 2008, at 08:13, Igor Brejc wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Very nice but it needs DirectX. I cut my map programming teeth on a viewer for British OS maps which uses Java 3D (http://britain.poco.org.uk/desktop.html ). I can’t share it because of copyright restrictions on the maps, but the principle would apply to any map source including OSM. Why not use Java instead of Microsoft stuff then it would run on anything. There’s an awful lot of us using Linux or Macs - anything but Windows!. I like the idea of Kosmos but - MS .net!! elvin Guys, I understand what you're saying and in general I agree, it's better to use an open and portable technology than a closed-source like MS. But I live in a real world, my programming skills are in C# and MS.NET (mostly because I also I too live in a real world, but don't go down to their level by patronising us with phrases like that. Just ignore them and keep hacking. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] suggestion for SOTM09
On 18 Jul 2008, at 17:14, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, (RichardF) Being a bit of a tree-hugger at heart, I'd prefer somewhere in mainland Europe easily accessible by train. (SteveC) ...so you can skip it again? :-P There were a number of people absent at this year's SOTM who are quite active and/or important to the project - JonB wasn't there, Blackadder wasn't there, Artem wasn't there, Jordan Hatcher cancelled, Martijn van O wasn't there, neither was Franciso Santos, there was nobody from the Merkaartor team and none of the many folks who are very busy in Eastern Europe. (E.O.E.) I'm sure every one of them have had their valid reasons for not coming, and I don't see why RichardF's absence in particular should be something to discuss on the mailing list? Well if you're going to be all thing about it, because he's encouraging us to pick a venue based on it being in Europe an trainable, like, er, this year, which he didnt' make. But I did put a smiley face on there, did you miss it? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Numerology
We surpassed 50,000 accounts. Here's to the next 50,000. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenMoonMap
This beacon system will use radio frequency, microwave, ultrasonic or visible light sources to transmit the relative positioning between any object and known active surface beacon reference points. Good luck using ultrasonic on the moon. On 28 Jul 2008, at 04:33, Nick Black wrote: Spotted this this-morning. http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2008/07/28/lasois Get ready for the scramble for domain registration... -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] creation of a new list for Peru
Tom please do the honours... On 30 Jul 2008, at 11:25, Patrick Aljord wrote: Hi all, I would like to create a talk-pe list for Peru. I don't know who to contact so I'm asking here. Thanks in advance, Pat ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM quality in the UK - academic paper
I'm still reading... http://povesham.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/osm-quality-evaluation/ Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] osm in flickr
http://www.flickr.com/map?fLat=39.912fLon=116.3783zl=4order_by=interestingness Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm in flickr
Guys I've been in contact with them throughout to help this happen, I guess that wasn't clear. I had planned a blog post but have been on a plane from when they posted up until now. On 13 Aug 2008, at 04:30, J.D. Schmidt wrote: Iván Sánchez Ortega skrev: El Lunes, 11 de Agosto de 2008, SteveC escribió: http://www.flickr.com/map?fLat=39.912fLon=116.3783zl=4order_by=interest ingness A friend of mine (thanks, rinzewind!) points me to this entry in the flickr's developers blog: http://blog.flickr.net/en/2008/08/12/around-the-world-and-back-again/ Cheers, Good find ! Now someone just needs to get in touch with them, and suggest that they use OSM data for IoM and Cyprus among other places. And then get that pressrelease out about it, in cooperation with the Flickr dudes, to the oldstyle media. The more innovative ways OSM data is used, and the more that is is publized and evangilized through both oldstyle and newstyle (read Web based non-deadtree) media, the better. Just my 0.01 sqkm worth... Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Local list contacts
Dear all The various mailing lists have grown well organically and there are great contributions, debate and discussion on them. In order to more efficiently and clearly trickle down announcements like server downtime to the local lists, we've created a 'list of lists' for people to help take announcements and translate them to the local lists. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts If you would like to help by being the local contact for a list (which doesn't necessarily have to be the same person as the list maintainer, but could be) then please sign up. You will help by taking any announcement sent there and sending it on, maybe translating it too, to your local list. This includes English-speaking lists like talk-au, talk-us, talk-gb-midlands Please sign up here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Local_Contacts and for bonus points help clean up that page. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: [ppgis] Invitation for expressions of interest for Ordnance Survey Think Tank Session on Crowd source data capture, geospatial mashups and its impact on NMAs - 13th July 2009 (Tue
On 7 May 2009, at 08:42, Mikel Maron wrote: Selection of invited experts will be made by the Ordnance Survey. Guess they won't be having people from OSM then :-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local list contacts
Thanks for the great response so far, but it doesn't cover all countries. Please ping your friends if you know people who could do lists that are not covered yet: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Local_Contacts Also, it would be great if anyone has time to help me manage this process. Please ping me if you can help. On 11 May 2009, at 10:54, SteveC wrote: Dear all The various mailing lists have grown well organically and there are great contributions, debate and discussion on them. In order to more efficiently and clearly trickle down announcements like server downtime to the local lists, we've created a 'list of lists' for people to help take announcements and translate them to the local lists. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts If you would like to help by being the local contact for a list (which doesn't necessarily have to be the same person as the list maintainer, but could be) then please sign up. You will help by taking any announcement sent there and sending it on, maybe translating it too, to your local list. This includes English-speaking lists like talk-au, talk-us, talk-gb-midlands Please sign up here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Local_Contacts and for bonus points help clean up that page. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Data Import Support Working Group
All The foundation today discussed the perceived need for a working group to help people import data. We know there are highly talented individuals out there who are able to find data to import, have the social skills and time to get data holders to release it to OSM, have the legal knowledge to see if it's ok to import and have the technical skills to do the actual importing. They are doing amazing work. However there are those that can do only a portion of this. Thus we would like to help the people finding the data meet the people who can import it, and them feel they have backing. We are not looking to stomp on existing imports. We wish to help with the large number of datasets out there without a champion who has all the skills needed to get it imported. There is a lot of data out there! We will prioritise it and help get it imported. So, are you someone who knows about some datasets? Are you able to do the importing? Do you have a little time each week to help guide the process and talk to people who might have data? Then please get in touch to help start this group. We will meet approximately every week or two for an hour long phone call. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-talk-ie] open street map - what's in it for you?
On 2 May 2009, at 14:10, Johnny Rose Carlsen wrote: Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: drove into a new housing estate ... yes but, what's in it for you? Why does a painter paint? Why play football? Why give money to charity? Why volunteer to work with stroppy youths? (actually yeah, why?) Why walk up a mountain? The short answers to these questions are : Sex, sex, sex, sex, dunno and sex. Sex is also my reason #1 for doing OSM. skip to 02:35 or so in this from a couple of years ago: http://tinyurl.com/qwbt2c ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Isle of Wight 2
Remember how awesome the wales mapping weekend was last year? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welsh_Mapping_Party_Weekend Remember the Isle of Wight mapping weekend 3 years ago? It was super awesome, we had 30 odd people, local TV, press and stuff http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight_workshop_2006 How about a weekend again and rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight? This time concentrating on maintenance of the map, detecting new changes and augmenting it with more PoIs and things like addressing? I can organise it all if there is a show of hands for people who'd come. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Isle of Wight 2
I'm tempted, but half the point is that we need to stop thinking that the IoW is mapped, without addresses or turn restrictions there's a long way to go. On 1 Jun 2009, at 10:53, Steve Chilton wrote: Steve I would be very interested. Would you consider pitching at somewhere less mapped. Parts of Devon/Cornwall spring to mind. Cheers STEVEs -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of SteveC Sent: 30 May 2009 15:54 To: Talk GB; Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [Talk-GB] Isle of Wight 2 Remember how awesome the wales mapping weekend was last year? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welsh_Mapping_Party_Weekend Remember the Isle of Wight mapping weekend 3 years ago? It was super awesome, we had 30 odd people, local TV, press and stuff http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight_workshop_2006 How about a weekend again and rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight? This time concentrating on maintenance of the map, detecting new changes and augmenting it with more PoIs and things like addressing? I can organise it all if there is a show of hands for people who'd come. Best Steve ___ Talk-GB mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OGC Geospatial Rights Management Summit
On 9 Jun 2009, at 06:27, John Wilbanks wrote: Puneet Kishor, who is a Science Commons Fellow looking at geospatial data and climate change, will be attending and hoisting the facts can't be copyrighted flag. Er, sounds like a red herring to me since they can have database rights and be licensed who cares about the copyright for the purposes of some ridiculous DRM schema that the big licensers will use? Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Traffic lights
So there are bits and pieces on traffic lights on the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Traffic_Lights http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtraffic_signals http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Set_of_Traffic_Signals but seems to have gone quiet especially on the question of modelling traffic lights across big junctions. I'm interested because all the lights near me span 4 or more intersecting ways. I'm in the relation camp on how we should model that rather than the way joining it all up with amenity:traffic_signals on it. Anyone interested in taking charge? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 16 Jun 2009, at 05:55, Simone Cortesi wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/three.jpg I don't find that too bad actually. But it has no map on the first page. I vehemently stated that we're about data, not about slippy maps, in the talk-de discussion; however we also need to show off. I tend to agree with Frederik: no prominent map, we are about data, geodata, map is just one of the byproducts. Yes but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater in removing the map. We should have the basics to show people what it is we do up front and allow them to explore and edit. I like the bubble ideas much more. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] minor stats
Isn't that skewed by what the import process to 0.6 defined as a changeset? On 16 Jun 2009, at 07:24, Simone Cortesi wrote: hi, just a minor stats: it took us 4 years: from april 2005 to go from changeset 1 to 1.000.000 in april 2009. We are now, after only 2 months, already at changeset 1.500.000 who... -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 16 Jun 2009, at 11:38, Tim Waters (chippy) wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I thought that the IP 2 geo stuff was in there to make it default to the country it thinks you're in? What are people's thoughts about the default zoom? I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. At present the website does not have a remember me / persistent login - so that a user has to view the UK area on the map first, as a logged out user, before manually logging in, and thereby possibly seeing the map change. Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? How about using cookies for non-logged in users? How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn? (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
On 16 Jun 2009, at 14:15, Stefan de Konink wrote: SteveC wrote: On 16 Jun 2009, at 09:51, Stefan de Konink wrote: Eric Pritchett wrote: I'm sure there are more advantages, There is; there is no trade mark on the name :) There isn't on openstreetmap either. Ok, the first time they refused it: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2500154 But since you tried again in two categories... http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ohim?ohimnum=E7366859 I think you should add 'yet'. Wrong again. The ™ was applied for the logo and the name in the UK and Europe and the Foundation owns the whole problem, not me. Passive aggressiveness works much better when you're also correct :-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
On 16 Jun 2009, at 14:27, Stefan de Konink wrote: SteveC wrote: Wrong again. The ™ was applied for the logo and the name So 'mark' means to me 'name' so OpenStreetMap was protected if it was granted, yes? If, yes. in the UK and Europe and the Foundation owns the whole problem, not me. I thought you did 'something' in the foundation too ;) Yeah, but now the OSMF is liable, not me. Passive aggressiveness works much better when you're also correct :-) In your country it seems that companies can apply, and not persons on their private home addresses ;) KT13 9DP != CR5 3QZ Next I'm going to wake up in the morning and you'll be outside my house, stalking me :-O Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] full history of a way?
On 14 Jun 2009, at 01:49, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, There are no full history dumps currently - having such dump would enable this type of query quite easily. I am sure we will have them at some point in time. Well, there could be slight problem with pre-0.6 data (no order in relations) and pre-0.5 (extra segment elements in addition to nodes and ways) Way history was completely dropped on the 0.4 to 0.5 changeover so you will not be able to access any way data before that. so this maybe need some conversions. I am not sure what was before 0.4 (could be some problems too...) The 0.3 to 0.4 changeover did not, to my knowledge, drop any data. And before 0.3 OSM was so small that whatever was there at the time can safely be ignored ;-) I look forward to API 0.9 where we can say And before 0.6 OSM was so small that whatever was there at the time can safely be ignored ;-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SOTM 08 videos
Hi Linked off of stateofthemap.org are the SOTM '08 videos: http://blog.signal2noise.ie/~eason/sotm08/ But they're incomplete and super, super, super slow to load. So does anyone know if the rest will be put up? And, can anyone mirror them somewhere useful? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
I've been thinking a bit about how bugs work in OSM. I really like the way OSB works http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/ But it's closed source afaik and doesn't have an API. It uses human input. new OSB is cool and tries to fix some of this http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Emka/new_OSB I like keepright http://keepright.ipax.at/ But it's more automated. Here's my vision for how bugs should work. You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/ There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that are relevant to you - human entered stuff say. There is an intermediate mode which shows a slide which, when slid, shows more bugs. So at the low end human entered stuff, but at the high you get every single fixme from OSM. Then there is expert mode which looks like keepright, and you can click various things on and off. How do you enter bugs? There are two ways. As a human on bugs.osm.. www.openstreetmap.org you can click a little green plus like OSB has on the map, or potlatch will let you do it too. But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of bugs. We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose more of the bugs. To give you an example there are tons of bugs in the US, but there is no systematic way to fix them, or even begin fixing them. There are some good HOWTOs on the wiki on the actual individual details of how to fix a bridge connected to the road beneath it, but no big list of such bridges or where they are. We need to make this systematic. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup/Over_Connectedness Why is my system better than OSB or keepright? OSB with a simple API might fly, but it's not open and not quite part of OSM. Keepright kind of gets there but the barrier to entry is high. If I want to do an import and list bugs to check, or I want to write my own little maplint utility to check for X or Y or Z I have to learn whatever language keepright is in and start hacking against a large codebase. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would offer a really simple REST api to throw bugs at. I envisage it as a sort of clearing house for bugs. It will quickly become very useful for lots of people writing small, loosly-joined tools. The barrier to me writing a small bug app is low. I imagine all sorts of little apps writing things to submit bugs much as keepright or maplint sort of do now. All they have to do, is run a script to report the bugs from planet every week (or whatever) and keep track of the bug IDs and see if they're closed yet. Now on the output side I think there is a huge amount of potential. Right now people don't know where to start fixing things. You can point people at OSB but that is human only, or you could point them at keepright or maplint but then you have to fight to maintain those things. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would be a central clearing house which everyone can submit to and use. To go back to that example, if someone writes a script to find all freeways in the USA which connect at right angles to residential roads and submits them through the api to bugs.openstreetmap.org then you have a big dataset. It becomes super fun, cool and easy to motivate the community and say - hey lets fix all those bugs in the US. You can draw graphs of the number of bugs being eaten up, show progress, make a leaderboard... all the things that will motivate a *lot* of people to fix these things. It will be so cool to be able to have many people working on closing bugs, I'd make it my number one slide in every talk I go to, saying go to bugs.openstreetmap.org and enter or fix a bug maybe I should already with OSB. Now, you can of course just write a standalone app to do that freeways in the US a bit like keepright is a standalone app, but having it work for that, then someone else enters all the bugs in Spain that they're interested in, someone else when they import the next GNIS or something, adds bugs against all the imported PoIs that they need to be checked, other people can just enter bugs they see it becomes a very powerful system. All it needs is a little REST api. And what's doubly great is that it's basically a weekend, if that, project to get started and do the simplest pieces. Then we can iterate it from there. Thoughts? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
On 1 Jul 2009, at 19:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, SteveC wrote: But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of bugs. We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose more of the bugs. I believe that the types of bugs one can look for are quite different. You'd have to build a very good system if it is to be able to capture all kinds of bugs - don't think that simply having something like lat/lon/text is enough, because some bugs might be relevant for a whole area, or you might have a two nearby streets share the same name bug which points to two ways rather than one location, etc etc How about we borrow tags from OSM? Bugs have lat,lng,text and keyvals? What you think? They main thing I want to say though - is lets just build something simple and iterate. Absolutle minimum feature set is a RESTful API plus a OSB-like interface. Not saying it can't be done but if you want to replace the various bug systems then you need to be able to do what they can do or it is a step backwards. I'm also wary of the centralistic let's set up a database and have everyone upload their data to us approach. Maybe keeping true to your clearinghouse idea the central service should *only* know that there is some other service that has found a bug in a certain location, and when the user wants to know more, the other service is interrogated through an API. The other service might, for example, guide the user through an automatic fixing process for certain types of bugs, or offer things like find similar bugs in the vicinity or so. Plus, every coder could contribute to something like that in the language(s) he prefers, and without having to ask for his functionality to be included in some central service. Yeah so if you want it to just also aggregate things like keepright or OSB, it's easy to write things to do that, so long as they have APIs. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
On 1 Jul 2009, at 21:15, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Nic Roets wrote: And if the user indicates that he just wants to add a PoI, redirect him to http://ae.osmsurround.org/ so that he can add it directly to the database. That's the point I was trying to make - do not hog all the bugs in one central place and allow users to do only what you have coded; instead open this up so that anybody can hook their app into the user interface to offer functionality. Yeah - that's what a trivial API would do I think. an OSB-like interface would be one way, JOSM could talk to the API too, so could potlatch (no Richard, no special weird binary protocols)... and so on. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
On 2 Jul 2009, at 11:19, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: That's the point I was trying to make - do not hog all the bugs in one central place and allow users to do only what you have coded; instead open this up so that anybody can hook their app into the user interface to offer functionality. I'd kind of taken that as read - if you're going to have a REST API for it, then of course there's going to be read as well as write operations. Just as with the rest of OSM. If Steve's intention is to set up something without any user interface, just a clearinghouse for machines to dump their data and other machines to access them, then you are right. If the plan is to create something that actually interfaces with humans who want to check their area for bugs, then what you would need is something where an application can not only upload the bug to the clearinghouse but also say something like: And please if someone views that bug, offer them the following link that leads back to my application so the user can use my cool functionality which I have implemented in MUMPS for assisted bug fixing, or even click that link to be directed to the application which created this bug to read more about it. That could just be a tag that we agree on? application=mumps url=mumps.blah.com/bug/3737347373 or something? Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Second Grand State Of the Map Poetry Competition!!
On 1 Jul 2009, at 17:48, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Miércoles, 1 de Julio de 2009, Mike Collinson escribió: Last year we had some great Limerick poems for the Limerick State Of the Map Conference. This year, the format is the Haiku. Maps maps maps maps maps maps maps! Ivan This is a derivative work, clearly, of my efforts last year. I have openly licensed this on the OSM wiki as CC-BY-SA 2.0 however, you have not provided attribution. I would appreciate this. :-P Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Second Grand State Of the Map Poetry Competition!!
On 3 Jul 2009, at 11:27, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Viernes, 3 de Julio de 2009, SteveC escribió: This is a derivative work, clearly, of my efforts last year. I have openly licensed this on the OSM wiki as CC-BY-SA 2.0 however, you have not provided attribution. I would appreciate this. It is not a derivative work, as my haiku does not build upon your limerick. It is merely inspired by it and thus a new, original work. Ivan As you can clearly see, Exhibit 1 Original Work Maps maps map map maps Maps maps map map maps map map map maps map map map maps Maps maps map map maps http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2008/LimerickPoemCompetition is a direct parent of Exhibit 2 Cheap Infringement Maps maps maps maps maps maps maps! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2009/Poetry_Competition#SOTM_2009_Amsterdam_haiku_Poem_Page You have merely taken the first 7 words of Original Work and subtly rearranged them in to you Cheap Infringement. I'm sure we can agree on this point. I'm sure you agree that for the coherence and betterment of the community that for you to merely acknowledge derivation would achieve a satisfactory result, as set out in the terms and conditions of the CC-BY-SA 2.0 license. You must now cease and desist your baseless claims on originality and agree to pay me 1 Beer[1] in exchange for a global non-exclusive copyright license to derive from the Original Work. [1] - Beer type, amount, place and time to be decided by author of Original Work I will, however, agree to loudly discuss the issue with the OSMF licensing working group next week in front of some beers. Your offer has been taken in to account as above. :-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Second Grand State Of the Map Poetry Competition!!
On 3 Jul 2009, at 18:14, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Viernes, 3 de Julio de 2009, SteveC escribió: As you can clearly see, Exhibit 1 Original Work Maps maps map map maps Maps maps map map maps map map map maps map map map maps Maps maps map map maps is a direct parent of Exhibit 2 Cheap Infringement Maps maps maps maps maps maps maps! You have merely taken the first 7 words of Original Work and subtly rearranged them in to you Cheap Infringement. I'm sure we can agree on this point. You obviously cannot appreciate that the artistic effort of deconstructing the paradigmatical essence of the rhyme and its ulterior arrangement into a more subtle poetical vector challenges and reflects the contradicting hegemony of the nature of digital map ownership for the casual reader. I also find insulting that you consider my work to be a cheap copy of yours, and I therefore demand prompt payment of 1 (one) beer* in concept of moral damages in order to settle the issue. * - Beer type, amount, place and time to be decided by author of Original Work Don't you mean 'author of Cheap Copy' ? :-) Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM: Amsterdam Friday Evening
for thurs see http://www.stateofthemap.org/2009/07/06/pre-conference-drinks-nieuwmarkt/ for fri I have suggested similar to the group On 6 Jul 2009, at 17:07, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Hello everyone, I'm arriving (all being well!) in Amsterdam Friday evening at either 17:03 or 18:03, depending on train connections from London. Are there any plans for any people / groups to look round the city on Friday evening? My hotel is fairly central I think so should be ready by 18:00 or 19:00, all being well. Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License for OSM logo
On 7 Jul 2009, at 12:56, Richard Weait wrote: On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 03:01 -0400, Russ Nelson wrote: On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:53 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: The logo is also now trademarked. I'll raise this (and have also copied to Matt) as currently we don't have a policy on reuse of the logo. You'll need permission from Steve Coast first, as he is still listed as the Proprietor by the Intellectual Property Office. http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-find-number?detailsrequested=Ctrademark=2500155 A Canadian trade mark lawyer was surprised that the transfer from Steve Coast to the OpenStreetMap Foundation would take more than a week or two. Has this transfer slipped due to oversight, incompetence, redefined goals or some sinister Satanic Portal[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2009-July/049514.html Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC; C = Cool
On 7 Jul 2009, at 23:26, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC wrote: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2009-July/ 049514.html I'm not going to apply on talk-de to tell you this: inventing nodes, ways, segments (remember them?) You *did not* invent the spaghetti model, please give credit to the original inventor Stan Aronoff, in Geographic information systems: A management perspective (1989). Well i never read it and they're kind of trivial. After the years of iterations don't you think it sucks that your simple easy REST-based model is now made so difficult in 0.6? Mozart had Salieri, I get you guys. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTvZQACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3CFACfdA210hgoYTcRNUWp+xEBGovp 76sAn1WDFEVDK4B7CvsZxNPvXVXz3j0s =liu2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC; C = Cool
On 8 Jul 2009, at 00:06, Stefan de Konink wrote: Still you live [that was an observation I made without sleeping in front of your door yesterday], and you have influence on the process :) So don't you consider it a waste it got more difficult? No Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM 5th Anniversary
All It's been nearly five whole years since I initially set OSM up. It makes me pause for thought, it's a long time in some ways. Not so much in others. localhost:~ steve$ whois openstreetmap.org | grep 2004 Created On:09-Aug-2004 18:47:25 UTC August 9th conveniently lands on a Sunday this year however it seems best all round to combine a anniversary party with the OSMF AGM on the 22nd[0]. This has already been alluded to on the anniversary wiki page[1]. So, please help organise an awesome bash following the AGM both in London and worldwide in your area by discussing here and on the wiki page. Personally, I'm hoping for map cakes. Nom. Yours c. Steve [0] - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09 [1] - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_5th_Anniversary_Birthday_party ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] My online presence
All Bar about two or three of my most ardent friends I am the strongest believer and defender of free speech and the free market I know. The former, I believe far beyond what exists in the United Kingdom and much of Europe. I came to this position after volunteering for organisations which campaigned on the interface between public policy and computers on issues like copyright, encryption and identity cards before OpenStreetMap was born. Thus what I say is tempered by a relatively deep understanding of the rights and issues surrounding things like fair dealing/use, right to privacy and so on. There is a blog and twitter account which attempts to mirror my thoughts and actions with witty insight. These represent at a guess two or three people who for the most part are quite funny if crude. A fake persona in the digital age. The recent departures in to my personal life amongst this commentary has moved beyond what I will reasonably deal with, and has begun to impact others which I don't feel is appropriate. This is sad. So I feel the need to reduce my online presence which I regret, in that the very point of the web is sharing information and I enjoy those services like flickr and dopplr which I will shortly curtail. It will certainly not totally stop any more personal comments to withdraw from these services any more than the RIAA suing twelve year olds will stop music piracy, but I will limit the scope of information available. This will give me some comfort. The quickest and simplest way to remove myself is to unfollow, unsubscribe and unfriend people en masse from these various services and begin again by admitting people carefully and with a consideration of privacy. If you're the victim of this then don't take it personally, just re-friend me or send me a note. This post will give me something to link to for explanation. In any case I salute parody but I must protect others from the fallout. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: documents on OpenStreetMap for iso/tc211 project 19154
Anyone able to help this guy? Yours c. Steve Begin forwarded message: From: Ki-Joune Li l...@pnu.edu Date: 10 August 2009 19:17:16 PDT To: 'SteveC' st...@asklater.com Subject: RE: documents on OpenStreetMap for iso/tc211 project 19154 Hi Steve, I'm very happy to get an e-mail from you. Thanks a lot for reply and the information. I believe that I can find some use-cases for our project. If you let me know someone to help me, it would be great. Many thanks, Ki-Joune -Original Message- From: SteveC [mailto:st...@asklater.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:21 AM To: Ki-Joune Li Subject: Re: documents on OpenStreetMap for iso/tc211 project 19154 Hi I lost a lot of data in a disk crash a few days ago and am not sure if I replied to this, but I'm sorry I don't have the time to put together the required materials. However, there is a lot on wiki.openstreetmap.org and I may be able to find someone to help if needed. Best Steve On 28 Jul 2009, at 00:14, Ki-Joune Li wrote: Dear Mr. Steeve Coast, First of all, thanks a lot for your efforts for OpenStreetMap. My name is Ki-Joune Li working at the department of computer science, Pusan National University in South Korea. Last year, a project under ISO/TC211 (TC for geographic information) has been launched to clarify the standardization requirements for UPA (Ubiquitous Public Access) of geographic information. It is project 19154 and I am serving as the project leader. We have discovered that one of key requirements for ubiquitous public access is public participation' during the entire lifecycle of geographic information including production, distribution, and sharing as well as simple consumption. From this viewpoint, we are planning to include a prospective use- case on OpenStreetMap in the review summary report, which will be the official document of our project of ISO/TC211. I'd greatly appreciate it if you would send me any materials like presentation slides or articles that can be useful to make the use-case. I believe that they will be very helpful to write our report. I attach two files, which may be helpful to understand our project. The first one is a draft of review summary submitted to TC for comments and the second one of presentation file about the project. Best Regards, Ki-Joune Li, Prof. Chair of the department Department of Computer Science and Engineering Pusan National University, South Korea http://isel.cs.pusan.ac.kr/~lik/likEng.html 19154-Draft-20090714.pdfUPA-20090525.pdf ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Legal-general] Attribution in static/printed maps
Looks good to me, seems to follow the guidelines. On 2 Jul 2009, at 11:13, Rajiv Aggarwal wrote: Hi all, I'm implementing a service/API similar to Google Static Maps API that uses OpenStreetMap data. This is part of a larger effort (www.cellguided.com ) to create store maps that are available offline. The attributions I've seen using OpenStreetMap are clickable links but here I have a static map that has no interactive element. I've attached a sample map with the attribution I'm planning on using. Is this appropriate? Also, is there shorter phrasing for cases where the requested map size is smaller? Thanks, Rajiv Aggarwal www.cellguided.com map320x400.png ___ Legal-general mailing list legal-gene...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-general Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Anyone from Hungary here?
Hi I have a contact who has a GIS mailing list in Hungary and they'd like someone to email them about OSM. Are there any locals that can help? Please mail me. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
On 15 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Richard Weait wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Nick, Nick Black wrote: I'm going to be standing for election to the OSM Foundation Board again this year. Do you and Steve have any comment on Richard Weait's suggestion that from every commercial organisation, at most one person should be a member of the OSMF board (http://weait.com/cloudmade-layoffs)? I'm very supportive of that, although not exactly out of fear that you might both be looking for a new job at the same time, but more along the lines of what RichardF said in the comments section on that page. This would mean that *either* your *or* SteveC should be on the board but not both of you. It is of course everyone's right to stand for election and let the voters decide if they support Richard's suggestion or not - but I would be interested in hearing your opinion. Nick followed up several times, but I can't see any answer to Frederik's direct question. I'd like to hear replies from each of the candidates on this. Should any single company be able to hold an unlimited number of seats on the Foundation board? A majority? All? I agree with others that the members should be the ones to decide. I don't think arbitrary rules will help much at this stage and I don't think it would ever get to the stage of being a majority or more anyway from any one organisation. There are eleven excellent candidates on the wiki, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09/Election_to_Board each qualified and suitable to hold a seat on the board. Each worthy of my vote. How does more than a single candidate from any company benefit the Foundation and the project? I'm not standing on a platform of 'I'm at CloudMade therefore vote for me' so really the company issue is a tertiary one. I think you should judge Nick and I on what we've done with our time helping OSM, which is very substantial, and not get hung up on this. The protections in OSM are very strong against anyone taking it over and I'm happy to make them stronger still. And as for the issue of Nick or I being let go from CloudMade... I can assure you I would still work just as hard on OSM. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] The most amazing video in the entire universe
http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=678 Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
